BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old

Subject: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST, A Regular
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:07 PM

I'm 60 years old and I live in the U.S.

For half my life I figured out that my country has been at war, in Viet Nam, in Korea, in the Gulf, or somewhere.

When my time came, I joined up and marched. I was shot at, and I came through it unwounded.

Now my country has a doctrine of "pre-emptive strikes" -- that seems to me to be like Pearl Harbor under a different name. I see people who lost good, well paying jobs they'd held for years who now don't have insurance and are living from hand to mouth, scratching out money for them and their families. Some of my friends go to the VA for injuries received in combat, but the VA money and availability has been cut at the same time we're bringing more wounded home from another war. The environment is in shambles, the land raped for the profit of a few.

These thoughts came to me when I was listing to the song "Pat In America" on the Gallant Sons of Erin's "No Irish need apply" CD.

Arrah, do boys, do take my advice
To America I'd have you not be coming,
For there is nothing here but war,
And the murdering cannon's roar,
Faith I wish I was at home in Dear Old Erin.

Yes, I'm depressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:11 PM

That's your problem, Bud.

There are a lot of good things in life to be thankful for and to me living in America is definately one of them.

Dude, you're a bummer.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Padre
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:15 PM

When you get a little older, things will look better (if you can see them)

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:20 PM

Never mind MG that one day you too will grow older and might have reflections on what has happened in your lifetime.

But there again if the West goes on the way it is today and what with the threats posed to it you might not have an old age to grow into.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:21 PM

There are even more things to be thankful for if you're living in a number of other places I can think of...but one can be miserable or happy anywhere, actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:24 PM

A lot of good things in America are under attack, Martin, and eternal vigilance, as someone said, is the price of freedom. Denial doesn't buy anything at all.

At this point we have enemies both domestic and foreign, and we're getting deeper in the big muddy.

It's depressing to us 73-year-olds too. Something's got to be done.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:32 PM

Guest, A Regular,as an upper 60s person I undestand what you are saying, and I agree. Life in our country wasn't supposed to be like this. We grew up proud of our heritage and hopeful for our future. Suddenly it seems that the USA has passed the peak and is on a down slide. And we don't know what to do about it, or eve if there is something we can do.

I remind myself every now and again that in all probability our aims and expectations were too high, that Europe was right, that we have been naive and cocky, even arrogant, about our country and its role in the world. They would probably say, "Welcome to our World". Except that we haven't been making all that many friends that would wish us well lately.

Feeling rueful and contrite and beginning to be ready to accept responsibility for the messes we have made wouold be a start- but I see no serious indication of that on a national level. So what are we to do?

MG, you might want to go play with whatever you play with- you wouldn't understand this subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:33 PM

I am even older, and I am frustrated, not exactly depressed....but I can TELL veryone who will listen that my country should NOT have a policy of pre-emptive strikes with empty rationale...it gives me a certain goal.

But with old age comes a certain amount of, if not 'wisdom', at least perspective, and I don't like what I see as a tendency for humans to hide their heads in the sand and lie to themselves about what is happening...in ALL areas.

I can enjoy what is still good, point at what is bad, and take solace that in the last analysis, the universe doesn't care what we do in this teeny little corner.

Depression is...ummmm...depressing.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:42 PM

I agree with you too, Bill D- there are MANY good things to life and living, music and friends big factors in it. But it seems that more and more I have to compartmentalize the hugely good from the parts I hardly dare peek into. If I picture my life as a series of boxes which range in shade from bright and light to the upper extreme of black, there are far more grey boxes than there used to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Amos
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:54 PM

Ebbie:

Subtract from that total those that have grayed over time because of your own vitality, or aches and pains.

I am pretty sure that in spite of the grotesqueries being promoted by those of low awareness in the world, there are still far more elements of good and of beauty in the universe than there are of evil.

Seriously though, it would be nice if we could boil it all down to one mission, like Frodo's ring job. Imagine being able to resolve this long-duration angst about the forces of darkness with one fell swoop!! Huzzah!!

Sigh--I guess we just have to keep doing the best we can.




A

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Peace
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 12:03 AM

I have three years to consider what my thread with this title will read like. However, read what Clint and Bill wrote, Guest, Regular. Buddy, I didn't think there was life after 30. SURPRISE!

Tomorrow, hey, this'll look better.

Martin, how the heck are you?

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:02 AM

Dear Regular,

You're not alone. Many people are upset about what America has become. Be thankful that you are aware and that you have not become apathetic. Many have detatched entirely. Keep talking to others and give your opinion.

The best way to get 'out of the dumps' is to do something kind for someone. There are always those who need a helping hand.

diana

P.S. Don't pay any attention to Martin. The only place where he can survive is America. Can you believe people are dying to protect his right to be a slob?

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:11 AM

Guest, I am 63, and I understand how you are feeling, and often share it. I found one answer, which is a bit selfish, is to narrow your perspective down to the things that you can affect personally. In other words, make a difference in the places you can, and let the larger picture resolve itself. Help with the larger picture if and when you can, but definitely do what you can in your own sphere.

Of course America wasn't supposed to be like this. Nor was the world. What went wrong? There are too many answers, and the problem is too complex to sort out. If you make yourself depressed and nonfunctional, you will simply have worsened the problem -- draw your vision in a little and do what you can.

Hope it helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:18 AM

I'm only 53, and I'm kinda apathetic...because even though I vote, I don't think it means anything anymore. Yes, I'm sad about what this country has become now. I can think of places that might be better, but I'm really not interested in emigrating...can't afford it either. I will still vote, for what little it's worth now.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:19 AM

So should Dubya be considered a nameless ork, or is it better to cast him as Saruman? He looks more like an ork, but he has the power to act like the evil wizard.

One doesn't have to be older than 50 to share those same feelings, having come through the Vietnam war and having a strong awareness of Korea right before it. Parents who were both WWII vets. And now Bush pisses on the rest of the world like he's entitled to.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:42 AM

More people than ever have registered to vote this time. So much so that in many places additional staff have been added to process the registrations.

Young people on college and high school campuses everywhere are protesting, getting out the vote, and have the smae optimism that all young people do when they are galvanised, such as in not wanting their friends and themselves to be used as cannon fodder in a stupid war.

There IS hope...and good can prevail, esp. if we use the power of our minds and spoken words to encourage alternative messages to those of fear, death and destruction ala the shrub and cronies.

Talk to young people. Watch the Daily Show with John Stewart. Yes, it's on the Comedy Channel, but his messages are clear, interviews are sharp and young people are listening to him and his guests.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 02:29 AM

Yes by god! John Stewart has the best news & commentary show in years. Ever, in fact.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:45 AM

I don't think you can equate Pearl harbour, an attack on FDR's America with an attack on a shit like Saddam Hussein. Although I suppose it maybe felt the same if you got in the way of one of the bombs.

I guess that's one for the conscience of Bush and Blair - even though we elected them.

I note there are some people in this thread who feel that Bush is an honourable man . I feel the same way about Blair. There are also people who detest Bush. Atleast we have a democracy and we can express our feelings , which means we are sitting prettier than some poor sods.

And you're quite right, if your country is like ours - we should treat our war veterans better....much better.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:02 AM

It must be so awful to be that old. I'm only 59 and 9 months, so I'm just fine and happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Amos
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 07:53 AM

He's an orc who was promoted beyond his competency level, thus invoking the Peter Principle. The Saruman influence comes from Cheney, Rove et al.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 08:14 AM

Yo, 60,

As I read your post I was reminded of a one of my elderly clients back when I was working as a social worker. Her name was Matilda Hieztman and she was a holocost survivor. I remember her telling my about the imaginative ways that she and her fellow concentration camp friends would rustle up smidgens of food and would wait for the right occasion and have a little party. It's hard to think of folks who were in such a desperate situation finding such spirit but her stories serve me to this very day.

Yeah, we have a very evil and corrupt government and, yeah, the prospects of it changing don't look good but, hey, we also are also individually blessed with a spirit that allows us to find some joy amid those realities. So, I'd suggest, 60, that you get out more, spend more time with your friends, play more music or participate in whatever in the past has brought you joy and allow your spirit to carry you through these difficult times.

And, one last thing. No where is it chizzeled in stone that you have to stay here while the evilness plays itself out.

Now get to work, dang it!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Amos
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 08:36 AM

Sure, mon, it is a murderous place, and clearly at least half the people here are comfortable with murderous impulses. But the good people will find each other, likewise.
The ones who will not find each other are those who decline in apathetic resignation. There is no occasion for it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Displaced Camelotian
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 09:22 AM

Things may be bad but no worse, it seems to me, than usual. The fact that, once again, neither party has managed to nominate a really inspiring ticket makes the scene look drearier than it might.

Surely the world was worse off in 1942. And the nation is in far better shape than it was between 1967 and 1974, when the Vietnam War was raging with far more intensity than the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, the economy was poor, hard drug use was skyrocketing,leaders were assassinated, and riots swept every major U.S. city. (In Indianapolis in the late '90s, you could still see the burned-out wreckage of the 1968 riot.)

Nowadays the spectre of catastrophic terrorist attacks is all too real, but perhaps it's less horrible than was the threat of general nuclear war with the Soviets. Many people have a hard time now realizing just how close to mutual destruction we came, on more than one occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 12:21 PM

When folks around my age (69) talk about the good old days and how the world is going to Hell, I ask.. "Which good old days are you talking about?" I'm not sure if they're talking about the Big Band Era and classic movies or the Holocaust and the KKK lynching blacks.
In the fifties, I wouldn't have dared to take my wife (who is black) to my hometown in southern Wisconsin. Now, we move comfortably and are warmly greeted everywhere we go. Truth is, I don't miss a lot of what is called the Good Old Days, despite being distraught at times about the present. Just remember, These will be the "Good Old Days" to people forty years from now.

If you're looking for hope in mankind, you're always going to dig for diamonds in the dirt. If all I had was Bush and Blair and gas for $2.25, life would be depressing. I have desire to hijack this thread to talk about faith, but faith gives me hope that mankind alone can not.

Wrote a song about it... first verse pretty much sums it up:

"I take cold comfort in the ways of man
I see no justice in this land
I feel the anger of the un-stayed hand
May my heart find rest in Thee"

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 12:29 PM

I keep wanting to add something to this thread.

I understand why you feel the way you do.

I wish I had words to help you feel differently..

But I don't.

Try reading Sir jOhn of Hull's posts.

They've helped me deal with the fall of humankind with a smile on my face.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 12:48 PM

You folk are making this way too complicated, feeding depression. The world has been fraught with injustice for millennia past and will be for millennia to come. Cast your vote to throw them out of office for the egregious misdeed of preemptive war, then, as dianavan said, go do something nice for other people. It really is as simple as that.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 12:54 PM

Jerry's got the right attitude.

If you are depressed, go see a psychiatrist and he will give you some medication.

I am no spring chicken at 54. I have 50 years of memories and life is better every day if you look around you and make the world work to your advantage.

If you have time feeling sorry for yourself, you have too much time on your hands.

sorry, but you gloom and doomers ought to get a life.

Brucie, I am just fine. Hope all is good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Regular
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:11 PM

Nope, MG, I'm feeling sorry because of what I see around me.

I'm not going to suicide or anything. And I'm certainly not going to move elsewhere, because that would be quitting and I wasnt' brought up to be a quitter.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:28 PM

GUEST, Regular, I know how you feel, because i feel like that sometimes too (but i'm not sixty yet). I have watched our country, which used to be a great place, be raided by the thugs, bribe takers, racists and crooks that call themselves our current government.

strangely, ive found a great way of making myself feel better - by throwing things out that i no longer need - old books (to second hand shops) clothes, (to friends or shops) and all the mindless clutter that accumulates. this seems to leave space for some positive energy to come in. not that it helps move one bit those ratbags in power. we have an election in a couple of days. that gives me two days of hope.

and i have some old friends - like old socks, comfortable, dependable and irreplaceable. maybe in two days time we'll get together and have a good cry. or maybe a good laugh and scream. depending on the election outcome!

good luck n best wishes,

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:37 PM

Martin Gibson may not have depression, but he's a carrier.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:44 PM

Hey, MG is saying some positive things about what he still finds to appreciate in this country. That's gotta count for something.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: kendall
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:48 PM

I am not a gloom and doom type. I am, however, an historian and a pragmatist. The world has been going to hell in a handbasket since the cavemen discovered clubs. It's simply a longer trip than we first thought. Say, are we picking up speed, or is it my imagination?

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:51 PM

Kendall, it just goes to show the results of the American Indians' loose immigration policies.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:56 PM

GUEST,A Regular, I think I can see where you're coming from. You've made a huge investment in the fundamental principles that this country is supposed to be all about; freedom, democracy, regard for human life, etc., by your service to this country. Getting shot at, even if you weren't physically hurt, must put the nature of your service to this country in pretty stark perspective. And you see that your sacrifice for this country, and the sacrifice made by others who have served this country in wars, those who have been wounded, and especially those who gave the ultimate sacrifice, seems to have been in vain at best, and at worst, for all the wrong reasons.

I can understand how you might find that pretty depressing. But I think you can also look at what your experiences have taught you. Maybe as a result of those experiences, you have much more wisedom, and a better sense of perspective to offer the world than you might have otherwise had. The world needs as much wisedom as it can get. I'm glad you're here to offer yours. That's one of the good things we can be thankful for.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 02:29 PM

Hardly, guest peedeecee.

I am a carrier of nothing but some blunt truth. sorry you have trouble like guest, Regular dealing with such things.

This is a wonderful world and a wonderful country we live in.

I really mean that. And if you have a problem with either, it is your life that is suffering for it, not mine. I suggest that you really try to do something about it, no matter how old you are or feel and figure out what it's going to take for you to wake up every morning and count your blessings for what you have.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:07 PM

Martin, I hate bitching, but really a bit of compassion for the human condition wouldn't go amiss.

And if this guy fought for us then we all owe him for defending the freedoms that we enjoy and make everyday just such a bloody good fun for you along with the rest of us. .....

My Dad got to feeling a bit like that at one time. He worked all his life. he had been a soldier and a cop and a nurse. He said to me once , I never made anything...

I said, you kept the streets safe.

He said, yes but that's such a negative thing.....

what I'm saying people do get to feeling a bit low sometimes. they don't necessarily need medication. Sometimes just having a someone to show friendship, in a world that can be a very unfriendly place. Well its more likely to do the trick than saying , snap out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:11 PM

As if coming here is the answer, Huh?

Get real. I mean real.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:37 PM

Well said WeeLittleDrummer!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:40 PM

Snap out of it, LilyFestre.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Joe_F
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:15 PM

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, the USA is the most dreadful country in the world, except for the other ones that you read about in the papers.

I could name quite a number of things in which America is preeminent that I find shameful. But, for most people, it still means wealth & freedom, and to some of us it means home. None of those things is to be despised.

Be 67 this month.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Peace
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 07:49 PM

Guest, Regular,

Much of what we feel has to do with the size of the boat we feel we're in. People who are in a canoe can have much more control much more quickly that those in an ocean liner. The world got more immediate than it ever has been before. Today, we can watch five minute updates on the status of Mount St Helens; we can get hourly updates on news events; we can get responses from people 12,000 miles away in a flash. We now control very little of any of these events. And we also seem to think that our votes don't really matter. But hey, who said they ever did? Who said we matter at all to anyone except maybe a few folks who love us or care for us? I have never been important to anyone except maybe my kids. What does that show for 57 years of life? But on the other side of that there is the realization that maybe being loved by only a person or two is not the end of the world. Maybe it's the beginning of one. And maybe today is the day you take Ellenpoly's advice and read jOhn's threads, because he has a whimsical and strange--yet neat--view of this world and about how sometimes humour can take the edge off some heavy stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: kendall
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 07:57 PM

"Nothing is good or bad. Thinking makes them so." Shakespere

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 08:23 PM

well why not, I have encountered quite a lot of friendship and helpfulness on mudcat.

theres nobody down my street who woulld know about Spider John Koerner or Jackson C Frank or even Martin Carthy. I did a gig this afternoon, I'm too shagged out to go to one of the local folk clubs - mudcat is on hand - a little community where evrybody knows that the ceiling is up and the floor is down - most of the time, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Peace
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 08:28 PM

Koerner, Ray and Glover. Cool. Heard them live once in Boston, I think. Very cool.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Morticalia
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 11:00 PM

i have heard that song sung by sinéad o'connor, slightly differently...

hear ye boys, now take my advice, to america i'd have ye's not be comin', there is nothin' here but war, where the murdering cannons roar, and i wish i was at home, in dear old dublin...

wow those old irish ballads depress me

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Peace
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 11:02 PM

The songs ain't half as depressing as the wars.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 03:24 AM

Hey---I like Jon Stewart too; I reckon I'm in the "bummer" category as well. Being at the Clint Keller stage in life, I do have some thoughts which might affect a less cheery soul. Thoughts of Bush, Blair, Hussein, Osama, Hitler, Stalin and now Martin Gibson. And the rainy season has begun in B.C.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 04:02 AM

they've got planet hollywood in Dublin now - Arnie has left his mark - you'd feel quite at home there - they'd even lay on a few cannons for you - a very hospitable nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 06:45 AM

Nothing is so depressing as cheerfullness in the wrong place.

I always feel that the right way to cope with trouble is to look at it, decide what is the worst you can expect, and then say "I can cope with that" and get on with things. People who say "I'm sure it's all going to be fine" just bring me down.

It's rather the same attitude as singing the blues as a way of gettig over them. And it's related to the approach taken by someone trying to fix an engine - they look for what is wrong, and concentrate on that. You wouldn't want your car fixed by someone whose whole focus was on picking out the things that hadn't gone wrong. (I use that analogy because I've just been reading the Ladies No 1 Detective Agency books, including the estimable car mechanic Mr. JLB Maketoni - I recommend these to cheer anyone up.)

People seem to like arguing about whether everything has got better or worse, and that's missing the point - some things are better, some are worse, and the balance is going to be different for all of us, depending on what happens on our lives, and what matters most to us.

As for Frodo and the Ring Quest sorting out everything, that's to misunderstand Tolkien. He wasn't presenting the end of Sauron as the final defeat of evil, it was a temporary victory in a struggle which never ends. An episode in "a long defeat", even.   

Jerry's song there seems to hit the right note. I'd like to see the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 07:20 AM

Here it is, Kevin:

Eyes Of Faith

I take cold comfort in the ways of man
I find no justice in this land
I feel the anger of the un-stayed hand
May my heart find rest in Thee

CHORUS:

   And in the darkness, give me the eyes of faith
   In my sorrow, send down your healing grace
   And on my journey, may my path be straight
   May my heart find rest in Thee

Give me the wisdom, that I might understand
Give me the courage, that I might take my stand
And when I'm weary, lend me a helping hand
May my heart find rest in Thee

Some spend their life in a search for power
Ignoring treasures time can't devour
All that I ask in my final hour
May my heart find rest in Thee

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Mudlark
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 12:31 PM



McG of H, what a great line...and a cogent posting. Thanks for weighing in!

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 02:12 PM

If one is not brought down by the prospects that have saddened this good man who started this perceptive thread, I suspect you, for some strange reason, are enjoying the views from where you are of the constitution of the United States being trivialized and diminished in the name of national security. I, for one, can understand his expressed negativeity and anxiety.

May you live in interesting times.--the old curse, is made profound in difficult times. The saddest times make the best films in retrospect. Watching those sad films of previously real historical times are SAFE only in retrospect. But people undergoing the "interesting times" are, at best, are saddened by those moments on the time line. At worst they are killed by them.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 02:26 PM

At age 63, I take note of the fact that I am older and more ma**re than MG. But when I was his age is when my health and all really fell apart. Possibly he is in for a big wakeup call as he "matu**s". ;-)

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 02:34 PM

As pointed out "And the nation is in far better shape than it was between 1967 and 1974, when the Vietnam War was raging with far more intensity than the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, the economy was poor, hard drug use was skyrocketing,leaders were assassinated, and riots swept every major U.S. city."

And yet I recall the 60s as a time of great hope (that's from the other side of the Atlantic, but a lot of the same things applied, and that's the impression I have always got from American contemporaries).

So the question is, is it just a question of age, and of how getting older can bring you down, and that being young today still hopeful in the same way - or is it somethimg about the times themselves?

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 02:42 PM

"...the Clint Keller stage in life..."

Thanks, Boab. I never thought I'd have a life stage named after me. Makes me proud, and humble.

I've been sitting here laughing for a while and then crying for a while, alternately, like the time I found out i was going to be the father of twins.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 04:21 PM

hey Art. If you put an n and an a where your stars are, you get what you are full of.

I am sorry that your health has failed and I don't take my fine health for granted. I also work at it. The lifeline in my family is into their '90s.

so your philosophical waxing I will let you know is only wasting your precious time.

It has nothing to do with as you call it national security. It has to do with love of life, appreciation for what God has given me.

I don't have everything and I don't care. I have more than most, especially the ability every day to wake up to a wonderful wife, a great family and home, a fine career, and all of the great guitars I'll ever need. If you think I take ANY of that for granted you are sadly, and I mean very sadly in your case, mistaken.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 04:34 PM

Thing is, I had the depressing thoughts of a 60 yr. Old when I was about twenty-five. Where does realism end and optimism begin? Who put the bomp in the bomp shuh bomp shuh bomp? And, why is there no line drawn on the Earth where the equator is on maps? Jujubes have gone from four for a penny to about 5 cents each. Inflation at a rate of 2000%. Explain this. SOMEONE.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 04:46 PM

Well, brucie:

I remember when a haircut cost 75 cents. But, the minimum wage was also 75 cents. When I was in High School you could still buy a car for $4,000. But, you could work a whole year at General Motors on a mind-numbingly boring job and earn less than that.

Way I see it, inflation is a killer, but we couldn't afford a car until I was 15, and then we bought an old (even then) 1935 Chevy coupe for $150. The house I was born in cost $2,800 when my parents bought it. But, we almost lost it in the depression and had to rent out half the house (and it was a SMALLLLLL house) to keep from having the bank foreclose on us.

Materially, we're most of us far better off than we were fifty years ago. Too many aren't, and that hurts because when everyone was poor, it didn't hurt so much.

Was fighting a war a waste? I don't think so. I honor those who fought for this country (and for other countries we hauled out of the ashes who now hate us.) This Iraq stuff has nothing to do with freedom, as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't in any way diminish what those who fought in the second World War gave to all of us.

Thanks, depressed at 60. 61 will be better...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 04:52 PM

Actually, for his sake, I hope so, too.

but start working at it now.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 09:23 PM

And to lighten the mood:

CARDINAL RULE: Lawyers should never ask a witness a question if they aren't prepared for the answer.


In a trial, a Southern small town prosecuting attorney called his first witness, a grand motherly, elderly woman to the stand.

He approached her and asked, "Mrs. Jones, do you know me?"

She responded, "Why, yes I do know you, Mr. Williams. I've known you since you were a young boy, and frankly, you've been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on your wife, you manipulate people and talk about them behind their backs. You think you're a big shot when you haven't the brains to realize you never will amount to anything more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you."

The prosecutor was stunned! Not knowing what else to do, he pointed across the room and asked, "Mrs. Jones, do you know the defense attorney?"

She again replied, "Why yes, I do. I've known Mr. Bradley since he was a youngster too. He's lazy, bigoted, and he has a drinking problem. He can't build a normal relationship with anyone and his law practice is one of the worst in the entire state. Not to mention he cheated on his wife with three different women. One of them was your wife. Yes, I know him."

The defense attorney almost died. The judge asked both counselors to approach the bench, and in a very quiet voice, said, "If either of you asks her if she knows me, I'll throw your sorry asses in jail for contempt."

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 10:45 PM

3 easy ways to fight depression

1) Do all you can to send Mr. Bush to a well-deserved retirement in the ancestral home (in Connecticut). He's on his way--just needs a little push. That will improve the whole world.


2) If you can, try to catch "The Daily Show", as several posters have already suggested. If the best way to combat idiocy is ridicule, as I've read, then the Bush-Cheney absurdity has no chance.

3) Try reading more above the line, perhaps less below. The music threads are always fun. And do as much music yourself as you can, preferably as part of a group.

I sang a memorial service yesterday for a member of our chorus. And felt wonderful
afterwards. It was great to see so many of the group, past and present, and to sing mixed--not by part--though we were sightreading 2 of the 3 pieces. And it was great to learn so much about my fellow chorus member--it's too bad we frequently don't know that much about a person til they're gone.

There was a wonderful eulogy: sample---Harold was "never lacking for female companionship" and (married 3 times) was "always hopeful".

I met a friend, former member of the group, who will be in a vaudeville evening soon--probably wouldn't have heard about it except for singing the service.

I told the director "Too bad Harold's not here to enjoy it".   He replied "He may be--we don't know".

The Getaway is coming up real soon. Even if you can't make it to the Getaway, there are always new songs to learn--Mudcat helps immeasurably.

Music is just endlessly satisfying, on so many levels and a wonderful bulwark against depresssion.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 10:50 PM

MG: a rude, stupid, irrelevant creep. some say he's fat too.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 10:53 PM

Why Guest, you shouldn't talk about Mary Garvey that way.

No one says I'm fat, because I have loved being in the shadows here.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 11:05 PM

Wish I was fat. Lost 28 pounds this past eight months.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 02:17 AM

there are more people around here talking about just how fat MGibson is than he thinks there are. Standing in the shadows won't help cuz you kin see a belly like that fer a mile.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 04:05 AM

Martin Gibson just how many threads do you intend polluting. Try and explain what pleasure you get out of your sick attitude to life and people that makes you act as you do with the filth that you perpetrate within your posts. You have a major problem, believe it and get help. Someone was asking for help WHY stick knifes in?

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 05:09 AM

You know what's depressing? I'll tell you what's depressing...that there are more people now attacking Martin Gibson than there are posts of Martin's saying mean things to other people.

That's depressing.


Goood joke, brucie.


..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 10:17 AM

I'm with you, Ellenpoly: Martin Gibson has toned down his act considerably, and I for one appreciate it. O.K., he's not Mr. sensitive, but he's contributed far more positive and considered postings than negative in recent weeks. Seems like, when someone moderates their contributions in here, they should receive some encouragement and appreciation.

I've seen Martin and he is actually very thin, with abs hard as rocks.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 10:29 AM

A leopard does not change its spots that easily, their was no need or excuse for his attitude in the first place so please do not be fooled, he has been extremely crude to many people. He has children and I don't really believe he would like other children to read some of his comments and some children (little ones) do read Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 12:05 PM

MG,

My Oct. 7th 2:12 post was not aimed at you. It was aimed to folks in general---about the security issue in general--and how it has impinged on the US constitution from my point of view---and therefore on us all. And the gods know that I love this life I have and that I see the many positives of this world as well as the next guy does. But that does not detract from my ability to see what negatives the Bush boys and gal etc. have heaped on us all---and on our freedoms---all ostensibly in the name of that same freedom. Nothing but sad, and possibly depressing, irony.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 01:36 PM

That Guest, A Regular, is maybe not very regular. I say read lots more 'Cat threads. A good laugh gets more oxygen in your lungs and bloodstream. Perks you right up.   Then there's the attitudes -- sharing knowledge, doing good things for each other, encouraging others to uphold standards of decency to each other and the planet...
Especially the sharing of music. I have a theory: the slow air "Planxty Erwin" is one of surpassing beauty and peace. Every playing of that tune adds to the aggregate of those qualities in this world. You may know some tune(s) that impresses you that way. Share that tune on a regular basis. You will be doing something to help others on the planet to experience Peace and Beauty. Eventually critical mass will be reached. There are others in all "walks of life" who are doing some version of this exercise.   There are cooks, builders, teachers, painters, parents -- all finding the epitome of Peace and Beauty somewhere in their purvue and spreading it around. And don't forget the oxygenating laugh.

Also, just for safety's sake, get a thorough physical, to rule out anything that might be beginning to deteriorate.

Maintain basic good health, laugh, share music -- and keep in touch with Mudcat. These folks have a lot of experience-based knowledge. Access to such is always beneficial.   This prescription can be filled and refilled right here. Any dosage you find successful. Make a follow-up appt. at the nurses' desk on your way out. Put your clothes back on.   See you soon.   Dr. Tw

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 03:12 PM

Jerry

You forgot to also tell them about my full head of jet black hair!

Thanks!

Guest, my kids, now age 15 and almost 20 could care less about this site. I could really care less if other kids read this site. it is not my problem.

It is your problem as a parent to monitor what they read.

I consider Mudcat an adult site with adult content.

the BS sections are not for kids nor the adults here who are faint of heart. If you want this to be the real world, you need to realize the world is not designed to your specs. If you are easily offended, I would stop reading Little Hawk's Shattner threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 03:25 PM

art

No harm. hang in there.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 04:00 PM

If I may, let me redirect the discussion away from my pal MG and back to the original issues:

In the insane public world of politics, wars and rumors of wars, etc., things *are* mightily depressing -- I agree. But any one of us can find reasons to live, and even to smile, in the more private areas of our existences.

Actually, I think conditions *never* get much better or much worse: "The more things change, the more they stay the same." The 60s were both better (more hopeful and energetic) and worse (more scarred by hatred, riots, etc.) than today. Just as we humans manage to solve the most pressing problems of a given era, like the cold war and threat of mutual nuclear destruction, new problems we could never have foreseen always seem to pop up to take their place.

I believe that the basic principle of evolution, survival of the species, more or less guarantees that we always find a way to fend off the greatest possible disasters (until the next new and unpredicted crisis, of course).

As far as the US is concerned, it may be true that a half-century of unprecedented prosperity is coming to a permanent end -- who knows? When I was a kid, the average income of *one* semi-skilled minimally-educated adult was enough to support a family, including ownership of a home and a car. Now it takes two incomes, and things are dicier than ever before.

Since two of my grandparents were born and raised in Ireland, I'm eligible for citizenship there, and often pipe-dream about packing up and moving -- perhaps for retirement. (You don't have to give up US citizenship; dual citizenship is an option, and you can get your Social Security checks anywhere.) Problem is, Ireland has become more like America than ever before -- indeed, it's just about as expensive to live there as here, much unlike a few years ago. On the other hand, it's probably more comfortable and familiar for an American expatriate now than ever before, too.

Oh yeah, for what it's worth -- I'm about to turn 57, next month.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 04:28 PM

Poppagator

I seriously believe that much, much more people are immigrating still to this country than pulling the ex-pat thing.

Why is that?

could it be, that with all of the problems this country is still far and away the place to find freedom and opportunity?

chicago is full of people of Irish descent. Many of them who I have known say Ireland is a nice place to visit and trace their roots.

But I have a feeling, they, like all types of people are extremely glad to be here.

In other words, if you leave, 2 others will cry with happiness to be here in your place.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 04:33 PM

Unless they arrive there in the summer or the winter.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 05:02 PM

Summers and winters are beautiful here.

All 4 seasons are.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 05:35 PM

Winters in Ireland might be too difficult for me to handle. Not so much for the temperature as the DARKNESS. I visited there last year in the summertime, and was amazed at how long the sun stayed up at that very northern latitude -- but I know the days in winter must be just as extremely short as the midsummer days are l-o-o-o-n-g.

I grew up in New Jersey, and then spend four-plus years not far from Chicago, where the winters were even worse. It's a known medical/psychological fact that long hours of darkness encourage depression. I'm much happier and more well-adjusted since I moved to New Orleans 30+ years ago.

Maybe the direction in which to expatriate oneself is towards the equator.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 05:54 PM

Maybe, but the bugs near there are enormous.

also, I doubt that you could get a decent cheeseburger.

certainly not an Italian beef sandwich.

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 06:33 PM

If you don't like **, why not just ignore what he posts?

They used to say - maybe they still do - "if you keep picking it, it won't get any better". (And they weren't talking about banjoes.)

Subject: RE: BS: Depressing Thoughts Of A 60 Yr. Old
From: Peace
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 03:11 AM

"Oh yeah, for what it's worth -- I'm about to turn 57, next month."

PoppaGator, as your elder (I turned 57 last month), allow me to say, son, that you spoke very well in that post.