BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?

Subject: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 May 04 - 05:40 PM

It cause me some amusement to find out today, that the term Gung Ho, is the name of a communist organisation. Details on how this came to be, is on the following link.

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19980126

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:43 PM

I thought It Came From The Swamp.

LH ...OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 May 04 - 07:26 PM

You should watch the old movie "Gung Ho!"

Tha article is right: it's usually used disparagingly ("Shit, he's a gung-ho bastard.").

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Amos
Date: 19 May 04 - 07:37 PM

The popular translation, even though inaccurater, has always been "Pull together!" That is the concept which determined its meaning in English usage.



I have heard it used as high praise for enthusiasm, as well.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 04 - 08:01 PM

It's a Chinese expression. It became popular when various American adventurers and soldiers were in contact with the Chinese, probably back in the '30's, but maybe at a considerably earlier date than that. In American usage it means "ready for anything". I don't know what it means in Chinese.

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 May 04 - 10:17 PM

I've always heard that it meant "Work together."

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Amos
Date: 19 May 04 - 10:30 PM

Ready for anything?

No, LH, I am sure you have been misled. It means, as Rapaire says, "Work together" or similar.   True, a person who has a gung-ho attitude might _be_ ready for anything, but that is not the meaning of the expression.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 May 04 - 10:45 PM

When I was in the Army is was used degrogatorially about those who were extremely military-minded -- "A gung-ho son of a bitch" or "Don't be so damned gung-ho." It was NOT used in the original sense!

A similar word was "Strac" (pronounced "strack") from the military acronym for "Strategic Assault Corps" (as I remember it). This meant that your boots were mirror shined, your uniform starched and pressed, etc. A "strac troop" was someone with an outstanding outward appearance -- and who might very well be dumber'n a giant pile of rocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:23 AM

Many foreign words have been adopted from various languages from different countries.

'Head hon cho' was a term often used by US troops which originated from the war against Japan and the subsequent occupation of Japan. Hon Cho was the name given to a village leader or a manager.

In the UK armed forces we often refered to doing ones laundry as 'dhobying', originally an Indian (Hindi) word meaning to wash. If you travel India you often see areas called dhoby ghats where the laundry is done.

If someone flew off the handle and went a bit mad we said that they had gone doolaly. Again a Indian word that referred to a mental hospital at Dholaly in the North Indian hills where troops suffering from heat exhaustion or other problems were sent to recover.

Other common adopted words from Chinese and Japanese are 'typhoon' (da feng= great wind), rickshaw (nin li cha in Chinese or jin ri cha in Japanese= man powered vehicle).

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Micca
Date: 20 May 04 - 06:46 AM

Actually Shanghaiceltic, I understood that Doolally came from the army camp at Deolali near Bombay (Mumbai) where troops waiting for space on troopships home to the UK during the Raj were quartered,and since, if they just missed one ship, or it was full they could be waiting there for 6 months to a year for space, understandably with no duties or real work, a lot went "stir crazy" and were said to have a touch of the "Deolali Tap"

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 May 04 - 06:57 AM

When I was in the Army is was used degrogatorially about those who were extremely military-minded -- "A gung-ho son of a bitch" or "Don't be so damned gung-ho." It was NOT used in the original sense!

I think it would fair to say that here in the UK, it does tend to be used in this fashion. More the idea that certain military elites believe themselves to be able, or convey to others that they can 'walk-on-water'.

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Micca
Date: 20 May 04 - 08:17 AM

and for those who like a reference or link to support a statement Dolally Tap

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 20 May 04 - 09:11 AM

When I was in the Marines it was used as a greeting, a derogatory term, a compliment, and a chant of unison. It came from the China Marines in the 30s.

As a greeting: "Semper Fi Mac," the first Marine says, "Gung Ho" said the second Marine. (The literality of this is "Always Faithful Brother" and "Working together.")

Derogatory: "That Gung Ho SOB is gonna get us all killed if he doesn't slow down."

Complimentary: "He's one Gung Ho SOB isn't he!"

Chant: Most often while running as a form of cadence.

"I don't know but I've been told"

repeat by platoon

       "Gung Ho Marines are mighty bold"

repeat by platoon

       "Gung Ho"

repeat by platoon

       "Gung Ho"

repeat by platoon.

I was told by the China Marines I met during my time in the military that it was Chinese and literally meant "Working together."

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:05 PM

"Beserk" originated in Indonesia - enough said if you know...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 20 May 04 - 02:13 PM

I don't know - darn it -

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: GUEST,Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 20 May 04 - 02:24 PM

Respectfully disagree, Foolestroupe (intriguing name BTW). I believe the word "berserk" comes to us from the days of the Vikings. Berserkers were Viking warriors who were overcome by a blood rage during battle and fought insanely with no thought of self-preservation.

There is an equivalent term from Indonesia - "amok".

"Gung ho" - is indeed "work together" so far as I know.
Sidelight: "kung fu", sometimes written as "gung fu" translates as "work done" or "accomplished man". (Chinese writing can be as much symbolic as literal, which accounts for the wide variation of apparent meanings in English.)

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 20 May 04 - 04:33 PM

Berserk is from Old Norse Berserkr, either "bear coat"; or "bare coat" i.e. unarmoured & (popularly) even shirtless. I would love to know why you think it's from Indonesia, Robin!

I suspect Jeremiah is right & you're confusing it with amok, Malay " rushing in a frenzy" according to the OED.

OED also gives kung fu as deriving from gong "merit" & fu "master", by way of variation!

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 May 04 - 09:26 PM

Sorry, I meant amok....

a bit amuck at the moment... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:10 PM

When I was in the Army is was used derogatorially about those who were extremely military-minded -- "A gung-ho son of a bitch" or "Don't be so damned gung-ho." It was NOT used in the original sense!

But then the same kind of thing can be true of such expressions as "keen". It's not that the original sense is changed, but that it is given a different value in certain circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 May 04 - 09:48 AM

I trust that everyone has followed the link to the explanation provided in the first post?

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: GUEST,Strudelbag
Date: 21 May 04 - 10:46 AM

The U.S. expression "Gung Ho!" was introduced as a battle cry by Marine Corps Col. Evans Carlson in 1942. Carlson, leader of the USMC First Raider Battalion, had been an observer with Chinese Communist forces just before America entered the war. Carlson erroneously believed that "Gung Ho!" was Chinese for "Work Together!" and this is the meaning it was given in Carlson's unit.

By the end of the war it was being used as an adjective, and had already begun to acquire an ironic tinge. It is now used throughout the American military both seriously and ironically, depending on circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 22 May 04 - 12:51 AM

G'day Shambles - et al.

The term Gung Ho was, I understand, coined in China (ca1929), by a bloke called Rewi Alley - a Kiwi. Rewi was a BIG man, with a GENTLE mind and voice. I went though school with his nephew, and back in the 1950's Rewi chnaged my life with his gentle hour-long talk to 1,200 kids about his life in China over the previous couple of decades - including WWII.

Anyway... if anyone wants to check out Rewi....

Optomistic Rewi Is the best site I could find about the bloke.

Co-op Rewi is the best I found on the history of Gung Ho Co-operative

Cheers - Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Gung Ho. Where did it come from?
From: GUEST,Wotcha in Napoli
Date: 22 May 04 - 12:22 PM

STRAC: Strong, Tough, Ready, Around the Clock ... late 50s to early 60s usage from the first attempts of the US to create a rapid reaction force (originally based in Tampa as the Readiness Command which later morphed into the Joint Command, CENTCOM ...). Also used in Airborne units.

Cheers,

Airborne!

Brian