Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Chic
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 10:41 PM

on the other hand...

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:17 PM

Yes it is pathetic, Guest, G. Too bad it's true. As I said before, the Bush people even had FEMA hire a political advisor just for those hurricanes. I bet they didn't have FEMA hire a political advisor just for Katrina.

But tonight Bush gave the speech he needed to give. Hopefully he'll follow through on what he said.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: TIA
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 08:49 AM

Typical example - the "2000 buses available but not used" lie has been thoroughly disproven, but still gets trotted out by the Bush newsthugs (Hannity et al.). Can't imagine where G gets his information.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 09:32 AM

Regarding the arguement that Bush did nothing and was responsible for everything, it has been put forward with two posts, that the Governor is abdicated of responsibility due to, one a letter asking for help on the 27th and second a quote from the National Response Plan.

This arguement is fundamentally flawed due to the misconception of the relationship between stating a 'disaster' and the implementation of National Response Plan.

On August 27th, the Bush administration did in fact state an emergency and opened up federal resources.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/12494800.htm

The National Response Plan that has been quoted can only be invoked by the Secretary of DHS. This was done on Aug. 31.

Chertoff declared the disaster as a 'Incident of National Significance' late the 30th.

Even if they declared this disaster a 'Incident of National Significance' on the 27th, the Federal Government could not send in Federal Troops for law enforcement.



What the Federal government can not do is storm into a state with Federal troops and do law enforcement duties unless either asked by the state or if there is an insurrection. I have mentioned the Posse Comitatus Act before and have not received any discussion on why it would not apply to this situation. It is clear that the primary responsibility is local. And That means when the lawlessness occured and was not controlled by NOPD, it fell to the Governor to order the National Guard.

I would also mention that the Governor correctly fended off the administratoins attempts to federalize the National Guard during the meeting of the infamous "she said she needs 24 hours". This was a power grab by the feds and should be resisted. But, it does not absolve her responsibility in commanding those same National Guard.


" Question: One thing we haven't heard yet are the steps you'll be taking for security against the looting that seems to be expanding in the region.

Secretary Chertoff: I believe I'll call on Paul McHale to talk a little bit about the National Guard's role and DOD's role.

Assistant Secretary McHale: Obviously, the first point we emphasize is that law enforcement and local security is, first and foremost, a matter of civilian law enforcement capabilities. We in the military provide certain backup capabilities, but the first line of defense against criminal conduct is provided by our law enforcement agencies at all levels of government -- state, local and federal.

If, for some reason it does appear the level of criminal threat exceeds the immediate capability of civilian law enforcement, the National Guard in state status, under command and control of the Governor -- not under command and control of the Secretary of Defense -- can work side by side, lawfully, with civilian law enforcement agencies, police officers, to maintain public order.

We anticipate at this point that the nature of the criminal activity is such that civilian law enforcement and National Guard in state status will be able to establish and preserve civil order. In an extraordinary circumstance that we do not at the present time anticipate, if the capabilities of law enforcement and the Guard were to be exceeded, the President does have certain statutory authority to make certain declarations and then to use the active duty military in order to restore civil order. And although we don't expect that to happen in this case, we do have units that are on alert, as we always have such units on alert, prepared to deploy in order to use active duty military forces for the lawful restoration of civil order.

But those are the three tiers -- civilian law enforcement, the National Guard in state status, and then ultimately, under extraordinary circumstances, active duty military forces, as we have used those military forces -- rarely -- but have used them in the past.

Question: What's your assessment of the status of the National Guard in that region, though? We've been hearing so much about the deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan -- do you have a deep enough bench to also do this domestic function?

Assistant Secretary McHale: The simple answer to that question is, yes, we do have a deep enough bench. I looked at the figures this morning -- I'll invite General Scherling, who is a member of the Air Guard herself, and who is currently on duty with the J-3 of the Joint Staff, to address the same issue. But I looked at the figures this morning and as of late this morning, 60 percent of the Louisiana and Mississippi members of the Guard, between 60 and 65 percent, would be available for state active duty under command and control of the Governor.

So despite the fact that significant portions of these Guard units are currently deployed overseas, a very robust capability remains within the affected states, and in fact, as I said, we're now using more than 11,000 of those forces for missions to include security and law enforcement in those areas. But again, I emphasize, that's under command and control of the Governor, not the Secretary of Defense.

Let me invite General Scherling up here, who can comment upon the availability, the training and the authorities of the National Guard in these areas.

General Scherling: Yes, the National Guard would be able to assist the states at the Governor's request. I would also add that the active duty military and the National Guard provide a deep bench for any of the missions that are requested by FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security. And so we are prepared to anticipate those requests."


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Please note: "we're now using more than 11,000 of those forces for missions to include security and law enforcement in those areas. But again, I emphasize, that's under command and control of the Governor, not the Secretary of Defense".
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


I thought it may interest some that the federal response was not a complete disaster as some may be portraying.

As of 11:00 Am Aug 31



" FEMA FEMA deployed 39 Disaster Medical Assistance Teams from all across the U.S. to staging areas in Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, and Louisiana and is now moving them into impacted areas.

Eighteen Urban Search and Rescue task forces and two Incident Support Teams have been deployed and prepositioned in Shreveport, La., and Jackson, Miss., including teams from Florida, Indiana, Maryland, Missouri, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. An additional eight swift water rescue teams have been deployed.

FEMA is moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit areas as quickly as possible, especially water, ice, meals, medical supplies, generators, tents, and tarps. There are currently over 1,700 trucks which have been mobilized to move these supplies into position.

Coast Guard The U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) worked through the night and has rescued or assisted more than 1,250 people.

Secretary Chertoff has authorized the recall to active duty of 550 Coast Guard Reservists to support response and recovery activities.

USCG ships, boats, and aircraft continue to support FEMA and state and local authorities with rescue and recovery efforts. USCG has also activated three national strike teams to help in removal of hazardous materials; ships and boats continue to support the national relief efforts.

National Guard The National Guard of the four most heavily impacted states are providing support to civil authorities. Guard units are also providing generators, medical assistance and shelters. Currently, more than 31,500 members from Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida are engaged and providing assistance.

The National Guard is augmenting civilian law enforcement capacity, not acting in lieu of it.

Department of Defense As directed by the Secretary of Defense and in accordance with the National Response Plan, U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM) is supporting the FEMA disaster relief efforts. NORTHCOM, the lead Department of Defense (DOD) organization for Hurricane Katrina response, is moving and/or mobilizing the following resources to support FEMA's response and recovery efforts:

NORTHCOM established Joint Task Force (JTF) Katrina to act as the military's on-scene command in support of FEMA. Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, commander of the First Army in Fort Gillem, Ga., is the JTF-Commander. JTF Katrina will be based out of Camp Shelby, Miss.

U.S. Transportation Command is flying eight swift water rescue teams from California to Lafayette, La. These teams will provide approximately 14 highly trained personnel with vehicles and small rigid-hulled boats capable of rescuing stranded citizens from flooded areas.

USS Bataan sailed to the waters off Louisiana to provide support. Currently, four helicopters from the Bataan are flying medical evacuation and search and rescue missions in Louisiana. Bataan's hospital may also be used for medical support.

The Iwo Jima Amphibious Readiness Group (ARG) is preparing to sail from Norfolk, VA loaded with disaster response equipment. The ARG consists of four amphibious ships, and will be off the coast of Louisiana in the next five days.

The hospital ship USNS Comfort is departing Baltimore to bring medical assistance capabilities to the Gulf region, and should arrive in seven days.

Department of Health and Human Services The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is making available all of their capabilities to help state and local officials provide care and assistance to the victims of this storm. HHS efforts include:

The first 250 mobile hospital beds and associated equipment have arrived at the Louisiana State University (LSU) facility in Baton Rouge. Thirty eight public health service officers are at the facility and along with disaster medical assistance teams and State health care professionals. As of this morning, 50 of the beds are operational.

HHS has placed 415 Public Health Service officers on stand-by for deployment to support medical response in the affected states.

The HHS Secretary's Operations Center mobile command post is en route to Baton Rouge and should arrive today. This bus provides office space along with computer and communications support for the HHS Secretary's Emergency Response Team (SERT).

HHS is using the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS) to identify available hospital beds, and working with DOD, Veteran's Administration, and others to move patients to these facilities. At last count, there were 2,600 beds available in a 12 state area around the affected area. Nationwide, the NDMS has identified 40,000 available beds in participating hospitals.

Louisiana state officials have received 27 pallets of requested medical supplies from the Strategic National Stockpile. These pallets include basic first aid material (such as bandages, pads, ice packs, etc), blankets and patient clothing, suture kits, sterile gloves, stethoscopes, blood pressure measuring kits, and portable oxygen tanks. This equipment is being used to set up the mobile hospital at LSU in Baton Rouge.

Centers for Disease Control experts are now working with Louisiana state officials to implement a mosquito abatement program.

Department of Transportation The Department of Transportation (DOT) dispatched a team of 66 transportation experts to support state and local officials in the damage assessment of highways, railroads, airports, transit systems, ports, and pipelines. DOT is also supporting detour planning and critical transportation system repairs.

There are a number of key highways and important road bridges that have sustained significant damage, including the I-10 bridges between New Orleans and Slidell, La. I-10 is closed throughout much of Louisiana and all of Mississippi, while it is limited to one lane in each direction and around Mobile due to pump failure in one of the tunnels in Mobile. Other major highways, such as US 90, 98, and 49 in the affected areas are closed. I-59 is closed starting 20 miles south of Meridian to points further south.

Department of Agriculture The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is sending experienced emergency response personnel. To date, the Forest Service has assigned 10 management and logistical teams and seven crews of 20 people each to the affected areas and host communities. These resources are intended to assist in setting up logistics staging areas, the distribution of food products, and debris removal.

USDA's Food and Nutrition Service (FNS) is providing food at shelters and mass feeding sites, issuing emergency food stamps, infant formula, and food packages to households in need.

USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service is providing information pertaining to keeping food safe. Consumers can call the toll-free USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline 24 hours a day at 1-888-MPHotline (1-888-674-6854); for the hearing-impaired TTY 1-800-256-7072.

Department of Labor The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) continues to coordinate with the interagency community in providing support as outlined in the National Response Plan.

Region VI has deployed its eight members Emergency Response Team to Baton Rouge to assess the situation and begin to provide technical assistance to recovery workers and utility employers engaged in power restoration. In addition, OSHA is contacting major power companies to the areas affected to provide safety briefings to employees at power restoration staging areas in affected communities.

OSHA is releasing public service announcements to inform workers about hazards related to restoration and cleanup.

Department of Treasury The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) announced special relief for taxpayers in the Presidential Disaster Areas struck by the hurricane. These taxpayers generally will have until October 31 to file tax returns and submit tax payments. The IRS will stop interest and any late filing or late payment penalties that would otherwise apply. This relief includes the September 15 due date for estimated taxes and for calendar-year corporate returns with automatic extensions.

Small Business Administration The Small Business Administration (SBA) will position loan officers in federal and state disaster recovery centers. SBA is also prepared to provide help in other states in the eastern half of the country where the storm may also lead to disaster area declarations.

American Red Cross The American Red Cross is providing a safe haven for nearly 46,000 evacuees in more than 230 Red Cross shelters, from the panhandle of Florida, across Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, and Texas. The Red Cross is launching the largest mobilization of resources for a single natural disaster involving thousands of trained disaster relief workers, tons of supplies, and support. The American Red Cross is asking everyone in affected areas to remain safely in shelters until local officials have deemed it safe to leave.

The Red Cross relies on donations of the American people to do its work. Citizens can help by calling 1-800-HELP-NOW (1-800-435-7669) or by making an online contribution to the Disaster Relief Fund at www.redcross.org. Because of logistical issues, the Red Cross cannot accept donations of food or clothing. "




Also, this was not included in the post with the quotes from DHS:

" Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures."

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 09:48 AM

The notion that Fema only helps when it's a election year or when the brother is the governor is wishful thinking on the part of the left. It's a straw man put up to deflect the failures of their arguements against Bush.

If hiring a political consultant is bad then you have cast a wide net indeed. Every department does it.

On the side though, you are completely correct that government is inherently political and leads to huge inefficiencies. Why would anyone want to tax more and give them more power? Hmmmm.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 10:50 AM

We can all put Bush outrage to rest now.

He said he now takes respondsibility for the storm response.

He said that racism and poverty are linked.

He promised another $200 billion for rebuilding. (about 1/2 of Iraq/terrorist war costs)

He also promised to make tax cuts for the rich permanent.

.....................................................


Will China buy the US bonds to float this loan, now that the US deficit is already double all historic deficits???



Either way China is facing a win win situation.








+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some outrage from Southern govenors...

Too bad no Southern businesses were chosen for rebuiding efforts.
The unbid contracts went to firms like Halliburton.
Lets not forget that Halliburton is not even a US corporation but rather an offshore tax free International corp.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 12:33 PM

Even if they declared this disaster a 'Incident of National Significance' on the 27th, the Federal Government could not send in Federal Troops for law enforcement.

This is a straw man. They didn't need to send in federal troops for law enforcement. They should have sent them in for all other kinds of support, leaving the local police and the National Guard for law enforcement. Had they done that, things wouldn't have descended into the state of total chaos that we saw, and the amount of policing needed would have been far less.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 03:51 PM

Here's more on the subject of the busses (or lack of them, as the case may be)...

__________________________


ABC's Stephanopoulos repeated school bus falsehood spread by Pruden, Hannity, and Gingrich


On September 11, ABC host George Stephanopoulos repeated a falsehood that had reverberated through the right-wing media the preceding week -- that "there were 2,000 buses under water" that New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin could have used to evacuate his city before Hurricane Katrina's arrival. The claim appears to have originated in a September 6 column by Washington Times editor-in-chief Wesley Pruden, who inaccurately charged that, although Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation before the hurricane's arrival, he "kept the city's 2,000 school buses parked and locked in neat rows when there was still time to take the refugees to higher ground." Conservative websites, including the Power Line and Little Green Footballs weblogs, quickly linked to Pruden's column.

But Pruden dramatically overstated the number of New Orleans school buses. As of 2003, the most recent year for which data appears to be available, the Orleans Parish school district, which operates New Orleans' public schools, owned only 324 school buses. In addition, a Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development profile of the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority (RTA), last updated May 5, notes that RTA owned 364 public buses, bringing the total of the city's public transit and school buses to fewer than 700 (assuming the fleet of school buses has not been dramatically increased since 2003), far fewer than the 2,000 Pruden claimed. Even so, Pruden's claim was repeated that evening on Fox News' Hannity & Colmes by co-host Sean Hannity, who insisted, "Two thousand buses sat; 2,000 school buses." The falsehood was echoed the next day by Fox news political analyst and former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-GA), who baselessly suggested that the city owned more than enough buses to help every poor person leave the city. And In a September 11 Pittsburgh Post-Gazette column, national security writer Jack Kelly asked, "[W]hy weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?"

During a roundtable discussion on the September 11 broadcast of ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos, which included Gingrich, Stephanopoulos repeated Pruden's faulty figure. After Gingrich asserted that "it's the mayor who fails to use the city buses to move the poor out of New Orleans," Stephanopoulos responded, "He says that was never part of the plan, but you're right, there were 2,000 buses under water." Gingrich replied, "That's right."

In fact, The New York Times reported on September 4 that Louisiana emergency planners believed it would take as many as 2,000 buses "to evacuate an estimated 100,000 elderly and disabled people" in the event of a catastrophic hurricane like Katrina. But, The New York Times wrote, this was "far more than New Orleans possessed."

Pruden's claim that the city possessed 2,000 school buses that could have been used for a pre-storm evacuation appears to be an exaggeration of a September 1 Associated Press photograph of school buses parked in a flooded lot in New Orleans. The photograph was widely reported on conservative websites, including the Media Research Center's NewsBusters weblog, the Instapundit weblog, and Michelle Malkin's weblog. A September 6 MSNBC.com article that described the scene in the AP photograph noted, "Some 200 New Orleans school buses sit underwater in a parking lot, unused. That's enough to have evacuated at least 13,000 people."

Apparently, those school buses constituted the majority of New Orleans' school bus fleet. According to a September 5, 2003, article in the New Orleans Times-Picayune, "The [Orleans Parish school] district owns 324 buses but 70 are broken down." A 2003 document posted on the Louisiana Department of Education's website confirms that Orleans Parish used 324 "board owned" school buses and no "contractor owned" school buses.

On the September 7 edition of Hannity & Colmes, Gingrich echoed Pruden's inaccurate claim, falsely asserting that the city possessed "more than enough buses to, in a methodical, orderly way, help every poor person leave the city."

But Gingrich's claim has no basis in fact. While estimates of the number of residents stranded in New Orleans following the storm vary, New Orleans officials have suggested that 80 percent of the city's residents evacuated before the hurricane hit. That leaves roughly 97,000 residents who remained in New Orleans.

New Orleans' combined fleet of public transit and school buses would not have had nearly enough capacity to evacuate all of those who remained in the city. A July 8 Times-Picayune article, titled "RTA buses would be used for evacuation; But plan still falls far short of needs," pointed out that the RTA owned 364 public buses. "Even if the entire fleet was used," the Times-Picayune noted, "the buses would carry only about 22,000 people out of the city -- far short of the 134,000 people estimated to be without cars in a recent University of New Orleans study." Even the addition of the full school bus fleet would have been far from sufficient to transport the remaining residents.

Moreover, The New York Times noted that a number of New Orleans buses were in use as the hurricane approached: "But Chester Wilmot, an L.S.U. [Louisiana State University] civil engineering professor who studies evacuation plans, said the city successfully improvised. He said witnesses described seeing city buses shuttle residents to the Superdome before Hurricane Katrina struck."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120005

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 07:15 PM

Read FEMA Official Discusses Failure to Respond, on NPR

a dailykos diary by Paul in Berkeley [Fri Sep 16th, 2005]

Here's an excerpt:

"As early as Friday, Aug. 26, Bosner knew that Katrina could turn into a major emergency.
In daily e-mails -- known as National Situation Updates -- sent to Chertoff, Brown and others in the days before Katrina made landfall in the Gulf Coast, Bosner warned of its growing strength -- and of the particular danger the hurricane posed to New Orleans, much of which lies below sea level.

But Bosner says FEMA failed to organize the massive mobilization of National Guard troops and evacuation buses needed for a quick and effective relief response when Katrina struck. He says he and his colleagues at FEMA's D.C. headquarters were shocked by the lack of response.
"We could see all this going downhill," Bosner said, "but there was nothing we could do."...


"I've been with FEMA since the agency was started in 1979, so that's 26 years...."

[Regarding the response to the Saturday, August 27 alert]: "There were some resources being mobilized, but really not quite enough for that kind of a scale...They get these things [the updates] in person, they go through their office computer and their Blackberry...."

"We sent the information up...we're the staff, we're not the President or the Director of FEMA or something...we sent the information up and we expected that by the time we came in everything would be swinging into action, and we got there and it was the sounds of silence [Bosner quietly chuckles in disbelief, according to the diarist's ears]...."

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 05 - 11:58 PM

Rare Lamb--

1) Source, please, of your laundry list of all the federal government was doing, starting with "FEMA deployed 39..."

2) Do you dispute that the federal response to the Florida hurricanes in 2004 was both more immediate and more massive?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: mg
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 01:06 AM

why didn't the collective bunch of idiots get some boats there? Rowboats, kayaks? Rubber rafts. They could have dropped by helicopter tied to other boats and released...thousands of people could have been saved much earlier...it didn't require helicopters and you shouldn't depend on or expect helicopters...too few, too hard to land in certain areas like on water...duh..there was water there..they needed boats and right away.   They had some swift boats coming from somewhere but I don't know if they were military. Yes, they did need the military sharpshooter types to immediately kill the armed thugs and bring some order out of the chaos and allow the rescues to continue and food to be brought in etc. Then the NG and local police etc. could have handled the general run of the mill looting etc (by which I mean DVRs and not food and water). The failure to control the rapists and murderers and terrorists is what will live in infamy. The gang rapers of 7 year old girls. The worm is fixing to turn as they say down there and people are going to confront this on many different levels but in the long run I think things might be better and safer for the law-abiding residents.

People have said the most idiotic things..like who could have imagined something this bad...well, me, if no one else. I can imagine things way worse but I generally don't tell people. But these were healthy people who could walk out or row out on their own steam given the slightest resources of food, water, rest, police protection. Any of us should be prepared psychologically to live in shelters or reduced circumstances should we have to. But think for a minute if this had been a terrorist attack..they had exploded the chemicaltanks and set off nuclear bombs. People would have been burned. Think what that would have been like? It could and very likely lmight happen.

One thing the president should do is say if something disastrous happens again, here is what we will do. We will see how the locals and states are doing, but we will not hesitate to come in with guns a blazing to protect life and limb. Do not wait until you hear martial law has been declared. Presume that it has. You will be shot on sight if you are caught preying on anyone..again I am not talking about stealing the DVRs so don't go boss hogging me...that I repeat i would handle with community service, civics classes etc/. If you are a prisoner convicted of heinious crimes and were especially violent you will not be released. You will not be turned loose on the innocent public. IF you are a prisoner who will be released to save your life you will wear your prison clothes. You will not go near anyoen else except to rescue them. We do have all sorts of arial surveillance so either lie low or behavi
e yourselves and participate in the rescue efforts. You will get massive time off for good behavior.

The elderly and children and handicapped among you are victims of this catastrophe. The rest of you are rescuers, cooks, nurses, drivers, registrars, child care workers. Organize yourselves and identify your skills right away. You will not be prosecuted for taking the necessities of life if they are not forthcoming, but do not take one thing that you do not need for survival and basic comfro

rt. Take care of sanitation. Dig latrines immediately if you ahve dry ground. Bury whatever waste you can or take whatever containers you can find and use it for waste. Use heavy garbage bags. Liberate more heavy duty bags for body bags.














e

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 08:51 AM

Check out this statement by Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), quoted in this dailykos comment [http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/16/215724/331 {Sally in SF}]:

"My favorite line today...

From the Washington Post

White House aides confirmed that Rove, in his capacity as deputy chief of staff, is helping to lead the Katrina recovery effort. With Rove's name a rallying point for Bush foes, especially after revelations of his role in the unmasking of a CIA operative, Democrats sought to denigrate his involvement.

"Mr. Rove may be an expert on leaks, but that doesn't qualify him to oversee flood relief," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee."


As MasterCard would say, "Priceless"

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 09:13 AM

azizi, is that really true and, if it is, how do you know it to be?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 09:36 AM

Carol C. I listened to that expose as well.


I will make an editorial cartoon to educate people about the buses. But it would be a waste of valuable time if it is not spread throughout the world wide web by people like yourself.

Perhaps you don't realize that I now post my "cartoons" only on mudcat. I had many appear on Rense.com, FARK amd Slate.com but it took too much time. If there is a way to spread some good ones by email I encourage those who think it might do some good to cast them worldwide.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 10:44 AM

mg, had things been done properly, the situation wouldn't have gotten so out of hand that they would need sharpshooters in the first place. Had the military been there assisting in a support role right from the beginning, the situation wouldn't have descended into the level of chaos that would require sharpshooters in order to restore order.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 11:00 AM

No longer on speaking terms

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushques.jpg

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 11:40 AM

I'm glad you post your stuff here in the Mudcat, Donuel.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 20 Sep 05 - 11:53 PM

This must be the Leftist Liberal Socialist web site. Hail Bush!

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:29 AM

I think the idea that Bush is talking to God is actually higher. If you consider the way God treats his 'chosen' people in the Old Testament, you may think that Bush is a freakin saint! :)


I got the FEMA response from http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home8.jsp


Here is an update.

What Government is Doing (as of September 19, 2005)

    * Federal disaster declarations are covering 90,000 square miles of affected areas.
    * National Response Plan mobilizes resources of the entire federal government to support response and recovery.
    * More than 72,000 unified federal personnel have been deployed
    * More than 49,800 lives have been saved and rescued
    * 89,400 people are currently housed in shelters nationwide.
    * 593,000 households have received $1.4 billion in disaster assistance.
    * Approximately 54,800 housing damage inspections have been completed.
    * Commodities delivered to date include:
          o 26.8 million MREs
          o 63.1 million liters of water
          o 180 million pounds of ice
    * The United States Coast Guard rescued more than 33,000 lives in the wake of Katrina.
    * More than 73% of affected drinking water systems in Louisiana have been restored and 78% are restored in Mississippi.
    * The American Red Cross, in coordination with the Southern Baptist Convention, has served more than 12 million hot meals and more than 8.2 million snacks to survivors of Hurricane Katrina.
    * 50,000 National Guard personnel responded to the relief effort.
    * 44 Disaster Recovery Centers are open in Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas to gain assistance from recovery specialists of local, state, federal and volunteer agencies.
    * List of Government Waivers and Dispensations Authorized for Hurricane Katrina Response

FEMA - FEMA has distributed over $1.4 billion in federal aid to more than 593,000 households. Families temporarily residing in all 50 states and the District of Columbia are receiving assistance in a streamlined process to urgently expedite these payments of $2,000 per household to help pay for the emergency needs of food, shelter, clothing, personal necessities and medical needs.

FEMA has thousands of phone operators taking registrations on its 24-hour phone bank. Callers may register faster by calling during the off hours of 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. Those registering should be ready, if able, to provide their Social Security number, insurance information, financial information, contact information and their direct deposit information. Registration will remain open for many months to ensure that all citizens eligible for assistance have had the opportunity to apply.

FEMA has deployed more than 87 National Disaster Medical System Teams and 28 urban search and rescue teams with nearly 7,000 personnel to save lives and render medical assistance. Teams have rescued more than 350 hurricane victims.

FEMA has moved millions of commodities of water, ice, and meals ready to eat (MRE). FEMA also supplied generators and thousands of cots and blankets.

FEMA established a Housing Area Command to oversee all temporary housing operations across the Hurricane Katrina impacted areas of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama. Housing Strike Teams are being readied for deployment into each state to begin the process of quantifying temporary housing needs.

Individuals in declared counties can register online for disaster assistance at www.fema.gov or call FEMA's toll free registration line at 1-800-621-FEMA (3362).

Coast Guard - Thousands of Coast Guard men and women from around the nation continue conducting search, rescue, response, waterway reconstitution and environmental impact assessment operations from Florida to Louisiana with other federal, state and local agencies.

A multi-agency task force of environmental response experts continue to remedy as many as 575 cases of hazardous materials and oil pollution in Florida, Alabama and Mississippi. This federal, state and local task force is comprised of 10 agencies representing the U.S. Coast Guard, Environmental Protection Agency, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, as well as Florida, Alabama and Mississippi state environmental conservation and protection departments. Various commercial and private contractors have been enlisted as well.

The number of people rescued to date is more than 33,000 people. People who are still in need of rescue or know of someone in need, can submit information at http://homeport.uscg.mil. People should also contact their state emergency operation centers are [phone] or 7709 or 3511 or 7412.

The Coast Guard is conducting port surveys and moving assets into these ports to restore buoys, lights, and aids-to-navigation, thus allowing maritime traffic to safely navigate.

Customs and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement - U.S. Customs and Border Protection(CBP) and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) trucks delivered several thousand items of clothing to Hurricane Katrina evacuees in Jackson, Miss., Houston and San Antonio, Texas. The clothing, seized in violations of U.S. trademark laws is worth estimated at over $17 million.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement's - Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVIS) has received numerous questions regarding international students who have been impacted by Hurricane Katrina. ICE has established a toll free number (800-961-5294) for students who are attending a school that is affected by Hurricane Katrina and are unable to contact their Designated School official. Students can also email SEVIS at [e-mail].

National Guard - More than 50,000 National Guard members responded to state active duty in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida. Guardsmen are trained professionals and bring great expertise and sensitivity to their mission in support of local law enforcement.

National Guard soldiers flying helicopters from dawn to dusk are providing a critical air bridge to communities throughout the Mississippi Gulf Coast with much needed supplies of military rations, water and ice. Aircrews are flying four to 15 missions per day, depending on the distance of their drops from the busy Air National Guard Combat Readiness Training Center airfield.

The Mississippi Air National Guard has erected a transportable medical center on the grounds of the Hancock County Hospital - a stopgap until county medical organizations can operate again.

National Guard helicopters evacuated hundreds of sick and injured persons out of the devastated greater New Orleans area.

Department of Defense - The Defense Department continues to tailor its forces supporting hurricane relief operations as needed to provide the critical capabilities required by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and other federal agencies. Over 72,000 military personnel (22,000 active-duty troops and more than 50,000 National Guardsmen) - have provided critical security, logistical and other support.

Joint Task Force (JTF) Katrina, the military's on-scene command in support of FEMA, has shifted to the USS Iwo Jima, docked in New Orleans. The Navy amphibious assault ship allows commanders and their civilian counterparts to communicate with rescuers and assistance personnel across the region. Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, commander of the First Army in Fort Gillem, Ga., is the JTF-Commander.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is performing a detailed assessment of about 350 miles of hurricane levee and developing a comprehensive, prioritized plan to repair it and the pumping stations that support New Orleans and surrounding areas. State and local leaders are being informed as assessments are being completed and repairs are made. The Corps continues to work with state and local leaders to make assessments and repairs of the system.

The Department of Defense made available a fleet of approximately 50 helicopters to support FEMA's operations. Eight civilian swift water rescue teams were transferred from California to assist with recovery operations.

DOD has delivered more than 24.2 million liters of water, 67 million pounds of ice, and 13.6 million individually packaged military rations to areas in Mississippi and Louisiana.

Department of Agriculture - The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has deployed 2,760 Forest Service employees who are trained in rescue and response to large-scale incidents to assist the Federal Emergency Management Agency. These teams have expertise in setting up logistics staging areas, distribution of food products and debris removal.

USDA is making more than $170 million in emergency assistance available to agricultural producers suffering from Hurricane Katrina. In addition, USDA's Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC) is implementing immediate changes to its Marketing Assistance Loan Program due to the hurricane. These changes will allow producers to obtain loans for "on-farm" grain storage on the ground in addition to grain bins and other normally approved structures.

USDA has delivered or has on the way more than 300 trucks containing over 12 million pounds of food (canned vegetables, fruits, cheese and meats) and baby food and formula products, with truckloads of additional supplies being prepared for delivery to affected communities.

USDA has also authorized states to pre-load electronic food benefit cards with $50 to immediately purchase food even before application s have been processed to receive complete benefits. These cards can be used by displaced residents as they move from shelters to temporary housing.

USDA Rural Development will provide a six-month moratorium on payments for approximately 50,000 low-income residents who have Rural Development Single Family Housing Loans in the affected areas. USDA will also be taking an inventory of vacant USDA housing to help accommodate displaced residents."

Department of Commerce - The Department of Commerce has established a toll-free number (1-888-4USADOC or 1-888-487-2362) to help private sector contributions reach those who are in need following Hurricane Katrina. Phone lines will be staffed by caseworkers from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. seven days a week. The caseworkers will help steer each contribution made by the businesses community through the federal government until it successfully reaches its destination.

Commerce has deployed three National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) response teams to survey priority channel and port locations. The survey products produced by these teams will help determine when ports can be reopened. NOAA will also be working to determine the impacts of the storm on living marine resources, including commercial and recreational fisheries that are economically important to the region.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), is working with FEMA to lend its technical expertise from the Building and Fire Research Laboratory to asses structural damage and provide assistance. NIST's Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) will review the impact of the hurricane on small manufacturers in those areas of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama affected by the storm.

The Economic Development Administration (EDA), is coordinating with FEMA and identifying resources to deploy. Up to $7 million in FY 2005 funds could be deployed to build new/improved infrastructure to aid in economic recovery.

The Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS), will utilize the Defence Priorities and Allocations System (DPAS), as needed, to prioritize procurement of goods and services for the restoration effort -- temporary housing and plastic sheeting are likely major requirements.

Department of Education - has launched Hurricane Help for Schools, to help match schools with displaced students in need with companies, organizations, other schools and individuals willing to donate. In less than a week, more than 45 matches have already occurred between schools and organizations across the U.S.

The Department of Education has modified rules for providing Federal student aid to transfer students who transfer from a postsecondary educational institution that is not operating due to the hurricane to another institution.

The Department of Education has extended application filing dates for Federal student aid for students impacted by the hurricane and extended various reporting dates required of postsecondary educational institutions.

The Department of Education has also directed student loan holders to grant an automatic three-month forbearance to any borrower whose address is in a FEMA declared disaster county.

Department of Energy - Department of Energy (DOE)Secretary Samuel Bodman has authorized the release of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. DOE has also expanded their gas gouging reporting system to include a 1-800 telephone number of 1-800-244-3301or online at http://gaswatch.energy.gov/.

DOE's Office of Science has established a temporary program to match interested displaced students and faculty researchers -- who may be eligible regardless of current DOE funding status -- with research programs that currently receive grants from the Office of Science. The clearinghouse for the activity is the DOE Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education, which will match hosts with those desiring to participate and will consider on a case basis modest supplemental funding to existing programs to facilitate this process. For further information, those interested may contact [e-mail] or call [phone]. They may also gain additional information at the Oak Ridge web site at www.orau.gov/doeedrelief/.

Department of Health and Human Services - is offering streamlined access to benefits for Hurricane Katrina victims. As part of this streamlining process, states will be given the flexibility to enroll evacuees without requiring documents such as tax returns or proof of residency. Evacuees who have lost all identification and records should be able to give their address or other simple form of attestation to be eligible. The special evacuee status will apply to the full range of federal benefits administered by the states, including HHS programs that provide services through Medicaid, family assistance through Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), child care support, foster care assistance, mental health services and substance abuse treatment services.

HHS has announced all children from birth to 18 years old displaced by Hurricane Katrina are eligible to receive free vaccines through the federally-run Vaccines for Children program (VFC), regardless of whether they are staying at shelters, hotels, or with family and friends and regardless of previous health insurance coverage status. Managed by HHS' Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the VFC helps families of children who may not otherwise have access to vaccines by providing free vaccines to doctors who serve them.

HHS has declared a public health emergency for Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas . This action allows the Department to waive certain Medicare, Medicaid, State Child Health Insurance Program, and HIPAA requirements as well as make grants and enter into contracts more expeditiously during this emergency.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services has adopted a series of emergency policy changes to accommodate the needs of thousands of displaced Medicaid and State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) beneficiaries who have fled Hurricane Katrina and need urgent medical attention in their new host states.

HHS is providing $15 million in emergency funding to assist Head Start and Early Head Start grantees in providing services to children and families displaced by Hurricane Katrina. These funds will enable Head Start and Early Head Start grantees to provide services to evacuee children and families until October 11, 2005. To receive services, a family must have been forced to leave their home because of Hurricane Katrina.

HHS announced the availability of a toll-free hotline for people in crisis in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. By dialing 1-800-273-TALK (1-800-273-8255), callers will be connected to a network of local crisis centers across the country that are committed to crisis counseling. Callers to the hotline will receive counseling from trained staff at the closest certified crisis center in the network. HHS also is providing $600,000 in emergency grants to Louisiana, Alabama, Texas and Mississippi to ensure that mental health assessment and crisis counseling are available in areas impacted by Hurricane Katrina.

The federal government will speed up the award of grants to establish 26 new health center sites in areas impacted by Hurricane Katrina. Approximately $2.3 million in fiscal year 2005 funds to these sites will get health care resources up and running quickly in disaster areas and neighboring states treating evacuees from the storm-ravaged Gulf Coast.

The Office of The Surgeon General and the Office of Public Health Emergency Preparedness to mobilize and identify healthcare professionals and relief personnel to assist in Hurricane Katrina relief efforts. They have registered over 30,000 medical volunteers to assist in recovery measures.

HHS continues to ship pallets of basic first aid materials and supplies to the area, and the Centers for Disease Control and Food and Drug Administration are augmenting state and local public health resources – including chemical and toxicology teams, sanitation and public health teams, epidemiology teams and food safety teams.

Department of Housing and Urban Development - has established a single toll-free housing hotline, 1-888-297-8685, to assist the victims of Hurricane Katrina with all housing concerns. This number operates from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. CDT, seven days a week.

HUD has partnered with the U.S. Conference of Mayors (USCM) and the National Association of Counties (NACo) to identify thousands of available homes to temporarily house displaced families in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Initially, the Department identified nearly 5,000 vacant single-family HUD-owned properties in 11 states near the affected areas.

Department of the Interior - The Department of the Interior has deployed 1,489 personnel in response to Hurricane Katrina. Emergency response activities include interagency assistance under the National Response Plan; assuring public safety on Departmental lands and providing mutual aid to surrounding communities; and restoring capability of offices in the disaster areas to execute essential functions.

United States Geological Survey employees are repairing and replacing damaged stream gauges throughout the region to restore flood warning capacity; coordinating with other federal agencies to provide geospatial information, maps, satellite images and scientific assessments to help response and recovery operations; and sampling and testing water pumped out of New Orleans and into Lake Pontchartrain.

Department of Justice - has established the Hurricane Katrina Fraud Task Force, designed to deter, investigate and prosecute disaster-related federal crimes such as charity fraud and insurance fraud. Justice has also set up a page on how to protect against fraud.

The U.S. Department of Justice is working with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) to set up a national hotline to locate missing hurricane victims at 1-888-544-5475.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has obtained the authority to provide states access to the FBI's criminal history database for the purpose of conducting background checks on any volunteer, relief worker, or evacuee associated with Hurricane Katrina, who would have access to children. The FBI is waiving its $24.00 fee that is normally charged for fingerprint-based checks relating to employment, licensing, and suitability. This limited authority expires on November 7, 2005 and requires a state or federal statute authorizing a fingerprint-based criminal history background check for individuals with access to cildren.

Department of Labor - has three programs to offer immediate income assistance to workers displaced by Hurricane Katrina 1) Unemployment Insurance for workers who lost their jobs because of Hurricane Katrina; 2) Disaster Unemployment Insurance for the newly employed and self-employed not normally eligible for unemployment insurance and, 3) Temporary jobs funded through National Emergency Grants.

For information on how to access these benefits, individuals can call DOL's national toll free number: 1-866-4-USA-DOL (1-866-487-2365). For those able to access the internet, information can also be found on DOL's website (www.dol.gov). DOL has also dispatched teams to all evacuee sites, and has staff canvassing neighborhoods, churches, parishes and hospitals to advertise these benefits. Mobile "One-Stop" vans have been deployed to FEMA sites, including one in the parking lot of the Houston Astrodome.

DOL has created the Katrina Recovery Job Connection, a new resource focused on supporting the transition back into employment for individuals impacted by Hurricane Katrina. The site's purpose is to connect job seekers with employers interested in hiring them for either new permanent employment or for jobs related to the cleanup, recovery and rebuilding process in hurricane-impacted areas. While the site is intended to complement the efforts at the state and local level to connect workers and jobs in the impacted areas, it is also intended to make individuals evacuated to other states aware of opportunities in their home state. Both employers and job seekers are encouraged to visit the site to post and view listings of available jobs.

DOL's Employee Benefits Security Administration (EBSA), in conjunction with the Internal Revenue Service, has announced an extension of a number of deadlines related to health plan coverage, giving workers and employers affected by Hurricane Katrina additional time to make critical decisions regarding health coverage.

Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has deployed safety and health professionals to Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama to provide technical assistance to recovery workers in their ongoing cleanup efforts along the Gulf Coast of the United States.

OSHA has been contacting major power companies in the affected areas to provide safety briefings to employees at power restoration staging areas.

OSHA has released public service announcements to inform workers about hazards related to restoration and cleanup.

OSHA has identified home supply and construction stores in the affected areas in order to distribute safety and health fact sheets and materials to these locations.

Department of State - The Department of State advises concerned family members of foreign nationals residing or traveling in areas affected by Hurricane Katrina to try to reach their family members by phone, email, or other available means. If family member cannot be reached, the State Department recommends they contact their embassy in Washington, D.C. for assistance.

Reports from the region indicate that some phone lines are working but experiencing heavy call volume, so family members are encouraged to keep trying if lines are busy.

Department of Transportation - The Department of Transportation (DOT) is working closely with state and local authorities, federal partners, and private sector transportation service providers to assess damage to transportation infrastructure and assist in immediate recovery efforts.

The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) will allow transit agencies affected by Hurricane Katrina to make use of federal funds to buy supplies, repair buses or equipment, or begin reconstruction without having to use matching local funds until further notice.

Work on repairing the Twin Spans Bridge that carries traffic on Interstate-10 between New Orleans and Slidell, La., has begun following the September 9th award of a $31 million contract to Boh Brothers Construction of New Orleans. The eastbound span will be repaired first, providing one lane of traffic in each direction.The contract requires work to be completed within 45 days. The second phase of the work will result in repair of the westbound span which, along with the eastbound span, will provide two-lane traffic in each direction within 120 days.

The Department has secured more than 1,639 trucks to support the delivery of more than 3,731 truckloads of goods, including more than 25 million MREs (meals ready to eat), more than 31 million liters of water, 56,400 tarps, more than 19 million pounds of ice and 215,000 blankets.

DOT has also deployed teams from the Federal Highway Administration, Federal Aviation Administration and Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration to help clear roads and inspect bridges, establish communications and increase operations at major airports, and to move generators to pipeline pumping stations to restore the flow of petroleum products to the southeast.

Department of Treasury - The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) announced special relief for taxpayers in the Presidential Disaster Areas struck by the hurricane. These taxpayers generally will have until October 31 to file tax returns and submit tax payments. The IRS will stop interest and any late filing or late payment penalties that would otherwise apply. This relief includes the September 15 due date for estimated taxes and for calendar-year corporate returns with automatic extensions.

Several thousand IRS telphone operators are helping the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) answer telephone calls from Hurricane Katrina victims calling to register for disaster assistance.

The IRS has also established a separate toll-free number for Katrina victims with tax issues. That number is 1-866-562-5227.

Office of The Comptroller of the Currency - The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) is working with federal and state banking agencies and other organizations to support the operations and recovery of national banks in the affected region, to support citizens, and to ensure the safety and soundness of available banking resources. Questions regarding national bank issues can be directed to 1-800-613-6743, or by e-mail at: [e-mail]. Additional information for bankers and bank customers is available at http://www.occ.gov/katrina.htm.

The Office of Thrift Supervision has setup a toll-free hotline for thrift institutions and their customers affected by Hurricane Katrina. Call (1-800-958-0655) between the hours of 8:00am to 5:30pm CST, Monday to Friday. The Office of Thrift Supervision is the primary regulator of all federally chartered and many state-chartered thrift institutions, which includes savings banks and savings and loan associations.

Department of Veterans Affairs - The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has successfully evacuated the most critically ill patients from the VA medical center in New Orleans . V A officials are establishing procedures for family members to locate inpatients evacuated from the affected facilities. Officials are also finalizing procedures for veterans from the hurricane area to receive benefits checks and prescription drugs, and to ensure that VA employees continue to be paid.

Mobile clinics are now open in South Mississippi and Louisiana to provide medical treatment to veterans displaced by Hurricane Katrina. For more information about the mobile clinics, veterans can call 1-800-949-1009 ext. 6004. Veterans currently enrolled in a standing VA clinic that is operational should continue to seek treatment at that clinic.

Environmental Protection Agency - The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) formed a joint task force to advise local and state officials of the potential health and environmental risks associated with returning to the City of New Orleans. The initial Environmental Health Needs and Habitability Assessment issued 9/17 identifies a number of barriers to be overcome and critical decisions to be made prior to reinhabiting New Orleans.

The EPA has temporarily waived standards for gasoline and diesel fuels in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida under the Clean Air Act. Waivers have also been sent to the Governors of the 46 remaining states and territories providing temporary relief from volatility and sulfur standards.

These waivers will ensure that fuel is available throughout the country to address public health issues and emergency vehicle supply needs. They will be effective through September 15 and only apply to volatility standards - the rate at which fuel evaporates - and the amount of sulfur in fuel.

EPA, in coordination with the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality, is posting data from New Orleans flood water samples of chemical and biological analysis which was validated through a quality assurance process to ensure scientific accuracy. The results show the public and emergency responders should avoid contact with the standing water and are publicly available at the EPA website - http://www.epa.gov/katrina/testresults/index.html. Daily sampling is ongoing and EPA, in coordination with federal, state and local agencies, will release data as it becomes available.

EPA continues assessment of damage to local drinking systems and providing technical assistance to help restore service in Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. As of 9/17, EPA has determined that 498 of these facilities are operational, 26 are operating on a boil water notice and 159 are either inoperable or their status is unknown. In the MS affected area, there are a total of 1,368 drinking water facilities that served approximately 3,219,690 people. EPA has determined that 1,139 of these facilities are operational, 181 are operating on a boil water notice and 48 are either inoperable or their status is unknown. In the AL affected area, there are a total of 72 drinking water facilities that served approximately 960,682 people. EPA has determined that all 72 of these facilities are operational. It should be noted that "operational" facilities may still be in need of repair or reconstruction.

EPA emergency and response personnel are helping assess the damage and prepare to support cleanup in Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana. Teams are traveling to affected areas and conducting aerial assessments.

Federal Communications Commission is facilitating continuing service for customers of wireline carriers that are unable to provide service due to Hurricane Katrina. The Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau has adopted an order that temporarily waives certain carrier change requirements. This will allow affected carriers to temporarily transfer customers to those carriers with working facilities while restoration efforts are under way, with minimum inconvenience and burden on customers.

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation - The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) is working cooperatively with all of the state and federal banking agencies and other organizations to determine the status of the financial institutions located in the affected areas and has established a 24-hour consumer hotline and a dedicated web page that includes bank branch information for FDIC-insured institutions in damaged areas. This and other information for consumers and bankers is available on the FDIC Web site (link above) or by calling the FDIC's toll-free Call Center at 1-877-ASK-FDIC (1-877-275-3342).

Federal Energy Regulatory Commission – To aid restoration efforts, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) has relaxed certain requirements for electric transmission providers affected by Hurricane Katrina. FERC's rules allow transmission providers to "take whatever steps are necessary to keep the system(s) in operation," notwithstanding any other requirements. FERC has extended filing deadlines in certain cases pending before it that involve energy companies affected by Hurricane Katrina. It has also waived certain Standards of Conduct record keeping requirements. FERC will also consider requests to extend those deadlines.

General Services Administration - The U.S. General Services Administration (GSA) has updated links to Web sites with useful information for victims of the hurricane and interested citizens on the federal government's official portal, www.FirstGov.gov and its Spanish-language counterpart, FirstGov.gov en Espanol .

GSA has also been providing supplies and services to the U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and the interagency community in support of the relief effort for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

GSA hotlines are available to federal customers 24/7 in the areas hardest hit by Hurricane Katrina allowing them to access information related to buildings, products, services, technology, or other relevant issues. For Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, North Carolina and Kentucky the number is: [phone]; for Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and New Mexico the number is: [phone]. Customers may also send an e-mail to [e-mail].

National Archives and Records Administration - is offering expedited services to provide federal civilian and military personnel affected by Hurricane Katrina with necessary copies of documents.

NARA is also offering document recovery advice to federal agencies and courts in the region devastated by Hurricane Katrina.

Office of Personnel Management - The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) will establish an emergency leave transfer program to assist federal employees affected by Hurricane Katrina. OPM has also implemented expedited procedures for replacing monthly retirement annuity checks not received.

OPM has set up a new toll-free number for current and retired Federal employees and annuitants who have been impacted by Hurricane Katrina to answer questions about health insurance, life insurance, status on paychecks, retiree annuity payments, and disability issues. The toll-free number, 1-800-307-8298, is available between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. Central Time.

Small Business Administration - Homeowners may borrow up to $200,000 to repair or replace the primary residence. Loans of up to $40,000 are available to renters and homeowners to cover losses to personal property like clothing, appliances and furniture. The interest rate is 2.68 percent with 30 year terms and the loans are aimed at covering losses not fully covered by insurance.

Businesses of all sizes may apply for an SBA disaster loan of up to $1.5 million to cover damages to the property, machinery, inventory, etc. Economic injury disaster loans may be used to pay bills or meet operating expenses. The interest rate on both the SBA business disaster loans are 4 percent, with up to 30 year terms.
To qualify for any kind of federal assistance, residents and business owners in the disaster areas must contact FEMA first at 1-800-621-FEMA. For more information on SBA's disaster loan program call 1-800-659-2955 or vist the Web site at www.sba.gov/disaster.

The Social Security Administration has issued 30,000 checks to evacuees who are not able to receive their monthly benefits, whether by mail or direct deposit. Beneficiaries can go to any open Social Security office and receive an immediate payment by check that replaces the full amount of their Social Security or Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payment.

Social Security is providing immediate payments and other vital services to the affected areas and to evacuees in other locations through temporary offices at evacuation centers, and FEMA Family Assistance Centers.

The U.S. Postal Service - Delivery service has been restored to 86% of affected Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana addresses, with full service available at 427 Post Offices and partial service at 53 Offices. More than 100,000 households of affected residents have filed a Change of Address. Also during the last week, the Postal Service has distributed more than 30,000 Social Security checks to residents at mobile locations in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama.

State Governments

The states of Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana have established Hurricane Katrina hotlines to help coordinate public contributions of money, goods and services to assist victims. The following toll-free hotlines have been activated and are now receiving calls from around the nation and the world: Mississippi – 1-866-230-8903; Alabama – 1-877-273-5018 and Louisiana – 1-866-334-8305. These hotlines can coordinate donations of all types. A representative will take your name and contact information, as well as what type of goods and/or services you wish to donate.

The Florida Agency for Health Care Administration is providing health services to Medicaid participants who have evacuated to Florida from Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi. All hurricane evacuees from impacted counties who are eligible for those states' Medicaid programs will be given special evacuee status in Florida's Medicaid program, which will entitle them to services provided to Florida participants. To enroll, evacuees should contact the Florida Department of Children and Families' at 1-866-762-2237 or log on to the Department of Children and Families online enrollment website myflorida.com/accessflorida.

American Red Cross - Since Hurricane Katrina made landfall, the Red Cross has provided more than 2.3 million overnight stays in 902 shelters across 26 states and the District of Columbia. On Sunday night (9/18), the Red Cross housed more than 36,000 Hurricane Katrina survivors in 236 shelters.

The Red Cross, with the worldwide Red Cross Movement, has launched a Web site and hotline to help reunite loved ones. Call toll-free 1-877-LOVED-1S (1-877-568-3317) or online at www.familylinks.icrc.org.

More than 5,640 Red Cross staff and volunteers across the country and from every part of the organization have deployed to the affected area are working around the clock to serve the public need.

More than 12 hot million meals and more than 8.2 million snacks have been served to-date by the Red Cross in coordination with the Southern Baptist Convention, the Adventists and Second Harvest.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 08:59 PM

Makes you wonder if the cavalry (FEMA) was delayed so that George Bush could swoop down and rescue the victims of Katrina by knocking a few heads together.

Pretty good PR if you ask me.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:11 PM

My, you have been busy typing out all that long post, rare lamb.

The imnplication being that this has all been handfled brilliantly, so why are people griping?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:24 PM

Some would complain if you hung them using a new rope.
Did anyone see the ABC 'setup' a few nights ago? ABC had about 10 people watching the speech by GWB and thinking that after the speech was over, these evacuees would lay into him.

Big time backfire - they all praised GWB.

I guess you had to be there to really know what took place, eh?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:29 PM

Another right winged Wra and Peace" length cut and paste... Atleast Teribus uised to throw in a few of his or her own thoughts rather than just be a delivery boy fir Karl Rove...

Bottom line, no matter how long a cut and past you can come up with, rare lamb, there's nuthin' terribly rare about yer cut and paste... Karl Rove is spending yer tax dollars buying the best statisticans and fact twisters that money can buy to try to make it look as if FEMA, or Bush fir that matter, was ready for Katrina...

Both failed miserably... Bush thopught Katrina was like some joke and his staff had to prepare a video and make him watch it so that Bush could have half an idea that this was serious stuff....

The we find out that FEMA was being led by a couple of his drunk frat boy campaign contribut5ors who knew nuthin' about disasters... Hmmmmmm???

Like maybe you'd like to explain that one, rare'ster....

Or not???

Lets face it, a million mile long PR cut and paste ain't gonna cover up the TRUTH: FEMA and the Bush administration, after 9/11, were caught with their pants down...

And worse than that, Bush still doeasn't have a clue... Nor does Karl Rove...

I've said on another thread that while I didn't like Bill Clinton, his response would have been alot more presidential that Bush's... Clinton would have eaten this this think up and by now proposed several ***big*** ideas... Okay, they might habve sucked but he would have been in there pitchin' 'um.... Bush on the other hand is actin' like he did after the tzunami...

"Ahhhhh, Karl, how much this gonna cost us???"

Bobert

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:32 PM

What makes you think that the evacuees were not a part of a GWB set-up? That makes more sense. GWB has far more to gain by a set-up than journalists.

The journalists get their story one way or another.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:43 PM

Comprehension is a difficult word for some here.
Dianavan, the ABC network picked out 10 evacuees to watch the speech and then planned to ask them questions afterwards.
The evacuees had nothing bad to say about GWB, much to the chagrin of the on-camera reporter.

You just don't get it, do you? And I don't mean just this little episode but the whole picture. Don't woryy, you have a lot of company on this board.

Where did I put that Aspirin bottle?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:49 PM

Don't take too many aspirin, Guest G. Somebody has to hold up your side of the debate.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 05 - 09:57 PM

No, GUEST G, it is you that doesn't get it... Maybe we need to sit you down and get you to watch the same video that Bush's staff made him watch so that he's half get it???...

And, BTW, Asprin ain't got no ability to make ya' smarter so whereever you heard that, firget it... Don't work and give you a big tummy ache, to boot...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 09:14 AM

I don't care about any video GWB watched - nor do I know if there was one.
My point was the ABC interview, after his speech, of the 10 handpicked people ABC had outside their shelter. These people had been brought to Houston from the New Orleans Dome. As is always the case here, you people go off on a tangent and won't, or can't, address the topic.

I am sure you would have commented if there had been any negative comments regarding GWB. There were none.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 09:50 AM

What those ten people thought or did not think, in their overstressed state, is not really very germane.

The fact is that from the top down, incompetence and self-centered ineptiotude have been the earmark of the Bush gang. THe man himself is a lout, period.

A

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 10:32 AM

Amos, you need not post a reply to any of mine - I know beforehand what you will say. So, in the interest of board space, don't bother.

Regards,
'G'

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 01:38 PM

Word on the street is that 11 of them 10 supposed random listeners have changed their minds...

Ahhhh, that even incluudes the two who had been previously chozen to be in the audience when BUsh was going 'round trying to sell Americans on his Social Security ideas...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 01:50 PM

Well anyway, it looks like Bush and his people may have learned something from their experiences with the aftermath of Katrina, and are applying it to their approach to preparing for Rita. Let's hope they have, and that we can continue to see improvements in all areas of federal disaster preparedness and response.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 02:09 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 02:21 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050922/pl_nm/rita_bush_dc

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 02:30 PM

You are a hoot. What can I say, he's a politician. I still haven't figured out what visiting LA 5 times has done to help the 'effort'.

Just as I can't figure out what the feds are doing differently this time than last time besides making a bunch of noise. It may be that they have done away with some of the paper work in the back ground but the article only mentions the prepositioning of military supplies as being different (which I don't think is true).

You can keep repeating that it's the feds job all you want but it wont make it true.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 03:04 PM

Check out this local officials can do attitude.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050922/ap_on_re_us/katrina_pilfered_donations_hk2;_ylt=Ahpgmo_rOq.9zvH8AWvwQX5G2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 03:04 PM

I hope to see you in D.C. this weekend. we have much to do to bring this rig around and sail to the Shores of Peace and Justice.

Peter

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 03:35 PM

You may find this difficult to believe, rarelamb, but my motives in posting that are simply to attempt to give people the benefit of the doubt and credit them when they try to learn from their mistakes and correct their behavior.

Had I criticized Bush in spite of this change in his approach, someone would surely have attacked me for being blinded by hatred of Bush.

You can't have it both ways, you know.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,roadeagle
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 04:29 AM

La. is number one state regarding Army Corp of Engineers federal funding-if you are unaware we are a republic based on preservation of state rights; big daddy federal gov can only do so much and should not mandate how monies are spent in localities. La. and N'orleans has a tradition of corrupt politics(more than the norm)and it's faulty levee system, poverty, and crime rate is directly related to decades of liberal rule. Bush certainly, like all presidents, has had an imperfect presidency, but the blame Bush for everything crowd gets tiresome and is rooted in hysterics and ideological hatred. Many on the left blame global warming created by evil capitalist man and of course W-May I present the fact the polar ice caps on Mars are receding at a rate of ten feet per year. The last time i checked Mars was void of industry-Perhaps, just maybe, warming and cooling trends are cyclically influenced by things like the sun, volcanic activity, ect.. What a concept.
Also, in the last hundred years the peak decades for hurricanes were the 30's, 40's and 50's-why the drop-off in the 60's through the 90's? I could go on and on, but your sure to maintain simplistically non-analytical thought anyway

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 06:58 AM

The only difference with efforts concerning Katrina and Rita was the the lack of delay on the part of the Texas State and local officials. None of this "let me have 24 hours to consider it" as was the case when GWB was almost begging the LA Govenor to accept more help.

Bush did nothing for the effort this time than with Katrina. We are still waiting for comments on how we got htrough 6 Hurricances last year with the same organizational structure and Brown was head of FEMA then. Any comments at all?

I will say that Texas waited a little ling to start and should have done it bt sextions of the cities, not all at once.

roadeagle, with your factual statement, I am sure the last sentence will be the way things go here.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:02 AM

"... GWB was almost begging the LA Govenor to accept more help."

Can you please site a source for this 'factual' statement?

I would like to analyse it.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:53 AM

Guest G--

I know we can't expect you to read earlier in the thread.

So...

Let's go back to why the federal response was far more prompt and massive in Florida in 2004, as opposed to Louisiana in 2005.

As I've said earlier, it's fairly obvious that there was more of a federal political will to step in immediately. If you don't think Bush was in constant contact right from the start with the person who happened to head Florida, and might possibly be a Bush supporter, you're even more naive than I had thought.

Now is it possible that his father had just about lost Florida in 1992 through bungling of Andrew response? And is it possible that Florida had proven to be an absolutely crucial state in 2000? And do you happen to know who the person heading Florida is.? And what was scheduled in November 2004, but not in November 2005?

Do you think any of this could possibly play a role here? Nah, not a chance.

Bush could have done a lot more early in the crisis, short of sending in the National Guard.
But for some reason the hurricane was not on his radar, in contrast to the 2004 Florida hurricane. Now why do you suppose that was?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 01:21 PM

You just can't drop it, eh, Guest, G?

You aren't going to help the Republicans with this partisan bullshit, roadeagle and Guest, G. Disasters transcend party politics. Bush is learning that lesson, and he just might save the Republican party a lot of grief if he succeeds in correcting his behavior in the face of disasters. But you do the Republican party no favors by continuing to try to make it a partisan issue.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 09:43 AM

Ron, the same reason that he did not send in the National Guard.
That has to be done by the state.
I am not making this a political issue - the system has a design and it matters not who is in the Whitehouse Dem or Repub. You guys are trying too hard to make this political and trying with no facts.

Dianavan - read the Washington Post article of Sunday, September 11, 2005. A Sunday article by S.B. Glasser and M. Grunwald. Notice how many times the Governor had to be pulled out of her precious press conferences because THE PRESIDENT CALLED HER!!!!!!

And, when if comes to fault, wait until this is all over and see where the LA Governor and the Mayor of NOLA rank.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 02:17 PM

I couldn't find the Washington Post article that you have sited but I did find the following, written by the same authors:

"Red tape kept the American Ambulance Association from sending 300 emergency vehicles from Florida to the flood zone, according to former senator John Breaux (D-La.) They were told to get permission from the General Services Administration. "GSA said they had to have FEMA ask for it," Breaux told CNN. "As a result they weren't sent."

Doesn't the F in FEMA stand for Federal?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 02:29 PM

O.K., I found it in a link posted by Q on another thread. That article, (very good btw) seems to blame all levels of government. Here is what I read"

When Blanco asked Bush to declare a federal emergency in Louisiana that day, Bush readily agreed.

"The president was told the evacuation was proceeding as planned for New Orleans, according to a senior White House official, and that 11,000 National Guard troops would end up in a position to respond. But Lt. Gen. H. Steven Blum, chief of the Guard, said there were only about 5,100 members on duty in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama before landfall.

At 1:30 p.m. on Saturday, Mayor Ray Nagin and Blanco held a news conference to urge New Orleans residents to make arrangements to evacuate. "This is not a test," the mayor said. "This is the real deal."

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 02:40 PM

...and this, "We're facing the storm most of us have feared," Nagin told an early-morning news conference, the governor at his side. Katrina was now a Category 5 hurricane, set to make landfall overnight.

Minutes earlier, Blanco had been pulled out to take a call from the president, pressed into service by FEMA's Brown to urge a mandatory evacuation. Blanco told him that's just what the mayor would order."

There was alot of information in that article and it seems that there was enough blame to go around for everyone.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 02:52 PM

...and from another thread:

Subject: RE: BS: Previous Presidents and Hurriicanes
From: Bev and Jerry - PM
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 02:30 AM

"The Posse Comitatus Act was passed during the reconstruction era and it makes no mention of a state having to make a request for federal troops. What it does say is that federal troops cannot legally be used for civilian law enforcement. Federal troops can provide equipmnt and supplies, transportation, technical assistance, training and other functions but they cannot be used for law enforcement."

Like Bev and Jerry said, the President should have sent in aid a week before Katrina hit instead of waiting a week...

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 04:52 PM

"Mr. Rove may be an expert on leaks, but that doesn't qualify him to oversee flood relief," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee."


Where You'll Find It

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 10:47 AM

Think Tanks for billionaires are working overtime to provide advantages to the wealthy as a result of the storm.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1106213,00.html

Yes folks they actually are searching for one dead wealthy person from the Katrina storm to support the estate tax bill.
And they still can't find one.




............






There is Outrage at the right, left, center, high and low.

here are the actual outraged words of a red neck Texan regarding storm victims; no this is not a parody...





"Man the people whos homes were destroyed in the hurricaine are making out like thieves legally and illegally. I see them every fucking day. Running around with $5000.00 checks from the government to supplement their illegal incomes. They can withdraw money from banks with no identification and make no mistake about it they are withdrawing money from other peoples accounts as well as fictional accounts. They are getting 3 months (at least) free house payments. They even get a free lawyer if they want one because they are too entirely too busy raising the crime rate and fucking up Texas to have time to apply for all the free federal money that, in addition to what I have allready mentioned, is available to them. There is no doubt that they are the luckiest victims of tragedy ever. No victims of tragedy have ever been nearly so over compensated for it. They are also garenteed jobs here but we arent. And the worst thing is there is no fucking way they will ever go back. Low crime rates in Texas are history. Texans will become unemployed and then their houses will be destroyed in natural disasters and they wont get a fucking dime or any breaks like these coonasses are getting. The only hope we have is that most of them, despite the free lawyers, will be convicted of the crimes they commit and eventually go away that way if not volentarily. There has allready been signifigant inflation since they started arriving. They are ruining our economy. They get everything for free. Free hotel rooms, free food (and its damn good food too) free cash, garenteed jobs, and we are getting to pay higher prices and loose jobs that nobody will give a fuck about because the unemplyment rate will stay the same although thousands of Texans will become unemployed that werent allready unemployed. Im seriously thinking about doing my part for the state. Forced repatriation over the state line. Lousiana or Mexico dont matter to me but the ride is mandatory. I doubt the cops would actually arrest anybody for doing it. It would take a bite out of crime. Im not joking either. If days go buy and you havent heard from me then that means Im running a shuttle and its a mandatory shuttle. Im just waiting for a nod from the police so I will know I am extremely unlikely to ever get in trouble for it and I will start clearing them out of Fort Worth. Rent a cattle trailor and pack them nut to but (about 30 each load) and head for the border. It would only be a few hours drive so they wouldnt have to be fed or watered or let out of the trailor at all untill arrival at their destination which would either be just the other side of the state line or the Mexico line."