amplified buskers

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:43 AM

What a small world! Only yesterday I ordered a Fender amp can.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Alec
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:32 AM

I like that story Ruth.Indeed in many respects I think I prefer his lyrics.
Addressing the issue raised by this thread,though I can see why some Buskers would see some amplification as being a requirement on some occasions at some locations, I think the objective ought to be "as little as possible" with the optimum amount being considered as none.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:20 AM

We had a busker outside in the marketplace on market day the other week. He was on guitar, amplified, and we could hear him clear as day inside the foyer of the town hall.

It quickly became clear that English was not his first language, and I'm afraid that the amplification made his mangling of the lyrics even more evident.

The box office staff and I were nearly wetting ourselves, particularly as he crucified Dire Straits' Romeo and Juliet:

"SHOOOliet, nedise was olded frommesssart
Bummibet, an you essoded immiheart..."

Ooooh, but we were entertained! And at least it wasn't flippin' pan pipes...

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Muttley
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:01 AM

There was a busker here in Boronia (outer eastern Melbourne) who used to busk with guitar and amp. I have a feeling he thought of himself as a latter-day Carlos Santana the way he used to over-emphasise his sibilants: Trouble was, for someone who owned the quality of instrument and accoutrements - he was REALLY average and frequently out of tune with what he was playing. Didn't make a lot - and I make it a point NOT to give to a busker I can hear pretty clearly from 150 yards away.

He left after about 6 - 8 months. Another turned up even louder, made even less amd left even quicker.

I tend to agree with Alanabit - a busker who works hard does deserve what he or she receives in gratuity from listeners. However - Marion says . . . who works hard to do their jobs well . . . I'm not sure about "well" but at least the best they CAN do. As a disabled musician who cannot recall chord progressions due to head injury and occasional chording or strumming or timing obscenities due to the hands not listening to the brain on that day; I simply try my best.
I do advertise I have an ABI - but not to arouse sympathy - I do so because I also have a pile of pamphlets nearby explaining what ABI is and the fact that 10% of what I get goes to the Brain Foundation.

I work a bloody sight harder than a lot of buskers I've seen - and many of them without disabilities and a lot better than me. However - do i "deserve" what I'm paid ........ DON'T KNOW. Am I appreciative of what I receive? Abso-bloody-lutely.

And one thing that makes my entertaining SO much harder is some bastard 50 yards away who can be heard more clearly than ME by people watching/passing ME!

Muttley

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 11:48 PM

As one who has busked, I can say without reservation that those who choose to use amplification have a direct, negative impact on the earnings of every other busker within earshot.
Whether it's the right or wrong thing to do is entirely up to yourselves but make no mistake, someone else's job just got a little tougher.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 11:13 PM

Gawd but he is a little bit LOUD isnt he ?

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Jim Lad
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 10:07 PM

In the words of the now famous "Hawkeye Pearse" from M*A*S*H ......."Thank You Frank!"

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: GUEST,frank
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:53 PM

I PLAY WITH AMPLIFICATION AND BACKINGS THAT I HAVE RECORD MYSELF .I HAVE STUDY MUSIC FOR YEARS. I PLAY IN MANY PLACES IN THE WORLD .I HELP TO CHARITIES .I HELP POOR PEAPLE.I HAVE INVEST TIME,MONEY,SACRIFY A LOT, NOW I AM TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING LIKE ANYBODY ELSE,PAY MY BILLS AND HAVE A NORMAL LIFE DOING WHAT I LIKE TO DO WITH OUT HURTING ANYBODY ELSE.
NOW, I GET LOTS JEALOUS PEAPLE TELLING ME NO TO PLAY WITH BACKINGS O APLIFICATION ,WENT FOR ME,WAS SO HARD TO GET TO WHERE I AM NOW. I THINK THOSE PEAPLE SHOULD FINE A DIFERENT JOB,IF THEY CAN NOT HADLE SEEING OTHER PEAPLE PROGRESS IN LIFE AND BY THE WAY I AM NOT PLAY LOUD I JUST PLAY ENOUGH LEVEL FOR PEAPLE TO APRICIATE MUSIC AND NOT NOISE. PEACE AND LOVE

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Strick
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 05:16 PM

So long as any amplification, a recording or most especially a computer generated "band-in-a-box" seems appropriate and complements what's being played rather than detracting from it, I'm OK with it. Read that to mean I should "hear" the music and not notice anything else.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 07:52 AM

I'm with you Larry. Ages ago a group of us amateurs did an on-street singing hour to advertise a musical we were performing at a nearby theatre. Although we didn't put down a hat, people insisted on dropping coins. We gave the take to the nearest "Sally Ann"

A little gentle amping for your guitar is OK, but backing tracks? Sheesh! :(

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: GUEST,Apache
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 07:50 AM

In Chester there are many Buskers, a few are amplified, Andy Martin, which I'm sure a couple of you know is one of them and so is Ed Alleyne Johnson, if you don't know Ed Alleyne, he used to be in the band New Model Army, a folk rock band that used violin instead of lead guitar in their songs, he performs full accompaniments and concertos on just one violin with the aid of footpedals to change the style of the strings and to record and playback playloops which he then plays over, it's amazing to watch and totally captulating to listen to, if you don't like Amplified Busking may I offer you to come to Chester and listen to Ed Alleyne Johnson, you may change you perpective after listening to him.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 07:40 AM

Dear Chris:
How much do you expect Madona makes for a gig, and what is the cost of her kit. Fact is, when you have spent a full day playing until your fingers are swollen, because it is your job, folks like it, you have trained for thrity years to do your job, folk music has FEW venues in your town, and all the other reasons we still bring music directly to the people, you will understand Alan and my iratation at the concept that you give to musicians in need. We aren't needy, we are artisits in a tradition as old as coins and the spoken word. We are the origional theater, the trubador tradition, not bums with an act.
All the best
Larry
PS it is not the gear, it is what you do with it. I'd give to a guy with a rubber band making good music as fast as a guy with a strad or a ruddle and rose, when the music is good.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 04:59 AM

I see no reason why buskers that play a lead instrument shouldn't use a rhythm tape.

Clause 1. The total sound must be non intrusive.

Clause 2. The tape or whatever must be of a *live* instrument, preferably recorded previously by the aforementioned busker.

You should try to busk against the pan pipe brigade in Glasgow,
they have generators and a monstrous pa system. Most annoying.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Ely
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 02:35 PM

I admit I've done a *tiny* bit of amplified busking--like twice--but I play the lap dulcimer and if I didn't, I wouldn't even be able to hear myself. Unless you're playing a solo mandolin (dulcimer, autoharp, other fairly quiet instrument), if it's so loud you need an amp, the chances are good that nobody is listening to you, anyway.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 12:37 PM

Its the sheer volume that gets me. Okay if they have them turned just above accoustic level but so many of them are so loud as to be offensive. I also hate to hear backing tracks going, to me its cheeting.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Blues=Life
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 08:34 AM

Two thoughts here.
1. Being loud is not necessarily a good thing. If I can hear you from across the park, why should I walk over near you to drop money in your case? I once saw a trumpet player on the wall by the Mississippi river in New Orleans, playing with a mute. I could tell he was good, but I could barely hear him. Got my cafe au lait to go an walked over near him to listen. Gee, what a suprise, when he was finished, there was a nice little crowd surrounding him when he made his polite pitch for donations. He cleaned up.
2. Walking from O'Hare Airport to the Elevated station, heard great electric blues. The busker was sitting right in a bottlenecked portion of the hallway, you had to pass him. I got to hear him (over all the ambient noise) for a pretty good distance, even though I didn't have time to stop. He was good, and I kicked in.
I guess the point is you got to think about it, and be appropriate.
Blues

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 11:08 PM

I'm of two minds on this question. Perhaps my perspective as a long-retired participant explains my ambivalence:

I would have *hated* to complete with amplified acts back when I was singing unamplified on the street; it was hard enough having to go up against 4- 5- and 6-piece bands! Performing on my own and working with minimal equipment was simply my modus operandi back then, and I felt I needed a certain amount of space, and a degree of quiet, to function. Would I have I gone the amplified route if I could have? Probably not: I certainly could not have afforded the extra equipment, nor would I have been eager to carry it around with me. (Well, poor-mouthing may not an entirely valid response; while I never owned an electric guitar, and would always have found it difficult to buy an instrument with an amp and everything that goes with it, my one unamplifed guitar has always been a good-quality and fairly expensive instrument.)

On the other hand, I am glad to hear, and generally admire, some of today's buskers who do a good job with modest amplification. There are a few guys who seem to pass in and out of town, doing a nice job with electric-style blues; without their little battery-driven amps, they not only couldn't be heard, they couldn't even approximate the *sound* they're working to produce. Also, with amplification, instrumental blues guitar can stand on its own without vocals much more easily than can the acoustic variety, and some of these players do little or no singing. (In some cases, the less singing, the better!)

One interesting variation I've encountered: a fellow I saw several times a couple of years ago, singing Sam Cooke tunes (seemingly) a-capella, and doing a very nice job of it. After catching his act several times on successive weekends, I realized he was doing the same tunes in the same order -- on closer inspection, I observed that he was singing along to a "Greatest Hits" cassette through his Walkman headset!

The worst offenders are those with loud gasoline-powered generators: they have to turn up "to eleven" just to overcome the noicse of their own equipment!

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 05:30 PM

They've just allowed licensed buskers on the London Underground, in selected 'pitches' along the system. These are situated in corners where the accoustics are good and the obstruction minimal. I have a vague notion that amplification is not allowed.

I once saw a woman busking violin to a backing track... she sounded fantastic, very professional, until someone accidentally (possibly deliberately?) kicked her CD player and she stopped playing... trouble is, the violin didn't stop... she was miming to a recording, not playing at all...

I'm for unamplified, and I'm also for keeping to the pitch - I loathe being pursued down a tube train by the Mad Accordionist of the District line (Kew to South Ken stretch) or the Frantic Fiddler of Sth Ruislip to Notting Hill...

LTS

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Marion
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 04:58 PM

Yes, Chris B., Alanabit deserves to be paid for his work, just like anybody else who works hard to do their jobs well.

I have no doubt that some people who give tips to buskers are motivated by charity rather than music appreciation - and certainly there are some people playing instruments on the streets who are deliberately appealing to charity rather than music appreciation. But what sets a real busker apart from a panhandler with a good prop is that his or her "selling point" is the entertainment value of the performance; and in an ideal world, the person giving a tip isn't trying to help the poor but rather to say "Thanks for the music, come again another day."

Marion

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 03:57 PM

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 03:56 PM

If I pull a crowd of a hundred people, entertain them for an hour while they sing, laugh and applaud - YES - I BLOODY WELL DESERVE IT! If you don't believe it happens, come down to Linz Festival and check it out on the third week of July. By the way, other buskers whom I have seen who DESERVED their money included all the ones I mentioned above in addition to Pete Morton and Kieren Goss.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 02:44 PM

Alanabit,

I don't give buskers money on the grounds that they need it. So you 'deserve' it, do you? I'll have to try that one myself.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 02:13 PM

I think you are dead right. All the real quality acts I have seen - Glynn NIcholas, Phil Free, Don Partridge, Mark'n Simon - all worked softly. (They could also pull huge crowds).

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Francy
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 02:10 PM

I have busked for years with my guiitar and voice and have never seen any need for amplification,,,,,I agree that people should be considerate with the volume, but it never works that way.....My simple philosophy is sing or play the music that you really love and do it as well as you can and the people will come to you...If not...oh well try something else....Frank of Toledo

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 01:24 PM

My problem isn't with people making themselves audible, it is with those bastards who abuse amplification to make sure that other buskers can't work. The Kelly Family used to do that in Germany. When busking gets reduced to the level of every ass trying to bray the loudest, no one will be interested in listening to us. The other problem is that an increasing number of towns will be closed to buskers.
I should also point out to Chris B that I never ask for money when busking on the basis that I need it. I ask for money on the basis that I am entertaining people and deserve it.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 12:49 PM

If you can afford the gear you don't need my money.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Merritt
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 12:38 PM

I've only "busked" a couple of times, but as a performing "bare-fingers" picker with a soft voice, I've found amplification with its many trade-offs to be a real resource. I can be heard AND I don't strain my voice or wear my fingers out trying to project.

- Merritt


"It's all one big note." - F. Zappa

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: C-flat
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 12:17 PM

On Saturday in Leeds I stopped to listen to a busker playing classical music on a battered old guitar through a small amplifier which he was sitting on. He wasn't over-loud compared to any of the other buskers around and I suspect he would have been drowned out by the street noise of a busy city centre.
I think it's a case of using common sense and showing a little respect to others, when using amplification in public areas.
The demonstrators protesting about the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, while entitled to voice their opinion, were rather heavy handed in their use of a megaphone to make their point.
It would have been quite impossible to busk anywhere near them with or without an amp.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Pied Piper
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 11:20 AM

I busk with Highland Pipes so I don't have a problem with amplified people.
I have a large circuit of localities to play and do not play more than once a month in most places.
If I get asked to move then I do, with a smile.

All the best PP

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: GUEST,Frankham
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 10:51 AM

Taste is about knowing the effect of your music on others. It's a form of manners. Being a tasteful musician is being a thoughtful musician. There are those who know how to control the volume of their electronic instruments. To ban them outright is to impose an unecessary sanction on musical expression. I agree, however, if the amplitude is excessive, it is no longer tasteful.

Frank

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 07:03 AM

Hi Folks...
Times change and traditions adapt. I agree that over amplification is a major wrong for a busker, as you need that imidiacy between your audience and you, however. folks today are spoiled by complex recordigns and the sesame street youth, there is little simple magic to a generation that grew up with computers. So, where as I can get by playing the pipes unaccompanied in the park, many jadded 20 something kids don't get it... by adding a small amount of amplification, not louder than the unaided pipes, I can use a looping device to add whistle and bodhran, guitar and flute, with live multi tracking not pre recorded backgrounds. As a result, I can do songs on my CDs as if the band was there, and more importantly, I can make enough to pay my bills, which is a great deal about what busking is about... yes some of us do it to make ends meet in this totalitarian capitalist world.
I appreciate the sense of purity, and espcially near to houses or shops, I only use the amp in the parks, and from the delight of the audiences, well, as I said , it pays the bills.
A nice story... I was practicing in a park, generally populated by folks who can't afford roofs over their heads. For those who know my song, Bivoauc of the forgotten, the guys mentioned in the song were there. A few folks passing through stopped and dropped a few bucks in the case, but the guys thought the concert was all for them. They all went into a huddle as I packed up, oh about ten of the poorest guys I know, and pooled their coins to put something in the case. Bless em.
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 07:35 PM

All depends how it's done and how loud. An unamplified mandolin doesn't have much volume, especially if its being played on individual courses of strings rather than just strumming. But of course it can be too loud, and typically it seems it's the worst musicians who tend to make the loudest noises.

Playing along with backing tapes is another issue; it's an abomination, I think, and I'll never give a penny to a busker who does that.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: Felipa
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 04:55 PM

amplified busking is a pet peeve of mine too
it's not purely a matter of taste; note the arguments that because sound carries too far these buskers are imposing on the public, the shopkeepers and other buskers who can't play anywhere near them

and arguably unfair competition with buskers who can't afford the amplification or are travelling and can't carry so much

I don't enjoy the busking on Grafton St Dublin anymore - just one or two acts on the street, all amplified

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 04:50 PM

Amplification has a lot to do with taste. It depends upon how loud you find it necessary to play. I believe that a tasteful electric instrument with modest volume can be pleasing in the great outdoors.

Frank

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: RolyH
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 04:36 PM

I was in Sutton, Surrey (UK) this morning where one busker managed to make himself sound like Pink Floyd. He had so many backing tapes playing that he could have gone in the pub for a pint and nobody would have noticed.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 09:35 AM

I'm an acoustic busker, but I have used amplification in places where it is otherwise too noisy to play, thus openining up more space for other buskers. But, as a rule, amplified buskers are the bane of my life (and probably of many shopkeepers!)

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 05:25 AM

I find it very selfish too. It closes down space to other buskers - and I detest that.

Subject: RE: amplified buskers
From: smallpiper
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 04:40 AM

Amplified buskers! I always avoid giving anything to any busker with an amp no matter how good they are!

Subject: amplified buskers
From: Jazzyjack
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 10:19 PM

My son has just done a bit of busking recently, having graduated with a theatre degree but having to make a few extra bucks where he can. He reports many " amplified " buskers. In fact one family has a gas generator going to provide power to their electric instruments. Is there no sacred acoustic space left in this world ?