BS: composting pet waste?

Subject: BS: composting pet waste?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 08 May 04 - 04:31 PM

This really falls under the "total BS" category, but it's a serious question. I am certain that I've seen in a catalogue somewhere a listing for a "cat litter composter"- something that sits on the ground at the edge of the property, into which you can put kitty's waste products and let it go back to the earth, rather than wrapping it in plastic and sending it to the dump. No matter how I search, all I can find on the web is advice not to put cat feces into my regular compost pile.
Help?

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Helen
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:11 PM

We are obviously on the same wavelength, Allison, because I have been thinking about this problem this week. (Maybe we need to fine-tune the wavelength a bit so that we can relay telepathic messages about something a little more genteel than cat-poop? ;->   )

My hubby found a cat litter composting product on the 'Net a couple of weeks ago although he did say it was expensive. He's not here right now but I'll ask him when he gets back home.

I did a search on Google for

cat litter compost

and there are some interesting forums and discussions on it, but so far (still looking at the results) I haven't found any mention of a composting system except making sure that the compost maintains a high temperature by turning it and aerating it regularly, but you would have to guarantee that the temperature was high in the spot where the cat poop was in the pile. Another suggestion is to use the compost only on trees and shrubs and not on vegetables and fruits, and also use it away from any water supply (a well, a stream, etc) to prevent contamination from any nasty bacteria & parasites.

Hubby & I have discussed having a separate cat-poop compost but haven't gotten around to setting it up yet. At the moment we have 4 kittens and two adults females so the kitty litter has been working overtime, but we are delivering two of the kittens today to their new home (if I don't completely break down - how can anyone survive giving away their babies? It's hard enough giving away kittens!).

Another little piece of trivia: in one of the forum discussions someone said that by putting the used kitty-litter where she knew there had been mice it sent the mice packing because they could smell the cats nearby. Could be a money-making prospect here: selling used kitty litter as vermin-repellants. You'd have to have a signed contract to replace old stuff with newer, riper stuff every couple of weeks. :-)

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:24 PM

We use Feline Pine which breaks down into a sort of sawdust after the pee in it. The bag says after you clean out the poo, you can "scoop, flush, and use as mulch." We've got five adult cats with four boxes and only have change them once per week with this product; we also don't have to use as much as traditional litter and the cats like it!

Rog was wondering why the poo couldn't be used; then, wondered what would grow best with it as a fertiliser...we all agreed it'd have to be...catnip!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Helen
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:25 PM

This site has a neat suggestion for digging a sewage pit especially for pet waste, regularly adding some Septo-Bac which helps to get the sewage breakdown started, and placing a plank over the top. Looks like a good system to me. Further down the page there is more advice on how to do it. One person dug a hole and buried a garbage can with the bottom cut out of it.

Pet Waste Composting

There are also some commercial composting products mentioned.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:31 PM

We use a wheat-based cat litter that is totally flushable....

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: GUEST,emily rain
Date: 08 May 04 - 07:07 PM

pets can carry diseases that are infectious to humans, so it's important to be sure you're using a composting method that will kill germs and parasites. you can either get the pile really hot for a few days, or age it two years or more before using the dirt (which deprives bad bugs of their living hosts, so they die out on their own).

i don't have any direct experience with composting pet poop, per se, but on a tangentially related note i set up a sawdust toilet system in my house TODAY. talk about being on the same wavelength! :) i plan to compost the dog's deposits in there, too. see jerry jenkins' book "the humanure handbook", or visit www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.html.

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 04 - 07:28 PM

There is a song "Flea enterprise" on the album:
BEDLAM CATS
Cindy McQuillin, Dr. Jane, Margaret Davis, Kristoph Klover, Patrick McKenna & Sharon Williams: Cass 11
A collection of songs about their favorite cats...you'll probably find your own kitty in here too. From wry humor to the eerie.
Catbox Blues, Bella Chow, Kitty cst "Z", Lap Top Unit, Cats Are Not Graceful, A Familiar Beast, Milk to Feed the Cat, Autumn Cats, Kitten's Blood, When Kittens Call, Bedlam Cats, Flea Enterprise Night Mewslc, Cats, Skitter Skat Cat, Black Cat Blues, Only Human, The Cat Who Warps By Herself, Cats in the Dawn, Top Cat Rap.

...which tells of the attempt to commercialise the by-products of feline ownership. The chorus:
"Oh, cats they shed
and cats they throw up.
Cats, they defecate & spray.
And I'm going to be a multi-millionaire
The day that I can make these products pay"

... seems to sum up the matter beautifully


Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 08 May 04 - 07:51 PM

Nigel! You've turned this into a music thread! Brilliant!

Wonderful research and advice, folks. Helen, I was thinking of you this week as I listened to Alain Stivell- how that transmogrified into cat poop I'll never know!

My 2 spoiled cats have gotten so used to scoopable litter, I wonder how they'd adapt to pine or wheat? Flushing seems like a good idea. Wonder how the septic system would like the stuff (not the poop, but the pine or wheat)...

must ponder some more.

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Helen
Date: 08 May 04 - 08:11 PM

Well, this pit idea looks pretty simple. The hardest part is digging a hole and finding a suitable plank or lid. You have to throw a bucket of water in there and top up the Septo-Bac every now and then but other than that it is just lift the lid and throw the cat-poop away. The end result is a liquid which seeps back into the soil.

I'm going to tell Hubby about it and see if I get a result - i.e. a hole in the backyard somewhere.

Allison, I can't see an immediate connection between Alan Stivell and cat poop either, but I've been thinking of you lately too and wondering how you are.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 08 May 04 - 08:11 PM

Teach them to go on the toilet - it can be done. A friend in my church has taught 10 cats to do it so far.

Septic systems would probably handle organic litter, but of course don't put the clay stuff in. Really much of that shouldn't find it's way into the toilet regardless of the sewer system.

Really though, just how many cat do you have that their waste is an issue?

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 04 - 01:54 AM

You should have done a search before starting a new thread--we've been discussing this on a compost thread that is already running for a week or two. You can compost pet waste. It just depends on how you compost and if you have cats, what kind of litter you're using.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 May 04 - 02:47 PM

The Other Compost thread

More informative, and possibly worth letting this thread die for. Then you can compost the thread!   ; )

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Helen
Date: 09 May 04 - 05:03 PM

SRS,

The issue about used cat litter in the compost is bacteria & parasites which can be transferred to humans from cat poop. It's not just a question of whether the litter material or the poop will compost but whether it will contaminate vegetables & fruit, or nearby water sources.

We could transfer this discussion to the other thread, but the whole issue would have to be transferred into it and it is on a slightly different slant to general composting discussions.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 04 - 12:24 PM

"Teach them to go on the toilet - it can be done. A friend in my church has taught 10 cats to do it so far." Tell us more Blackcatter. That friend must be a miracle worker of some kind.

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 May 04 - 12:52 PM

McGrath barely beat me to it. A few years ago it was "quite the thing" to teach your cats to "toity in the toity." You could get a kit consisting of a small transparent plastic "cup" that sat on the porcelain under the seat. Sprinkle a little litter in it, and show it to the cat. As they get accustomed to it, gradually reduce the amount of litter, and when it's all gone, take the plastic out.

You might find the "training kit" at some pet shops even now. Some people just used Saran wrap for a homemade version. (Just be sure to remove the Saran if you have guests - it's a nasty party prank.)

But they never taught one to pull the little handle to flush after.

John

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: mg
Date: 10 May 04 - 01:32 PM

There has to be a way to keep animal waste out of the garbage can but composting it for use later on gardens is not a good idea..it is horrible. I would consider burying it underneath evergreens, ornamentals etc. but would never ever let it touch food. This is an issue we really need to discuss. As well as how we treat human waste. There is a difference in animals that are carnivores vs. herbivores, which would be much safer. Kitty litter does not belong in our garbage, nor do baby diapers, elder diapers etc. I think we probably should look at incineration if burying is not healthy. We are setting up epidemics with what we do with our garbage. We fret and fret when stuff is not biodegradabe...that is the safe stuff (if it truly is). The biodegradable stew we are creating is something we should be having nightmares about. mg

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 04 - 02:26 PM

I can't see any of our cats putting up with that kind of stuff. It's enough to drive a cat with spirit to use the carpet instead.

Maybe American cats are different.

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Cluin
Date: 10 May 04 - 03:23 PM

It's good to have a hobby.

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 04 - 03:28 PM

I think there is a lot of old information and bias going into this question, involving herbivore vs. carnivore droppings. I'll report back later with some citations.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 10 May 04 - 04:20 PM

Prevailing wisdom is that you not compost animal feces unles it is a totally herbivorous species (Cow, Sheep, Horses)We bag it and let the trashmen deal with it but i would be interested if there is another method that is more environmentally sound. Neil

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: emily rain
Date: 10 May 04 - 04:48 PM

go to the humanure link!!!

http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.html

surf around until you find the full text of the book, and then just start reading. of particular interest are the many references to "fecophobia", jenkins' own word for fear of poop. yes, there are diseases that can be transmitted through improper handling of human, dog, cat, bird, and other poop. no, that doesn't mean we need to bury it in a trench on another planet. it just means we have to think about it a little and take some care in what we do with our own excretions.

sorry if i sound like an evangelist... i am, kind of. :)

i'm having a little problem with my system i set up in my house a few days ago. it smells slightly, and not so nice. the funny thing is, the smell isn't coming from what you think; it's coming from the peat moss that i'm using as a cover material. who ever heard of stinky peat moss? i'm going to start mixing in some pine needles and see if that doesn't help.

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Cluin
Date: 11 May 04 - 12:12 AM

What a shitty thread.


Well, someone hadda say it...

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 May 04 - 12:51 AM

Emily - the peat moss might be reacting with something else in your pile.


And John is correct in the method. It takes time, and of course, the younger the cat the better. The kit my friend uses is a white plastic with removeable concentric ovals. It rests on the top of the toilet between the basin and the seat. You start with the whole thing with litter in it. You then occasionally remove the circles so that the cat gets used to perching on the seat and going in the toilet.

It just takes time and a "trainable" cat.



"Anyone who doesn't understand protocol, has never dealt with a cat."
            - Robert Heinlein.

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 04 - 01:37 AM

Peat moss is actually not such a great amendment if you're doing organic gardening. My man Howard Garrett recommends against using it because it's lifeless when you buy it (no biotic activity).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: emily rain
Date: 11 May 04 - 06:01 PM

well, what i'm combining it with is teeming with active little lifeforms, so it doesn't matter a whole lot how the peat moss started out. :)

blackcatter, i wish that were the case... but the moss stunk when i opened the bag. i've gotten used to it in the meantime, but i'm a little worried about what guests will think! i'll keep you posted on the pine needle solution.

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: emily rain
Date: 11 May 04 - 06:32 PM

hmm, i'm sure i remember closing the italics after teeming...

Subject: RE: BS: composting pet waste?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 11 May 04 - 08:35 PM

"Teach them to use the toilet" -- well, we've got a COMPOSTING toilet . . .

I keep the cat compost and the people compost separate.

Both get layered with leaf mulch and vegetation. And there's a separate compost area of "kitchen" compost. What the source is depends on where it eventually ends up. (Flowers or food plants.)

Linn