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What is clawhammer style

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Hardiman the Fiddler 02 Mar 00 - 04:28 PM
GUEST, Bryant 02 Mar 00 - 05:44 PM
GUEST,Snakespit 02 Mar 00 - 06:09 PM
Uncle_DaveO 02 Mar 00 - 07:03 PM
Hardiman the Fiddler 02 Mar 00 - 07:14 PM
Stewie 02 Mar 00 - 08:42 PM
Uncle_DaveO 02 Mar 00 - 08:50 PM
Oversoul 02 Mar 00 - 10:36 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 20 Sep 00 - 11:50 PM
GUEST,John Leeder 21 Sep 00 - 01:45 PM
Bill in Alabama 21 Sep 00 - 10:00 PM
GUEST,John Leeder 22 Sep 00 - 01:34 PM
Guy Wolff 22 Sep 00 - 11:07 PM
wysiwyg 15 Jul 01 - 11:26 AM
Uncle_DaveO 15 Jul 01 - 01:50 PM
TishA 16 Jul 01 - 12:30 AM
GUEST 20 Aug 01 - 02:31 PM
DougR 20 Aug 01 - 04:42 PM
GUEST,Dave in England 20 Aug 01 - 09:35 PM
GUEST,Ed_in_SouthCarolina 10 Sep 01 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Julian Currie 26 Jan 22 - 09:40 PM
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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Hardiman the Fiddler
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 04:28 PM

Been enjoying this thread, cause I also play some banjo. Probably I'm not as technical as all the advise in this thread, but the one thing I remember was it was hard to use finger picks for the Scruggs style, and it was hard at first to keep the last two fingers of the right hand anchored on the banjo head while I was learning, so I just strummed the banjo for a while, till I got used to the three finger rolls. In that era, someone informed me I was playing "claw hammer" style, that was news to me! Then an old-timer told me that the style was called claw hammer because you held your hand as though it was a hammer, brushing with the nails, and then lastly catching the fifth string with the thumb, like it was the claw of the hammer. I doubt I do it right, but I liked the advise earlier. The operative word is "play!" good luck. HTF


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: GUEST, Bryant
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 05:44 PM

Great thread. I'm a novice banjo player (I had a friend give me her unused-sitting-in-the-garage banjo) and I only pick it up now and then, when I get burned out on guitar. Anyway, I've got a couple of questions for the experts.

First, I hate finger picks and have pretty much decided to abandon them. Now, I realize that Scruggs style/bluegrass picking almost requires them in order to get that crisp sound. What I'm wondering is whether some (or most) of the old time players (like Uncle Dave Macon, Bascom Lunsford, and Clarance Ashley) played bare fingered. Or did they use finger picks too?

Also, could someone explain in a little more detail how some of those old time players get that "Clipity-clop" sound? On some recordings of Clarance Ashley ("The Coo-coo Bird") it's so clear you'd almost swear someone was playing wood blocks in the background. Does it have to do with where you pluck the strings or how? I've been baffled by this for some time now.

Thanks, Bryant


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: GUEST,Snakespit
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 06:09 PM

Hi:

I started off a great many years ago on banjo, then moved to guitar for most of my life, and a few years ago came back to banjo.

Not an expert, I have done lots of reading & playing, & have enjoyed the thread so far. A couple of notes (pun, get it?): the minstrel-style method was generally called "stroke", or down-picking, and several of the old tutor books are still in print and readily available. If you give your instrument to someone who hasn't played, or to a child, they most often will brush the back of the right hand (nali side) across the strings, from top to bottom (physically, but actually bottom to top in pitch, ie bass to treble - Lord, why are we so perverse in our terminology?), so as far as I can see, the "natural" stroke is that of the clawhammer style.

Both terms have been used interchangeably for many years, and it's only been recently that the definitions have been refined. These days, "frailing" is generally used to describe a kind of chunky, all-fingers stroke, or one which mostly backs up the fiddle player, providing rhythm and adding such melody notes as he/she can find.

"Clawhammer" is more often used to describe a style, part of which is also called "melodic" - more a solo or lead style which Ken Perlmann and many others have developed into a very intricate modern way of playing (paradoxic as that may sound for old-tyme music).

There are also many idiosycracies and personal techniques which provide an endless array of variations on style. There are also dozens of tunings, some quite bizarre, which add an exotic sound to many of the old mountain songs, and echo the origins of those songs in the old modal scales used before "modern" music swept the scene.

The banjo is a fascinating study, and there are some fine recent books I can highly recommend - "Ring the Banjar" and "That Half-Barbaric Twang" are a couple of excellent histories of the instrument from different perspectives. Check the on line booksellers and you'll find them.

Finally, the banjo's fascination is part sound, part history of music and machinery, part social weathervane. There's always more to learn and hear, and the diversity of style and opinion keeps it strong - it's a very democratic instrument. What's important is to play, or to learn, or to observe in your own style and to your own taste.

As has been said to me too many times: "You can tell when the stage is level because the banjo player is drooling from both sides of his mouth".

-


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 07:03 PM

Bryant, you asked about whether the old-time players-- and you mentioned several names--play(ed) with fingerpicks or their own nails. The answer is "generally their own nails."
I'm a relative newbie to clawhammer banjo--a little less than two years. It took me about eight months to get the basic frailing stroke down right. Then within a couple of months thereafter I was able to sing over a rhythmic pattern, and play banjo breaks between verses on a number of the songs. I learned double-thumbing and drop-thumbing, the techniques that are usually thought to distinguish clawhammer from frailing, right along with the early lessons.
Today I'm self-directing (no more lessons), and almost everything I play I've worked out myself from hearing or remembering or imagining a tune; don't use tab to speak of at all.
I should say that I much prefer playing with my own fingernail (middle), but it keeps breaking, so I have to use a pick a good deal of the time.
Oh, and you mentioned, among others, Bascomb Lamar Lunsford. He didn't frail; he used a two-finger up-picking style.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Hardiman the Fiddler
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 07:14 PM

You get the "clipetty, cloppity," by developing a roll---three fingered style---which unfortunately means getting used to using picks. I hated the picks at first. But then, when I got more used to them, I began to love the volume of sound that you could get out of the banjo. Now, I never play without picks. To develop a roll, first you got to remember to keep your two little fingers anchored on the head of the banjo---otherwise your hand goes sailing around all over the place, like a fresh caught trout. Second, you gotta develop a smoothness in the timing of the roll. Start slow, then you can build up speed. I used to use a metronome. Once you built up speed, you can varr syncopate the roll to get the clip clop sound. Hardiman the Fiddler


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Stewie
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 08:42 PM

On the subject of books, I noted a reference to the following recent publication - issued by Mel Bay Publications, with CD: Brad Leftwich 'Round Peak Style Clawhammer Banjo'.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 08:50 PM

Contrary to Hardiman's explanation, the "cluck" is not achieved by a roll, as the Bluegrassers operate, nor does it require picks. The next outboard finger, I'll call it, beyond the stroking finger is kept in position to strike against the next string just after the prime frailing stroke, and the collision of that nail and next string does the job. So I've been told by authorities on Banjo-L, the banjo e-mail distribution list.
The "cluck" is a startlingly hard crack, and for some occasional pieces it can be very interesting. But if a banjoist uses it all the time, as some do, it becomes annoying to the listener. I'd like to learn it one of these days; being told in general how it's done and getting it clear how and internalizing it are different matters.
Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Oversoul
Date: 02 Mar 00 - 10:36 PM

Buy all the old-time genre CD's you can afford and a few basic frailing/clawhammer books. The Bible is by John Burke, an old Oak Publication. Just get a of couple books, however. They get very redundant as this is not rocket science. Then get two banjos. An open-back and a resonator. Mid-grade banjos sound as good as the most expensive, let the buffoons cry foul, this is a fact. Always think of making your banjo wish it was a fiddle. All the rest of the stuff is up to you. Work on dynamics and intonation as you progress, and listen to all sorts of acoustic music from all over the world. There are lots of similar instruments in other cultures which will give you endless inspiration. Trust me and avoid the "technocrats", we all have different types of hands and ears! The type of sound you want to make will emerge with time.


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 11:50 PM

Since my link to this thread in the other clawhammer discussion didn't seem to have much effect, I thought I'd refresh it.

--seed


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: GUEST,John Leeder
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 01:45 PM

Coming in late (as usual), picking up on a few random points:

Another way of hardening the fingernails is to eat lots of Jello and/or take gelatin capsules.

At a Mariposa Festival one year I saw Kyle Creed frail using a finger-pick of his own invention. I've never seen anyone else use a pick.

To muddy the waters a little, there's a guitar finger-picking style called "clawhammer". My former brother-in-law, from England, played what he called the "Regency clawhammer", which he learned while working in Belgium in the '60s. I couldn't describe the style from memory, and he hasn't been my brother-in-law for a lot of years now, so I can't check with him.

I'm also under the impression that some people use "clawhammer" the way others use "melodic clawhammer", i.e., lots of melody notes, less rhythmic, and use "frailing" for the more "brushy", rhythmic style, instead of using "clawhammer" interchangeably with "frailing".

Lastly, does anyone else out there frail with an anchor, i.e., keeping the little finger on the head? By the time that I found out it was impossible (Pete Seeger's book, I think) it was too late to quit. You gain a lot in precision but lose in attack, volume and traditional sound. It's good to have a louder instrument to play this style. (Mine was made by Jake Neufeld and has an old-fashioned bell-brass tone ring.) It works well for the melodic clawhammer style.

The only other person I've seen frailing with an anchor was a bluegrasser trying to demonstrate frailing and, I think, remembering it imperfectly. Am I all alone out here?


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 10:00 PM

John--

I'm certainly not the authority on it, but, in my 35 years of clawhammer playing, I have never seen anyone play old-time banjo with an anchor. I thought I would never break the anchor habit when, after several years as a bluegrass and melodic picker, I decided to learn clawhammer also, but the difference the free right hand makes in the clawhammer playing is worth the trouble. I still play all styles and enjoy them all, but clawhammer is my favorite (probably due to my having grown up in the Appalachians, which gave me an early exposure to that style).

Bill


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: GUEST,John Leeder
Date: 22 Sep 00 - 01:34 PM

With tongue in cheek, I tell people I play "Leeder style" and that I'm the best in the world at it. But I may be the only one as well.


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 22 Sep 00 - 11:07 PM

With 30 years of frailing at square dances and the like someone just lent me a tape with Uncle Dave Macon playing "Down the old Plank road". If you want to hear some great Banjo give a listen to this song.Anything be Clarence Ashley and Lily May Ledford will always inspire me !!!. All the best, Guy


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 11:26 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 01:50 PM

BSeed said:

"Some clawhammer players use finger picks--backwards, of course--"

That's the cart before the horse. Clawhammerers wear the picks with the picking surface over their nail (one of them), as God intended. Bluegrass players are less efficient, and have to use three plus a thumb-pick, probably because they make the mistake of wearing them backward, with the picking surface over the fleshy part of the finger, a great heresy.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: TishA
Date: 16 Jul 01 - 12:30 AM

Great thread. I wasn't here when this discussion began. Glad you brought it back WYSIWYG (Susan isn't it?) I don't play clawhammer, I play two finger style. Most of the things I do are common to clawhammer only I pick up not down. This is the true way as it was ordained by god. Banjo "picking" is what it's called. Clawhammer players call themselves "pickers" but they're doing it all backwards. This is why banjoists are thought of as backwards. As clawhammer was once the predominant banjo style in the southern mountains we who live here have long been thought of as a backwards people by the rest of the world. It's a terrible load of guilt that frailers must carry for all this.

Aside from that..............Friday night Tish & I were listening to a fiddler play one tune after another in 6/8 time. I became fasinated and started working things out as soon as we got home. This ain't too easy with a two finger style! Anybody else doing this either clawhammer or two finger style? I love the sound and feel of 6/8.

I have it on the best authority that God made the fingernails grow out past the end of the finger so that strings could be "picked" upwards as was his plan from before the foundations of the world.

Chip A.


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 01 - 02:31 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: DougR
Date: 20 Aug 01 - 04:42 PM

John in Brisbane: you story about the banjo case gave me my laugh of the day. Great story. Don't know how I missed it in '98.

DougR


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: GUEST,Dave in England
Date: 20 Aug 01 - 09:35 PM

I've just found this thread and have read all the entries for the last year or so and found them very interesting. I'd like to ad a few words into the discussion if I, as an Englishman, can be so presumptious. I believe that 'frailing' 'drop-thumb' 'clawhammer' or whatever one calls this rapping, down-driving style, has developed a mystique around it that is unwarrented. It wasn't, as some people claim, the predominant style in the Appalachians, only one of several regional styles, two-finger picking, was very popular in some regions, as was pre-Scruggs three-finger picking, also,of course, what Pete Seeger called 'up-picking' or 'the basic'strum'. In my experience all these styles have a place and a role to play depending on the song, style, rhythm, needed for any given performance. The good old 'knockdown style' of players such as Cousin Emmy, and Uncle Dave Macon, is great for hell-for-leather songs and square-dance tunes, whereas 'clawhammer' or a more delicate 'drop-thumb' is great for slower pieces such as Clarence Ashley's 'Cuckoo'. 'Up-picking' as performed by Derroll Adams and Buel Kazee is an ideal song-accompanying style. And I find that a simple 'two-finger' style alternating between 'double-thumbing' 'pinching' and the odd 'brush' the perfect accompaniment for slow ballads such as Obray Ramsay's 'Little Margaret'. 'In England the Old Timey community which is growing all the time has become fixated on 'drop-thumb frailing' and very few people use anything else, which is a shame as it means other styles don't get heard and much Old Timey banjo in Britain, and in the U.S. is very samey, this along with the usual line-up of banjo, fiddle and guitar, makes eventually for a rather predictable, boring, repetitive sound. The rule with folkmusic is that there are no rules, traditional players developed their own styles,frequently in isolation from other players, and dependant on type of banjo -fretless (a la Frank Proffitt, resonator-backed - Wade Ward, open-backed fretted etc... musical aptitude, manual dexterity, musical background -did father, grand-father, Uncle play ? Did itinerant black workers pass through area? Standardisation was unknown, there were as many types of banjo (from Seers and Robuck's finest to home-made tack-head banjo's made from catskins, sieves, and a few odd bits of lumber), styles of playing them, ways of singing the songs, variety of tunes and tune varients, as there were people. It's only in the folk revival that we have to pigeon-hole, categorize, and pin-down the music like some butterfly in a museum case. There is no correct version of any tune, only good or bad versions and renditions, there is no 'correct' style of playing the banjo (if it works for you then it's right), and nobody out there, not even Dwight Diller, is any more right than you are.All he can do, and seems to want to do, is to teach his pupils a very specific sub-style as performed by the Hammons family who influenced him as a young man. If you want to sound like Dwight Diller clones then learn from him by all means but you'd be much better off listening to half a dozen, a dozen, or a hundred, traditional and revival banjo players, and synthesising the things you hear into a style or styles that suit your, needs, temperament, instrument, musical needs etc., and then you'll sound like yourself, and one day people will be pulling up outside your house and asking you to show them what you do. A last couple of thought - again, there's no right or wrong when it come to playing with nails, bare-flesh or reversed picks, there are fine banjo players playing in all these styles. People such as Ken Perlman put a small piece of Scotch tape over their nail and tuck it in behind the nail, this seems to last him for several numbers. After years of trying every and anything to stop my nails wearing out I have finally settled on acrylic nails, painted on as a wet cement and which sets rock hard (Martin Simpson uses the same stuff) and can be filed and shaped as short or as long as required, It hasn't quite got the bell-like quality that playing off a natural nail gives, but being virtually indestructable it takes away a whole problem area of playing and allows one to concentrate on the playing and not worry about how long the nail will last. The material is the same as that used for false-teeth plates and if you want some sort of nail cover I recommend it unreservedly. Of course, some people get a great clear sound off the top of their finger/s with hardly any nail at all. Again, there's no right or wrong sound or way of achieving it, it's what works for you. Two of my favourite banjo players are Ron Mullinex (WV), and Art Rosenbaum (GA) - Art, like Mike Seeger, is a fluent player in all the styles mentioned above, and like Mike, has spent as much time as anyone recording, interviewing and listening to the old time players. Wishing all you pickers across the pond the very best, from Dave in England.


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: GUEST,Ed_in_SouthCarolina
Date: 10 Sep 01 - 04:32 PM

I read the following old posting by Bill in Alabama. "I learned the style from a fine gentleman known as Uncle Arthur Kuykendall, who used a "drop-thumb" style in which he used his thumb on all strings rather than just the fifth." I remember Mr. Kuyendall's name when I was living in Huntsville. I think he also taught one the banjoi picker's in the Kingston Trio? Jim Conners? This was several years ago.. e must have been a great banjo picker, his name continues on over the South.


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Subject: RE: What is clawhammer style
From: GUEST,Julian Currie
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 09:40 PM

I know this is WAY out of date but, it is So cool to see people talking about Uncle Arthur kuykendall. That’s my great great grandfather. I learned piano from his daughter(my grandmother) his photo sat above the piano and he watched me learn music as a kid. I heard so many great stories and even visited with the family. He did teach jim Conners.


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