Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 07:31 PM

I have a Trameleuc TR-15 with the SAGA label inside. Number 6037. I bought it around 1985 in Cleveland, Ohio. Anyone know anything about this model, specifically an approximate value? It appears to match the description of the March 11, 2007 post above: "The guitar is a jumbo acoustic, no pickguard, ebony tailpiece, split ivory bridge, rosewood fingerboard with no markers, quilted maple headstock laminate, solid cedar or dark spruce top (incredible cross-grain, and indian rosewood back and sides (beautifully figured. Satin finish...and incredible tone, big, deep without being too bottom heavy. All in all, this guitar is a stunning piece. The soundhole paper is all in french, as it mentions SAGA, though it says St Brieuc France."

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST,Trout'n'Lowden lover
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 04:51 PM

Great to see this site! There is constant controversy about Guy Trameleuc's guitars. Quite simply put, there are the instruments he built at his shop in France and there are far, far more guitars that were made at the SAGA factory in Japan. Trameleuc licensed his name and some of his design ideas for use from about 1985-1991, perhaps a little later. THESE 2 TYPES OF TRAMELEUCS SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED!

I have the great pleasure of owning both an original, limited edition (1 of perhaps 10-20, no one knows for sure), French made Trameleuc AH-10C, from 1990 or so and a Japanese made PAH-10. From contacting his shop in France, thru great difficulty, the entire licensing situation with Japan and Trameleuc was explained to me as well as the great difference in value between the French and Japanese-made guitars. Granted, I might not have gotten it all straight exactly as our conversation was in very broken English thru a very kind woman speaking to Guy, then me.

At the time I got my French instrument I did not know the name, but already owned Lowdens. Yes, Guy's French made guitars are tonally comparable with great string to string separation fingerstylers love, and the attention to detail of his work is exceptional. According to what I was told during that call, he was hoping to make more than 12 guitars in one year, which would have been a first at the time.

As more players discovered his guitars and their great price (his pricing was under 1/2 of similar wood Lowden models when I got mine, now about 20 yrs ago. Like Lowden, he couldn't keep up with orders and sought a licensing deal to have more guitars produced. Whether good or bad, he chose SAGA, while Lowden chose S. Yairi. Though many Trameleuc guitars were made in Japan, the build quality apparently varied beyond his comfort level with wood problems, splitting bridges and incorrectly mounted truss rods that can pull he fingerboard off! He also realized that the Japanese guitars were being confused with his own limited production guitars, which brought the value of his hard work down and conversely brought the value of the surviving Japanese built models up. The confusion between the two has never ended and after problems at his French shop he quit building guitars completely and now only occasionally teaches guitar in workshops in France.

For perspective, his solid cedar topped, solid rosewood cutaway jumbo instrument from 1992 cost just under $2,000 US. The instrument most closely related made in Japan, listed for $700, but was all laminate back & sides, just the top was solid. Most of the Japanese rosewood Trameleucs were laminate constructed, perhaps all, which I was disappointed to find out after buying a PI-15, which I resold with some difficulty within the year as it couldn't compare to the French AH-10C I purchased for well under $1,000 in mint condition.

The bottom line from my own research over 20 years is that Guy Trameleuc French made guitars are very rare (estimates are that he made under 300 guitars total) and likely worth what they are selling them for! There are many Japanese made instruments out there. I've seen 3 PAH-10 guitars used at one music store alone, ranging over about 5 years of production and apparently thousands of serial numbers. The Japanese instruments need to be judged on how they sound and how they've held up, not where they were made. Two examples of one model can sound quite different and some have painfully sharp fret ends, split woods, etc. I have only uTube videos of the few other French instruments out there to compare mine to and I must say they seem exemplary! Mine certainly is the equal of many non-custom Lowdens I've owned and played and was a great value.

We should all be thankful Guy Trameleuc decided to make guitars and feel deeply for him that his often one-of-a-kind guitars get confused with the Japanese SAGA guitars. I tried to reach him again several years ago and though I could not reach him in person, I confirmed he had quit building any guitars after a theft at his shop, perhaps by an assistant and that was the current end of his guitar making story, though he is still alive and kicking from what I can tell.

I hope this clears a few things up for folks. The better SAGA made instruments were considered by one Euro guitar magazine article I found from around 1986 to be in the best guitar under $1,000 range-I can't say they won, but they can be very good players.

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST,paul fairall
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 05:45 AM

I recently picked up a saga made PPI-15EC and have spent considerable time trawling the internet for information on these " legendary " guitars. As mine has a sticker inside saying Saga I e miled them and I very nice chap responded with some limited information and a page from a 1998 brochure showing two guitars but not a single cut a la mine. The text is not clear enough to read sadly.

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST,alan
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 10:46 AM

bonjour je vends une guitare TRAMELEUC PAH-10 E ;mon adresse mail [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Trameleuc (Guy Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 05:31 AM

Hello,
I have a Trameleuc PPI 15EC. The sound it's amazing !
I have a copy of the catalog Saga with all Trameleuc models. If someone is interesting.

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST,GUEST.dave
Date: 17 Mar 15 - 07:04 PM

Well,

After 7 years since last posting on this thread, I still have the PPI-15.
Still going strong, and still hardly any info about these guitars, they really must be a rarity, so I think I'll still be hanging on to this instrument forever probably!

Yes I agree with others, for fingerstyle it's great, especially because of the generous neck width, but for strumming, not the big open sound that some other guitars might have, although as always, sounds are subjective. Anyway, I still love this guitar.

Dave

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST,Guest, Ruedi
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 04:34 PM

Hello,
I got a Trameleuc PP1-15 with no. 9317, SAGA built, in perfect condition. I live in the French part of Switzerland, so language is no problem, but I do not know much about my guitar. The instrument is perfect for fingerstyle, easy to play and the sound is beautiful.
Should anyone have some information about the PP1-15 please pass me a mail to [e-mail]
Bye, Ruedi

Subject: I just ordered one
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 11:37 PM

Cool thread! I just ordered one from ebay that looks exactly like this:

http://elderly.com/items/20U-14266.htm

It's supposed to come on Wednesday. I'll let you know how it sounds.

Steven

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 15 - 04:28 PM

It sounds amazing, a lot like a green label Lowden 010 I used to own. But I like it better actually.

That elderly site above says model TR-20. I can't find mention of that model anywhere else. Anyone else have one of these?

Another one listed here:

http://www.davidcrozierguitars.com/shop/view_product.html?prod=2904

Mine doesn't have a sticker inside. So I'm just seeing if I can get more info. Seems like maybe it was higher end. Or an earlier version. Solid back and sides. 5 piece neck. Eccentric wooden pick guard. Serial stamp says 143.

Thanks!

Steven

saintmilkweed.com

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST,nick penn
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 07:00 AM

i recently purchased a japanese PPI 15EC serial no 9724 late 1980s?)

and am really pleased, i have Martins and Faith as my best guitars and the Trameleuc is certainly up there with them, for fingerstyle, the wider neck is really comfortable and she sings !!!, she is definitely a keeper,

A fellow guitarist plays a Lowden and when we had our regular thursday night session i played his Lowden and the Trameleuc compared very favourably. shame Guy has stopped making, a loss to the luthier world

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 21 - 05:41 AM

I own a Saga PI-15C, stamped 177 on the transferbar and 9518 on the heelblock. I suspect number 9518 to be date of building cos I purchased the instrument around 95/96. I would like to discus these instruments a little further. Do you mind sending me pictures of the guitars if possible please ?? Best regards, Chris

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 10 May 21 - 05:47 AM

I was responding to, "Trout`n'lowden'Lover", in my previous post but any info from others is welcome too. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Tremeleuc (G. Trameleuc) guitars?
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 10 May 21 - 05:51 AM

Any info/pictures, please send to [e-mail]