BS: movies you're supposed to like

Subject: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 03:04 AM

I hope and trust my own inadequacies of opinion don't bias the thread. What are you supposed to like, but dear lord it doesn't work. Be honest.

   Saw Gangs of New York a minute ago. What was that thing? Why was it lord of the rings for the first 20 minutes? Who was that vampire lestat edward scissorhands thing? And, like Jesus the pervert bowler in big lebowski, why didn't we see more of it? What was this movie? Scorcese has done some big things, and also, cape fear. The guy misses. Good for him, that shows he's real--but what was this frigging thing supposed to be, aside from the obvious?

   I saw The Hours last week. Perfect title. And I love Glass music. But you know, a sillouette of a person filled in with headlight-blinding depression doesn't automatically run deep for me. Sure, I love depression. Death has been as sexy for me as for anyone who is still alive, I'll stand anyone on that. I'm gleefully poisoning myself right now. But while I'm still alive I'd just as soon while away my excruciating time actually getting to know real breathing human beings, instead of looking at cartoons of trumped-up existential depth. I prefer Doonesbury to Bloomsbury, I'm afraid. I'm not afraid of Virginia Wolfe, I just don't give a rat's ass fried in butter, with a dash of lemon basil.

   It's kind of like Traffic. The Benicio Del Torro mexican cop was the only person I cared about in the least, the rest could be abruptly shot in the face, anytime. So what? Except also the kids--sure, you have to care, and you do care: it doesn't count. And I hate baseball, I've had to sit through more baseball than should be legal to subject a moderately innocent child to, but still, his trust that evrybody likes basebal. That was still berry berry good to me.

   I tried again to get with Bladerunner. What? Help! What is this supposed to mean to me? The fake person you love turns out to be real enough for all practical intents and purposes, and Sean Young is cute enough, cute as anybody needs to be--as I typically say of the vast majority of women anyway--and what? It's supposed to take me all that long to get it? Like Henry James's Beast In The Jungle (originally published in the literary magazine DUH!). Why on earth does this silly-ass movie matter to all the intelligent people who seem to like it?

   And a good counterpoint would be junk you like. I thought Broadcast News was much much better than a neat romantic comedy. John Updike didn't like it, because he's a doofus, but he thought Overboard with Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell was surprisingly good. And it was.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 05:02 AM

The Shining. I thought that was a really poor story.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 06:04 AM

I didn't know there were any movies you were "supposed to like". Who does the supposing?

The value of reviews is that you identify particular reviewers, and calibrate them with your own tastes. Then you know, for example, that if so-and-so loved a movie, you'd probably hate it, and vice-versa.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 10:29 AM

Virginia Woolf. I thought The Hours was fine -- better than the book. The music was intrusive and thoughtless.

Most movies I am supposed to like I don't, but I am often surprised at how good the educated public taste can be. Nevertheless, to answer McGrath's question, I think there are movies that are designed so that you are supposed to think they are good, arty, or whatever. Those are the ones to watch out for.

A current example of this is "WhaleRider", which has everything: whales, girl striving for recognition, mysticism, exotic Maori dancers, compelling story line -- but everything about it seems fake. It won all kinds of audience awards, standing ovations, etc. but it seems to me to be manipulative in very obvious ways.

There are films you are not supposed to like, and which are clearly obvious trash, but grab you. Terminator 2, which is full of hideous things that on an ordinary day I would flee from, car crashes, stupid violence, etc., is an amazing film. Sometimes there is a very fine line, hard to make out. "Sleepless in Seattle" is complete trash, but works perfectly; a very similar film, "You've Got Mail" which even has the same people in it, and made a ton of money, is dreary. Everyone in it is unlikeable.

There are some films that even with their manipulative obviousness still work. Dances With Wolves is a good example. It is a complete fantasy, ridiculously manipulative, but it is a wonderful film.

Who knows? The gods of cinema are fickle.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 10:37 AM

Almost all movies about Vietnam, from "The Green Berets" through "Apocalypse Now" and beyond and including "Born on the 4th of July." I exclude "Hamburger Hill" (try watching it immediately after "Porkchop Hill" sometime!).

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 10:51 AM

I thought "Analyze That" was amazingly funny but should have turned out junk.

And "About Schmidt"-- Nicholson actually ACTING, like when he was a younger actor and not the self-caracature he's usually hired to deliver these days.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 11:41 AM

Well there's the Woody Allen line Have you seen Ghandi? No but I love it!

   And there is a formulation one sees often in some arty movies. There's a group of straightlaced repressed people. They're afraid to live. Into this comes a wildcard character, stirs things up. Sets someone free. I don't always object to formula per se, but of itself, without some fresh observation, it won't always grab me. Sometimes a few key scenes just seem actually wrong, and it loses you.

   I don't know about Dances With Wolves Peter. I agree with all the reasons you say it shouldn't work, but it frustrated me. Black Robe makes a good antidote to my problems with it.

   I liked Adaptation in many respects, it was audacious and conveyed a lot of truth about creative striving, but somehow its clever telling lacked the feel of resolution.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 12:48 PM

Oh don't mind me, I am just a sucker for beautiful white adopted Sioux women who just happen to have lost their husband 3 minutes ago, and now need to relearn their English, overcome their kidnap trauma, and connect with the only sensitive white man for 1000 miles in any direction. Just a thing I have.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:14 PM

Watership Down. Ten minutes into it I was ready to go run over a bunny. Don't know why. It just irritated the hell out of me.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 05:48 PM

I interpret "supposed" here as meaning that liking certain films is supposed to be part of a particular desirable lifestyle.

I got the impression Watership Down was a film you were "supposed" not to like. I loved it.

But then the music I love isn't the sort that people are supposed to like in 2003.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: LadyJean
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 05:54 PM

I suppose the problem is the movie critics. They give raves to films like "The Piano", which I thought rather pointless.
Now here's a question for you. If Katherine Hepburn were a young actress today, would she be making movies. Hollywood seems to be allergic to strong, intelligent women. We've gone from "Adams Rib" to "Legally Blonde 2"!

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: RangerSteve
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:47 PM

Almost every film I've ever seen that was a hit at the Sundance Film Festival has been a disappointment. They strike me as pointless, plotless and boring. I'm varied in my tastes: Harvey, True Lies, Amalie, The Music Man, Spiderman, My Fair Lady, Terminator I and II, Waking Ned Devine, Total Recall, Misery, Being John Malkovich - all great movies, but if it doesn't sing, wiggle or explode, I ain't watching it. And Sundance FF movies don't do either, they just lie there.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: mack/misophist
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:51 PM

The explanation for all this is that movies are a natrually flawed art form, when they aspire to art at all. Books are where it's at. How can an outside image be any better thaqn the movie in your head?

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 11:59 PM

I'm the wrong person to let into this discussion. I can suspend disbelief so easily and I am entertained fairly easily. With the exception of "Tess" which I thought was the longest Technicolor yawn I ever sat and slept through.


But then I liked WaterWorld and The Postman so what do I know.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McMusic
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 12:19 AM

Chariots Of fire. The hoopla! The awards! The ads! The soundtrack! The snooze! Long and boring.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McMusic
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 12:20 AM

P.S. Actually found the Postman better than it was given credit for.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 12:38 AM

Well all I mean by it McGrath is that people with whom one shares many other affinities of taste and interests are always recommending this movie and that. You begin to feel you are missing something.
   
People I know have been recommending Bladerunner to me for maybe twenty years. But the only science fiction I've ever really liked was Journey To the Center of the Earth, and later, Italo Calvino's Cosmicomics.

I'm trying to remember what sang, wiggled, or 'sploded in Being John Malkovitch. Maybe one's expectations of a plausible story exploded in fun. But I take the gist. A lot of sundance picks seem ponderous to me too.

   Not all critics liked the piano. I remember one that said it was the silliest movie about a woman and a piano he'd ever seen, and he proceeded to list several. There was also a prophetic oscar prediction based on the odd fact that every woman ever nominated for a non-speaking role had won. Hm.

   Don't mind me either Peter, I have the same thing, but Stands With A Fist just wasn't quite the kidnap-traumatized adopted and recently widowed beautiful Sioux woman I was looking for. She projects something cold and a little smug, somehow. Maybe I should write a personals ad, see how many fish in the sea fall into that general category. I enjoy romantic evenings dancing around a cozy fire, long walks, things like that.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 12:48 AM

Misophist said:

"The explanation for all this is that movies are a naturally flawed art form, when they aspire to art at all. Books are where it's at. How can an outside image be any better thaqn the movie in your head?"

I agree wholeheartedly -- with one exception. I once spent two wonderful days re-reading Edith Wharton's Age of Innocence, then rented the film the evening of the second day. It's one of the few films that actually was faithful to the book, depicted the story magnificently, and even enhanced it with stunning visuals and great cinematography. The secret may have been that they used a voiceover (Joanne Woodward) with Wharton's actual words taken from the book. I wish they could make more films of that calibre from good books.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Mudlark
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 02:40 AM

I was disappointed by A Mighty Wind and long ago quit even trying out blockbusters like The Titanic. Movies that I feel I shouldn't like but do: all Bruce Willis action films (I hate action films), Waterworld (and it was looong, too!) The Three Amigos (I was the only one in the theater laughing uncontrollably) and one of my alltime favorites, Tapeheads.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Angiemac
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 04:45 AM

Hello everyone, I enjoyed reading all of the comments, they were far more entertaining that some films I've been subjected to, however for some reason I can usually find some merit in every film I watch( even if it is the scenery). As a genre, I don't enjoy watching films with animals being accredited with human personalities and therefore being trained, persuaded or beaten to behave so.On the whole there's not much I wouldn't watch and the only films I can say were ( in my opinion) guff would be Gone with the wind and Eraserhead. The latter actually made me feel like blowing chunks.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 06:54 AM

I love films as an art form, and am rarely disappointed by a film I see, because I rarely go along to see a film that other people want to pressure me into seeing (because they want to see it), and because I don't view films as mere entertainment. For me, a good film is as satisfying as a good book, a good album, a good sculpture, etc.

That said, I don't often go to commercial Hollywood films. I enjoy a lot of foreign films, and American independent films. I'm not usually looking to be entertained by most films, though I do sometimes go to commercial Hollywood films for that purpose in summer, to escape the heat. But movie popcorn sucks so bad in the cineplexes now, you can't even say the popcorn was better than the film anymore.

I thought 'Being John Malkovich' was exceedingly tedious. Ditto for 'The Piano' only with the latter, I would add that it was dire as well.

I agree with PeterT about 'Dances With Wolves'. I attribute it to an enjoyable couple of hours with the beautiful Black Hills scenery, and the Lakota and other native actors in the film. The cinematography in that film was, IMO, stunning. The film was only about an hour too long, which is something I often say about 90 to 120 minute Hollywood releases.

I find the action movie genre not only boring and about as stupid as anything I've ever encountered in the world of 'entertainment'. I also find them to be a pathetic commentary on how our society continues to be addicted to and dominated by male violence and machismo.

I see most films now on DVD at home, because it is easier to see the types of films I most enjoy. One Hollywood commerical film I recently saw on television again was 'Moonstruck'. It was a nice ensemble romantic comedy. Very entertaining, except for Nick Cage, who I thought over acted badly.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Mooh
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 07:25 AM

Don't know about "supposed to"...but I don't watch movies repeatedly, with very few exceptions, those being Rob Roy, Last of the Mohicans, and various Robin Hood tales (I'm a sucker for the story). Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong century.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 08:08 AM

But watching films at home on a small screen - they're all small compared to a cinema - just isn't the same. It's a bit like like listening to music over the telephone.

Agreed that virtually all films that get generally released tend to be rubbish. And the art films that get the most kudos often tend to be rubbish as well. Very sad.

In between those two categories there are still a lot of great films being made, if you can ever get to see them. And an amazing back catalogue, which aren't of course normally available to us to see in cinemas.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 09:03 AM

Digital technology and large screens make for an amazingly satisfying film experience. Not as satisfying as the big screen, but much more satisfying than any other technology substitutes (ie tv reruns with commercials, or videocassettes with regular tv). And once you've invested in the technology, the cost of renting the DVD (which can be watched by a lot of people at once) versus the cost of a night out at the cinema, is pretty considerable over time, when you love films and watch them a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 09:05 AM

Another thing missing these days is that almost nobody ever sees a really beautiful black and white movie in a movie theatre. The last one that had a major release was Manhattan (a very, very, beautiful movie). It is a pity: the light in a fine black and white film is like nothing else. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 02:20 PM

And once you've invested in the technology...

But that's quite a lot of investment. What I wish was that there were places where you could go along with your own DVD and watch with a couple of friends on really good systems for a reasonable fee.

Though I imagine that'd probably run up against the kind of legal problems that get in the way of us using the techology we've got imaginatively.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 02:39 PM

Upon immature reflection, I think that films (and anything else) that is self-consciously "Art" fall flat. I can see enough ennui by looking around, thanks, and if you're lost in the mean neighborhoods of the uncaring big city why not go somewhere else?

But then again, the last time I went out to a movie it was to see Harry Potter 2.

I would like to see "Gods and Generals" though -- when does it come out on tape or DVD?

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 03:03 PM

"Gods and Generals" got the worst reviews of any movie I didn't see this year -- which is saying a lot! You sure? One reviewer said that the movie was so bad it was likely to end Civil War re-enactments all by itself.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 03:08 PM

Every now and then you get a story or a book that just begs to be made into a movie, and which is as good as the original story -- in particular I thought The Shawshank Redemption was well done.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 04:14 PM

"Art" should imply that the person who makes it is doing the versy best they can to get across some truth about the world, or share some way of appreciating it. It's what any kind of creative or performing artist is trying to do.

For some reason it's got tied in with an obsession about novelty and originality and impressing some kind of elite. And those are things that have nothing to do with it at all really.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 07:43 PM

I don't favor political movies or art with a point, but there's something to be said for the idea that beauty is a by-product of other activity. Sometimes having a point seems to distract people from being self-importantly arty. But then, sometimes not.

   Peter T I forgot that Manhattan was in black and white. Woody Allen movies blurr together for me--wasn't that the one that the Hemingway girl (they blurr together also, Muriel?) was so good in? And Wallace Shawn played Diane Keaton's devastating, ex, Jeremy? Been awhile.

   
   I don't think I've ever managed to convince anyone to see The Stone Boy, an unexpectedly good movie that nobody ever liked. It doesn't sound good, so I won't try.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 08:55 PM

THELMA AND LOUISE!!!

I had heard this was a movie about two strong, sassy, smart, daring women. I thought they were just about two of the stupidest bitches I ever did see.

And most of you already know how I feel about The Piano.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 12:02 AM

Peter T., I didn't read any reviews of "Gods and Generals" but I did read the book. All I really know about it is that the movie is supposed to be really long and that there is an intermission. Besides, I really do prefer to make up my own mind, not simply accept what a reviewer says.

Back in 1991 or so I was on a committee to decide what were the "Notable Books" of the year. There was one book I thoroughly enjoyed and thought it was outstanding -- and I gave it the only vote it got; I got the "you don't know squat about good books" look from other members of the committee. No, I'm not going to mention titles or organizations, but all but one of the books they finally listed as "Notable" I found "arty".

I don't object at all to good art, or even poor art done honestly. I object to ANY art form that takes itself sooooooooooooo seriously that it no longer has internal structure and discipline or a sense of fun.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 01:28 AM

I agree with Peter T. about "Dances With Wolves" and "Terminator II"...both tremendously effective movies, despite objections one might have to the basic premises of one or the other of them.

Interestingly enough, I almost always like Arnold Schwarzenneger films, even though I don't like other action films of the same general type. Why? Because I like him for whatever reason. Same deal goes for Clint Eastwood, most of the time.

One's affection for a particular actor/actress can completely override the subject matter of the film itself...and that is why Hollywood places such value on stars, naturally. It works for me with Arnold, Clint, and Winona Ryder (although I will still not put up with Adam Sandler in order to see Winona).

I liked Watership Down too, by the way. It was quite faithful to the book, and I loved the book, so there you go.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:11 AM

A couple of women I know went along to Thelma and Louise. "How did you like it?" "Fell asleep through most of it."

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:20 AM

Yes, Manhattan was with Mariel Hemingway. The Wallace Shawn character (the humunculus) was from Annie Hall.

I thought "Thelma and Louise" was a very manipulative film, completely implausible. I was completely appalled that something so violent and crummy was taken up as some kind of feminist statement, essentially girls being as miserable as boys, blowing things up on the open road. This is progress?
   
The person I have never been able to figure out why people like is Michael Douglas. He seems to me to have no talent, overexerts himself to no point, and is like some stuffed doll. Like an anglo saxon Ricardo Montalban (I prefer Ricardo Montalban). I have never seen him do anything remotely interesting in a film (he practically ruined Basic Instinct just by being in it).

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Ely
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:57 AM

"Gods and Generals" was annoying and sappy--if you want a Civil War movie, go rent "Glory" and be done with it.

I hated "American Beauty"--how was that Oscar material? I know Americans are famous for their soulless materialism but are we really supposed to believe that this exaggerated example represents us?

I didn't see the point of "the Piano", either. I mostly watched it for the costumes (I'll watch nearly anything for the costumes). I attempted to watch "Gangs of New York" last night, for Daniel Day-Lewis's sake, but I hate Leonardo Di Caprio and Cameron Diaz and lost interest after about 10 minutes. I got bored during "Dances With Wolves", too. It doesn't take much action to entertain me and I STILL thought it was dull. Kevin Costner always gives me the impression that he's playing himself and the rest of the movie must conform to him.

My mother made me watch that Disney movie about mustangs ("Spirit"?). I'm WAY too old for Disney. I love horses and can't stand to see them drawn so poorly. They destroyed a locomotive (I love trains, too).

And I don't like "Clockwork Orange".

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 11:54 AM

Has anyone here ever seen a good movie about South Africa? Every one of the films I have seen ("Biko", etc.) has been full of "nobility" and "suffering" and you can hardly wait to get out of the theatre. I would love to see one about the long troubles there that was on the same level as J.M. Coetzee's Disgrace or most of Nadine Gordimer. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 12:16 PM

It's a long time since I saw the 1951 film "Cry the Beloved Country", but I seem to remember it was pretty good. There's a more recent cversion from 1995 which I've never seen.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 01:30 PM

Master Harold and The Boys, a Broadway play, was made into a movie about South Africa. Not great but worth seeing.

The Jewel In The Crown was a brilliant movie makeover of the trilogy. Read the books and saw the series at the same time trying to stay one chapter ahead. Not theatre but TV.

I loved "The Piano" and also loved "The Apostle". Robert Duvall can do no wrong. But I have never been able to see a Godfather movie from beginning to end. And I fell asleep during Batman. But I also fell asleep during Phantom when it played on Broadway. Trainspotting disgusted me; I just don't get the humor in neglected babies and shooting dogs in the butt.

I prefer to go to the movies alone so that I can get up and leave if I am bored. Sorry for the babble.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 01:58 PM

... "the Piano", either. I mostly watched it for the costumes"

Of course there was that bit without the costume as well...

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 05:03 PM

One film I think is magnificent is Black Robe. Anyone I know who has seen it finds it depressing, but I appreciate seeing a representation of some semblance of failure on the part of white culture in the attempt to dominate the indiginous peoples of North America. Hollywood has ruined this history for many people. Again, one of the few I'll watch again.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 06:38 PM

I don't know about "supposed to like," but I saw "Bend It Like Beckham" this afternoon, and thought it was excellent.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 07:38 PM

Mooh, me too. I mentioned Black Robe as an antidote to Dances with Wolves. Another thing it describes nicely is how hard it is for people to understand each other. The story takes the people and their differences more seriously.

   I thought the Piano was very good cinematography, loved Anna Paquin and still do. She's also very good in Fly Away Home. The Piano story let me down, but it's always nice to see Holly Hunter naked; good acting is sexy, and she can act.

I'd read a striking review of American Beauty and felt let down by the movie, maybe as a result. I imagined a really unusually good movie. The scene where the daughter stands so her boyfriend can grok a look at her dead father--that's incorrect, wrong, it just didn't happen. That among a few other things. And I wonder what writer really thinks he or she can speak with such casually smug omnicience.

Robert Duvall can do very little wrong. But I didn't get Network. Duvall is also the father in the Stone Boy. And he incredibly never hit a wrong note in Tomorrow, a difficult part.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 07:45 PM

The original Star Wars triology. I haven't even bothered to view the latest efforts.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 12:40 AM

The latest efforts are barely worth viewing. The orginal trilogy was pretty darned good, mainly because it WAS so original. People should know when to quit, when it comes to a good idea, but tell that to the movie industry or Tim Horton's or WalMart or any other profit-oriented monstrosity of that sort.

Black Robe is a very good film, but I still love Dances With Wolves. It is Kevin Kostner's unequaled moment of glory in a career that has seen some pretty poor movies (and a few quite good ones).

I really liked "Heaven And Earth", a Vietnam movie with some real Vietnamese roles in it (which is very rare...usually they're all just about Americans (the only real people in the eyes of Hollywood), and the "gooks" are just there to get shot at, etc...). That's what Indians were for too, in most of the westerns ever made.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:58 AM

Peter, we just watched a new one in Africa, made for tv, called Sleeping Dictionary with Jessica Alba in a much different, more mature role than she had in her tv series Dark Angel. While it was simplistic in its resolution, it was still a good representation of younger generation Englishman going there and rejecting the racism of his elders, It was esp. interesting to see Alba acting such a different part, plus she is so very beautiful.:-)

PBS ran one years ago, with Haley Mills, called Flame Trees of Thika which I thought was good; based on the book by Elspeth Huxley.

BUT, the BEST I've seen about Africa and filmed entirely in Africa was on PBS's "Mystery" and was called Heat of the Sun.

I haven't liked any of the recent ones with Tom Hanks in them which is supposed to be an automatic "must-see." I used to really, really enjoy his films, but not since Forrest Gump. Since then, they are either about a subject matter which doesn't interest me and/or boring. The only one I actually thought I'd try was the one with him on a deserted island. Stupidest, most monotonous, boring thing I've ever fallen alseep during.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:44 AM

The first two Star Wars movies were great -- the third was a disaster. Wookies, I mean really. Shining dead people!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:16 AM

I've seen "Glory" and thought it outstanding. I also thought that "Gettysburg" was quite good.

I wasn't able to sit through "Braveheart" or "Bruce," though. Unable to willingly suspend disbelief, I guess.

As for humor, I like "Blazing Saddles" and "Robin Hood: Men In Tights" for their satire. I might just have low tastes in comedy, however. "Young Frankenstein" has its moments as well.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:30 AM

Aw. I thought Castaway was all right, even though Helen Hunt creeps me out. My ideal movie to not see would star Michael Douglas and Helen Hunt in a Merchant-Ivory production of a book by E.M. Forster, or any story about English real-estate. But to be fair, Douglas makes a convincing asshole, and I'd still probably see it if Helena Bonham Carter appeared in period non-costume.

   I wish Fight Club had developed her character. The beginning with the support-group voteurism was interesting and funny, but the whole doppleganger thing left me wondering what I had found so interesting. I think they may have exaggerated the theraputic effects of violence, a wee bit. Batman got dragged down by a trumped-up identity issue also. He's Bruce Wayne AND Batman, that's the deal, get over it.

    I remember watching Castaway with my wife and saying If he gets back and she isn't married, I'm turning it off. She was, but then I made my wife sign an agreement that if I'm ever stranded on an island for four years with a volleyball, on my return, re-married or not, I get a little more than a hug.

   I can't say I didn't enjoy Dances With Wolves a bit, but there was all that silly stuff that cheapened it--Costner's character had no family or history--it was kind of like a young-adult time-travel fantasy. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as that, but it had some pretentions and weak moments--the humour especially was pretty tired stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 11:29 AM

Peter, what about The Gods Must Be Crazy? Dang, but that is one of my favorites, and I haven't seen it in years.

Another one of those movies you're supposed to like: Blue Velvet. How awfully STRANGE. I can't say I liked it at all. Isabella Rosellini definitely cannot sing.

As for movies you're not supposed to like: I have my own copy of the much-maligned Ishtar. Should be required viewing for all songwriters everywhere. ;-)

I haven't seen Gangs of New York yet, but plan to rent it. My friend Howard liked it, and he is not what I'd call an Easy Sell. I will have to see it simply because my man Daniel Day-Lewis is in it. Another of my friends described his character in this movie as "a cross between Snidely Whiplash and the Cat in the Hat."

I also did not like The Blair Witch Project. Bunch of sissy kids screaming at each other in the woods. Pah! However, the fact that it was a hit made on a shoestring budget is pretty encouraging for other indie film makers.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Burke
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 12:33 PM

I go to very few movies & don't rent many videos either. When Chicago came to my local discount movie house a month or so ago, I decided to go since I remebered it had been up for awards. I should have saved my money.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:10 PM

All them fancy awards don't mean doodley-squat.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:45 PM

Oh, Fred I sat through Gangs of New York this weekend as well. I wouldn't call it suffering because I was more amazed at how bad it was. I thought maybe Scorsese was sending some sort of coded message through the badness of it all. A wounded Day-Lewis wrapped in an American Flag for no reason. How. . . what? Artsy? no. Profound? No. A mystery. Amazing attention to costume detail, and then to let it fill a screen that looked, during the street scenes, like a documentary about film studios - i.e., bad lighting, artifical in all appearance. Why??? What was the point?? I just don't know. And the hokey speeding up of the film where, e.g. the kid tripped that guy, and a few other "action shots." That was so bad it was no accident. Scorsese wants us to debate his intent? To ponder his genius? I dunno. Must stop thinking about it.

The Stone Boy is not available on DVD, too bad for me. I'll look forward to it.

Tonight I will watch The Man Who Cried. Johnny Depp and Cate Blanchett. The netflix fans decribe it as a failed attempt to make an "art" film, with total failure as the direct result. We'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 03:02 PM

Robert Duvall can do no wrong? Apparently some of you haven't seen the movie 'Colors'.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 04:40 PM

I haven't seen Colors, but I'm squarely in the Duvall camp. He has a new cowboy movie coming out, but I don't know when. He's in his 70s and still does most of his own stunts.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 05:54 PM

Any of the Godfather films. I still don't see the attraction.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 06:32 PM

A Fish Called Wanda - hated it, walked out.

Ditto for Little Shop of Horrors and I LOVE going to the movies! That schmatlzy song from Annie, "Let's go to the movies" could've been written for me!**BG**

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 06:40 PM

I detested "The Hours," both film and book. Pointless.

Last night I rented a film which was good, and hasn't received a lot of PR. It's called "Max," and stars John Cusack. NYT called it one of the best films of the year. I won't say what it's about, so as not to spoil it, but suggest renting it.

Another that no one has heard of and which is equally good: Susan Sarandon in "Safe Passage."

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: curmudgeon
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 06:42 PM

Films I have not liked include:

The Graduate;read the book, hated it, movie no improvement.
Barry Lyndon; great cinematography and music, no acting talent.
Braveheart; unfaithful to history, Wallace was weilding a 16th c. German sword.
Rob Roy; drivel with no concern about the real Rob Roy MacGregor. Disney's version was much better.
And almost everything made in the USA in the past 20 years -- Tom

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 07:58 PM

That reminds me -- has anyone seen the Japanese film "Tampopo"? We've watched it several times -- a wonderful film in which the Japanese spoof their own culture, America's, and every cliche you can imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Grab
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:10 PM

Latest Terminator - what a load of rubbish. First two were pretty good, but this one just sucks. Maybe it'd be more acceptable as a comedy-thriller if the first two hadn't been so ground-breaking, but this one pissed on the grave of the first two. It's even more a shame bcos the plot concept was just brilliant (tying up the logical hole of T2) and a competent director could really have made something special of it. Instead they got Jonathan Mostow who's not made a good film in his life, and the whole thing turned into Batman & Robin (or insert your most hated trash film here).

I'll second (or third) the hatred of the latest Star Wars films. Lord of the Rings is a great example of how to put effects seamlessly into a movie (with very few exceptions), and the reissued original Star Wars trilogy managed to digitally add stuff pretty well too. In the new Star Wars films though, every other scene screams "FAKE!!" at the top of its lungs. Although even those were better than Final Fantasy which was made by animators who'd apparently never seen a living human being.

The Matrix didn't do too much for me either. I suppose there was some good stuff, but it was stomped so comprehensively by Crouching Tiger a couple of months later that I can't now remember anything impressive about it.

Junk I do like: God help me, but I have to own up to Top Gun, Tango & Cash, and the old classic swordfighting films like Captain Blood or Zorro. I'm a sucker for action films, but unless you care about the characters then you might as well be watching paint dry.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Amergin
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:25 PM

i hated forrest gimp....i thought it was the mostboring long...piece of right wing shit ever....also I hated the hell out of gone with the wind...thought it very boring...and that the main character was nothing but a spoiled little bitch with no redemming qualities...

as for braveheart...i loved it when it came out...thought it had a decent story and everything...but when i read about wallace...i found tha the only part they got right in it was that he was drawn and quartered....ever since then I have found it hard to sit through...

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:37 PM

Little Hawk,

But I didn't like the original Star Wars trilogy.

I thought the point of the thread was to admit to not liking something that one is supposed to like.

I didn't like original trilogy because I grew up on the SF classics in book form.

Such much annoyed me about the trilogy that I cannot even begin. Isaac Asimov would never have invented body armor for Imperial troopers that proved vulnerable to EVERYTHING including arrows fired by teddy bears.

Russ

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 07:15 AM

I'll second Forest Gimp! APPALLINGLY BAD!

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 09:39 AM

Kim C, Funny you mention the Gods Must Be Crazy, I was thinking how tired the humor in D with Wolves was, as opposed to how fresh the same sort of stock physical gags came out in Gods. The double door slam, the jeep window, that stuff was funnier than it should be.

   But I thought Blue Velvet was pretty entertaining, and still like to say Why are there people like Frank? Why is there so much trouble in the world? Didn't like much of Lynch's other stuff too well, a few bits and pieces.

   I thought Blair Witch was pretty brilliant. I grew up on old school horror movies, John Carpenter used to be my babysitter. The last time I was startled at a horror movie was when my wife abruptly dumped her coke in my lap. I thought the script was really very good, in a time when most horror movies are written by the special effects crew. Kept wondering how they were going to up the tension. They found ways. The gilligan's island banter was note-perfect stupid banter, utterly believable. "The Captain? It was the SKIPPER, you t.v. illiterate people"! Try to write lines like that. And the final image was so bizarre, not over-done, just enough, well-earned. I liked it.

   The thing about The Hours was I was WAITING for Ed Harris to jump out a window. I started to care a little about most of the characters, in some scenes, but it just kept playing the same few notes. (No Philip Glass jokes please.)Compare it to Juliette Binoche in Unbearable Lightness of Being. Life was "heavy" for her. And you felt it more, and cared more, because she didn't spend every second on showing you that life was heavy for her, but laughed, skipped like a schoolgirl, wondered why nekid vomen were so interestink, and so pathetically tried to get out of it. Tried not to be sad, tried not to care so much. That was a good performance, I thought, and I could imagine how a good actress could easily have ruined it.

   I think Scorcese probably was self-consciously referencing other movies in Gangs, and most good artists probably like to comment about their business along the way, but for me it didn't seem to tie in, or add up, it just seemed flippant and silly. I didn't suffer either, I just didn't get it.

   I may have said before, Strictly Ballroom. Very dopey, and great fun. Every dance movie cliche you've ever seen in one neat, healthily subversive package. Wake the kids.

   I never saw any of the Star Wars movies til episode 1 came out, so I missed how fresh they must have been. They just seem generally all right to me. Jar Jar Binks reminded me of the informant/pimp character from old t.v. cop shows like Barretta and Starsky and Hutch. Rooster, Huggie Bear, Jar Jar. What if Liam had grabbed J.J.'s tongue and said "You will not say another word for the rest of this movie".

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 09:43 AM

I think I've saved an awful lot of time not seeing most of the movies people in this thread have said they hated.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 10:10 AM

Well, Fred, maybe I will have to watch Blue Velvet and Blair Witch again. I'd certainly be willing. I guess the reason I didn't like them at first viewing was, they were not what I expected. I didn't like 13th Warrior the first time either - but the second time, I was hooked.

I'll admit to some junk, too - I absolutely LOVE kung fu movies.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Li'l Aussie Bleeder
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 10:36 AM

'The Elephant Man'   left a lasting impression on me, both visualy and emotionally. I thought B/W was the perfect medium for the film.
I also loved the Godfathers'

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 01:35 PM

Funny, but I didn't like Unbearable Lightness Of Being the first time I saw it, and I'd almost swear the opening was different at the theatre than on the video. It seemed like soft porn with no story. We saw it again just for help with Czech accents when my wife was in Larry Shue's play Wenceslas Square, and watching it again with no expectations, it killed us. When they buried their dog. It ambled around, plotlessly, but the details, and rendering of the characters were the whole story.

It's odd. My whole life my mother has said how surprised she was when she saw the Mona Lisa, how small it was. So when my sister and I saw it, we were shocked how friggin huge it was.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 01:53 PM

I confess that The Unbearable etc was pretty Unbearable, maybe because I disliked all the characters. The only film of Daniel Day Lewis' that I haven't liked. Also, I inevitably compared it to Kieslowski's films like The Double Life of Veronique or Red, which are in another league.

A horror film that completely sucked me in was Sixth Sense. I was the perfect audience for it, having just broken up with someone -- the classic alienated male!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Beccy
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 04:23 PM

Dances with Wolves and Analyze This were two of the movies that made me doubt the taste of my fellow countrymen.
I thought Dances with Wolves was interminable and unbearably dull. I kept wondering how the heck Kevin Costner got the job (same as in his Wyatt Earp and Water World). Why in God's green earth people keep allowing him to make epic snoozers is beyond me.

Analyze This ought to have been funny, but DeNiro and Crystal just didn't work together for me. My poor husband sat through the whole thing muttering, "No, we won't shut it off yet- there must be SOMETHING funny in this movie. It's getting great box office receipts and everyone we know loved this. We're not shutting it off now." I walked away 30 minutes into it, grabbed a book, and shut myself in another room so that I could be done with Lisa Kudrow's whiny ablutions and the painful attempts at humour by De Niro (who CAN be funny) and Crystal (oh the agony- I love that guy- but this film bit.)

Beccy

P.S. Anything with Adam Sandler annoys the heck out of me. I can't stand a comedian who laughs all the way through his own jokes. It's like a laugh track. It's only there 'cause otherwise you wouldn't laugh with him.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Jenny Islander
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:13 PM

Adam Sandler anything. Gross-out humor in general--was my generation the last to be told "Grow up and stop telling ca-ca jokes!" or what? Just about anything American labeled "coming of age" because most of the characters coming of age are well-built jerks who learn nothing except new sexual positions. Gangster flicks. Gangsta flicks. Yes, life sucks for a lot of my fellow Americans and for many people around the world. I learn the gory details from NPR and the newspapers; I go to movies to escape. That said, I do enjoy films that make me think as long as they are not depressing.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Li'l Aussie Bleeder
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 06:04 AM

My favorite must see movie is 'Travelling Birds.' I know we're supposed to like it, but I loved it, 90mins of pure joy.

Bleeders' Partner

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Beccy
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 08:36 AM

Jenny Islander- Thank you for reminding me.

American Pie -I couldn't sit through more than 8 minutes of it.

American Beauty -Thanks, Mr. Spacey... I can do without the picture of you doing THAT in my head. Ick.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:09 AM

I don't usually like gangsta movies, but boyz in the hood isn't really, and I liked it a lot. It came out about when... um--was it Grand Canyon? What was the movie that Steve Martin and Kevin Kline, and everyone catalogued yuppie fears and worries and pretended to present some sort of universal insight? Anyway, that one.

   By contrast Boyz in The Hood seemed a little flawed in the opposite way, by fitting a big picture in too small a frame. It's a good movie about the world.

I thought Sixth Sense was pretty darn good. Then The Others came too quick on it's heels, spoiled the twist for me.

I liked Flirting as a coming of age movie. The jazz class at the all girl school was lovely. I remember seeing a movie called Hadley's Revolt, maybe even made for t.v., about a young wrestler who eventually quits, which had some fine touches of acting, and was oddly inspiring. About quiting. What does that say about me.

   Drumroll. I don't care much for Citizen Kane. The Rosebud thing tends to make me giggle.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:22 AM

Speaking of horror films, "There's Something About Mary" must be one of the weirder films ever made -- it certainly spawned a whole generation of monsters, whose end is not in sight. I finally saw it a month ago, and it had a sort of weird fascination -- it was in such appalling taste, and yet had the kind of sheen of a big budget film. It obviously broke some barriers that didn't need breaking: we get to laugh at the disabled, naked old women, people with AIDS, watch someone masturbating, etc. It is only held together by the sheer fascination of watching the epitome of the image of beautiful innocence, Cameron Diaz, surrounded by total sleaze, and every once in awhile having her say things like "I'm fucking with you, Ted," as if the directors decided we would like the image of a goddess smeared with horse manure. It is certainly weird. I suppose if you were sixteen it would also be incredibly daring and funny (at least when it came out). yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 01:18 PM

Beccy you are just going to *love* Adaptation.

On a minor note I believe the comments about sundance awards, but I know they do not apply to Two Family House which is an entirely unpretentious and satisfying little filmette.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 04:20 PM

I went to college with Something About Mary's brother, Earl Brown, and still remember how excited he was when he told us he'd been accepted at Second City. I thought some of it was pretty funny--defibulating the dog, an absurd varitaion of the ball-off-the-balcony story Truman Capote liked to tell.

   Is Cameron Diaz really the image of innocence? She seems to really enjoy doing smut humor, that wiggly dance she always does, and likeably will try to sing even though she utterly can't. She seems to me more like a perfect clown-face of the high-school popular girl, with that streak of wide-grinning cruelty they had toward the others.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 04:42 PM

My parents somehow made the mistake of going to see "There's Something About Mary" at the theatre...and they were so disgusted that they haven't gone to a movie since! :-) What a tribute to the marketing brilliance of Hollywood...

Hey, Kat, I thought "A Fish Called Wanda" was the funniest movie I ever saw in my life, and have happily re-viewed it on 5 or 6 occasions since! Gosh, makes ya wonder, eh? Are you deeply offended by jokes involving a stutterer or was it something else? If so, rest easy, cos no one would dare do that anymore, except in a teen exploitation film where they dare to do much worse things (and in a totally mean-minded and moronic fashion, too). I despise the political correctness of the present age, which preaches tolerance and non-prejudice (in the form of enforced conformity) out of one side of its mouth and markets astounding vulgarity and violence out of the other side without blinking an eye.

It isn't what you show on the screen that matters...it's the spirit in which you show it. And boy, is there ever a crass spirit out there making a lot of movies these days.

As for "Blair Witch Project", well, that was kind of like paying to have a low-level migraine headache. Fortunately, I saw it for free. Still, I really think that the people who made it owe me a few bucks for the wasted time... :-) Be advised that it has also spawned (according to what I've read) two...count 'em, two...of the poorest computer games of ALL TIME!!!! YAYYYYY!!!! (picture Kermit the Frog waving his little greeen arms frantically in the air...)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 05:01 PM

Interesting remarks about Cameron Diaz -- I hadn't thought about the film as a projection of the male (or female?) hostility towards the most popular girl in school, and the cruelty of the gods towards lesser mortals. It does make sense (and of course all the dopy men get punished in the end, but one, so the goddess wins after all). The dog bit out the window is funny, beautifully timed, but of course one saw it a hundred times replayed before one actually got to see the film. I think you have to have a cruel streak to find much of the rest of the film funny, there is something debasing about it -- probably because the audience is made to be complicit.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 10:34 AM

Well, I didn't mean I took Something About Mary that way, particularly, although it may have something like that in it. I just meant that Diaz looks exactly like those girls I went to high school with, and she does the whole repetoire of girly facial primpings and dirndlings, like a prissy school-kid.

   It's an interesting problem with comedy. Some people seem perpetually opposed to Aristotle's basic idea that comedy is generally about characters who are worse than average, and seem to think stories about role models would be funnier. I don't mean anybody here, but you run into people like that. I sometimes think that making fun of people, in the right way, is really friendlier and more inclusive than insisting on everyone's immaculate dignity. But striking the right tone for everyone seems out of reach. Of the three questions
      What's the funniest movie you've seen?
      ...the sexiest?
      ...the saddest?

--the last one is the easy one for me. Movies do pretty well with sad. On paper Gogol's General Inspector might be my Funniest play, but I don't know about movies. The Gods Must Be Crazy seems to appeal pretty broadly. "Inspiring" is hard too--most Inspirational movies seem depressing.

    I tried to watch Blazing Saddles the other night. Yow. The racial language, the rape jokes, the bikini babes, the Gene Wilder. But I suppose if I liked the jokes, was in the general spirit of it, the sheer audacity of using such language, of riffing on slurs in a put-on way, and of hiring Gene Wilder as an actor, would heighten it. I really don't know. It reminded me of a Rat-pack joke I heard as a kid maybe 30 years ago, that isn't even a joke, but it was actually told, and people dutifully laughed. "Why do they call it a bikini? Because that's where they dropped the atom bomb"--just thinking of it gives me an electric charge of disgust, like stepping on a slug. It's so fascinatingly absurdly horrible.

   Best I can make out, comedy strays from humor because people dutifully laugh when you tickle them in places where they have some tension, or you nudge them to congratulate themselves for getting something, and so it looks as though something is actually funny. My wife does this thing at plays, she just laughs when something is funny--not at the designated kodak-picture-spots where you are supposed to laugh to show that you got that reference to the philosophy of Kant, or whatever--and then the audience laughs a beat after her. Comedy has a seedy, gross, social-group dynamic. It seems a little easy to pick on the teens about that.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 11:43 AM

Funniest movie: Monty Python I
Sexiest movie: Vertigo (James Stewart undresses Kim Novak while she is probably pretending to be unconscious, but we don't know that, and never learn the truth. He is driven mad by unrequited passion and guilt. He makes love to another woman who he has transformed into the first woman, his ideal woman, the woman he has dreamed about, and lost).
Saddest movie: Vertigo (James Stewart sees the woman he loves fall to her death twice, and he believes himself to be responsible for it, twice. He is driven mad by unrequited passion and guilt. He makes love to another woman who he has transformed into the first woman, his ideal woman, the woman he has dreamed about and lost).

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 11:54 AM

I think Raising Arizona is probably one of the funniest movies I've ever seen.

Sexy - well, the movie isn't sexy really, but I thought the scene in Out of Africa where Redford washes Streep's hair was pretty good. Don't underestimate the value of the simple & mundane.

Sad - hmm....... I cried all the way through The Patriot, and didn't stop till after I got home. Mister bought the video but I have refused to watch it again.

Blazing Saddles is a great movie because it makes stereotypes look totally ridiculous. Notice, the Sheriff is the ONLY person in the whole story who has any sense at all - and it's his savvy that makes everyone else look completely stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 01:41 PM

Funniest movie - Cat Ballou. The scene with the horse is yet unmatched, as is the scene with the coffin. Lee Marvin was wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 01:49 PM

Funniest? A Fish Called Wanda. Sexiest? Body Heat. Saddest? I don't know...I tend to avoid really sad movies, I guess.

Cat Ballou was really neat, all right.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: GUEST,Desdemona at work
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 02:31 PM

The anachronistic weaponry was the LEAST of the historical accuracies in "Braveheart": they've got a man carrying on with a French princess
(whom he'd never have had a snowball in hell's chance of laying eyes on in any case) who didn't even arrive in England until 6 yaers after he'd been drawn & quartered, besides the point that while Edward II definitely fancied his male favourites, he still went both ways, as he & Isabella (the "She-Wolf of France", as she came to be known after she & her lover had her husband murdered with a hot poker up his bum---NICE) went on to have 4 children, including the extremely war-like Edward III, who was Edward I all over again. Rubbish.

Movies I really, really like tend to be the ones with their tongues firmly in cheek---"Young Frankenstein", "Monty Python & The Holy Grail", "This Is Spinal Tap", even "Shakespeare In Love", which was excellent. Kenneth Branagh's "Henry V" and "Much Ado About Nothing" were great fun. I can also go for a really well-made romantic comedy like "Four Weddings and a Funeral" or "When Harry Met Sally"...I don't generally look to the cinema to "elevate" or "enlighten" me these days, but more for a bit of fun.

Saw "Pirates of the Caribbean" last night---very campy & over-the-top; Johnny Depp's pirate interpretation (apparently based almost entirely on Keith Richards---manner, accent, fashion sense, the lot) is well worth the price of admission!

D.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Amergin
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:05 PM

kim...i cried the way through the patriot too....was bored to tears...

as for funniest movie...well it would be life of brian....or dr strangelove....or the toxic avenger....

sexiest....behind the green door...BG...seriously....i would probably say an affair to remember...and indiscreet....

saddest movie...I would probably have to say Titus...with Anthony Hopkins and Angus MacFadyen....or This Is My Father...with Aidan Quinn...

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:40 PM

Oh, Amergin! That ain't why I cried during The Patriot! ;-)

Can't wait to see Pirates of the Caribbean. I love Johnny Depp.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 06:55 PM

Kim C, I didn't mean to disparage Blazing Saddles, although I don't really know how to enjoy it. The pace is odd, slow, the jokes knock and wipe their feet before entering. The racial terms seem at best un-necesary to the do the jokes. I wanted suggest that it's a little unfair to lump newer risky comedies that might easily offend someone. It's nothing new, or peculiar to movies that young people tend to like. Or maybe I like the newer stuff better, but who the hell am I, anyway. I'm afraid I find very awful things pretty funny. I thought Adaptation was hilarious. Storytelling is a serious movie in many ways, but it's also a scream.

   I liked Raising Arizona quite a bit. Did I mention I like Holly Hunter? I like Holly Hunter.

   I always enjoyed the python show more than the movies. The show seemed more exhuberant, not having to tie things together, and when it went on too long the foot would come down. I missed the foot, in the movies.

   I don't usually think movies about sexy stuff are very sexy. Some of the old rock and roll dance footage is pretty sexy to me, it's so sweet, physical, silly, and fun.

   Raging Bull is my wife's saddest movie, I proudly relate. It could be mine. But Camille Claudel is up there to. Death of a Salesman. There are some good ones.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 02:54 AM

sexiest - at least two come to mind: an Argentine one called "Tango" and "Tattoo" with Bruce Dern, which has a very scarey edge to it, too.

Poignant and sad: "Always" with Holly Hunter and Richard Dreyfuss and "Ghost" with Patrick Swayze (who also made it qualify as pretty sexy, too!)

LOVED Brannagh's Henry V!!

Not sure what it was about a Fish Called Wanda, LH. It hit me wrong from the beginning; I think I only watched about 15 minutes before I got up and left. I was expecting to like it because of the actors.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 04:16 PM

Have all you other Python fans seen "Live at the Hollywood Bowl"?
I LOVED that one!
Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 05:06 PM

Hmm. Well, I guess there's no explaining these things, Kat. How about those silly Austin Powers movies? My initial reaction to them was quite negative, but then I all of a sudden switched around and started really enjoying them for some reason.

"Crikey! I've lost my mojo!" I like 'em because they are so utterly silly, they know it, and Austin has a sort of innocent exuberance that's really rather likeable. He's a happy sort of bloke.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 07:41 PM

Wouldn't even give them the time of day, LH!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 08:30 PM

Funnest: Support Your Local Sherriff

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 08:42 PM

I like Austin Powers all right, I generally like Mike Myers. Unlike other SNL alumni, he can keep a straight face, or a crooked face, or any sort of weird grin, under any circumstances, he's good, and I think a real humorist. I tend to like certain short bits better than the extended movies. Guess I like short comedy pieces. I'll have to look for the Live Python, I've never heard of it.

I really didn't like David Lynch's Wild At Heart, but even that had a few okay things--like Harry Dean Stanton sympathetically growling with a pack of wolves on the nature channel--like a Far Side cartoon of a guy watching sports. Aaaahg! and, YES!

   Another great line in Blue Velvet when Kyle McLaughlin was standing with the nude and battered Rosellini on the front lawn. Couple of guys from school in a car on the street stop and throw out a comment. Who's that--your mom?

   Been trying to think of a teen movie I could defend. Um. Anyway. The documentary Dogtown and Z Boys fascinated me, although I've never skateboarded, and don't care anything about it. Ghostworld is the closest I can get. The art class was my favorite part. A friend of mine saw it with a Japanese audience, and they didn't laugh at the any of the instructor's remarks, but howled over the students' drawings. Go figure.

   Sometimes offensive comedy is like when Jerry Seinfeld went to talk to a priest about the dentist who became Jewish for the jokes. The priest says And that offends you as a Jew? Jerry says It offends me as a comedian. I get offended by movies that make hard things seem easy. I don't mean over-the-top musicals in which everything glides effortlessly in a frictionless world, but things that portend to relate to real lives. We're all handicapped people, is what I think. So I like things like Raging Bull, and Camille Claudel--things that consider what it costs you sometimes to try really hard. I liked Jerry Seinfeld's "Comedian" documentary, for that humility.

Subject: RE: BS: movies you're supposed to like
From: Sam L
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 08:46 PM

Inspiring movie--Lorenzo's Oil. If parents can go so far for a child, and Nick Nolte can win me over in a movie, anything is possible.