Lyr ADD: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)

Subject: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: GUEST,12Stringstan
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 01:42 PM

Does anyone out there have these lyrics. I have a scratchy recording of Stan singing this, but a lot of the lyrics are undecipherable.
I'm assuming Stan to be the author of the song, if not, please correct me
Thanks 12sS

Subject: Lyr Add: MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR (Stan Rogers)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:42 PM

MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR (Stan Rogers 1976) - The note with the dots I have says "I believe the first song for the Inshore Fishermen"

How still lies the bay in the light western airs
Wich blow from the crimson horizon
Once more we tack home with a dry empty hold
Saving gas with the breezes so fair
She's a kindly cape islander old but still sound
But so lost in the long liners shadow
Make and break and make do But the fish are so few
That she wont be replaced should she founder

Ch

In Make and Break Harbour the boats are so few
Too many are pulled up and rotten
Most houses stand empty Old nets hung to dry
Are blown away lost and forgotten

Its so hard not to think of before the big war
When the cod went so cheap but so plenty
Foreign trawlers go by now with long-seeing eyes
Taking all where we seldom take any
And the young folk wont stay with the fisherman's way
Lon ago they all moved to the cities
And the ones left behind , old , tired , and blind
Cant work for "a pound for a penny"

I can see the big draggers have stirred up the bay
Leaving lobster traps smashed on the bottom
Can they think it dont pay to respect the old ways
That make and Break Men have not forgotten
For we still keeep our time by the turn of the time
And this boat that I built with my father
Still lifts to the sky ! The one lunger-and I
Still talk like old friends on the water

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:25 PM

That's pretty much as I learned it, but a few words are different...

But for all we make do the fish are so few...
Foreign trawlers go by with their ALL seeing eye

Keep time by the turn of the TIDE..

The old boat and I still WALK like old friends...


Hellofasong, hellofawriter

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:32 PM

" The old boat and I still WALK like old friends"


"Still talk like old friends..." is correct...
As is "Go by now with LONG seeing eyes"
as is " Make and break and make do"...

But change is part of the folk process right....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:37 PM

I am not going to argue , but those are the words as published in the Fogarty Cove book !! And it IS a hell of a good song !!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:59 PM

This is my favourite of Stan's songs. A tough choice but I rate this #1! Except for spelling errors Leadfingers lyrics are correct. From the note that he mentions they would be from Stan's songbook.
The name "Make and Break Harbour" is taken from the engine that almost all of the inshore fishermen of Nova Scotia used in years past. It was more formally known as the Acadia Gas Engine but nicknamed "make&break" and "putt-putt". It had 1 cylinder and a hell of a big heavy flywheel. It was direct drive to the prop (no clutch or transmission) and the engine had to be stopped to stop the boat. You would use your foot to turn the flywheel to start the engine. If you wanted reverse you would kick the flywheel in the opposite direction and it would run backwards.
Reliable, simple and easy to fix an sea.
   
                         Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:02 PM

P.S.
These engines were also called one-lungers .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 04:12 PM

I'm a HUGE fan of the Garnet Rogers cover of M&BH....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 06:36 PM

I got the song from a well known singer and his words seem to scan better.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 06:47 PM

Funny how people always say that about the first version they hear... It doesn't matter how wrong it may be, the first version one hears always seems to be the 'right' one...

(As if there's such a thing as right and wrong in folk music...)

,-)

"For we still keeep our time by the turn of the time"
Sould read "By the turn of the TIDE"... I suspect that's one of the typos that Sandy mentioned...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:07 PM

So, where is Stan?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:33 PM

Dead

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:42 PM

Clinton is right, it does seem that way, but in my experience not always. I first heard Hobo's Lullaby from Gordon Bok and after hearing Goebel Reeves sing it, there was no contest. Bok did it MUCH better in every way.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make or Break Harbour (Stan Rodgers)
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:53 PM

Kendall, having somone say a ship is omniscient would be weird enough so I'd be distracted. I can understand why a trawler is 'long-seeing'. 'All-seeing' is in the version written by Stephen King. Old friends walking on water is equally bizarre. Old friends may go out on the sea and talk, but if you've ever taken a stroll out on the Atlantic, bring Stan back!

Subject: Lyr Add: MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR (Stan Rogers)
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 04:58 AM

Copied from Stan's official web site:

MAKE AND BREAK HARBOUR

How still lies the bay in the bright western airs
Which blow from the crimson horizon.
Once more we tack home with a dry empty hold,
Saving gas with the breezes so fair.
She's a kindly Cape Islander, old, but still sound
But so lost in the long liner's shadow.
Make and break, and make do, but the fish are so few
That she won't be replaced should she founder.

It's so hard not to think of before the big war
When the cod were so cheap and so plenty.
Foreign trawlers go by now with long-seeing eyes,
Taking all, where we seldom take any;
And so the young folk don't stay with the fisherman's way.
Long ago, they all moved to the cities,
And the ones left behind, old, tired, and blind
Can't work for "a pound or a penny".

CHORUS: In Make and Break Harbour the boats are so few,
Too many are pulled up and rotten.
Most houses stand empty. Old nets hung to dry
Are blown away, lost and forgotten.

I can see the big draggers have stirred up the bay
Leaving lobster traps smashed on the bottom.
Can they think it don't pay to respect the old ways
That Make and Break men have not forgotten?
For we still keep our time to the turn of the tide,
And this boat that I built with my father
Still lifts to the sky! The one-lunger and I
Still talk like old friends on the water.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,12Stringstan
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 12:56 PM

Having spent a few years doing the english folk circuit, I actually knew quite a few of stans songs, but alas, not of stan himself, When i came to Ireland to live my sister went to live for a year in Halifax N.S. and almost immediatly picked up on Stan Rogers, recognising the songs. Before she came back she was given one of his albums on a duplicate cassette, for which i have no name, but recorded live in North America somewhere, And to argue the point earlier, I have never heard anyone peform those songs as good as Stan himself, even though i've heard severel versions beforehand. I now have 3 albums, and a bit of Garnett as well. What a pity this man is no longer with us, I believe he died in a tragic accident.
I think that Stan Rogers should be definetly recognised as one of the all time folk ledgends, who will live on for many years.
12sS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 01:09 PM

I think he already ius 12String...   :-)

See if you can lay hands on his bio, "An Unfinished Conversation"... a pretty good read

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 03:54 AM

Kendall, I think Sorcha deserves a bit more of an answer than that. Stan died on June 2, 1983, at the age of 33. He was on a plane returning to Canada from the Kerrville (Texas) folk festival. A fire on the plane forced an emergency landing in Cincinnati. Most of the people on board died, apparently from smoke inhalation. (That might have been the event that resulted in the law requiring smoke detectors in airplane lavatories, as that's where the fire started.)

There was a story at the time that Stan died as he was trying to help others get out of the plane. I've subsequently heard that wasn't true, but it would be very much in character if it were.

I heard Stan perform on the Philadelphia waterfront in the summer of 1980. The stage was the old Portuguese bark Gazela Primeiro, which was moored there, along with Admiral Dewey's flagship Olympia and the clipper Moshulu. At one point, Stan looked around him, then looked out at the crowd, and said in that powerful voice, "This is a beautiful ship, and by God, Philadelphia, you're lucky to have her!" And we were...to have her, and to have him, that day.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:22 AM

Stan was the best.
S:0)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 07:17 AM

Having actually been to sea for many years (Stan was a land lubber) some of his lyrics just don't scan.
For instance, ..foreign trawlers go by with their long (all) seeing eye... refers to the electronic fish finders that are so efficient that nothing escapes them.

And, old used up nets are THROWN away what with being useless and all.

I consider Stan Rogers to be one of the all time great song writers, but I wish I had never met him. He was a bully and a crashing boor.The only Canadian I ever met whom I took an instant dislike to. Maybe he spent too much time in the states.

I read that biography; it's worth the reading. Maybe if I had gotten to know him I would have liked him, but that one weekend at Indian Neck was all I wanted of him.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:57 AM

Kendall, Stan was born in Ontario far from the sea but his parents were from Nova Scotia. His mothers family were from the mainland shore of the Chedabucto Bay, which is the southern mouth of the Strait of Canso. He spent summers as a youth with these fisher folk, who lived on and from the sea, and though born a land lubber his heart pumped salt water.
I have seen Stan perform with John Allen Cameron long before he had gained any degree of fame , and I was instantly impressed with his musical abilities. Like you, I was not instantly impressed with his personality, and I can understand what you say. However, I think that we may both have been mistaken. I did not know Stan personally , but I live in the area (on the Cape Breton Island side) of the Strait and I know people who knew him very well. Almost all paint a far different picture of the man. Suffice to say that he was one hell of a talent, and his delete a great loss to the folk world.
               Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:02 AM

"delete ???"
should read "death."
I'm not much of a typist! I don't know where the hell that came from! :-}
                Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:03 AM

I agree that he was one of the greats, and it was a tragic loss to all who love this type of music.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:04 AM

By the way, make and break refers to the ignition system on the old one lung engines. Very simple, but very limited too.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:14 AM

Yes, a very simple magneto system, but reliable as hell. As long as you had a spare spark plug it would get you home almost always.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:44 AM

Limited?
Low power (just enough horses to keep that big flywheel rotating; torque did the rest)
Slow (two speeds, stop and go) I think that you could vary the fuel valve a slight amount.
Heavy ( that flywheel alone must have been 100 lbs.)
Hey, we must remember that this fantastic invention replaced a set of oars, which were still carried , just in case, but were seldome needed.

My father had one of these when I was a child so I speak only from faded memory.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,breezy
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:46 AM

Its on Home in Halifax, which alo includes the lyric sheet,   



The cod 'went' so cheap and so plenty

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 10:04 AM

Everytime Stan Rogers comes up, Kendall manages to insert his insults about him. I for one, am tired of it. Kendall how about keeping your negativity to yourself for once?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:31 AM

When I first saw Stan perform I thought him a bit brash or boastful, but when I listened closely my opinion quickly changed. Perception can be so subjective........... Stan had tremendous stage prescence fired by his talent and his physical size.
Stan has become an icon but he was never a saint. He was as human as any of us, made his own mistakes and did things his own way. He had a strong will and was firm in beliefs that he freely expressed. That from a man of Stan's massive frame may have at times have been seen as that of a bully. Many similar views expressed from a man the size of Woody Guthrie would be taken with a lesser feeling of intimidation. To my mind they were cut from similar cloth, cared deeply for "the poor workers" and didn't give a shit about the rich executives of the recording industry.
   The talent of either one was enough to gain them fame, mostly by word of mouth.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:00 PM

Kendall seems to have made a judgement based on a first impression. Unfortunately, a first impression is as far as it going to get. I try to give people a chance to show me what they're like. If I only had first imprresions to go by, some friends would definitely not be friends and disingenuous ones would still seem all chummy.

Kendall, you're grouchy and crab at someone you've just met, perhaps lobbing some of those one-liners at them. You realize what you've done later and intend to apologize the next day, or at least try to explain. The next morning, before you have a chance to see the person you were rude to, you die during sex when your parachute fails to open. Would you think that the individual would be right to post messages on a world-wide forum saying you were a crashing (ow) bore?

I'd guess that the nets weren't old when they were hung up to dry. Thanks for the explanation of the ship's 'eye'. I still think 'all-seeing' sounds a bit too Stephen King. (He ought to write one called 'Fishfinder') But I understand now why the 'well-known singer' (Might I be likely to guess the first three letters of his last name?) sings it that way.

I wonder what you'd say if you were here
Where the answers are never easy, nor the questions even clear
And heroes have to learn their strength and angels earn their wings
But one single life can change so many things

People are out of chances to get to know him and he doesn't have any way to make anything right, and when you live out there and your spirit shines so undeniably bright, you're gonna piss some people off.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:28 PM

"Kendall how about keeping your negativity to yourself"
But then he'd have nothing to post at all...
Oh....
Right....


"some of his lyrics just don't scan"
One must remember... Stan was writing poetry... not documentary...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:00 PM

This site will tell you all about the Make & Break one-lunger.
Sorry,I have no luck with clickies so please cut and paste to your browser.
    http://www.oldmarineengine.com/history/Acadia/Acadia.htm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:14 PM

Guest, you may have noticed that I am not the only one who saw him as a bully and a bore, so why single me out?
This was not a brief first impression, I spent a weekend with him and I saw him as a bully and a boor. If you don't like it, that's tough but don't tell me what I saw, I was there.

Now, I also said that in my opinion, he was one of the great song writers of our time. Do you have a problem with that too?

Clinton, I wouldn't say too much about negative posts if I were you.
I honor Stan as a great writer and performer, but if you need to make a god out of a mere human, go ahead. Just don't try to invalidate my personal opinion.You have no right.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:18 PM

You may want to see the thread on Santa Cruz guitars.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: GUEST,other guest
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:19 PM

Maybe, he JUST DIDN'T LIKE YOU, Kendall.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:37 PM

Who's making a 'god' out of anyone?

" Just don't try to invalidate my personal opinion."
Your personal opinion isn't worth a tinkers fart to anyone but you kendall... just like everyone elses....

If I give you a quarter, could you over-react more?

Maybe we could have a clone delete all the posts in this thread after 09 Sep 05 - 02:42 PM...   That way it's still a decent thread, and not this cluster f#ck...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:19 PM

I'm the first to admit that my opinion is no better than anyone else's.
However, none of you were there. I was. He didn't like me? He never got to know me, I don't hang out with people who insult women in public for absolutly no reason.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:21 PM

Another post worth deleting....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:23 PM

Ok, ok, he was a great guy, everybody loved him, Mr. Personality himself who would never tell a married woman in the presense of her husband that she had the nicest ass in the place. Happy now?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:24 PM

And one more....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:26 PM

If I might be allowed to venture another opinion...I think the Wreck of the Jeannie C was one of his best.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:27 PM

Just gotta clutter this thread to death don't ya, ken-doll....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 06:49 PM

I can't imagine anyone finding fault with my last post. Oh, well.

Going back over the thread, I realize that I was grumpy as Jeri pointed out, and I also hijacked the thread. For that part, I do apologize.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 07:13 PM

Erm...actually I was asking about the Stan that started the thread...I did know about Stan Rogers....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 07:48 PM

I am sorry if this thread has become a pissing match. I often do not agree with Kendall, but I respect his knowledge and expertise, and I would say the same for Clinton. I have learned a great deal from the Mudcat forum and from time to time I hope to help others as well. While this song is well known, terms such as "Make&Break" and "one lungers" may be foreign to many. Perhaps the thread will help some understand some of Stan's perspective. Stan wrote this song for people that he knew and not for a wider audience. I try to clarify some of the terms used and it is readily apparent that Kendall understands. Make and Break Harbour does not exist as any single place. It is any harbour that has been devistated by changes in the fishery and the term can be applied to many places in Maritime Canada and I am sure, New England as well. All of these old fishermen used Make & Break engines which were to the fishing boat what the Model T was to the car.
As for Stan's personal traits we all have some that are high and some a bit lower. That is being human. Memory often keeps the higher ones and discards the lower, and perhaps that is how it should be.
             Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Beer
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:25 PM

If you (anyone) still have a one lunger/make and break in good working order they are worth a fortune to a collector.
Beer
Oh! and Make and Break Harbour is a great great song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 09:20 PM

"Funny how people always say that about the first version they hear"

It's called 'The Little Yellow Baby Duck Syndrome' as christened years ago in Byte magazine, talking about text editors. Like the baby duck you get imprinted on the first thing you see - 'Mummy!'

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:51 PM

That's very interesting FT!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: number 6
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:00 PM

Kendall is stating his point (nothing wrong with that) ... and what I have heard of Stan, Kendall's view of his character's seems to say it like it was ... and even Stan would probably agree with it.

Stan Rogers was a land lubber from Hamilton Ontario and he was an Upper Canadian all his life, never having lived in the maritimes. His parents were from Nova Scotia.

All this being said ... Stan was one hell of a songwriter who deserves the accolades given to him.

sIx

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Make and Break Harbour (Stan Rogers)
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:40 PM

As a musician and song writer, yes. He certainly does.