BS: UFOs do not exist!

Subject: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 10:04 PM

FIRE OFFICERS GUIDE TO DISASTER CONTROL
Chapter 13 - Disaster Control and UFOs
The following excerpt appeared in Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster
Control by William M. Kramer and Charles W. Bahme. It is copyright
(c) 1992 by Fire Engineering Books & Videos. 641 pages; ISBN 0-912212-
26


Below is the text from Chapter 13 of the Fire Officer's Guide to
Disaster Control dealing with none other than UFOs. On the surface,
it might appear to be the author's life-long interest in the subject
of UFOs, but something very much more important is going on here.
This manual is a national guide used by many local fire officials in
disaster planning, and it is also approved by FEMA (Federal Emergency
Management Act). With all of the denial by official military channels
of the reality of UFOs, it surprises us to see that a manual with so
much information would even broach the subject of UFOs in such
an "official" way. Although this chapter is not an "official"
proclamation of UFOs, it serves to show how seriously this subject
may be taken by some in official positions of the government,
including FEMA.

Although the 1942 aerial attack by UFOs is glossed over by many UFO
researchers, it appears to have created quite an impression on the
author of this manual.

As many of you will recall, the Air Force took a considerable amount
of heat from the UFO research community following the closure of
Project Blue Book, with a training manual that was used at the Air
Force Academy, one chapter dealing with UFOs. Following strong
protests, the Air Force ordered the manaul revised to remove this
chapter. This chapter is much like the material below.

http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/fireguid.htm

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Peace
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 10:17 PM

I'm a bit lost, Foolestroop, as to the point you're making. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 10:27 PM

Very interesting article. I've seen much of this info before, and it's out there for anyone who cares to look. As they say in the article, "For readers who already have made up their minds that there is no such thing as a UFO notwithstanding the overwhelming evidence to the contrary..." there is NO evidence that will prove convincing, short of a direct encounter of their own with such a phenomenon.

That they see it that way is an indication of an emotional preference, not a rational response. I await the postings of such individuals with resignation.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 10:30 PM

I think that UFOs exist, 'cause alien intelligences must need a good laugh now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 11:08 PM

And this is the place for that.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Peace
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 11:26 PM

If this is about do they or do they not exist, I see. Of course. The real question is, "Who sent them."

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 11:27 PM

From that article: "By 1974 over a score of astronauts saw and photographed UFOs during their flights beyond the earth's atmosphere.

"Early in the Apollo 11 mission, which culminated in the moon walk, astronauts Neil Armstrong, Edwin Aldrin, and Michael Collins reported sightings of what seemed to be a UFO during the first half of their flight to the lunar surface. There were many more sightings by U.S. and Soviet Astronauts. On November 11,1966, Gemini XII astronauts Jim Lovell and Edwin Aldrin said that they saw four UFOs linked together, and on October 12, 1964, three Russian astronauts aboard Voskod reported that they were surrounded by a "formation of fast-moving disc-shaped objects."(45) "

Any answers? Wolfgang? Anybody?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 12:44 AM

Of course there are no UFO's. Our government has identified them and so therefore, by definition, they are not "Unidentified".

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: weerover
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 01:27 AM

UFOs do exist. If an object is observed in the sky and not identified, then it is an unidentified flying object. I happen to have seen one, but I make no other claim than that it is a flying object which I have not been able to identify.

wr.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 02:24 AM

Quick segue here- AlaskaMike, is there any chance you'll come to the Alaska Folk Festival next week? Would love to see and hear you again.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:34 AM

Of course UFOs exist, wher do you think jOhn comes from, earth ?
eric

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:26 AM

Personally, I don't believe that Life originated on Earth. I think that we're what happened when an intergalactic picnicing group didn't pick up their litter.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:49 AM

since UFO is by definition an "unidentified Flying Object" I am sure they exist. Whether such UFO's are of terrestrial origin or not is open for debates - but UFO's exist - be sure of it.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:45 AM

U.F.O. = Uncontrollable Farting Orifice.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:49 AM

Oh sure, that's what it is by definition...but you know that's not what we mean.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Pied Piper
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 11:23 AM

Yawn
Yawn
ZZZZZZzzzzzz
PP

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM

We bore each other mutually on this subject... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 12:07 PM

What ? - up my definition of a U.F.O. ?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 01:33 PM

oh, sure they exist! The reason they are not more widely seen anymore is because Hiram can't build 'em as fast as he could in the 50s & 60s...here is his latest, which will be aloft as soon as he gets the door in the barn enlarged!

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 06:18 PM

No, I mean Pied Piper bores me. He figures he already knows everything worth knowing about. He is to conventionality what Britney is to fluff.

I think Hiram's efforts to build a flying saucer are really cute. I hope he succeeds in getting airborne at some point. He should look into helium balloons or something.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 07:06 PM

From the looks of it, I think he should look into a good bunch of mash and a solid copper worm.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 07:46 PM

As stated earlier. UFOs exist. If you see a flying object which you cannot identify, be it a weather balloon or a secret test verion of a stealth craft, then it is, to you, a UFO.

Of course, if a spaceship does/will/has appeared in our sky, then that is what is normally accepted as a UFO.

However, in the past, (Such as in the film/radio-prog/book "The War of the Worlds") Mars was seen to emit green beams, the trails of spaceships, which landed on Earth, containing Martians. These, by very definition, are NOT UFOs. They have been identified.

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:17 PM

UFO's DO EXIST!!!!

I saw one. It was in 1972 and I was with a girl by the name of.... nevermind... and we were parkin' (don't ask...) about 1/4 miles form the Potomac River between Great Falls and Lagley, Va and saw a flying saucer. No it weren't danged swaqmp gas. It was a flying saucer. We saw it clearly for at least 15 seconds before tree's blocked our vision. After a few "Wow's" and "Far out's" we left it alone until the floowing day and then compatred notes and each made a drawing of what we remembered seeing and we...

...saw a UFO...

And I'm willing to be strapped to a poligraph of go unner hypnosis at any doubter's expense to prove it''''
\
UFO'S DO EXIST!!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:21 PM

Polygraph?? Hypnosis? To PROVE something???

That's funnier than the Euphemism thread!

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:50 PM

You win, Clinton.

I withdraw the offer but, hey...

...UFO'S EXIST...

Wanta bet???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:53 PM

Bobert, if it was near Langley you can bet the CIA was involved somehow.

My brother once tossed an entire case of Ripple into the Potomac from the bank nearest the Pentagon. Maybe what you saw was the Ghost Of Ripple?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:41 PM

Come on, Rap... Iz been around... I know a bottle of Ripple from a UFO...

Hey, I din't say that the UFO contained green folks... Heck, maybe George Bush, Sr. was driving the flying saucer? Ain't fir me to tell who was drivin' since 1/4 miles is a tad bit far to distinguish between Pappa Bush and a green man... All Iz sayin' is what I saw!

And, BTW, I wish I hadn't. It's much easier being on the "Yeah, sure you did..." side of the equation....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:55 PM

Bobert, I ain't denying you saw what you saw. And long about the time you were seeing it, I was fixin' to get married in Silver Spring (1973, actually). I don't think the two are connected, though.

And if it was 1972, my brother was stationed at NSA at Ft. Meade instead of at Ft. Myer, where he tossed the Ripple.

I still betcha the CIA was involved, though.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:12 PM

Okay, Rap, I wasn't gtonna tell you this but now if you promise to keep it a secret then I will...

... but the girl, Lisa (no last name fir obvious reasons) father was an uppity up in the CIA and so like she told him about what we'd seen and like a couple days after it she wouldn't so much as even talk wid me, let on tell me nuthin'. Since then, I'z decided that maybe them UFO's ain't from some far away planet but maybe somethin' that our own government is into.

I donno... All I know, is that I saw the danged thing so close that the following day I drew a piccure of it and before Lisa hooked up with her CIA dad, she said it was exactly what she remembered as well...

Now Clinton says that if the ol' Bobert were to be strapped up to a poloygraph that wouldn't prove nuthin' an' it prolly wouldn't but Iz withdrawin' my withdrawl none the less. Same with the hypnosis stuff.

There is UFO's and I know it...

...and if any Catter wants to put up the $$$ fir the poligraph and hypnosis, I'm game...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Amos
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:18 PM

Bobert:

Nah, I believe you just as you is, pal. There are folks who investigate and tabulate these things, and if you want to contact them, I think Whitley Streiber knows where to get in touch with them. I have no explanations and am buffaloed by the apparent mismatch of -phenomena on this subject.

A

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:33 PM

'buffaloed' ... new verb to me ... I like it ... what does it mean?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:43 PM

Well, Amos, then if there ain't no substantial group o' folks who don't know that these UFO's exist then why it it that when you say you saw one then you get a room full o' raised eyebrows? I've told my story, which it ain't, and get the same reaction every time. 'Bout 20 years ago I just figured that I couldn't tell the "event sighting" any more becuase folks immedidiately start talkin' 'bout the medications that I might have come in contact with...

Now, I find that condescending...

Okay, unlike Marion Berry, I has done some drugs, this ain't got nuthin' to do with that any more than my past drug use has with a possibility that I have just created the Madcat community in my mind and that it doesn't exist... Which, of course, it prolly does... I think.....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 01:04 AM

Bobert - You get a room full of raised eyebrows because people are comfortable in their usual opinionated little rut and they don't want to be disturbed. They are also eager to show you that they are smarter and more in the know than you are...a common character flaw of almost all homo sapiens, including me, is this desire to show others that one is smarter and more in the know... :-)

Yes, I have also seen some unusual stuff.

Humility is a very tough challenge. To give serious consideration to something you have never given serious consideration to before...and actually LISTEN to someone else with respect while they tell their unusual story...demands humility.

Anyone got any? I'm working on it by degrees myself.

Humility is not weakness. Quite the contrary. It is only found in people with great inner strength. I've met a handful of such people in my life...probably less than five at this point. Most people are so busy defending their precious little ego and winning precious little victories with it that they wouldn't dream of daring the challenges of humility. Just watch 'em.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Kaleea
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 01:37 AM

Oh, uh huh, DUH! UFO's Do exhist, cuz Elvis dun tol' me last weekend when he & his little green friends were visiting me. Geez!
But seriously, folks. Speaking of astronauts,
Ebbie----
   a few years back I saw an astronaut on TV who had put together a book of the experiences of himself & other astronauts & cosmonauts re UFO sightings. Anyone ever read the book? Anyone recall the title of it? I never got around to finding it, but would sure like to read it.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:02 AM

I've met so many reliable people at this point who HAVE seen such unidentified craft, including professional airline pilots and military people...that I regard those who categorically deny something they don't themselves have any direct experience with to be as silly as people who DO believe that they were talking to Elvis and his little green friends at Walmart on the weekend.

There are, of course, no such people. But professional scoffers love trotting out such inane fictional examples of superstition in order to ridicule others over UFO's when the subject comes up. That they do so is arrogant in the extreme.

It's as arrogant as Christian missionaries coming to the Americas in the 1500's to "save" (or burn) the poor "heathens"...who also knew about some things that the Christians didn't know about or give any credence to.

- Little Hawk

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:41 AM

LH has the rights of it, Bobert. People will do a LOT to defend the perimeter of their reality, and one of the first things they will do is cast aspersions at foreign ideas -- especially ones which rattle the cage. Nothing rattles the cage more than the notion of visitations from other planets by weirdoes in high speed vehicles. It rattles the whole spectrum -- church, military, academic, scientist -- to the toes.

That's what raises all them eyebrows.

As far as the data itself, though, I honestly don't know what to make of it. Streiber, for example, raises points that look absolutely untenable AND absolutely unassailable in ways as well. Leaves me scratching my head and feeling like free dummy.

"Buffaloed" means sort of stalled, confused, uncertain which way to proceed. Not sure where it comes from but I have known it since a child.

A

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:48 AM

"Buffaloed"? It's a good expression. It may have derived from the way that bison themselves became very confused when shot from a distance by long range guns. They were "buffaloed", and tended to stand around in confusion, not sure which way to proceed. This allowed buffalo hunters to shoot hundreds of them down in a liesurely fashion...for money. It was typical of this idiotic profit-driven civilization we live in. I think it's the people here who are the "weirdos", rushing around on their jetskis and snowmobiles in a useless fashion and ruining the tranquility of nature.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:53 AM

The American HEritage offers:

TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: buf·fa·loed, buf·fa·lo·ing, buf·fa·loes
1. To intimidate, as by a display of confidence or authority: "The board couldn't buffalo the federal courts as it had the Comptroller" (American Banker). 2. To deceive; hoodwink: "Too often . . . job seekers have buffaloed lenders as to their competency and training" (H. Jane Lehman). 3. To confuse; bewilder.

ETYMOLOGY: Italian bufalo or Portuguese or Spanish búfalo, from Late Latin bfalus, from Latin bbalus, antelope, buffalo, from Greek boubalos, perhaps from bous, cow. See gwou- in Appendix I.
WORD HISTORY: The buffalo is so closely associated with the Wild West that one might assume that its name comes from a Native American word, as is the case with the words moose and skunk. In fact, however, buffalo can probably be traced back by way of one or more of the Romance languages through Late and Classical Latin and ultimately to the Greek word boubalos, meaning "an antelope or a buffalo." The buffalo referred to by the Greek and Latin words was of course not the American one but an Old World mammal, such as the water buffalo of southern Asia. Applied to the North American mammal, buffalo is a misnomer, bison being the preferred term. As far as everyday usage is concerned, however, buffalo, first recorded for the American mammal in 1635, is older than bison, first recorded in 1774.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:54 AM

If they don't exist, then why do we know about them?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:05 AM

Bruce - Ah, now that is a worthy question! Actually, everything we know about exists...on some level, but not necessarily on a physical level. The moment you know about something it exists...on your own mental level...as a form of active energy called "thought". And thoughts have power.

In the case of UFO's, though, they do appear to exist on a physical level, despite the eagerness of skeptics to discount other people's experiences out of hand.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:27 AM

The notion of UFO's doesn't necessarily rattle the cage of a scientist. Imagine the fame and glory that would come to the first scientist to offer actual physical proof of extraterrestrial life (let alone visitation of us by it). While there certainly are professional scoffers, a true scientist would require physical evidence that UFOs have actually visited Earth. Think about forensics for a moment - it is virtually impossible to enter a room spend any amount of time there, and exit without leaving some physical evidence - a hair, a fiber, a fingerprint.... Although extraterrestrials have been "reported", "viewed", even reportedly interacted with, the physical evidence is still lacking. Believe me I'd love to see it. I am convinced we are not alone in the universe. I hope that I live to see the physical proof of life beyond earth. But, we sure don't have it yet.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:28 AM

Kaleea--I think Buzz Aldrin may have been the UFO astronaut...*grin*...he sure was ...ummm...'confident' about it.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM

I too have had one closeup experience with an unexplained sighting. I don't necessarily make the jump to believing these craft are extra-terrestrial. There are so many things on this earth that we don't know or understand that I'm prepared to consider the idea that this is another of them.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:56 AM

I have to endorse the scientific approach. I'm perfectly willing to adjust my scepticism if anyone ever produces evidence. Scientific evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:03 PM

Personally, I've always thought it the height of hubris to think we're the only "intellingent" life forms in a galaxy too big to even count the stars within it.

I read a wonderful book "Childhood's End" by Arthur Clark, which I heartily recommend to one and all. I don't want to spoil the story for those who take my recommendation, but I will say that there was good reason why the aliens in the book didn't show themselves for a long time to the locals...and you'll understand when you read this.

I also have a few theories about why people seem often so quick to dismiss the possiblity of UFOs. I've talked with the daughter of a man who worked on the Blue Book project for many years until it was disbanded. From what she said, the reason for abandoning the project had to do with too MUCH information rather than too little. I think it scared the bejiggers out of a lot of people who could only see the "threat" over the possibilites of what was going on around us.

But this is, as Amos said, a hot topic much like religion and politics. People build their faith on certain structures that feel safe and comfortable to them. What could be more of a loose cannon than something, or someone we may not be able to see, or may not want to communicate with us until they think WE'RE civilized enough??

That they may well have helped themselves to a few specimens to examine doesn't particuarly bother me, in the light of our own research with "inferior" species. It's all pretty relative really. Being a lab rat for some aliens may just be the kind of lesson in humility Little Hawk might promote! I'd think of volunteering, if for no other reason, to ask them if William Shatner is one of ours or one of theirs..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:25 PM

The whole book? How impressive.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 01:15 PM

Ellenpoly:

Shatner is a lower form of life. WHen he dioes his body is going to be donated toi science so they can study his brain to determine if it reveals the boundary conditions between simian and sapiens.

A

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Damon
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 02:16 PM

http://www.alienobserver.com/

Try this site for 'evidence'. Check out the face mask on Mars...weird!!

damon

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 02:42 PM

Amos:

Shatner is beyond words. Just ask Little Hawk.

Brucie

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist!
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 03:08 PM

Oh, yeah, that famous Martian face.   Seems like the Christian fundamentalists at NASA bombed it.


For a whole passle of years, pert near as long as I've been able to think about it, I've believed that there are other intelligent beings Out There. Statistically I think that it approaches certainty. But whether or not they've actually come a-visitin' is another story.

I'd say that there's a 50% chance that they have.

I'd like to meet them if they come around again, sit down and chat, have a beer with them, maybe play or listen to a little music. Good way to get to know people, and the mathematics of music should transcend linguistic barriers.