BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 01:48 AM

Janie, another spot on description of my brother, Some people are in no personal distress at all, but the people who live and work with them are pulling their own hair out, or the person is unable to maintain a job or decent personal relationships. Though we aren't all pulling our hair out so much anymore, as he is finally learning some of that personal responsibility. To be fair to him, he is in some distress, at times, with panic attacks and depression.

I also like your explanation of mindbodysoul and your prediction makes sense and sounds very holistic to me. Thanks, very much, for your postings.

This is a really interesting thread. Gaining insights into all kinds of family things.:-) Well...I always knew we weren't *normal!* *bg*

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 03:21 AM

I sometimes do the 'not quite asleep/not really dreaming' thing. I think I am not really asleep and am aware of everything around me,but 2 hours later I wake up with a vivid dream of the time I was 'not asleep'.........is ver' weird.

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: GUEST,snooze
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 04:38 AM

Forgot to mention: auditory hallucinations can be music. Some of the best music I've ever heard was not actually real at all....

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 06:43 AM

On personal responsibility, I think many people learn exactly where lines are drawn - what they can get away with and what they absolutely HAVE to deal with. I don't think it's related to ADD though, except there are different sorts of things we'd like to get away with.

Getting out of that social event, not starting work on something until the last minute or spacing out while a friend's talking. After figuring out which things we must face, we then have to deal with how we behave in such a situation.

I'm not awfully good at pretending I'm enjoying myself. I get passive-aggressive and I'm miserable and miserable to be around. The best friends I've found are the ones who try to understand and possibly nip the passive-aggressive thing in the bud by asking "why are you acting like that?" I can always deny acting like 'that', but I usually would RATHER have them notice and I try to be honest. The healthiest thing would be if I told them before I started acting sullen or I avoided putting myself into those situations. Can't always avoid them, though, and I've occasionally found one small enjoyable aspect of an uncomfortable situation I could focus on.

Janie, I'm enjoying and learning from your remarks, as well as everyone else's comments. I haven't ever thought much about this and never dreamed other people shared aspects of some 'set' of personal idiosyncracies with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Janie
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 04:59 PM

Chip, There actually is not a strong correlation between IQ and ADHD/ADD. However, as many here have commented, because kids with ADD have difficulty fitting into the institutional mold of the typical school setting, many people with ADD of average to above average intelligence often grow up thinking they are stupid, and it comes as a huge surprise to them (and sadly, often to educators and family)when they learn that they are not. There is one correlation related to IQ that can support a diagnosis of ADD. The most commonly used IQ test yields 3 scores: Verbal IQ, Performance IQ, and Full-scale IQ. (The full scale IQ is based on the other two, but is not an average of the two. I'm a social worker, not a psychologist, so I am not sure how the final IQ is calculated from the subset scores.) When people with ADD are given IQ tests, there tends to be a much wider spread (10 points or more) between their verbal and performance scores, the verbal IQ being significantly higher than the performance IQ. {Surprise! Surprise!} A wide spread deos not mean a person has ADD,(and a narrow spread doesn't mean you don't have ADD,) but a wide difference in the subset scores may support the diagnosis in conjunction with signs and symptoms, and other evaluative tools.   

Hope to finish thoughts later about music and ADD--out of time.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 04:51 PM

Sorcha, indeed it IS helpful. Once again, far more helpful than doing google searches. Thanks to all.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: GUEST,A long-time kindred spirit of Peg
Date: 14 Jun 03 - 02:15 PM

Maybe Rick will work out where this is coming from if I mention Tunes of Glory, G Gould, and S Grossman (specifically his tendency to race at the tricky bits). Anyway I was labelled an underachiever through school, from which I was eventually expelled, and I have retained a fantastic capacity for absent-mindedness. For instance I once set out to attend a funeral, bumped into a pal from wayback on my way to the car, chatted for 10 minutes, then went home having forgotten I'd been on my way to a funeral. This was just one of many lapses that have threatened to land me in deep shit.

Various neurological explanations, including dementia, were explored and ruled out some years ago. Since when I've stumbled on ADDS which in my view fits me like a glove. I wouldn't consider any sort of medication, having seen the zombefying effects that medications have sometimes had on others, or at least I wouldn't as long as there are people around who are willing to cover my back.

Hope all is well with you Rick, or as well as can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Jun 03 - 03:00 PM

Yeah...Stefan DOES tend to rush some of those passages, ha ha!

Well, I doubt if I'd forget a funeral...BUT...I've avoided going to any for twenty years now, so who knows?

As much as I kid around a LOT, I AM glad to be able to put even a tentative label on some of my behaviour as an adolescent. It wasn't harmfull (really) but was certainly curious for one who sees himself as very sane. I would happily wander the isles of a hardware store for hours, checking out this and that DURING SCHOOL HOURS, and so the owner would really look puzzled (although nobody ever busted me.)

Funny thing is, that although I drew (and talked to) imaginary friends when I was young , I had lots of real ones as well, and certainly knew the difference.

One of the little bits of behaviour that must have struck my folks as highly odd was when I'd go into the basement and whack a GOLF ball against the cement wall with a tennis racket, catching it on the rebound with a trapper. Dangerous, but boy did I end up with hellish good reflexes (and a few bruises)....not that strange perhaps, but I kept up a constant hockey play by play chatter, sometimes using existing NHL players and sometimes making up fictional teams. Hmmmmm.

It would have been very relieving to have known that I wasn't the only one doing this (kind of ) stuff.

Fun though.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 14 Jun 03 - 03:17 PM

Don't have time to get into a long discussion, but it is not true that "Ritalin calms down young people and acts like speed for older people." It is true that in many children with the hyperactive/impulsive form of ADHD, the hyperactivity can fade as they get older, but the inattentive/disorganized symptoms remain. The right medication can be a lifesaver for both children and adults.

ADHD most likely results, at least in part, from some parts of the brain (the "executive center", among others) not functioning at an optimum level. Increasing the level of neurotransmitters (dopamine and norepinephrine) helps these parts of the brain to work better. So for these people the medication helps to replace something that's missing.

If your child has diabetes, you wouldn't withhold insulin because you don't want to "drug" him. And if she can't see the blackboard because she's nearsighted, you don't say, "I want her to work harder and see the board on her own" -- you give her glasses. Gotta run, but I'll be happy to continue this discussion at another time.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 11:49 AM

Interesting question--I wonder how many of our ADD adults have been following this thread, but are too scattered to post to it? Focus is a real & continious problem in the lives of those I know.

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Peg
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 01:30 PM

Mark-
when you do have time at some point it would be very interesting to hear a medical professional's view on this...
I really cannot agree, however, that deciding against Ritalin or other drugs to treat ADHD is akin to witholding insulin from a diabetic! Especialy since so many posting to this thread have offered anecdotal evidence that, for them, behavioral modification and therapy are effective and do not cause any side effects...
but that is not to say medication is not a desirable and effective choice for some...just maybe not for all. Interestingly enough, many in this thread who have posted to say they have specificaly NOT chosen medication, are people who claim to be very sensitive to such substances, or who have had negative responses in the past. I wonder what the correlation is here, with this specific disorder, and the appropriateness of certain chemicals to treat it...

GUEST Kindred Spirit; I've no idea who you are but am now curious! Always nice to meet a kindred spriit...

peg

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 06:20 PM

I suppose if I were miserable, I'd be willing to try a drug. I've been on Prozac for migraines, and it did seem to help, but not enough so I think anyone would proscribe it. (And I had nasty side effects.)

I think Mark said it though, when he talked about behavior modification, although what worked on me was more along the lines of THINKING modification. Find the puzzle in a boring situation: "what can I get out of this?" I'm just not THAT screwed up and can focus intensely on anything I have to that I don't dislike because I usually CAN find some small bit that's interesting - maybe THAT'S what makes me able to fit in. (Of course that's also what prompted me to, at about age 13 or so, go up to adults at a swimming pool and recite "Jabberwocky" just to see what they'd do.)

Rick, I had one of those big bouncy rubber balls and used to slam it into the staircase and try to hit it on the re-bound. Went on to love volleyball!

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 07:09 PM

Prozac for migraine? My God, it really is the Universal Panacea.

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 09:42 PM

Like you, Rick, I also used to spend hours throwing a ball against the wall in the basement and hitting it on the rebound when I was a child. I used a ping-pong ball and paddle.

Subject: RE: BS: Attention Deficit disorder in Adults.
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 10:13 PM

Guest, Prozac effects serotonin levels - I can't remember if it's a serotonin re-uptake inhibitor or works in some other way to make more of the stuff available. A lack of serotonin is believed to cause depression and it's also involved in migraines. It's really no surprise, therefore, that it should be prescribed for migraines.