BS: Homesteading Mudcatters

Subject: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 29 May 05 - 05:23 PM

I am wondering how many of you consider yourself homesteaders and what the word homesteading means to you.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 29 May 05 - 07:41 PM

Awww...c'mon! None of you folkies live out in the woods or on a somewhat self sufficient farm? I can't believe it!!!!!!!! You can't ALL be city mice!!!!!!

Michelle the country mouse

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 May 05 - 08:05 PM

Self sufficient isn't a Homestead...homestead is free land from the gubmint you have to live on for so long and 'prove up'. Gone now....

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: bobad
Date: 29 May 05 - 08:35 PM

The old timey definition of homesteading would be living in a totally self-sufficient manner ie. providing for yourself all the necessities of life; food, shelter, clothing etc.

In this day and age I think this is next to impossible as the exigencies of modern life such as taxes, insurance, transportation (cars vs. horses) require some income - either self generated or working for the man (Bobert's Boss Hogg).

Ergo any definition of "homesteading" today implies a matter of degree of self-sufficiency.

My wife and I are living a lifestyle that is probably more self-sufficient than that of most city dwellers ( 95% of the population of North America).

We live on 75 acres of land about half of which is in hay and the rest woods and bog. The hay land we let out on a barter basis as we do not keep animals. We maintain a large organic garden which provides us with all our vegetable requirements for the year round which we preserve by freezing, root cellaring and pickling.

We both work out on a part time basis (two days a week for me, two and a half for my wife). Between the two of us we bring in enough to pay the bills and yet have enough time to ourselves to pursue those things that we really want to do. There is never a shortage of chores around the old homestead from cutting and splitting firewood to heat us during those cold Canadian winters to maintaining the property and 120 year old buildings.

Our philosophy of life is to try and live in harmony with nature as much as possible and get our satisfaction from the environment around us rather than from accumulating possessions.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: bobad
Date: 30 May 05 - 04:08 PM

Well LilyF

Looks like there's only two of us here.

I'd like to hear about how you're doing it.

b

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 05 - 05:33 PM

I'm curious what you will do when you can no longer physically do the work to maintain your country lifestyle? That's always been one of the biggest barriers to the back to the lander thing for me. What happens when you get too old to do it anymore? Or too sick?

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 May 05 - 08:24 PM

Hopefully you have kids who are interestd...or you just die and hope somebody finds you.

Bo and Lily, what do you do about meat? Since Bo doesn't keep animals, do you hunt? Do your own killing and butchering or just not eat it?

We garden and hunt. Do our own butchering for the hunting but also buy meat and other groceries.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 05 - 08:49 PM

what the word homesteading means to you.

Means you are American to me, although apparently according to my dictionary, in terms of government land it could also be Australian. I would translate it as small holding/ small holder.

We are not but Pip is a keen gardener and I would guess 70% of our veg is home grown and we also have a couple of hens which keep us in eggs most of the while.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 30 May 05 - 09:13 PM

I understand the historical definition of homesteading but I think it has also taken on a new meaning to many people. For me, it means taking care of ourselves as much as possible without having to rely on others very often. I regret to say that we are a far cry from being self sufficient. My husband still has a job outside the home and it's likely that I will as well when school is finished. Ideally, we would love to stay home, raise everything we need and be able to survive fairly well. We do have a home business but as of now, it is not self supporting due to the fact that we have minimal time to tend to it.


My goal is to be much more self sufficient than we already are. Currently we raise much of our own meat and grow a good deal of our veggies. We have 24 hens and have an abundant supply of eggs.
I can do some simple sewing and am working on learning more. We heat with wood and have some solar panels to try out as a means of alternative energy. It all happens in slow steps, learning as we go.

As far as getting older and how all that works....good question. We are both in our 30's so we have lots of time to figure all that out. In the meantime, it's relaxing, it's hard work, it's a learning experience, it's fun and it's interesting. It feels wonderful to make a meal knowing that we raised it....veggies/fruit/meat..whatever.

Yeah, we go to the store and buy groceries but as time goes on we are finding that we can provide more and more of our own.

Friends and neighbors are a great resource and help contribute to our success. Just this weekend, we were given a truckload of manure to fertilize the garden. I know it might sound weird to be excited about a truckload of doo...but it was a VERY welcomed gift! In return, we will share our veggies and eggs with those fine folks. In the fall, or whenever we butcher pigs next, we'll share some of that as well. It's all give and take.....and I prefer it that way.

Anybody else?

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST,bobad
Date: 30 May 05 - 09:55 PM

As far as getting too old or sick to maintain a "country lifestyle" I don't see it as being very different than for someone living in the city, except for the driving aspect, as a vehicle is a necessity, when you can no longer produce what you need you go out and buy it like everyone else does.

I've also been working on developing the concept of a retirement commune where like minded people could live together and provide for each other instead of paying a for profit agency to do it for you.

Sorcha, what meat we do eat we usually purchase or obtain via barter for our hay. I have in the past raised and butchered my own meat and kept laying hens but having high cholesterol and a wife who is very sensitive and loving to all living things has reduced our meat and egg consumption to where it's just not worth the effort.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 30 May 05 - 10:59 PM

I'm an old "homesteader" who now lives in the city. I return to my little island paradise every summer to visit my friends and family. We are very close because we helped each other and raised our kids together. Now that we are all nearing the 60's mark, I can answer a few questions about growing old when you are isolated from the mainland (cities) and the work gets to be too much like work.

For one thing the gardens become more simplified. You no longer need to grow as much because you don't have all those hungry mouths to feed. Besides that, the soil has been cultivated for so long, its not such hard work.

Work hard when you are young so that when you are older you just have to maintain what you have built. Keep it simple.

Do yoga so that you remain limber. Its the best way to prevent injury and also helps you to remain young and flexible.

Practice preventative medicine. Take care of your teeth.

Raise rabbits for meat.

Some people are selling the big homestead and downsizing to small cabins with great views.

Cluster housing is being developed so that people can share trucks, tools, and gardens.

Last but not least - hope that you have at least one child that wants to stay close and continue with the lifestyle. That child will be a big help as you get older. (I'm not sure about this because it almost seems as if some people almost nurture this co-dependence as they are raising their children. They seem to have this decided long before the children can decide for themselves, ie: This community is too small for Larry but Moe seems to like it just fine or Mary would never be happy with anyone other than an island boy.)

Good luck to you. There is nothing like taking care of yourselves and breaking your dependence on a life of material gain.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: number 6
Date: 30 May 05 - 11:26 PM

City, er the townie life for me. I prefer to work for wages.

I do think that we should go back to the time when either we had to farm or fish to substain our livlihood. It would certainly cure a lot of the trivial whining one hears. It would make one appreciate the power nature that's for sure. No time to be bored. No time to wonder how we are ever going to get organized. No time to worry about our relationships. No time to figure out our lifestyle. No time wonder what the hell we are going to do on our vacation. Our time would be occupied with ... just living.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 05 - 11:48 PM

This is an interesting thread. When I first saw LilyFestre's thread title I thought, "Yeah. Good luck with that. Y'ever try to herd cats?"

However, it's neat to see so many folks posting who have experience with living, working for their sustenance and knowing the land that provides it for them. It take special people to do that.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Metchosin
Date: 31 May 05 - 01:08 AM

How about almost a homesteader? We bought a piece of bush over 30 years ago in what was considered then, the back of beyond. We cleared a building site, built a shed and lived in it for 2 years without the niceties of indoor plumbing and running water, while we constructed our house.....does that count?

Our DIY house project, which included recycled material and everything from mixing the concrete with a cement mixer for the foundation to shaking the roof, has been ongoing, with various extension and renovations ever since.

We never considered being self sufficient, but we had a small kitchen garden and some chickens when the kids were young. And when we get around to resurrecting the deer fence, manage to sort of complete the place and have a little more spare time, we'll likely consider some garden expansion. It might be wise, I have a lovely large pile of horse manure here, that will probably outlast me.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: open mike
Date: 31 May 05 - 01:48 AM

well I guess I would call Rural Living what i do. I have

no livestock, (except dog, cats, canaries and a few stick insects)

although i hope to have chickens some day, but my dog has killed

the neighbors' and so it might be quite a challenge to have them.

i do have fruit trees, and heat with wood and have solar panels to

provide some of the electric needs. My former house, for 25+ years

was off-the-grid with solar and hydro power. I share this land with

8 partners, and we live in community. I would be interested in knowing if any other catters live in collective, co-operative or
other group arrangements.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: open mike
Date: 31 May 05 - 06:08 PM

the reason no one posted to this thread at first is because
homnesteading was land given for free and that is not available
these days!@

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 31 May 05 - 06:15 PM

I think the term homesteading has taken on a new meaning for many people...all you have to do is take a look at any Countryside, Backwoods Home or similar magazine.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: jaze
Date: 31 May 05 - 08:26 PM

As far as aging goes, author/illustrator Tasha Tudor has been living the rural,self sufficient lifestyle for many years. She's now close to 90 and lives alone. I'm sure her kids help some, but she works hard at it nevertheless. There's inspiration.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 31 May 05 - 09:29 PM

Does Tasha Tudor chop her own wood to heat her home, and haul her own water at age 90? I'm guessing she has a little help around her homestead.

Back in my youth, I not only chopped the wood for our wood heated home, but I hauled the water we used too--we had just an outhouse, and no plumbing.

What I discovered is that people romanticize really stupid stuff, like back breaking work, which is what the whole "back to the land" movement did, IMO. Went down that whole "self-sufficiency equals integrity" load of BS. I followed for a brief time (a little over a year and a half), and decided technology was a brilliant thing--and moved on into energy efficient building instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 05 - 09:32 PM

Does anyone have any tips or knowledge garnered from their experiences they'd care to share ?

I can offer a tip on blanching veggies for freezing. We have been using the microwave and find it produces superior results producing a tastier product while saving energy, time and sweat over a large pot of boiling water during the hottest days of the summer.

After nuking the veg (times and quantities can probably found on the web, if not I have tables I can share with you) we plunge into ice H2O then shake off excess and lay out on towels to drain and dry a little. After this we simply spread in one layer on trays (we use the cardboard trays that cans of pop come on) and place in freezer. Once they freeze up we throw them into baggies and seal, this way they stay separate and you can just take out as much as you want for each meal.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Cuilionn (no biscuit, sorry)
Date: 31 May 05 - 10:11 PM

Perhaps the reason folks are slow to post is that we are too busy mucking out the byres & tending our various gardens & menageries?

It's the end of May and weather has been so cold and wet that we can't even get the garden planted yet. Our house has wood heat and we can't get it warm enough inside to start seedlings... and being homesteaders, we live too close to subsistance to buy any fancy extras like those seedling-tray heater mats they sell in the yuppie garden catalogs.

We have forty acres... no mule. We've been trying to save money to buy Scottish Highland cattle for three years, but my car accident wiped out the cow fund. We tried to buy piglets from another farmer, but it was the sow's first litter and she rolled over & squashed 'em all. Our next attempt? Guinea Fowl-- we're on the wait list for the big order that's coming in soon at the local feed store. We'll see...

On the bright side, we scavenged enough lumber to build a henhouse this last weekend... and they say it might get up to 65 degrees (farenheit)tomorrow, on the first of June, after two weeks of grey skies and temps in the 40s & 50s.

I love the work of homesteading in spite of the way it breaks my heart-- and my back-- over and over again. I love being able to choose from 14 kinds of heirloom tomatoes in September, be able to walk our woods in May to find trilliums (trillia?) and jack-in-the-pulpits growing boldly and peacefully in ground that will never be disturbed. I love seeing a flock of forty wild turkeys stroll, dignified, across the fields, even though I know they're planning to devour the newly-planted cover crop. Mostly I love living in the hope that, somehow, we'll hold this place together, feed ourselves, build a better house someday, and not hurt anyone else or the earth too terribly in the process.

(Of course, if I could figure out a way to get paid for all the folk/cultural work I do, maybe we could afford animals and a better house and all sorts of lovely homesteader gadgets... oooh, time to go write another grant application, methinks!)

Blessings to all who tend their homes in good stead...

   --Cuilionn (in a falling-down house on a dirt road, somewhere in Maine, USA)

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 31 May 05 - 10:42 PM

tips:

Rhubarb - For those that are allergic to oxalic acid or prefer a milder sauce. Chop the rhubarb and place in a big bowl or pot. Pour boiling water to cover it. Let it sit for 5 minutes and drain it. This releases the oxalic acid and leaves the rhubard ready for preparation. You do not need to use as much sugar with this method.

Blackberries - Canned for those bleak winter mornings. Run boiling water around the rims of qt. canning jars. Place them in an open cardboard box. Pick the berries right into the jars. Return to kitchen and spoon into each jar a couple of big Tablespoons of sugar. Twist on the lids and give them a hot water bath to seal. Never had any trouble with this method because blackberries are so high in acid. Delicious on yogurt.

Go to bed when it gets dark and get up with the sun.

Good luck to you and enjoy the rhythm of life.

You may not have much money but you have time and how you spend that time is largely dependent on the weather. Its far easier than waking up to an alarm and meeting arbitrary deadlines set by people who are running on empty. Even if you decide to do something else with your life later on, you will always be able to sustain yourself with what you learned on the homestead.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 May 05 - 10:58 PM

Open Mike, I'll bet that I'm not alone in being interested in hearing more about your partnered community. Would you like to start a separate thread? I have a lot of questions.

About four hours away by ferry, there is a island religious community simply called 'The Farm'. I got to meet one of the women one day and we talked at some length.

However, the religious aspect is enough to keep me at a distance, so I didn't get too deeply into the subject with her.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: open mike
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 01:15 AM

no seperate thread, but i have posted this before---somewhere...
maybe in the mud cat rest home/retirement home thread years ago??

we have 50 acres, there are 8 partners and we have been here for
over 30 years! we do not have a common religion, or guru, our
main thing we have in common is the land. We have orchards,
gardens, a sauna, and pond in common. We are located in the foothills
about an hour from the closest town. we are about a half a mile
from the nearest paved road, and 7 miles from the highway. There is almost one mile of gravel driveway here. We have quarterly meetings
where we decide on issues reagrding maintaining the land, roads,
bridges, etc, and other topics of personal interest. We have a
partnership agreement which came about thru many long, involved
meetings were we tried to come to agreement on policies, rules
and group decisions. We do not require consensus, as some groups
do.

Some of us are self employed, others commute to town to work.
For 20 years many of us were involved in a benefit event--
music, food, and crafts booths, the proceeds of which went
to support local projects at the school, newspaper, summer
camp, fire department, etc.

i suggest you check out Communities Magazine, the Co-Housing
movement and Fellowship for Intentional Community for more
info.

Communities magazine
JOURNAL OF COOPERATIVE LIVING
http://fic.ic.org/cmag/cmaglist.html

Intentional Communities Web Site: Home Page
Provides information and resources for seekers of community, including large directory, classified ads, Communities Magazine, Communities Directory, ...
www.ic.org/

see also: www.cohousing.org/

I lived at a neighboring community for years (in a tipi) and
there we helped publish Communities Magazine over 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 09:15 AM

Nice, but....

I've seen it. In fact, I see it every day here, every day when the Shoshone and Bannock come into the library from the reservation. With 45% unemployment they "roll their own" or die, slowly, from taking handouts.

I've dealt with the guy who, back in the '70s, moved to Alaska to "get back to the land." A year later I saw him again and asked him how it was going. He told me he was working as a programmer for Sohio (petroleum company, now defunct) -- "You gotta work at least 14 hours a day, man! Screw that!"

Or the guy who insisted that we get books on home slaughtering and butchering so that come Fall he could "do" his own pig. We did and when the day came he was ready. Later, I asked him how it went. "Took it to the packing house." "I thought you were going to...." "Look! Them things ain't empty, okay?"

But then, there have been the days when I've eaten the veggies I've grown myself or foraged, the berries I picked and my mother canned, the game we shot and dressed ourselves, the fish we've caught....

But then, when growing up we had damned little money -- for my family, a rifle behind the door meant meat on the table; a knowledge of wild mushrooms and how to feed chickens and grow potatoes meant the difference between just enough and not quite.

But don't get bogged down in romance. As everyone who has been there knows, it's hard work.

And no, I haven't opted out of the "homestead" ideal. I've just realistic about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 06:28 PM

If you google 'Homesteading' you'll see that the term no longer is resrticted in it's meaning to the historical giveaway of land. I subscribe to several 'Homesteading' magazineas and publications and consider myself an 'Urban Homesteader.' I am trying to coinvince my husband to let me have some laying hens but that's not going as well as I had hoped.

Urban Homesteaders try to create a lifestyle where they are as self-sufficent as possible in terms of power, produce, fruit, dairy, clothing and other such things.Many Urban Homesteaders commute via Bicyle or use Hybrid cars. We are interested in something called 'Hygridding' which is being hooked up to the Power grid but utlizing as much solar and alternative power as possible, sometimes selling power back to the utilty. Laws vary about that from place to place.

I am just getting started Homesteading in an Urban Environment. I am growing more and more of my own vegetables but California has odd laws about fruit tress which I've yet to master. We can't import them and what's available locally leaves much to be desired. Urban Homesteading takes time. Not every community is open to City Dwellers having a Milk Goar or laying hens even if the local codes permit it.

I'm working on it. I hope this thread stays active. I have always been one to do my own sewing and mending and it seems to me the Homesteading lifestyle is just an extension of traditional womens arts combined with other sensible practices

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 08:20 PM

Homesteading IS hard work, but for many, including myself, it is ENJOYABLE work. :)

s'cuse me now, time to go collect the eggs....

:)

Michelle

PS. I hope this thead stays open and active too. It's nice to hear about what others are doing and interesting tips from others. :)

PSS. Cuillion, what part of Maine are you from? Any chance you are from northern Maine?

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Joybell
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 09:35 PM

We qualify I guess, though we aren't as self-sufficient as we'd like to be. We started a bit late. We share produce and raw materials (like animal manure and worms) with friends in the little town 15 kms away and with our widely scattered neighbours. Many people, around us, who've been on the land all their lives stay on when they become quite frail. In some ways there's a better support service here than in the city. A network of friends is more important here out Bush. You depend on each other. We love the isolation and the peace. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 09:44 PM

Now don't get me wrong. I'm trying to get a nice garden started, and I really prefer GOOD meat to the...stuff...I can get in stores. Which is why I try to eat stuff like bison (buffalo) or elk (and both are farm-raised out here) or wild salmon. But I've only been in the house 18 months and other things have had to take priority.

I want folks to go into with their eyes wide open instead of the starry-eyed romanticism of the 1970s.

Were I to have my way, you wouldn't eat meat you didn't kill and butcher yourself (or help to kill and butcher), or veggies you didn't grow or help to grow.

But that's REALLY romantic. And a lot of people would starve.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 11:50 PM

And if they didn't starve, they'd be vegetarians at the very least! I'd be one of them! I call the butcher to come get our pigs/cow when the time is right although I can recall one very hot sticky humid evening when the pigs got out and we had been chasing them for hours....if I would have had my gun, I would have shot them myself **(&)*&%^#$@!@&%$()&**(*!!!!!!!!!

Tomorrow the planting begins!!!! :)

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 02:02 AM

Joybell is right about the support given to the elderly and frail in a small community. I could give many examples but will keep it short by stating that the elderly are honoured and the frail and sick recieve compassion and support. Those that choose to stay seem to be more than happy to be surrounded by love and would probably die immediately if they had to go somewhere and live anonymously.

Although I have no plans to return on a permanent basis, it is the young people who encourage me to do so. It makes me feel as if I have worth to them when they offer support. I think that is what I miss the most - the young folks who express the desire to include you in their lives. Its amazing to me that they bother with me at all but they do. Even here in the city, they stop by to mow the lawn and/or offer their services. These are the kids I have known since the day they were born. Not related by blood but by a common bond and respect for one another.

Rapaire - I was a starry eyed romantic and still am. Some people make it and some people don't. If you don't enjoy physical labour, you probably won't. I would encourage anyone to give it a try. You can always change your mind and move back to the city. Its not like the city is going to go away anytime soon.

That said, the reality of butchering is enough to make anyone a vegetarian. Gutting fish doesn't bother me though and shellfish...well thats just easy living.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 11:37 AM

For anyone who hasn't, I recommend reading Helen and Scott Nearing's books and checking out their life's work.

The Good Life

The Good Life Center

Scott died at the age of 100. Not because there was particularly anything wrong with him, but because he felt that 100 years was long enough.

I was a part of the back to the land movement some number of years ago, and I would guess that we were probably about two-thirds self-sufficient. I had to move into town when my ex-husband and I split up and I found myself raising my son mostly on my own. It is a good life, and I would do it again if I could. I especially like the approach taken by Open Mike and people like her.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 12:16 PM

A friend told me once that the problem with living off the beaten path is that just the mechanics of living took all his time.

His plan was to write a book while he was removed from the hectic pace he had set for himself in town. He said that by 8:00 at night (actually, he said 6:00 *G*) he was ready for bed and had no energy for thinking. In that whole year and a half, he wrote about three chapters- and two of those chapters he wrote at one sitting.

On the other hand, just living is what it all boils down to, no matter where you are so if life means getting up at 4:00 AM to start the fire so that you can go about your business by 7:00, I guess that is what you do.

My point is that spending your time alonside your spouse and your kids in hands-on work to support yourself and your lifestyle is more rigorous, certainly, than getting up at 5:00 in order to be at the office by 7:30 so you can get home by 5:00 to get dinner and talk with your kids and your spouse so you can be in bed by 9:00 but it is not necessarily less satisfying.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 12:31 PM

When the kids were small we had a HUGE garden, about 60' square. We grew everything except sweet corn which was in the field beside the house. (You can tell the difference by the colour of the tassels). I froze, canned, dried, etc nearly all our vegetables. Mr would get as many hunting permits as he was allowed and so would all our friends. We have always butchered our own wild meat, as you can't trust the packing houses to give you back your own critter!

Antelope (NA Pronghorn) in particular MUST be dressed out properly in order for the musk scent to not contaminate the meat. I think the only store bought meat the kids had until they were 6 or so was chicken.

We have moved since then, into town and the kids are both gone. Garden is scaled way back, but Mr still hunts and we still butcher in our kitchen. I buy more produce now just because it's easier for only the 2 of us. I also buy beef, pork and chicken because it's not feasible to have livestock in the city limits, even if it is just a small town. Against code too...

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 05:09 PM

My parents led the "Good Life" in Chenago Forks on 100 acres replete with fruit trees vegetable gardens, milk house, barn and main house built in 1845. My mother went so far as to raise bees for honey and won NYS first prize. She also would spin all her own yarn from all sorts of fibers including sheep, dog, melon fibers etc. One misbegotten adventure was her attempt at raising a genetic cross between chickens and turkys called Turkins. Funny looking yes but inedible. You could pressure cook them for 2 hours but the flesh was still rock hard.

Up by the stair step stream were big turtles and glow in the dark vegetation. Down in the hay fields you could surprise deer poking about the tall grass.

Dad would split the firewood which feed the cook stove, Franklin furnace and fireplace. Best of all the wood pile was home to forlorn looking possum.

There was phone (party line), electricity and gas and even a gas tank and pump at the end of the driveway but still all in all it was pretty rustic. Even the smallest intrusion of civilization could seem like an attack.
Mom had just hooked up an antique wall phone the day before a telephone man arrived and scurried up a pole near the house. Thinking the telephone company was discconecting them over the additional phone she ran and told my father. He was puzzled but sprang to action. He went out to his truck and took the keys out of the phone truck. A minute later there was a phone call my dad answered out of breath and said right off the bat "I've got your keys so you best just leave our line alone". After two more phone calls and a degree of decorum restored it was explained that the phone service was merely being upgraded from party line servide to private.

Sometimes the boondocks can get the best of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 05:12 PM

PS
The mittens she made from Collie yarn were soft as cashmere...but once they got wet the stink of wet dog was overwhelming.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 08:41 PM

Good one, Don!

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 03:30 PM

GREAT THREAD, please keep it going! And, THANKS!

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:12 PM

Since this thread has been resurrected how's about some updates on the current season from all you homesteaders out there.

In my neck of the woods just as soon as everything got planted we had a protracted heat spell. That was followed by a lengthy wet spell which has just ended.

Everything in the garden has hardened off and is beginning to take off.The asparagus is tapering off and we've been eating lettuce, some herbs and edible pod peas are ready to go . The radishes didn't do too well though this season. We seem to have problems with them some years and other times they do great - can't seem to figure that out.

The hay is ready to be cut, just waiting for a run of hot sunny weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:17 AM

My uncle is really into this and it's extremely hard work. He spends the bulk of his waking hours working and planning on how he's going to survive today and the day after. It's crucial that he plan carefully and try to anticipate his needs in the winter so that he can survive to the spring. He provides for most of his needs himself, but for those things he can't provide, he works out some sort of trade using the barter system. Those things he can't get through trade, he buys. His total cash outlay for one month was $7.00.

Thing is, he's an artist, and a damned good one. I have one of his paintings. That was before he got way into being self-sufficient. Now he has no time to create. Surviving takes up all his time. But hey, he loves it and seems happy. He takes pride in not having to work for someone else or rely on a paycheck to acquire the things he can mostly make with better quality for himself, so who's to judge?

If Michaelangelo or da Vinci, or Van Gogh - or any other great artist that comes to mind in any endeavor of artistic creativity you care to mention - had had to spend as much time as my uncle to ensure their survival and to provide themselves the necessities needed to merely sustain life, I wonder, would the Sistine Chapel ever have gotten painted? Would we have today the divine luxury of being intrigued by Mona Lisa's smile? Would Van Gogh have had time to be inspired by the night sky, or would he have been too tired to paint "Starry Night?"

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:32 AM

In answer to your last paragraph; No. Thats why they had patrons.

So many artists think that if they "go back to the land" and get away from the rat race, their creativity will soar. Well, it does, its just that their creative energy goes into other endeavors, mainly survival.

I must say, however, many of my friends have struggled to build their homes and figure out how to survive for the last 20 years and are now quite comfortable and producing great art once again. I guess you call it short term pain for long term gain.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:44 AM

Alaska was probably the last state that offered free land for homesteading. I know many people up here who homesteaded their land which was given to them by the state. Although free land is no longer offered, there are still quite a few parcels up here that are in nice areas with road access offered at reasonable prices. (i.e. 10 acres for $8,000).

I know most of you think we are crazy to live here, but you only have to experience the lifestyle here for a short while before you really get hooked on it. There is unlimited open lands for recreation, hunting, fishing, searching for minerals (not just gold). Many folks up here live a subsistance lifestyle and do it well. The state allows residents to harvest moose, caribou, bear and fish (including 4 species of wild salmon). In short, it is still very possible for someone to come to Alaska and live their subsistance dream.

As for me though, I work full time as a state inspector. My wife works full time also and we are saving and planning so that in 4.5 years we can retire from the working world with a decent pension and good health insurance for the rest of our lives. I love my job. It allows me to travel to most of the remote parts of Alaska and experience the beauty and splendor of the 49th state. And it pays well enough that I can occasionally take a good vacation and see my friends in Maryland, Arizona, California and (this year) England. I think I'll keep my subsistance activities confined to dragging an occasional salmon or halibut out of the water and buying my Cheerios down at the grocery store.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 01:30 AM

I would also like to mention that some of the hand built houses are works of art - never mind the gardens. The gardens represent a living canvas. They are incredible!

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 01:19 PM

I'd like to think I qualify. Mouch of my homesteading occurs in my mind though. I live on a quarter acre in the capital city but manage to make my own wine and beer, cheese, pickles, bread and other such. I grow heirloom tomatoes and beans and this year I have a swop thing going on with friends and neighbours so I can have access to basil plants (which will not grow for me, little bastards) etc. I have seven apple trees, a crab apple so there's lots of cider and enough fruit spare to give to the local food bank (900lbs of apples and 200 of pears last year). I work in an office for the gubmint and I manage to find time for all the other stuff. And music. I like nothing better than sitting in the sun on the deck reading lark Rise to Candleford. Last week I re-read for the dozenth time John Seymour's 'Fat of the Land.' He started 'back to the land' for many people. Last I heard he was 90 and setting fire to Monsanto canola crops in Ireland. Anyone know him?

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:50 PM

Growing your own basil isn't all it's cracked up to be. In the winter time, we have, in the past, brought the plants inside. BIG MISTAKE..they smell like cat pee....YICK. I'll grow my basil outside the best I can...stupid plants don't like me either....and dry what I need instead of trying to keep the plant growing and using fresh basil all winter...that smell just is NOT worth it.

My homestead is overgrown at the moment...tractor isn't working right and when time allows, that will be fixed. In the meantime, the essential parts of the yard have been cut with a week whacker so as to avoid snakes on the path to the barn, chicken house, etc.

The garden is planted with plans for a bean tepee to go up tomorrow night. The tomatoes have really taken off as have several of the herbs and watermelon. The chickens were laying 12-17 eggs a day, enter heat wave. The laying has slowed down, so we are stepping up the laying mash and have added fresh dirt to their scratching yard. I have read that sometimes the soil becomes depleted of the minerals and just needs a new layer. Our front field is FULL of wild blackberries...can't wait for them to be ready to pick. I'd say we have about 4 to 5 times more than we have ever had before. I think this has to do with having the field brush-hogged....did everything a world of good. I'm not seeing so many strawberries this year. The apple trees are loaded with blossoms and the younger trees seeming to have made it through the winter fairly well. We lost 3 trees to rabbits/deer but that was our own fault for now fencing around them to protect the bark and tender branches. We also lost 3 hens to the high humidity and temperatures about 2 weeks ago. A fan has since been added to the henhouse to help circulate the air. They have a screened in window and an open door to the outside 24/7 but they all seem to have wanted to huddle in the henhouse when it was so hot...not sure why. We opened the door to collect eggs and a dead hen fell out.....not good. Not good at all.

I planted some flowers...the wave petunias are new this year....I'm curious to see just how much they will spread out!

That's all for now....
Signing off from Elderberry Lane....

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 12:41 PM

And, I love the smell of basil! Never had any trouble growing it either. I freeze mine (what doesn't turn into pesto). Much less flavour loss than drying.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 02:14 PM

Speaking of cat pee, the molecules respondisible for that smell are also in many pine trees. This was discovered in a detailed chemical analysis of wines. When those molecules are in wine they have a special name for the cat pee oder.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 04:41 PM

Sorcha,

   Funny enough, I love the smell of fresh basil that has been picked and is in my kitchen. I was really surprised with the smell of the plant. I had it on a table behind my recliner this winter and kept smelling something AWFUL. I looked and looked and expected to find that one of the cats had an accident or something. It was the plant. I even changed the dirt thinking maybe the cats got in it (not their normal behavior by far) but it was that stinkin' plant. Maybe it was that particular variety...dunno...but YUCK!

I spotted tomato flowers today...WOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!

Michelle

PS. Donuel, did they find it in a mass spec?

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: jpk
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 05:00 PM

homestedin;i grew up a part of my life as a swamp rat in nfla an south ga,how do you stake a cliam to a patch of peat moss thats always movin on the almost indectable currents.can't homestead the land ifin they ain't none.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: jpk
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 05:04 PM

nothing personel,just feel kinda sorry fer all you flatlanders tain't had the chance to live else where or else when,i left it for the mouitans of idaho but still love it.

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 05:20 PM

We found that, much as we love each other, we couldn't stand being around each other 24-7, and also that the social isolation was very unhealthy for us. This surprised us, because we are both very introverted people. We both got a little loco. Were I younger, I perhaps would try again, but only in the context of a lively and diverse community of people.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 05:43 PM

Why would you think homesteading meant being together 24/7? I had never thought of it that way and find that viewpoint interesting.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 06:19 PM

Michelle--It was not the "homesteading" per se, but our particular circumstance. Hubby has got major attentional "issues" and requires the psychic presence of some one nearby to be able to focus and complete tasks. It drove me nuts. We lived in a very isolated area. We lived very primitively--much more so than most "homesteaders." We also worked together wildcrafting, making and selling medicinal herbs, teas, potpourris, and drums at arts & crafts shows.

I learned alot from that experience, and don't regret trying it, but I have few fond memories of it. Life just seemed very, very, hard.
Hubby, on the other hand, loved it. He should have been a fur trapper in the Rockies in the 1820's.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 06:40 PM

Ok..that makes more sense to me. We aren't home all the time as my husband works a great deal and I am in school. Our goal is to be able to be here for the majority of the time....eventually. So for now, we do what we can to make the most of our little homestead (as can be read about up above)....but even when we are home, we aren't necessarily together. That's the part I wasn't understanding...not sure I understand entirely now either, but it's close enough! :)

So do you live in a small community now or a city and do you still garden or do anything like that?

I know several folks who live in the cities and still try to garden or maintain some roots connected to country living.

I started when I lived in Providence, Rhode Island. I had a third floor apartment in the slums...I planted lots of veggies (especially tomatoes) in containers and placed them on the floor wherever the sun shined in. You had to do an elaborate dance to get through the kitchen...but hey...I was happy! :)

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 07:06 PM

Oh yes, I LIVE to garden--both veggies and flowers. I live in a historic village of 5000 called Hillsborough, near Chapel Hill and Durham, NC. We are from West Virginia, where we "homesteaded," but have been in NC for almost 20 years now. I tried growing flowers commercially for a few years, but couldn't afford to irrigate with city water, and didn't make enough $$ to justify drilling a well. Some years I still sell flowers and produce at the local farmers market. However, I work full time as a clinical social worker and have an 11 year old 'change-0f-life" youngin' so I am pretty pressed for time (who isn't, really!). We have 10 acres of what used to be an old tobacco farm about 15 miles out of town. When I retire I hope to be able to do some small scale commercial farming out there. There is a good market for organic produce here, and that land has been fallow for at least 15 years.

The creek behind our house empties into the Eno river a few blocks from here. If forms a little greenway for deer, fox, wild turkey, etc. to move through. I have more problems with groundhogs in the garden here than I ever had out in the country!

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 10:13 AM

Michelle, I've noticed the same thing with basil plants. I love the smell of cut basil leaves, but one day I was standing near where I had some plants growing in an old laundry tub, and I noticed a smell like cat pee. When I sniffed these plants, that was where the smell was. I thought it might have been the cats, but no, it was the plants.

Obviously a little bit of the smell is nice, but when it gets stronger, it's more like cat pee. And I hate the smell of cat pee. I was thinking of bringing some of my basil plants inside, but now that you've reminded me, I think I won't.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Inero
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 11:50 AM

Interesting thread.
My wife and I have sort of homesteaded since we fled the city in '88. The land wasn't free but we managed to buy a square mile (640 acres)in Manitoba, Canada for (Can)$30K (less than $50 an acre) 80km north of the provincial capital. It's no use for farming or gardening, so I discovered (rocks, two fingers of soil, late frosts in spring and early in fall, the deer and rabbits eat anything you try to grow). It's mostly aspen poplar woodland, some scrub oak, and lots of wetland with beaver. What we like is that this section has never been cleared for grazing or lumber. There are some parts where the bush is so thick I've not walked on them, and I bet no one has ever has.
We live simple, make everything from scratch, built the house and finished the ceiling and trim with poplar boards chainsawed from our tress, the kitchen cabinets too. Can't get tv (need a 60' tower to get above the trees). The only animals, other than the black bears, coyotes, wolves and birds, are our twenty-six arctic sled dogs in big runs. For them and us winter can't come soon enough!
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Willie-O
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 12:50 PM

I wonder where "homesteading" got to be defined as "gardening a lot"...or for that matter "not depending on other people"--I'm not sure that's desirable or possible. We bought 7 acres in the Ottawa Valley 18 years ago. It had a creek on it and no buildings. We built a house and shop, never had much production from the garden--but in the past years a Troy-Bilt tiller entered our lives at an auction, and spent so much money fixing it up that we had to start a new garden down near the highway where there's lots of light and better soil. Besides, it entertains the neighbours who are alwys pulling over to chat whenever they see us there.

That's part of the package. Rest of the package is that we both work, have two vehicles (most important part of our "avoid-divorce" strategy) and two teenagers (who seem to be neither avid woodhewers and gardeners, nor completely allergic to same), so we use the highways, schools, health care system, and family allowance cheques as much as anyone else. It's just a different place to live than in a town or city.

I still think we homesteaded though, cause we did it all from the ground up--with help from society, family, and the unaccountable continuation of the economy.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: Janie
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 03:37 PM

I think you're right Bill, and in this thread homesteading seems to refer more to country living than homesteading. But hey--still makes for some interesting interchanges. Indeed, what my husband and I did back in the "bad ol' days" was more akin to "base camping" than homesteading.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Homesteading Mudcatters
From: LilyFestre
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:47 PM

Yes, it has been established what the historical meaning of homesteading has been, however, if you were to take a look at any type of country living magazine (I'm talking farming...not cute little cottages full of knick knack crap), you'll see the term homesteading used alot in reference to raising much of your own food, being frugal with what you have, making things from scratch, using alternative energy sources, etc.

Michelle