Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available

Subject: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 03:09 PM

My program Find MIDI Chords is now available as shareware from my website www.greenhedges.com

This was previously a commercial program (HANDS-ON MIDI CHORDS)distributed by a major supplier of professional MIDI backing tracks.

It's purpose is to read ANY MIDI file, and display a chart of the chords being played. As the file does not contain this information, the program has to analyse the notes being played in order to calculate the chords.

It also tries to guess the key (if not stated in the file) and can transpose the chord list to any key.

You can select simple, medium, or complex chords, and the program will simplify if necessary.

The shareware version has a 30 day trial period, after which it will only analyse the first 16 bars.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: Mark Clark
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 12:35 AM

Neil, this sounds like a very useful program. I it isn't needed for getting chords to folk tunes—they're usually simple enough that the chords are obvious—but it might come in handy for obscure jazz tunes.

I plan to download this one but I don't want to do it until I have time to spend with it. I'm busy enough right now that the trial period would probably run out before I could see it in action.

The actual download link on Neil's site is download “Find MIDI Chords”.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 03:15 AM

Thanks Mark.
It is actually intended mainly for Pop music, as that is where the backing tracks are used.

But you'd be surprised how many people ask for the chords to folk songs.

The program displays and prints them in the following format:

Bar Beat

1 |   F    C    =    = |
2 |   F    =    G    = |
etc

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: Mark Clark
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 11:40 AM

I like that format for chords. I have some questions, though.

1. Does it always print just one measure per line?
   
2. Can the program divine such things as Bb7(b9) and distinguish it from, say, an AbDim7?
   
3. Does it have fixed names for certain voicings and inversions or do the names depend on context? (e.g., Em7 vs. G6)
   
4. Does it limit chord identification to the notes played or can it extrapolate and name the full chord that it's hearing a partial of? In otherwords, would the chart produced match the standard chord chart for the tune? (I'm thinking of jazz here.)

Thanks,

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 01:08 PM

The job of identifying a chord from the notes being played is too complex for a full analysis always to be practicable.

The program has to sort out, identify and ignore passing notes, overlaps and other quirks. It all comes down to deciding which notes are part of a chord and which are not.

The program does not give an instantaneous snapshot of each separate collecion of notes, but attempts to take an average over the specified beat.

Incidentally, you can specify how many chords per bar, so in 4/4 time, you could have one, two or four. The averaging will takeplace over a different period, so the results may be different.

E.g. you may just play a G chord for the whole of a bar, or it may be a G and a C, each over two beats.

Where there are two possible names for the same 'chord', i.e. set of notes, (like Em7 or G6) depending on the inversion, the program does attempt to take into account the key signature. However, given that stating the key is optional in MIDI files, this is sometimes just a guess.

Hope this helps

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 01:14 PM

I forgot, yes just one measure per line at present.
Now I have got it back from Hands-On, I can look at improvements.

If you just have a single (e.g. Bass) note, you will get it in brackets as the F below. For two notes, I think it attempts a chord name, but I will have to check.

If it can't identify a chord, I think you just a dot. (I wrote it a long time ago, 1996, and can't remember all the details!)

= means the same note or chord (held or repeated)

Bar Beat

1 | (F)   C    .    . |
2 |   F    =    G    = |

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: Mark Clark
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 01:30 PM

Thanks, Neil. What about question #2 above?

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 07:44 AM

Mark, I don't think it gets that complex. I can only suggest you try it and see if it does what you want.

I can look into the possibility of improvements when I know where they are needed.

PS
I would have thought that in view of the number of Chord requests that are posted, there would be more demand for this than I have seen so far!

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 09:55 PM

Hi Neil and Mark,

Just for reference the only other product which I've seen that performs this function is Jammer Pro 4 from Soundtrek which costs $129. Admittedly its prime objective is to compete with BandInABox, but its chord recognition utility works well if (1) all the Chords are in one MIDI track (2) there are no tacit chords (3) all the chord elements are played simultaneously - it won't translate arpeggios. I have not tried V5.

I wrote to them some years ago and suggested that they unbundle the Chord Recognition facility (for a much lower price). I don't believe that they saw a market for it and/or this didn't suit their business objectives.

Jammer Pro 4 has an excellent user interface but while its chord output looks fancy, it is virtually impossible to convert to text for use elsewhere. I much prefer your simple text approach.

I've yet to try your download but will do when I consolidate life after a couple of weeks in the Tropics of Far North Queensland.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 05 Aug 04 - 07:07 AM

My program searches for chords across the entire file, all tracks and instruments, although you can specifically exclude one or more instruments (Channels).

Arpeggios may or may not be detected, I will have to try it and see. If not, then maybe an enhancement would be possible.

Not sure what you mean by 'tacit' chords?
Neil

PS Cakewalk (or was it Cubase?) does show the chords at each instant, but that is misleading and impracticable to use, as it can change many times during each beat.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 05 Aug 04 - 07:57 AM

Just a thought - can anyone suggest any places/sites where it would be useful to advertise this program?

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Aug 04 - 01:39 PM

You might want to submit it to the major download sites like Tucows and Download.com. Whenever I'm looking for a tool and I can't find anything suitable at Sourceforge I search those sites and maybe a couple of others before trying a general Google search.

Sourceforge projects are generally assumed to be freely distributed with the possibility of a donation. Tucows, Download.com, et al., provide shareware tools primarily and maintain download counts and user appraisals to help guide the curious.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 05 Aug 04 - 09:14 PM

My first thought is Hitsquad which seems to specialise in shareware for musos.

As part of a separate thread I've been working out the score and chords for LOVING YOU HAS MADE ME BANANAS. I know that I have the printed score but my 'office' resembles a Mid East bomb-site at the moment - that what happens when other family members treat it as junk room. In the interim I thought that I'd use the only MIDI I could find at URL: http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/eltonjohn/69/midi3.html or Click Here.

It's an interesting/masochistic challenge, but I came up with the following (chords apply to the offbeats in each 4/4 bar):

01__________Bb__________________
02__________Bb__________________
03__________Bb__________________
04__________Bb__________________
05__________Fm________Bdim
06__________Gm6_________________
07__________Cm9_______Adim
08__________Bb________C7
09__________Cm7_______Adim
10__________Bb__________________
11__________Bb__________________
12__________Bb__________________
13__________Fm________Bdim
14__________Gm6_________________
15__________Cm7_______Cm6
16__________Bb__________________
17__________Bb__________________
18__________Ab________E7
19__________Eb__________________
20__________Ab________Bb7
21__________Eb__________________
22__________Fsus4_____C7
23__________F___________________
24__________Bb________C7
25__________Cm7_______Adim
26__________Bb__________________
27__________Bb__________________
28__________Bb__________________
29__________Fm________Bdim
30__________Gm6_________________
31__________Cm9_______Adim
32__________Bb


I should point out that I tried to maintain the integrity of the chord structures but simplified the meter for use at Mudcat. I don't particularly like the successive use of the Bb bars, but that's what the MIDI presented me. I also used only the first 32 bars of the arrangement. You may find that the chords look neater in a fixed pitch font, but that shouldn't be necessary.

Have a look if you have some spare time.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 02:26 AM

PROGRAM TEMPORARILY WITHDRAWN

I seem to have introduced a bug - it doesn't work AT ALL

Please wait for a corrected version!!!!

Sorry

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 02:34 AM

Panic over, the program is OK after all.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 03:19 AM

I have now added some screen shots to the download page, so you can see more clearly what it does.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 09:17 AM

I was right, there IS an error, in a part of the code which I don't remember ever modifying. (A less than sign seems somehow to have been replaced by a greater than sign.)

The result is that the output is TOTALLY wrong.

I will check the program out carefully before I upload a new version.
If you have already downloaded, please ignore that version, and wait for the new one.

I will reset the time code so that you will still get a 30 day trail.

Thanks for the feedback, John.
Neil

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 09:57 AM

I had tried it out Neil, hence my suggestion for using a common tune to analyse. Just being lateral for the minute I wonder if there's a MIDI test file out there that just has left hand jazz chords - it doesn't need fancy hass root inversions.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 02:17 AM

You can easily use HARMONY to make up test files. Create a small tune with, for example, 2 bars of G crotchets.
Set all the chord names to G and generate notes from chords.

Then edit one note in each chord as required.
If necessary, add a unison voice as well, to have 5 notes in each chord.

I will be uploading a corrected (and improved) version of MIDI chords later today.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 03:40 AM

Corrected version 2.0.1 now uploaded

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:56 AM

Ah, that feels better! Interesting stuff, I'll let you know. I believe it has good potential at Hitsquad.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 12:38 PM

Hi Pavane - remember that this time of year things get slow on Mudcat due to a lot of people being away on holiday, not at their computer. We are not necessarily disinterested, just not reading Mudcat. You might get a better response from the thread (or a new one) once Northern Summer has run its course.
It's not the sort of programe that I have much need for in current circumstances, but in the past there have been occasions when something with its capabilities would have been invaluable.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 02:14 AM

Hi Geoff,
Understood! Just because I am stuck here, testing day and night, week and weekend, because there is a release due and the code is cr*p, doesn't mean to say anyone else is working!

(That is NOT my software, you understand, but that of a household name to whom I am currently contracted)

But I am happy with the number of hits my page is getting.
Regards
Neil

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 05:11 AM

By 'tacit' chords - what is meant is 'tacet' chords - silent or unplayed chords.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 06:16 AM

I have never heard them!

I don't suppose they would be present in a MIDI file, which only contains note on and note off commands!

Where would they occur?

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 06:25 AM

From the Web:
Tip #1 - Taceting or the Art of Zero

Laying low is one thing, but laying out is another. Two reasons for laying out or taceting;

1. If a tune or section of a tune is too difficult to play at this point in time, it's probably better to stop playing and leave it to the players who can cover the song or section rather than struggle through and distract the congregation from worship with your "clams", (musicianese for missed notes). If you're not a good enough player to play the part yet or you just didn't have time to practice it at rehearsal or at home laying out is the noble thing to do.

2. A second reason to tacet would be for dynamics. A mellow section or the first verse and chorus of a song might just work better if you tacet and come in later. This makes the point of entry more dramatic and thus more dynamic. A tacet may be written into the chart by stating "guitar in" over bar 21 for example. That's an arrangers trick to creating a crescendo (increase in volume). Layering the instrumentation, adding or subtracting with each verse and/or chorus, to increase or decrease the volume. Enough said. This seems like the easiest posible part, but timing is everything. You don't want to lay out at the wrong moment. Experience will help guide you in the lost art of taceting. A wise man once said, "it's not the notes you play but the notes you don't play."

So no, you won't find any Tacet chords with this program!

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 08:25 AM

Searched for Hitsquad, and it turns out that this is SMM, to whom I have already submitted the program. Thanks anyway.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: Mark Clark
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 03:25 PM

I think John was using the word tacit as an adjective meaning implied, and didn't intend the verb tacet meaning to rest or lay out. I suspect he was refering to chords that are implied by virtue of the harmonic passage but not included in the score; the kind of chords HARMONY would find even though not stated.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:25 AM

Neil, I'll be up in the Northern tropics for 7 to 10 days, but I note that the NoteWorthy Composer site (or one of its linked user sites) has files of MIDI chords already prepared. I won't have time before catching a plane tomorrow, but will attempt to follow up after my return.

Regards, John

PS Both tacet and tacit are appropriate in the context that I referred to. My intention really was that there is little or no data in the accompaniment tracks to analyse.

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: pavane
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 10:46 AM

Have a good trip! Would live to visit that area one day!

Subject: RE: Tech: FIND MIDI Chords program now available
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:25 PM

"Both tacet and tacit are appropriate in the context that I referred to."

Arggh, the English Language, and the fact that this is a good example where spelling IS important!

Who has heard of "The Anguish Languish"? :-)

Robin