Origins: Annachie Gordon

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST,Joe.
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 10:20 AM

Hello Susan,
               I remember you well from our meeting at Auchincruive
   it surely cannot be as far back as ten years. Give my regards to
   Dick his was one of the two e-mail addresses I had when I took to
   using this machine six weeks back & I was going to contact him at
   that time, however I got side tracked to Ulster & involved in
   long discussions on gospel songs in Scots the Scots Ulster
   language & the settlement in Ulster of Scots from the area where
   I live, in 1606                                                   
   Is the old Professor & his wife still to the fore? He was         
   really scandalized to learn that in Presbyterian Scotland
   we worked on Christmas day into the early sixties
                                                    Yours,
                                                          Joe.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:09 PM

Susan and Joe,
Many thanks for both of your excellent contributions. Unfortunately the broadside has no imprint, but is described as 'A New Song' a pretty meaningless term in the case of broadsides. It was used simply to increase sales.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Effsee
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:25 PM

I'm still trying to get my head round the idea that any Scotsman would go by the name of Hannah!

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:58 PM

I like the Unthanks very much and really like their version.

The Unthanks - Annachie Gordon

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Susan of DT
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 06:13 AM

Joe - Please register as a member of mudcat - easy and free - so we and others can exchange private messages with you. You probably have obsolete email addresses for both of us. Dick's email is all over this site, so no harm will be done to list it here: [e-mail] - the "music" part was added a few years ago. My old digitrad address is not functional.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Gutcher
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 06:50 AM

Hello EFFsee
    If you knew me you would consider it more than astounding you
    would put it down as a miracle {ie} using a computer. It's
    amazing what fear can do to one, in this case fear of a visit
    from the dreaded VAT INSPECTOR,my accounting method being of
    the back of an envelope school.
    Being snow bound at present gives me the time to consult my
    books on Gordon family history do. Frazer, Lords Saltoun.
    Having gone through this exercise many years ago I do not
    expect to come up with any new facts about the ballad.
                                                          Joe. .

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Deneb
Date: 09 May 10 - 05:48 AM

Hi to you all from Rome, Italy!

I decided to post a reply to this specific thread - even if I see that the last message was written in January, so I am not sure someone will read mine - because I was very interested in learning the song "Annachie Gordon" and found a great deal of information thanks to the discussion above.
So... thank you :)

Concerning the song, I will look for Joe Rae's album, as the version I know is probably Nic Jones'.

Singin' Gaia

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Gutcher
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 12:22 PM

It has been mentioned to me that I do not give the proper designation
to Mr Gordon in the version of this ballad that I sing.
ACHNACHIE Gordon is what I sing and after recording it at the S.O.S.S. the young lady doing the recording and I had a discussion
on this apparent anomaly.
Shortly thereafter I was checking another subject when I came across
the mention of a wedding between a Miss Achnachi and a Mr Gordon
in the parish records of Knockando, the very area where the
ballad is supposed to have originated.
Oral transmittion is, in my view, vindicated by this discovery in as much as the name ACHNACHI was not unknown in those parts.
Who knows, the young lady"s father may have been Achnachi of that Ilk
and if she were his heir her husband would, by the law of Scotland,
have become Achnachi Gordon. A descendant of the marriage could have
been the Gordon of the ballad.
Joe.
Joe.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM

Joe,
Have you got the dates for that wedding?

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Gutcher
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 05:19 PM

Steve the answer to your question is no. I passed the information as
found to the lady in the S.O.S.S. in the hope that they would do a
bit of research and come up with the answer.
As yet I have had no response from that source.
Joe.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: pavane
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 11:42 AM

Here you will find a reference to Arendina Maria Hendrika ANNOCQUÉE, A Dutch lady, probably with a French background, who lived around 1780-1810.

Annachie is presumably the same name as ANNOCQUÉE

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST,Céline La Frenière
Date: 19 Mar 13 - 02:22 PM

I am writing a novel in which one of my characters who has a beautiful voice sings the first 2 stanzas of this song. Would anyone know of a version of it, which is free from copyright? I am at a lost to know where to turn to either get permission to use the words from a modern singer or find a version which is free from copyright. Céline.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Mar 13 - 05:04 PM

Here's a version that was published in 1876:

LORD SALTOUN AND ANNACHIE

http://books.google.com/books?id=SowwAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA10

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST,Céline La Frenière
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 10:37 PM

I am extremely grateful to Jim Dixon for this useful information. I have located the old version of Lord Saltoun and Annachie, which is perfect. Sorry I didn't make contact earlier. Like Joe, I'm not too adept with IT. I couldn't locate the site. Again, thank you. Céline

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 10:52 AM

Well it was lovely to hear Joe Rae in fine form when he sang this on Saturday night in the Canon's Gait in Edinburgh; I do hope the recording he made for the School of Scottish Studies will appear on the Tobar an Dualchais website before too long.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Gutcher
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 04:02 PM

Great weekend Matthew, where else could we get wall to wall doom and gloom with never a geetar in sight.
As regards the origins of this particular ballad my researches have come to an impasse on two counts--the R.C. church require an unquantified sum for a search of their records for the Bamff/Buchan area for the period in question and what records they do have may be in latin.
As mentioned on another thread last year I have ,to my own satisfaction, narrowed down the period when the events narrated in this ballad could have occured to 1555--1600, this being the only period when Achnahie of that Ilk who by some legal means retained the designation of Achnahie after having disponed the lands of that name to Gordon of Balnakettle who by the law of Scotland should have been known as Achnahie. As we could not have two people known as Achnahie at one time, Gordon to show his territorial designation and to distinguish himself from other Gordons would have adopted the style Achnahie Gordon while Andrew Achnahie was still living.
Joe.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Gutcher
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 07:22 AM

I should have mentioned in one of my previous posts above, that in one legal document there were seven different spellings for the name Achnahie.

In the timescale mentioned, {1555--!600} for rich people, and these were rich folk, it was the custom to have what are now known as pre-nuptial agreements and these would be recorded by the church, in this case the RC church as the Gordon"s adhered to that church for a much longer period than the majority of their neighbours.

Without access to the RC records, one cannot at this time name the designation of Jeanie Gordon"s family and put a firm date as to when the marriage took place, thus giving a base date to work from and possibly having further details in the surviving records of Jeanie"s family.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 11:02 AM

Apart from hearing Joe singing since at various Scottish singing events, the first time I think I heard this song it was sung by Corrina Hewat at the "Scots Women" concert at Celtic Connections in Glasgow in 2001. It was subsequently released as a live CD on Greentrax.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 02:12 PM

Happy New Year, Joe
I always find your posts fascinating.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 10:51 PM

Is anybody there? Annachie is alive and kicking here in the USA. The "Me Too" movement won't let it die.

I'm doing my best to keep him and Jeannie alive. I've combined several versions of the lyrics in order to tell the story in a way that highlights Jeannie's

Young Jeannie is a true feminist. She resists her parents' efforts to legally prostitute her by selling her off to a wealthy old man. Jeannie remains true to herself and her chosen man, Annachie, by refusing to have sex with Lord Saulton, until her father either forces or bribes her maid to strip Jeannie's clothes off. Jeannie either collapses at her father's feet and dies for love of Annachie. More likely she slips herself the poison she has hidden in her skirts for just this purpose or maybe she simply faints, hits her head against the stone floor, and dies from her injuries. Either way, both her greedy parents and her wealthy suitor won't benefit. Unfortunately, neither will her true love, the sailor Annachie, who either commits suicide or dies of heartbreak when he learns of Jeannie's fate.

I have tried, in my interpretation, to convey Jeannie's pride, strength, and commitment to her what she understands as true love. Back in those days, any woman who stood up for her beliefs would've faced death anyway.

I hope at some point to record a version of ther song that doesn't have as many errors as this one, but it'll have to do for now.

https://www.facebook.com/cecilia.strakna/videos/vb.100001541530321/2352641784797183/?type=2&video_source=user_video_tab

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 10:55 AM

> Young Jeannie is a true feminist.

Yes, but then again ... an alternative way of looking at it was posted a while ago on the other thread.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 24 Sep 19 - 12:51 PM

Jeannie is a romantic fool. At at time when a woman's prospects depended on making a good marriage, she rejects her parents' efforts to secure her future by marrying her to a wealthy man (who treats her only with respect), instead preferring a life of poverty with a man who's left her behind to go travelling. Dying for love is romantic, but stupid. Instead she could have gone along with the marriage to Lord Saltoun while seeing young Annachie on the side - although admittedly in many ballads this often doesn't end well for one or both of the lovers.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST,diplocase
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 02:36 AM

Annie Lore, well known in San Francisco Bay Area music circles, recorded Young Auchanachie on her LP The Grey Cocked Hat, now very hard to find. I have been singing her tune since the 1970s when I learned it from her singing in Sproul Plaza at UC Berkeley (which she frequented in her sky blue RenFaire garb). Her tune is in the same family as the one Nic Jones popularized, but is not the same. I don't have her album any more, so this is close but may not be identical to Annie's very singable and memorable version:

"Oh, Buchan it is bonny, and there lies my love
My heart is fixed on him, and it winnae remove                            will not
It winnae remove, no for all that I can dae                                     can do
And I never will forsake my love, Auchanachie."

Ben come her faither, steppin on the floor                                     in
He says "Jeannie, you are trying but the tricks o a hoor
Ye care meikle for him who cares little for thee:                         meikle = muckle, much
I'd have you marry Saltoun, and leave Auchanachie.

Auchanachie Gordon is nothing but a man,
And though that he be bonny, whaur lies his free land?
Whaur lies his free land, tae keep a lady wi?
I'd have you marry Saltoun, and leave Auchanachie."

"Saltoun is a valley, low down by the sea
And he's bowed in the back, and thrawn in the knee.            thrawn = bowlegged
It's in Lord Saltoun's arms that I will never be,
And I never will forget my love Auchanachie."

But Jeannie she was wedded, and from church was brought hame
And she's called for a chamber, tae weep there her lane
Tae weep there her lane, when sae merry she should be,
Sayin "I never will forsake my love, Auchanachie."

"All you that is her maidens, ye'll loose off her gown
And you that is her maidens, ye'll cause her lie down
Ye'll cause her lie down, tae lie her bridegroom wi
And he'll cause her to forget him, this young Auchanachie."

Them that was her maidens, they loosed off her gown
But bonny Jeannie Gorden, she fell in a swoon
She fell in a swoon, low down by their knee
Sayin "I never will forsake my love Auchanachie."

That day they wedded her, and that day she died
And that day young Auchanachie come in on the tide
Cam in on the tide, returning o'er the fleed,
Cryin "Whaur is bonny Jeannie, to meet Auchanachie?"

Down cam her maidens, wringing of their hands,
Sayin "Alas for your staying sae lang frae the land!
Sae lang frae the land, and sae lang on the fleed:
They've wadded your Jeannie, and now she lies deid!"          wedded, married off

"All you that is her maidens, tak me by the hand
And lead me tae the chamber my Jeannie lies in."
He kissed her cold lips full thirty times and three
And for bonny Jeannie Gordon young Auchanachie did dee.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST,Ian Kirkpatrick
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 10:08 PM

Aunt Molly Jackson of Eastern Kentucky did a version of this song under the name Archie D. The tune is completely different from the one used today. I imagine there are not many American versions under the name Annachie though.

https://archive.org/details/AFC19390123337A

Archie D, Child 239 Anachie Gordon

Archie, D was beautiful, and easy, on the eye
He tempted, all the women, they could not, pass him by
He tempted, every woman, Just as, he tempted me
I’ll die if, I don’t get, my love, Archie D
Up spake, her old father, as he walked, by the door
Oh Jean, you’re a-playing, the tricks of, a whore

You are caring, for a man, that cares little, for thee
You must marry, Bill Shelton, and forget, Archie D
To marry, Bill Shelton, I’d rather, be dead
I’d rather marry, my Archie, and beg, for my bread
Oh Jean, you are foolish, you don’t understand
Bill Shelton, has money, and a lot of, free land

You’ll have money, for yourself Jean, and land and money, to give me
But you’ll never, have nothing, if you marry, Archie D
But I love Archie, and Archie he loves me
I’ll die if I don’t get, my love Archie D
Then up spoke her father, he spake in renown
Saying cheer up my daughter, get on your wedding gown

Go marry Bill Shelton, for ten thousand pounds
Oh cheer up my darling, and get on your wedding gown
Get ready my daughter, and go to town with me
And marry Bill Shelton, And forget this Archie D
I’ll marry no man, but my love Archie D
For I dearly love Archie, and I know he loves me

Yes I dearly love Archie, and I know he loves me
I’ll die if I don’t get, my love Archie D
Jean stepped in her chambers, and closed up her door
Saying farewell dear father, you shall see me no more
Archie may be drownded, in the blue briny sea
I’ll die if I don’t get, my love Archie D

I’m sure I can never, be Archie D’s wife
So I have decided, to end my own life
That evening Young Archie, Come home from the sea
And asked one of his maidens, where Jeannie might be
She has destroyed her life sir, because she loved thee
She destroyed her life, for the love of Archie D

Oh this is a pity, oh this is a sin
Please take me to the chamber, that my darling died in
Then she led him to the chamber, where Jean Gordon lay
He kissed her pale lips, as cold as the clay
Saying I always intended, to make her my wife
Then he kneeled down by the side of her, and ended his own life

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 11:00 AM

Hey, I know it's been years since anybody commented here, but Aunt Molly Jackson's version of the song - which is probably the first recording of it - follows the melody that Joe Rae uses very closely. His rendition is on Youtube.

Subject: RE: Origins: Annachie Gordon
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 06:43 PM

Does anybody have a recording of this melody? My music-reading abilities have sadly declined to the point where all I can do is pick out single notes on my guitar. :(