West Indies 47 all out!

Subject: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 04:23 AM

I watched as the West Indies started their second innings a few runs behind England's first innings total, and then I had to go out. When I returned a little later I switched on to see how they were getting on.

I was a little confused to see Grahme Thorpe saying how good it was to come over and get a good start in the series by winning the first test! I first thought that rain must have stopped play and this was a re-run of some old footage - but no.

One swallow may not make a summer but this result was more than a little incredible........... It's just not cricket.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Lanfranc
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 04:30 AM

I didn't believe in miracles - until now!

Reminds me of the halcyon days of Jim Laker.

Alan

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 04:36 AM

I watched it, and as each wicket went down, I shouted louder each time, with delight.

My wife was saying, "I want to watch something else".

I kept on saying that it would be finished soon - tongue in cheek.

I was gobsmacked. What a cracking result.

What's more it got me in my wife's good books, because she was able to watch what she wanted to.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 06:16 AM

This'll be about calypso then?
John ;-)....Good result

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 07:06 AM

Wooooooooooooooooooo-Hoo!!!
:0)

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 07:34 AM

I'll take the victory quite happily but I am a little concerned about that score. I've not seen any coverage of this game but at test level, generaly speaking such scores either indicate appauling playing conditions or a loss of control/discipline by the batting side (even if there is good bowling as well).

I enjoy contests more than one sided events and as such, although I do want England to win, I hope WI do better in the next match.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 07:48 AM

I think it's just a ply from the WIs - England will take it easy now and we'll get beaten in all the remaining matches.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Flash Company
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 07:49 AM

The Spinners used to do a song which went:-
Sunshine, sunshine, happy day.
Off to the cricket match I'm away,
Somebody else can work for me,
I'm a happy absentee!

Perhaps we could work it up to suit the situation?

FC

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 07:52 AM

The fast bowler's perfect line and length was too good for the West Indies batsmen as they capitulated to their lowest ever Test total of 47.

Harmison became the most successful bowler in Sabina Park history when he took 7-12 as he stunned the home crowd.


When Bob Willis says that the bowling was excellent and Harmison was brilliant, I sit up and take notice.

Don't under rate the English bowling.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 09:19 AM

Incidentally did you know that said Bob Willis included into his name by dead poll, the name Dylan in honour of his great hero (and fellow demon fast-bowler)Bob.

That is true - except for the bit about Bob Dylan being a demon fast-bowler. That is BS (as this thread was intended to be). He is of course an outstanding wicket-keeper.........

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 09:20 AM

No not DEAD poll. That should be DEED poll.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 09:24 AM

More about Robert George Dylan Willis.

http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/PLAYERS/ENG/W/WILLIS_RGD_01001366/

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 09:32 AM

Interesting... a name change based on another name change...

Thanks for the info Villain, as I had said above, I'd not seen any coverage when making my comments. It's good to hear that true world class fast bowling was a big factor.

Jon

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 09:47 AM

I called my son Ewan after a certain Mr McColl, who did a bit of metamorphosing himself.
John

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 12:03 PM

Yes but could he bowl?

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 12:07 PM

At risk of getting the rugby player upset, do you play this game with padding or shirt, shorts and shoes?

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 05:32 AM

Only 47 - and only against the Poms?

I hate to think what Viv Richards would say.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 05:35 AM

I shouldn't laugh too loudly - Australia have just been knocked over by Sri Lanka for 120.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 06:01 AM

Appropriate Dylan Quote?

"The times they are a changing"

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 10:22 AM

I think that maybe 'A Hard Rains Gonna Fall'

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST,WI_respects
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 04:33 PM

dat dun mek it, wha di rass a happen?

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 10:24 AM

Giok - If you named him after Mr Miller, then surely you should have called him - James.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 01:13 PM

A shortage of Jocks and Paddies crowing on this thread? :0)

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 01:58 PM

Robert George Zimmerman Willis?

I hope that the England batsmen have gone out to buy some nice strong crash hats? I suspect that they will need them in the next match and the remaining games in the series.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 10:12 AM

53 for 0 for the windies. Looks a good batting wicket. A draw me thinks. Lots of runs on this wicket.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 10:54 AM

100 - 0

Oh dear

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 10:55 AM

Whoops 100 - 1

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 11:13 AM

Whoops whoops

Harmison at Lunch 7.5 overs 29 runs off him for 3 wickets

Windies 110 - 3

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 07:55 PM

There were lots of stoppages for rain - so I am not sure of the final position. Last time they went off for bad light - it was less than 200 for 8!

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 03:35 AM

Australia have beaten Sri Lanka.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 02:14 PM

WOOOPS!

England were 8 for 2!

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 04:42 AM

'Ere we go again! Mind you, at least we dare play sport against other nations, unlike some countries (no names, no pack-drill) who involve only themselves in a 'sport' and call it The World Series.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST,Ooh -Aah
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 04:38 AM

Not to worry chaps - Thorpy has done his stuff and we're 6-300, almost 100 ahead on a deteriorating pitch.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 05:50 AM

I wonder how much Graham Thorpe has paid Billy Bowden?

He was lbw at least twice in one over!

Perhaps Thorpe is paying to keep umpire Bowden in fancy hats?

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 07:09 PM

It looks as if the England team are in great danger of winning this one too.........

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:07 AM

I have a very strong opinion about LBW.

When I was an umpire, the batsman always got the benefit of the doubt.
Its too easy to lift that finger.
I can remember one very good slow bowler, appealing for LBW 3 times in one over. I gave not out each time. At the end of the over, he came up to me and quitly asked why I hadn't given the batsman out.
I replied, that when he bowled he stood right in front of me, so that I was unable to see what happend once the ball pitched. He thanked me and from that time on he made sure that I had clear vision of the ball pitching.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 05:43 AM

A short explanation - before someone asks.

lbw = Leg Before Wicket.

In very simple terms it is when the unpire considers that the ball would have hit the wicket and been out - but for hitting the batsman's leg, first.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 06:29 AM

Yes but it is a lot more complex than that.
The umpire has to firstly determine the following.

Did the ball hit the pads first outside the line of stumps on the offside, if so did the batsman offer a stroke. If he did not and in the opinion of the umpire the ball would have hit the wicket.

Did the ball hit the pads first outside the line of stumps on the legside, then the batsman is not out.

If the batsman is right back on his stumps, it makes the job a lot easier, becuase you can clearly judge if the ball would have hit the stumps.
The way that the wicket has been behaving the way it has, then the batsman would need to be on the backfoot, for me to be able to give them out.

If the batsman is on the front foot, that is a lot more difficult to judge.

If somebody is bowling at 90mph, it is extremely diffcult to make positive decisions. As so often happens, a batsman is given out LBW, when in actual fact it was a no ball, because the bowlers foot has gone over the pop in crease and the umpire hasn't picked it up.
To pick that up and then have time to judge where the ball pitched and where the ball would end up, is so difficult.

Slow Mo makes it so easy to make a decision, when you are sitting snugly in your armchair.

It is my firm belief that all LBW appeals should be referred to the 3rd umpire, with feedback to the umpire at the wicket, who then makes the decision.

Any doubt, not out.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 07:25 AM

Strollin' Johnny,

The "World" referred to in "The World Series" is part of a name of a newspaper that originally sponsored the event.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 07:56 AM

Not true, Teribus.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 08:26 AM

I'm not sure on that Villain. Some cases seem so clear that even the bowler knows when he appeals and bowlers at times can be a bit over-zealous in their appealing. I fear time wasting more than anything if 3rd umpire made every decision.

On the other hand I don't know how an umpire does his job. You could add someone maybe snicking a ball with the bat to your equation... And that could bring us on to catches...

Tell me one thing: Why do we have the different rules for in line, leg side, and off side for LBW.

Jon

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 09:07 AM

Thanks Guest Ed,

If what it says in Snopes is indeed fact, then considering that Baseball is played in a number of countries, Canada, Cuba, Japan, etc. The different "leagues" in the United States of America have got a damn nerve calling themselves the world's champions, without allowing the participation of teams from other countries.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 01:08 PM

Jon
Do you know that is a crcking question. Do you know?

I can only assume the following two reasons.

Negative bowling down the leg side

The other is that a bowler tends to run along the leg side area of the right handed batsmans batting area, and therefore is always going to be rough, which is unfair for right handed batsman.

I will investigate and come up with an answer.

But you will have to come to the Market Rasen Folk Club on Friday to find out the answer. :-)

Les

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Ed.
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 04:29 PM

Why do we have the different rules for in line, leg side, and off side for LBW.

Interesting question, Jon.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that:

The batsman's legs are normally positioned outside of the leg stump. If LBW was allowed 'as long as it would hit the stumps' you'd get bowlers, bowling 'round the wicket' yorkers, that would have teams out for 15

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 05:40 AM

Oh by the way - The England team did win the second test too!

Am I the only one to remember tours where the West indies team would win the series 5 - 0? And without breaking sweat. What is happening?

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 09:07 AM

Shambles, I think successes come and go anyway, but part of the WI decline has been said to be down to increased attractions of other sports. I think it also fair to suggest that in more recent years, England have been improving...

I'd guess that several of us in this thread would remember say an opening line up of Desmond Haynes and Gordon Greenidge, then horror of horrors for the opposition Viv Richards to follow... or bolwers like Michael Holding or Malcolm Marshall... and maybe throw in Clive Lloyd for good measure.

Jon

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 09:20 AM

My knees are knocking at the thought :-)

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 12:53 PM

I suppose that even now a good knock or two from Brian Lara, will make all the difference. But the England bowlers do seem to have gotten the measure of him (so far and touching all the wood I can find).

Would they only have been more convinced of this by Lara putting himself down in the batting order for the second innings?

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 04:42 AM

Why do we have the different rules for in line, leg side, and off side for LBW?

Some evil-minded people might suggest that it goes back to the days when Pommie batsmen couldn't deal with Bill O'Reilly's leg spin. Can't do very well with Shane Warne, either.

Now, how well do Aussie batsmen play off-spin? They can't, much.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 02:18 AM

I suppose that even now a good knock or two from Brian Lara, will make all the difference. But the England bowlers do seem to have gotten the measure of him (so far and touching all the wood I can find).

What wise soul wrote that?

As the Windies in their first innings in the final test match, are 500 and rising and Brian Lara already has made a triple century!

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 03:07 AM

The wicket is a good batsmans wicket, and the boudaries are short, making runs build up quickly.
A draw already on the cards.
If the English bowlers are finding it tough, just wait until the Windies bowlers get hammered.
I think the only difference between this match and the previous tests is the wicket.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 10:47 AM

The wicket will make the most difference, but the English batsmen will still have to deal with the fact that they are the only ones who can lose the match. Bowlers, even fielders, can make multiple mistakes but a batsman sometimes only gets one chance.

I think a draw is the most likely result, but at least it proves that the three wins we have had haven't been over third-class opposition.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 12:27 PM

The wicket and the size of the ground are factors but let us not take anything away from where the credit is due.

10 years ago Brian Lara broke the record and he has just taken it back again. The only batsman whoose name appears in the test match top scoring list twice - first and third.

Thank goodness for the sake of the England team, that there IS only one Brian Lara.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 03:30 PM

What are the English batsmaen doing. I forgot the other factors apathy and tiredness. Cant blame the wicket for being 60 -3

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Ed.
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:55 PM

To the tune of: "Go West", by Jacques Morali/Henri Belolo/John Willis:

Three nil, to the Engerland, three nil to the Engerland (ad infinitum)

We did pretty well, I think.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 03:59 AM

Ed: despite the common appreciation, and the media's insistance of still calling this "England", can we please remember that it is the England & Wales cricket board which sent the team out there.

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 05:00 AM

Well done England 3 - 0. I think Windies made a big mistake batting for so long. It stopped them winning. It was still a very good track at the end.

Nigel
Does the team go out to these countries called England and Wales?. Which emblem do they wear?

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST,van
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 02:02 PM

They wear a rose but have been known to use the odd Scot. If you're good enough you play for England as we can't really put a decent side together (at cricket, football & now rugby - before anyone reminds me).

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 01:09 AM

So is it back to the old argument.
Merge them all together and call it

UK Cricket team
UK Rugby team
UK Football team

Subject: RE: West Indies 47 all out!
From: GUEST,Ooh- Aah
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 06:53 AM

Sod that, England is England. If the others want a game with us they're welcome. WE aren't all bitter and twisted about the past!