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BS: Belfast Riots
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Subject: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:01 PM Turn in your weapons and just see what the prods will to you. More than 30 police officers were injured in Northern Ireland's worst rioting in years and the intent was to kill. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Al Whittle Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:09 PM these would be the policemen that you couldn't possibly approve of because they were so obviously lackeys of the prods and Brits yeh you're right we don't understand...! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: John MacKenzie Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:27 PM Would you for goodness sake stop throwing light on the subject, that's the last thing they want. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Sorcha Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:41 PM Link since inflammatory Guest couldn't be arsed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,bob Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:56 PM Surely all those jolly good fellows from the disbanded IRA could form a police protection corps as they are so concerned for their safety. Laughed? I nearly flashed my fags. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: dianavan Date: 11 Sep 05 - 01:03 PM From the above link: "At a news conference in Belfast on Sunday, Sir Hugh said he saw members of the Orange Order attacking PSNI officers." Well, at least now, the police know who their enemies are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 01:12 PM Dont waste time posting, I saw these young chaps on television news, ages 5 to 13. Its not loyalists and another thing it was said on this site about loyalists murdering people in Northern Ireland and that the Troubles appear not to be over. Four times as many people have been murdered in London in the same period, the same number in Manchester as in the North in the same period. So drop the post and ignore the thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 11 Sep 05 - 02:33 PM BBC article here It does seem to me that there is a loyalist element (and I don't mean all loylists) that has no interest in peace. Ian Paisley (not surprisingly) is quoted as saying "The Parades Commission are to blame for the mess that has been created," |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 02:40 PM That is the broken Ian Paisley record talking. When riots break out during loyalist parades, DUP and the OO blame the Parades Commission, or any other convenient scapegoat. I wouldn't say this is anything to be ignored by a long shot. This is the most violent rioting to come out of the loyalist community in a very long time, and this sort of an orchestrated attack on the police and army is significant. To suggest otherwise is just irresponsible and dangerous. This isn't a case of lads being lads. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:02 PM Loyalists shot dead the first and last policeman of the conflict so why not the last public disorder act ! Look at the age of those arrested, kids. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:34 PM It is a damn shame to raise children to hate at such a young age. The Loyalists have no corner on this, but it does show the problem with attaining for the people of the North of Ireland a lasting peace. What does one expect when a segment of society tolerates and encourages the desecration of churches, terrorizing of schoolgirls and balloons full of urine thrown at children. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:44 PM Young boys have always been used as pawns by their respective communities in the Troubles, but Guest 1:12 & 4:02 is grossly exaggerating their involvement in the riots, in a pathetic attempt to gloss over the seriousness of the rioting and what it means to the security of the people and the peace process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:39 PM Irish Timesarticle:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2005/0911/
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Peace Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:41 PM http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2005/0911/ Hope you don't mind, Garg. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 10:46 PM Hey--every other time the Orange Order and Protestant paramilitaries have thrown these kinds of temper tantrums, it has worked like a charm, and the government caves to their demands. Will this time prove any different? I doubt it. Already, there are politicians both sides the border lining up to take a shot a Sinn Fein and the IRA, because the IRA hasn't begun to disarm yet. And of course, what isn't being discussed is, this is what those lovely Protestant paramilitaries and the Orange Order do when they aren't allowed to storm their way into Catholic neighborhoods. Also what isn't being discussed is the widespread targeting of victims in Catholic areas all summer long, including targeting and running people out of their homes (a time honored tradition among the Protestant paras), a killing spree as the paras fight for dominance, and general building of tensions over Protestants not being allowed their "cultural tradition" of political dominance over and intimidation of the Catholic nationalist community. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Tiocfaidh Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:32 PM ... and all they wanted to talk about was something else ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Tiocfaidh Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:36 PM "It does seem to me that there is a loyalist element (and I don't mean all loylists) that has no interest in peace. " Jesus, Jon, you're ill-informed! What a f***ing pillock! You don't even know what 'Loyalism' means, for God's sake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Tiocfaidh Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:38 PM "Four times as many people have been murdered in London in the same period, the same number in Manchester as in the North in the same period" ... as it was during all of the 'Troubles', Guest. Would that your media was as even-handed... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Paul Burke Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:53 AM What happened to the Drumcree threads? And what happened at Drumcree this year? Though I must say that had it happened on the Falls rather than Shankill Gerry Adams would probably have been arrested by now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:23 AM I love to keep saying it, BUT I TOLD YOU SO. Have a look at the photos and see the "young kids" rioting balding greyheads bedecked in orange sashes, and all because they cannot parade through Catholic areas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:33 AM What other city in the civilised world has 'catholic areas?'. And the beat goes on.............. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Stu Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:08 AM "What other city in the civilised world has 'catholic areas?'. And the beat goes on . . ." What is that supposed to mean? It also has Loyalist areas doesn't it? Or perhaps this was a stab at irony. Tiocfaidh - define 'Loyalism' for people who don't live in the North then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:12 AM Other cities do. They are called "black areas", ghettoes, etc. Different issue, same shit. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:18 AM You don't even know what 'Loyalism' means, for God's sake By loyalist, I simply meant those whose natural allegience would be to the Brittish government. Call them protestants if you prefer, or suggest another name for people who live on one side? I'm afraid when it comes to people, and whatever you care to call it lets say protestants and catholics, I don't see things in black and white that one side is all evil and the other side all whiter than white. That has never been my experience with any group of people (even folkies!) I've ever known in any aspect of my life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:21 AM Exactly, and until the people living there can stop defining their locality by religious allegiances nothing will change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:29 AM In over 25 years of social activism, it has been my experience that those that are descriminated against would gladly stop defining their loyalty by religious allegiances or color or whatever. They form these allegiances out of a need for self protection. It is typical of the discriminator, when public opinion is going against them, to say something on the order of "OK, time to stop defining ourselves this way. Let's all just get along". Sounds good, doesn't work. When you have systematically held folks down, in this case for centuries, then you must take pro active steps to correct the inequities in the system, as well as in folks attitudes. A good start would be to quit alibi'ing the actions of the various Loyalist groups that continue to attempt to shoot down all peace attempts. A second good step would be full prosecution of the people who do these horrendous things to Catholic kids and churches, never mind those that run folks out of their homes. Why do you keep trying to justify and shift blame? Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:32 AM The loyalist community have a right to be angry. What has been handed to them on a plate for remaining loyal to our government ? Maybe they are seeing who it's done. And they were kids rioting, not grown men. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:36 AM Shift blame, Mick? I don't think so and think there are far more wrongs on the loyalist (british government even if you like) side. I agree that injustices can bring out the worst in people and situations can create terrorism - I feel that way over our governments stances over Iraq, etc. But there in lies a question: Let's say the muslim case is strong... at what point would you justify the bombing of innocent people in London to uphold the cause? The IRA in my mind have done that and even if you chose to paint people who will do that whiter than white, I'm afraid I don't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:50 AM Mick try and open both eyes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Wolfgang Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:40 AM Disarm the loyalists too (Guardian) Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:44 AM I couldn't agree more, Wolfgang. Did write to my MP when a suggestion came up in MC... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:51 AM I have said in any number of posts, on numerous threads, that I have never found the bombing of innocent civilians to be a legitimate tactic. But the responses above exactly make my point as to why you folks are continually seen in a negative light. This thread is about the riots by Loyalists over the refusal to allow them to march through the same neighborhoods that have seen their 8 to 12 year old little girls terrorized in vicious ways that will likely scar them for life, thrown balloons filled with urine at them, defaced their churches, driven Catholics out of their homes at gunpoint in the middle of the night, and on and on. You folks, instead of attacking that want to keep on about the IRA. This group is the leader in trying to make the peace process work. The Loyalists are the ones trying to torpedo this same process. The Republicans have embraced the political process, and have given up the gun, even in the face of continued aggression from the Loyalist communities. And all you can do is be apologists for the actions of these enemies of peace. Many things were done during this version of the troubles that are regretable and horrific. The tally sheet will give plenty of fodder for both sides to throw. The only road to peace is the one paved with the good intentions of the British people. Until they quit any support of the Loyalists whose aim it is to kill the peace process, the trouble will go on. The past is a road filled with recrimination, and both sides can make arguments as to the validity of theirs. The future will be built by the actions of decent people who act ......... or don't ...... in the best interests of peace. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:07 AM Mick to say that anyone on this thread is being an apologist for the loyalists and that the british support them, shows just how far removed from this situation you are. And the emotive acts that you continually state have been commited on BOTH sides. You see the majority of people living here want peace, not endless mud slinging. And where are these guns the republicans have given up? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:09 AM Wrong Mick, my responses were to what I percieved as insults. My own view one this specific issue was expressed in the first post when I said, "It does seem to me that there is a loyalist [simply meaning one side of a divide] element (and I don't mean all loylists) that has no interest in peace." If I had my way there wouldn't be these marches... They funniest or saddest thing in all this is that only republicans can put me off republicans... And once again, IMO, it was one of the more rabid ones that changed the directions of my comments in this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 09:10 AM GUEST - The guns are in the dumps as ordered. Hope that helps. Mick - Couldn't have said it any better. :) E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 09:26 AM Sometimes things can be seen best from afar. Both of you must agree as you continually post on the problems in the US, often with a great deal of self righteous indignation. If it is your right to continually tell us "Yanks" and "Plastic Paddy's" what is wrong with us and our government, then it is mine to say it as I see it with regard to the North of Ireland. Your only answers to the arguments raised are to try and raise the old "we just don't understand cause we don't live there" flag. It is a sure sign of the weakness of your arguments. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 09:52 AM Mick you are unable to present a balanced view, because you don't hold one. Your bias is staggeringly naieve. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 09:56 AM Who is the both Mick? I see one nameless Guest who I've no clue who it is (and therefore can not know what stances have been made elsewhere)and me disagreening with some of your stances and I for one can't remember ever accusing you of being a plastic paddy or suggesting you should not be allowed to express your views. Where do you get that from? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:07 AM Ever bought a newspaper that supports the IRA mick? Ever contributed to NORAID? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:08 AM Yes and yes. So what does that make me, GUEST? :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:27 AM As one who was born and bred in Belfast, I am appalled at the complete lack of knowledge from some of the above posts, especially from some "GUESTS". To put it in a nutshell, the weekend of riots by loyalists was not caused because they could not march, it was because they could not march through a catholic district. In othere words their marches (approx 4,000) from May to September are not marches to define or retain their culture, the reason for the marces is simply to antagonize their catholic neighbours. These marches do not mean anything to the orange order unless they accomplish that goal. Antagonise, insult, etc etc etc. NO MORE. Orange marches through catholic areas would be the same as the american army marching through Hiroshima, or marching through Georgia, year in and year out. NO MORE. Hold their marches through loyalist areas as there will be no trouble. Period. This violence wa orchestrated simply to ensure the catholic areas will feel threatened and maybe have to call on the I.R.A. for protection, then the loyalists and their politicians can start squaking about the I.R.A. breaking another promise. The marches have nothing to do with culture, they have to do with antagonism, and if they fail to accomplish that, then the reason for marching at all will have lost it's meaning and hopefully they will just fade away, much like the orange order is doing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:28 AM The last post abot the reason for the marches is by me. Jimmy.C |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Den Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:29 AM And where are these guns the republicans have given up? You might want to chat with Canadian General John de Chastelain. He was brought in to over-see the decommissioning of IRA weapons. He and The Independent International Commission on Decommissioning seem satisfied that the IRA have complied. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:31 AM Hello, Jimmy. Thank-you. E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:42 AM Come back Conrad Bladey, all is forgiven. I used to detest your extreme loyalist views over here but I'm beginning to think there are some republicans in this thread who deserve you. Jon Over and out for this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 10:50 AM Well done epona. Hope you are mighty proud of helping to buy the means to murder innocent adults and children. And Mick, as someone else who has also upped their coffers, it's easy to wax lyrical from another continent while financing murder elsewhere. And you have the gall to call others self righteous. I'm out of here too, have you noticed mick, no one living in the UK shares your views, guess that means we are all wrong. Roll on your next veterans thread, the hypocrisy reeks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 11:14 AM I take pride in helping to promote the peace process through non-violent means through Irish Northern Aid. I love the organization and it's members. Check out the mission statement, GUEST, if you are in doubt of their peaceful goals now. www.inac.org. I'm also proud of collecting historical newspapers, which are displayed in my office, in order to preserve the memories of the struggle. It is always amazing to me to see the development over time of the Republican movement in the North, and I am extremely proud of that progress as well, though we have a way to go. Helping to buy the means to murder innocent adults and children? YOUR tax dollars and mine go to funding the same thing...have you been unaware of the British and American troops in Iraq? I appreciate your attempts to disrupt the discussion, but the members of mudcat will keep on in your absence. Enjoy your day...nothing but blue skies here. :) E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Bill D Date: 12 Sep 05 - 11:20 AM As one who is as neutral as can be imagined...neither Catholic OR Protestant, and only vaguely Irish, and having read stories about all this since about 1970 or so, I see plenty or blame to go around and plenty of narrow, bitter, self-centered views about cause and solutions....much as in the middle-east, the Balkans or Los Angeles. But in the current context, I must agree totally with Jimmy C. The spark in these troubles was a march, planned and carried out knowing it would open old wounds and dare the hot-heads on the other side to "do something about it" so a claim could be made that "he started it"! The marches seem to me to be 5% celebration and 95% provocation, with no real goal except to assert their 'rights'. I can just imagine the result if the Israelis, having withdrawn from occupying Gaza, now assert their 'right' to march thru it a couple of times a year. (and I don't care if you consider that an inaccurate comparison...it makes the point) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 11:27 AM Jon, you are correct. Chalk that one up to quick response. I have just went back and read all your contributions to this thread. I could do that because you use the identity always. You have never suggested that I or anyone else is a plastic paddy. In fact, your responses are usually very respectful. I don't agree with you on all aspects of this, but you do not deserve to be lumped in. I apologize. GUEST, you are another matter. You simply fall back on the old tried and true, "You are naieve" line. Doesn't hold water, and is a sign of intellectual weakness. The fact is that most, by a remarkable percentage, of the provocations are being done by the Loyalist/Unionist community in the hopes of destroying the peace process. This can only be because they want the status quo maintained. I find it laughable that they are now whinging about the concessions given to the IRA. Where were these cries of outrage over several centuries of the favoritism that benefitted them. And this isn't ancient history. The fact is that until the Good Friday Agreement, the institutional discrimination against the Catholic/Republican folks was rampant. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 12:01 PM Where are the ususal IRA mouthpieces? very quiet on this thread. Expected to hear a history lesson. Spoke to a friend in Belfast last night who said the incidents which appeared on the news were it. A few cars burned and a swipe or two at the police and army. Media making news out of nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 12:02 PM Well I will come back for this Mick. Accepted Mick. Hopefully my "come back Conrad"... comments can be taken by you in a similar vein - a post made by me in sheer anger, rather than any desire to see him back here or be taken as to mean (regardless on points we may agree or disagree over) a change in position from me to one whereby I no longer wish that the people in NI manage one day to live in peace. To clarify, mine is simply I believe wrongs exist on both sides, there have been actions I can not ever accept on either side (again you can count my Britsh government in as a criminal at times). And on this particular issue, I can only see a desire to march through Catholic territory as a desire to provoke hatred. What still gets me is that a simple statement like. It does seem to me that there is a loyalist element (and I don't mean all loylists) that has no interest in peace. Is enough to get me called a pillock from some republicans, even though the blame I was attaching was cleary to loyalists and to no-one else. The problem I have here is that I can not dot the "I's" and the "T's" carefully enough to please all republicans here and fail to see that everyone who because of the side they are born on by whatever terms of division (loyalist, protestant) we use must be evil (or saintly for that matter). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 12:17 PM Jon - I always appreciate when someone posts the truth as they see it. Unlike some (and I am guilty of this everyone once in a while :) ) you have tried to be level-headed when engaged in discussion here, and we all have those posts where we lash out at a mudcatter or two. Your contributions are welcomed and valued because the purpose of the threads is to have discussions and when only speaking to those that share your same viewpoint, discussions aren't nearly as lively or interesting. I would encourage you to hang around a little longer and let Tiocfaidh explain why he posted what he posted...And Tiocfaidh, I know you've had a long couple of days recently, but maybe you could just give us a brief post on loyalism :) (your definition, etc) E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,David Hannam Date: 12 Sep 05 - 12:35 PM I regard the whole NI dispute foolish. Two peoples, identical, warring over what? Nothing. The only beneficiary from the disputes are drug-barrons and weapons smugglers. To even contemplate sustaining the argument over historical details etc, is suicide of a nation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 12:41 PM GUEST-one more thing for you in case you decide to check back in with our progress. And really, for anyone interested in some background on supporting murder... The British government funded, equipped and supplied the Red Hand Commandos in Ulster - the leadership admitted it. Also, the Brits funded and trained the early UVF. Interesting bit of info I thought. Still beautiful here - literally not a cloud in the sky! Cheers! E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 12:44 PM Hello again! For any of you that want to follow up on my post above, just refer to Peter Taylor's tv series "Loyalists." All that I just posted was admitted to on tv. And David, I love historical details! That's what I do, though the arguing part I could do without. Love learning new things, though. Have any historical details to throw my way? E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 01:35 PM Good man Jon! Just proves what a Class 1 dipstick you really are. 'Loyalists' are extreme Unionists, ye feckin' eejit. Note the word extreme in that sentence. ... and the incongruity with the term interest in peace... You (like a good few others), talk off the top of your head half the time; a hazy mixture of sound bytes remembered, things your family or schoolfriends said, and damage limitation. Damage limitation, because you know the injustices served upon us, and that if the same thing was to have happened the English, your people would have reacted just the same.... like, for instance if DeValera hadn't had locked up all those Germans during WWII, and Germany did manage to invade, your 'Resistance Army' would have been an honourable concept, would it not? Are you telling us theat the French Resistance were terrorists? As for taking religion out of politics... Sinn Féin have been advocating the union of the Working Classes since Civil Rights; but you never heard them say this, as you couldn't hear their voices... banned as they were from telling you what Sinn Féin was all about. Wolfgang... there is a whole thread covering Loyalist weapons. (I thought you were one of the more thoughtful members of this forum...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: ard mhacha Date: 12 Sep 05 - 01:48 PM Some Guests on this page are bigger liars than Blair and Bush, we have been told the rioting was carried on by children,and the rioting was minimal?, the damage has been estimated to run into millions. The police were fired on by armed loyalists and one prominent loyalists is in hospital as a result of a blast bomb going off prematurely, the Klan in the guise of the orange order are angry because they cannot get marching through Harlem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:19 PM Thanks for the reply Tir, it underlines my feeling that poison indeed does exist on both sides. Jon Over and out for good this time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 02:33 PM Oh and I forgot, thanks Epona for asking me to stick around a bit. I'd had hoped that your reply had meant at least maybe some attempt towards some understanding even if agreement was not to be achieved. But once again, I'm left feeling there is no such desire in certain quarters here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 03:42 PM That is the problem, Guest,Jonoverandoutforgoodthistime, your perceptions suit your thought processes. We don't perceive, you see. We have had to learn it by experience, instead. The Loyalists are pissed off cos they can't march through Nationalist areas. I'm left feeling there is no desire from certain quarters at even a bit of lip-service paid to this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:46 PM If it isnt them it's you. If it isnt you it's them. Maybe the rest of us are bored to the eye teeth with the bullying and bloodshed on both sides. Untie yourself from the whipping post and stop licking your wounds because after thirty years of terrorism you had to admit you were getting fucking nowhere. Tough. Deal with it. Move on and grow up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:03 PM Thirty years of armed struggle brought us further than the 600 previous ones. You have to admit that We have been trying to untie ourselves from that whipping post fro years, Guest, but it is very difficult to untie your own hands, feet, and to remove the gag, while the public are constantly calling for your blood. Name me a scenario that we see now, that was caused because the Nationalist population of one area insisted on their right to march through a Loyalist area? If it isn't them...., then who is it, Guest. It can't be us. We are not at war any longer. Perhaps you and your kind would like to deal with it. You seem to have avoided every opportunity afforded to you so far, however. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:17 PM He hit me first. No I didn't. Yes he did. For crying out loud, after 630 years at your reckoning, why don't the people of NI realise that the only way forward is to shelve the who hit who first crap and concentrate on the future. And before you tell us how the IRA are trying, listen to yourself, it's all us and them still. Maybe the next generation will be more clued up. Or maybe you aren't representative of the present. But either way try and find some common ground. Start here, tell us something you like about England. If you asked us what we like about Ireland you would have a thread full of praise for the natural beauty, the warmth of the people , the love of the arts, the passion of the poets and authors etc etc etc. That doesn't mean there aren't some right eyesore buildings and ignorant arses over there. But why dwell on the negative. Go on, tell us something you like/admire about England. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:51 PM "why don't the people of NI realise that the only way forward is to shelve the who hit who first crap and concentrate on the future" It is the likes of yourself who are concentrating on the who hit who second, strategem. We can hardly be blamed for button-holing you on this, and putting you right. Something I admire about England? Tha fact that some of its people don't buy into defending an oppressive State, such as you live in. That, Colman's Mustard, and Fairport Convention |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:56 PM Now, you go on and name me a scenario (like what's happening right now), that was caused because the Nationalist population of one area insisted on their right to march through a Loyalist area? It's not even a question of 'who hit who first', Guest. Doesn't even get as far as that. It is and always has been a question of 'these bastards are killing us, and all we hear are middle class English people singing "We Shall Overcome" in folk clubs' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:59 PM Belfast very normal here tonight. Media not out stirring it up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:00 PM You nearly fell at the first hurdle with the 'likes of yourself', generalisations are lazy. In case you have missed it, I hate those on both sides who indiscriminately kill. Is that clear enough? You also have no knowledge of my politics. But we agree on Colman's mustard. Now, that wasn't too hard was it? Seeing as we have found safety in all things culinary, do they still sell Taylor's red lemonade? Tayto crisps? Beanos? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:07 PM I like Robbie Williams! ;) GUEST, I could almost agree with you about the "who hit whom first" scenario except this isn't just an issue dealing with history. These problems aren't behind us yet, though the day they are will be unforgetable! These issues of loyalist terror conducted against Republicans and Catholics is ongoing as we've been discussing. It may be an old, OLD problem, but regardless of its age, it's still current. The PSNI and British troops still remain on the sidelines and watch as loyalist paramilitaries terrorize residents of Catholic and Republican areas. Maybe that will change now that the "law" of the North of Ireland has come under direct fire from the same gangs they used to back. One can only pray that it will be so. We'll have to watch and see... E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:10 PM epona I have no interest in 'sides' and even less in robbie I'm afraid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:14 PM My interest is in Eire being whole again. No interest in Robbie?! Shocking! :) Haha... E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:15 PM Yeah, well you called it 'terrorism' guest. The 'likes of yourself' call it terrorism too |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:23 PM I have no problem being collectively labelled as one who calls killing innocents terrorism. See, we agree again, this is becoming a habit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:33 PM That's great, Guest. Let's hear it for the British Army now..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:39 PM Any particular reason why? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:44 PM This is not one of those times where one can say "In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king", Guest The particular reason why, might be that you 'hate people who indiscriminately kill . ... and we were doing so well |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:48 PM Exactly, not one armed organisation (illegal or otherwise) has come out of this mess unscathed. Where you might feel comfortable defending the murder of innocents, I do not. Lets face it no one has played a blinder over there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:58 PM EVERY death is tragic, Guest; every last one. But why not condemn the actions of your army directly, instead of terminology like 'illegal or otherwise', and 'no one'? The vocabulary comes from the same stable as the collective, 'ALL', when referring to any other grouping than 'Sinn Féin/IRA', and it covers up (from what I can make out) a very deep sense of guilt hidden inside the British mentality. Not only have you failed the first hurdle, Guest. You've made a few false starts to boot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:01 PM The IRA were an illegal army, the British army aren't. That isn't opinion. I can't really see where your paranoia over the words 'no one' is coming from, you are crediting me with sublime messages that I haven't sublimed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:08 PM 'Illegal' in your eyes, maybe... Opinion it is, then. But what you're saying is that if you are a 'legal' entity, you can commit war crimes with greater impunity. Not paranoid, Guest. Just being as pedantic as you. So..., why not condemn the actions of your Army directly. No buts.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:14 PM I wholesale condemn the illegal actions of any armed organisation, no problem there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:15 PM But what you're saying is that if you are a 'legal' entity, you can commit war crimes with greater impunity. Erm no. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:40 PM Sorry to interupt, folks, but I must correct GUEST. When you say the IRA is illegal, it wasn't illegal until the British Government made it illegal. If you recall, the great Republican Bobby Sands and company died on hunger strike because they ceased to be treated as combatants. The Government arbitrarily decided they were no longer prisoners of war, that they were now common criminals. Kind of like they considered doing to the American revolutionaries. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:47 PM You're not correcting me. I said it was illegal and you have just agreed with me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:47 PM Mick, in fact they (the British) first used the word terrorist to describe the Sons of Liberty, an American patriot group that was fighting for independence. According to the crown, it was illegal to be a Son, and yet today we honour them as heros. Interesting, isn't it? E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:01 PM I haven't, Guest. Not that it'll make a whole lot of difference to your everyday, as we don't, erm..., know who you are, but just let me see you condemn the State Sponsored Terrorism your Government and it's pillars visited upon a people who, without exception English, Scottish and Welsh Mudcatters agree, are a very friendly and open people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:06 PM You haven't what? Sorry to be slow on the uptake but the concurrent threads are taxing at this hour. I thought I already had condemned all attrocities carried out by armed organisations. I know I did, because we had the illegal or otherwise sideline following it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:23 PM tee heeeeeeeee |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:26 PM I haven't agreed that the IRA was an illegal organisation. The British Government outlawed the Irish language, the practice of Catholicism. Did that make it illegal to us? You haven't mentioned the British Army by name, Guest. Same way as up until Tiocfaidh, Tír Chonaill, and myself made some of our detractors mention the words 'Loyalist' and 'Terrorist', related to each other, in the same sentence. Same way as we are trying to get good folks to say British Army/Loyalist Terrorist in the same fashion. Care to take the plunge? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:39 PM tee heeeeeeeee |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:40 PM Haha! Hey, GUEST, you should check out the World's Thinnest Books thread and see if you can any. I love that one. E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:42 PM Nice try. I haven't agreed with you, because I don't recognize Great Britain as the legal authority in the North of Ireland. I simply pointed out that they only became illegal because your government said so. You see, I don't get where they get their legal authority. Could you point the way towards the constitution or articles that make the North of Ireland a legitimate entity? So if it isn't, then the change in status was simply by fiat? Nope, your folks just continued a centuries old policy of telling the Irish that if they won't be nice, you will just change the rules. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:46 PM GUEST - I think you need some sleep soon because you're, erm...getting silly. :) E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 08:53 PM I simply pointed out that they only became illegal because your government said so. Yes mick that's the way law works. Tir if it's all the same with you I'll skip this thread and leave it to the ex vet to extoll the virtues of peace. Sheesh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 09:18 PM Cool, but before you leave could you answer the question? Or any of the questions? That's the way the law works in a legally constituted government. Where is this body in the North of Ireland? What authority is it that brought it into being? Oh .... that's right .... it happened at the point of a gun barrel ..... seems I remember the folks there never did quite accept that. And me being a vet has what to do with any of this? Intellectual weakling. Always has been. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain Date: 12 Sep 05 - 09:20 PM Suit yourself, Guest, but Mick hasn't said anything untrue here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: dianavan Date: 13 Sep 05 - 12:22 AM Correct me if I'm wrong. I've been trying to follow this thread... The Loyalists wanted to march through a Catholic part of town to antagonize the residents there. Loyalists also shot at police. It doesn't take too many brains to figure out that the Loyalists are wrong. I used to think that once Ireland became whole again, the Loyalists would just assimilate into the Irish culture. I am beginning to think that when Ireland becomes whole, the Loyalists will have to be stripped of their Irish citizenship and be sent back to England. Maybe England doesn't want them either. The Loyalists in Ireland are wrong and if they want to stay in Ireland they should stop making so much trouble. They should learn to live in peace or they will be arrested as traitors. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Paul Burke Date: 13 Sep 05 - 04:04 AM We certainly don't want them. They aren't British in the same way as anyone except the loonies of the British Movement, they aren't loyal to anyone except themselves, I'd rather have yardies than that shower of amateur racketeers. How do I know they are amateurs? Pros would have left the place long ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,David Hannam Date: 13 Sep 05 - 04:11 AM Everyone i so wrapped up in the blame game. Scoring points against each other. The whole dispute is a farce, the whole Ireland civil dispute is a farce. One type of folk benefit from the dispute - Drug barrons and weapon dealers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Sep 05 - 04:46 AM See BBC NI, rioting again last night, 10 police injured, rioting loyalists stop a bus and rob elderly people travelling to church, two year old baby has skull fractured when brick smashes window of a passing car. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Leadfingers Date: 13 Sep 05 - 05:01 AM Ita all part of the fun isnt it ?? Oh and by the way , 100 !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Sep 05 - 07:10 AM So right, do you remember that scene in, O, Brother where art thou, when the hooded Klan leader was addressing the assembled klansmen thus, "this is not part of our culture, we don`t want people telling us we come from monkeys, oh, no, brothers, we gonna hang us a negra", well words to that effect, substitute the leader of the Klan for an Orang Grand Master [Wizard]. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Sep 05 - 07:22 AM Dianavan, You wrote "the Loyalists will have to be stripped of their Irish citizenship and be sent back to England. " They are not from England or anywhere else but Ireland. They have been there longer than Europeans in America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 13 Sep 05 - 07:30 AM Dianavan were you taken over by aliens when you wrote that post? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Sep 05 - 07:39 AM A witness, Rev Andrew Stewart, Presbyterian Minister of Donaghadee, writing at the time on the plantation of Ulster, stated,. "The people supplanted in Ulster, strangers from England and Scotland, were generally the scum of both nations, who for debt and breaking and fleeing from justice, sought asylum among the fair fields of Ulster". Now going by what we have witnessed over the years ,old Andrew was a fair judge. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Wolfgang Date: 13 Sep 05 - 08:06 AM What an old-fashioned idea of the role of heredity you seem to have implicitely, Ard Mhacha. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Wolfgang Date: 13 Sep 05 - 08:19 AM I am beginning to think that when Ireland becomes whole, the Loyalists will have to be stripped of their Irish citizenship and be sent back to England. (Dianavan) The majority of people coming over to Northern Ireland during the 'plantations' came from Scotland. Do you mean sending them to England instead of Scotland as an extra punishment they deserve or have you used 'England', pars pro toto, meaning the big island east of Ireland. Wolfgang (grin) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:05 AM Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Sep 05 - 07:10 AM So right, do you remember that scene in, O, Brother where art thou, when the hooded Klan leader was addressing the assembled klansmen thus, "this is not part of our culture, we don`t want people telling us we come from monkeys, oh, no, brothers, we gonna hang us a negra", well words to that effect, substitute the leader of the Klan for an Orang Grand Master [Wizard]. Jesus, what on earth are you on about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:33 AM Macha, it is useful to remember that the same thing was said about those transported to Australia, New Zealand, and parts of North America. The difference is that they were Irish. Historically the folks moved to Ireland as part of the plantation laws were just peons and considered as a resource for the wealthy. That is what makes this all so foolish. This is no more about Catholic/Protestant or Loyalist-Unionist/Republican than the man in the moon. It was the workers of the North starting to realize that they had more in common with other workers than they did with the British landlords/industrialists. In the grand fashion of capitalists, the monied interests couldn't have this. They played the "Orange" card, and used special rights for the Orange and discriminatory laws for the Green as fertilizer to insure a bountiful harvest. Several centuries later we are still seeing the effect of this. The Loyalist/Unionists should never be expelled. It is a silly idea. They are as Irish as the descendants of the Vikings, Normans, or any other of the groups that make up the fabric of the land. They need to be brought to the realization that their future lies in a united Ireland with opportunity for all. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 13 Sep 05 - 09:55 AM Have to agree with the above post, the Klan and Orange ARE very alike. Read up on them if in doubt. Both with Anglo Saxon Protestant viewpoints and torture of anyone outside of their circle. Also both depend on HOODS to cover their dirty work ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Sep 05 - 12:33 PM Of course the Klan and the Orange Order are two of a kind, only a fool cannot see the comparsion, the biblical nonsense that both organisation blast out, they are one and the same. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Sep 05 - 12:57 PM Paisley received his"starched collar" from the Bob Jones University. in the good old southern states, when imprisoned in 1966 for unlawful assembly,he spat forth this biblical crap, "When the fuse of true prayer is set alight with the fire of the holy ghost, and thus the gospel dynamite is exploded" Last week this old demagouge showing he hadn`t mellowed with the years, declared to his followers that because of the banning of the 100 yards through a nationalist district declared, "this could be the spark that kindles a fire there will be no putting out", and his hooded followers acted accordingly. KKK or what. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Wolfgang Date: 13 Sep 05 - 01:20 PM He demagouges eyes out. Most probably only a typo, but it fits that man well. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,DivisSweeney Date: 13 Sep 05 - 02:32 PM Ard mhacha you have hit the nail on the head here. Everyone who took an interest in Irish politics drew the parallel years ago. The North was the Alabama of Europe and any fool who can't see it needs to get a grip. They went out last weekend to stamp their authority over nationalists.One old tart summed it up on national television news last night by saying that we cannot respect a policeforce which isn't loyal to the unionist people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 13 Sep 05 - 04:54 PM well fuck they couldn't have their parade where they wanted it. You peole have no empathy. I'd burn cities and buses n shit if I couldn't have my parade where I wanted it either. It's not like they don't have their priorities straight. What do you want them to do? Work and pay mortgages and raise their children and stuff? blehhh |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Sep 05 - 07:35 PM I think its a bit silly asking the Irish to say nice things about us. Like Big Mick says after all the shit that's gone down over the last 600 or so years - well its a bit like going to Tel Aviv and asking folks to say something nice about the SS........great uniforms, you always knew where you were with them, etc Fairport convention, mustard, you always know where you are with mustard,...ho hum what would be really good was if the two sets of Irishmen could say nice things about each other. If the loyalists could say about the Nationalists and vice versa, well the other guy has a point about somethings and I'm sure we can reach a compromise. To be fair I suppose this is exactly what happens in town councils all over Ireland, but you'd never guess it from the tone of the exchanges on this site. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 14 Sep 05 - 12:31 AM You folk have cooley foresaken the ardor of the Fall. Spring is the season when young blood boils for spoils. Sift some ashes over the embers and let them stand ready to spark when the wind winds from the south.
For a refreshing spirit consult:
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=12267#163466
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: dianavan Date: 14 Sep 05 - 01:09 AM ", declared to his followers that because of the banning of the 100 yards through a nationalist district declared, "this could be the spark that kindles a fire there will be no putting out", and his hooded followers acted accordingly" In Canada it might be considered a hate crime or inciting a riot. If the Mullahs of London express similar, radical fundamentalist views and are silenced, why is it O.K. for Paisley to incite hatred? ...and you're right about Irish being Irish. Its never as simple as sending people back 'where they came from'. How do you solve a problem like Paisley and his Loyalists? Convict them of hate crimes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 14 Sep 05 - 05:45 AM Yes I agree, but the British government pussy foot around the big bastard. He appears on television and calls for people to come out onto the streets and when it turns out as it did last weekend he walks away. Did this for 30 plus years.Well known fact that he sits in at meetings of the Loyalist paramilitary council of Ulster. They will never accept catholics in government. When the Good Friday agreement was signed he appeared on television and said he would not take any part in it. He appeared a week before the first sitting and said we would now take his seat. He would be in to wreck the assembly. Why did the government allow a party in who was hell bent on wrecking the agreement 81% wanted to work ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Wolfgang Date: 14 Sep 05 - 04:02 PM Why the UVF believes violence pays Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,DivisSweeney Date: 14 Sep 05 - 05:27 PM You had to see the Orange Order on television today saying that they condone the weekend street riots. After saying they condone it 10 times, a reporter had to point out, Do you not mean you condemn it ? Oh yes thats what I meant to say was their reply. Total fools one and all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: akenaton Date: 14 Sep 05 - 07:23 PM They may be morons Divis,but in rural West of Scotland they a making an alarming comeback. Scotland has always been full of sectarianism...the main reason we don't have independence. I notice all the small towns a villages now seem to have a branch of the Orange Lodge. Not so long ago we used to laugh at their ridicuous posturing, but now their members are infiltrating local govt and an air of menace prevails. I have no religion or axe to grind, but these fools are a reminder of the fascist era...Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 14 Sep 05 - 11:29 PM Gargoyle's reference to the Armalite thread:
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Boab Date: 15 Sep 05 - 12:31 AM Work for Crawford Howard and his "Peace Powder"-----! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Cloger Date: 15 Sep 05 - 07:26 PM "In a station in a city a Brittish soildier stood talking to the people there if the people would some turned in hatred and others turned in pain and the lonely brittish soildier wished that he was back home again" (Harvey Andrews 1975?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 15 Sep 05 - 07:37 PM "what would be really good was if the two sets of Irishmen could say nice things about each other." There would be no problem if one set of 'Irishmen' called themselves that. You do, and probably most of the population of England does as well, weelittledrummer Could somebody please tell the Loyalists that they are Irish. Please? Nice one Cloger, love the soildier spelling. Sums it all up, don't you think? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 15 Sep 05 - 07:39 PM ... sorry... that was me (forgot the 'From' line) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Sep 05 - 09:48 PM Okay lets recap Every Republican has the soul of a poet and the heart of a rebel. Every Unionist is an educationally subnormal thug. The English are all chinless wonders (apart from the 1968 line up of Fairport Covention) Irish women are sexy and tough and Coleman's Mustard gets the thumbs up - is that tube, the powder or the bottle? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Divis Sweeney Date: 15 Sep 05 - 10:07 PM bottle E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill Date: 15 Sep 05 - 11:21 PM ... The only English chinless wonders I know of are Bruce Forsyth and Geoff Hurst... ... The late Quentin Hogg, perhaps... Yawwwnnnn 11.22 already! Nearly time for me to clock off... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,The Plasterer Date: 06 Oct 05 - 04:02 PM Heard today total bill for recent Belfast riots is 7.3 million. Orange Order said PSNI should foot the bill as they started it. Do these guys admit anything ? Reported in the Examiner. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Teribus Date: 07 Oct 05 - 11:47 PM There's one thing that cannot be denied LWD has got awicked sense of humour - when exactlty did you leave the DET? |
