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BS: Belfast Riots
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:44 AM I couldn't agree more, Wolfgang. Did write to my MP when a suggestion came up in MC... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Wolfgang Date: 12 Sep 05 - 07:40 AM Disarm the loyalists too (Guardian) Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:50 AM Mick try and open both eyes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:36 AM Shift blame, Mick? I don't think so and think there are far more wrongs on the loyalist (british government even if you like) side. I agree that injustices can bring out the worst in people and situations can create terrorism - I feel that way over our governments stances over Iraq, etc. But there in lies a question: Let's say the muslim case is strong... at what point would you justify the bombing of innocent people in London to uphold the cause? The IRA in my mind have done that and even if you chose to paint people who will do that whiter than white, I'm afraid I don't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:32 AM The loyalist community have a right to be angry. What has been handed to them on a plate for remaining loyal to our government ? Maybe they are seeing who it's done. And they were kids rioting, not grown men. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:29 AM In over 25 years of social activism, it has been my experience that those that are descriminated against would gladly stop defining their loyalty by religious allegiances or color or whatever. They form these allegiances out of a need for self protection. It is typical of the discriminator, when public opinion is going against them, to say something on the order of "OK, time to stop defining ourselves this way. Let's all just get along". Sounds good, doesn't work. When you have systematically held folks down, in this case for centuries, then you must take pro active steps to correct the inequities in the system, as well as in folks attitudes. A good start would be to quit alibi'ing the actions of the various Loyalist groups that continue to attempt to shoot down all peace attempts. A second good step would be full prosecution of the people who do these horrendous things to Catholic kids and churches, never mind those that run folks out of their homes. Why do you keep trying to justify and shift blame? Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:21 AM Exactly, and until the people living there can stop defining their locality by religious allegiances nothing will change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:18 AM You don't even know what 'Loyalism' means, for God's sake By loyalist, I simply meant those whose natural allegience would be to the Brittish government. Call them protestants if you prefer, or suggest another name for people who live on one side? I'm afraid when it comes to people, and whatever you care to call it lets say protestants and catholics, I don't see things in black and white that one side is all evil and the other side all whiter than white. That has never been my experience with any group of people (even folkies!) I've ever known in any aspect of my life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:12 AM Other cities do. They are called "black areas", ghettoes, etc. Different issue, same shit. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Stu Date: 12 Sep 05 - 06:08 AM "What other city in the civilised world has 'catholic areas?'. And the beat goes on . . ." What is that supposed to mean? It also has Loyalist areas doesn't it? Or perhaps this was a stab at irony. Tiocfaidh - define 'Loyalism' for people who don't live in the North then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:33 AM What other city in the civilised world has 'catholic areas?'. And the beat goes on.............. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha Date: 12 Sep 05 - 05:23 AM I love to keep saying it, BUT I TOLD YOU SO. Have a look at the photos and see the "young kids" rioting balding greyheads bedecked in orange sashes, and all because they cannot parade through Catholic areas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Paul Burke Date: 12 Sep 05 - 04:53 AM What happened to the Drumcree threads? And what happened at Drumcree this year? Though I must say that had it happened on the Falls rather than Shankill Gerry Adams would probably have been arrested by now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Tiocfaidh Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:38 PM "Four times as many people have been murdered in London in the same period, the same number in Manchester as in the North in the same period" ... as it was during all of the 'Troubles', Guest. Would that your media was as even-handed... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Tiocfaidh Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:36 PM "It does seem to me that there is a loyalist element (and I don't mean all loylists) that has no interest in peace. " Jesus, Jon, you're ill-informed! What a f***ing pillock! You don't even know what 'Loyalism' means, for God's sake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Tiocfaidh Date: 11 Sep 05 - 11:32 PM ... and all they wanted to talk about was something else ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 10:46 PM Hey--every other time the Orange Order and Protestant paramilitaries have thrown these kinds of temper tantrums, it has worked like a charm, and the government caves to their demands. Will this time prove any different? I doubt it. Already, there are politicians both sides the border lining up to take a shot a Sinn Fein and the IRA, because the IRA hasn't begun to disarm yet. And of course, what isn't being discussed is, this is what those lovely Protestant paramilitaries and the Orange Order do when they aren't allowed to storm their way into Catholic neighborhoods. Also what isn't being discussed is the widespread targeting of victims in Catholic areas all summer long, including targeting and running people out of their homes (a time honored tradition among the Protestant paras), a killing spree as the paras fight for dominance, and general building of tensions over Protestants not being allowed their "cultural tradition" of political dominance over and intimidation of the Catholic nationalist community. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Peace Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:41 PM http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2005/0911/ Hope you don't mind, Garg. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 11 Sep 05 - 08:39 PM Irish Timesarticle:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2005/0911/
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:44 PM Young boys have always been used as pawns by their respective communities in the Troubles, but Guest 1:12 & 4:02 is grossly exaggerating their involvement in the riots, in a pathetic attempt to gloss over the seriousness of the rioting and what it means to the security of the people and the peace process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Mick Date: 11 Sep 05 - 05:34 PM It is a damn shame to raise children to hate at such a young age. The Loyalists have no corner on this, but it does show the problem with attaining for the people of the North of Ireland a lasting peace. What does one expect when a segment of society tolerates and encourages the desecration of churches, terrorizing of schoolgirls and balloons full of urine thrown at children. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 04:02 PM Loyalists shot dead the first and last policeman of the conflict so why not the last public disorder act ! Look at the age of those arrested, kids. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 02:40 PM That is the broken Ian Paisley record talking. When riots break out during loyalist parades, DUP and the OO blame the Parades Commission, or any other convenient scapegoat. I wouldn't say this is anything to be ignored by a long shot. This is the most violent rioting to come out of the loyalist community in a very long time, and this sort of an orchestrated attack on the police and army is significant. To suggest otherwise is just irresponsible and dangerous. This isn't a case of lads being lads. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,Jon Date: 11 Sep 05 - 02:33 PM BBC article here It does seem to me that there is a loyalist element (and I don't mean all loylists) that has no interest in peace. Ian Paisley (not surprisingly) is quoted as saying "The Parades Commission are to blame for the mess that has been created," |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 01:12 PM Dont waste time posting, I saw these young chaps on television news, ages 5 to 13. Its not loyalists and another thing it was said on this site about loyalists murdering people in Northern Ireland and that the Troubles appear not to be over. Four times as many people have been murdered in London in the same period, the same number in Manchester as in the North in the same period. So drop the post and ignore the thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: dianavan Date: 11 Sep 05 - 01:03 PM From the above link: "At a news conference in Belfast on Sunday, Sir Hugh said he saw members of the Orange Order attacking PSNI officers." Well, at least now, the police know who their enemies are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST,bob Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:56 PM Surely all those jolly good fellows from the disbanded IRA could form a police protection corps as they are so concerned for their safety. Laughed? I nearly flashed my fags. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Sorcha Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:41 PM Link since inflammatory Guest couldn't be arsed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: John MacKenzie Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:27 PM Would you for goodness sake stop throwing light on the subject, that's the last thing they want. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast Riots From: Big Al Whittle Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:09 PM these would be the policemen that you couldn't possibly approve of because they were so obviously lackeys of the prods and Brits yeh you're right we don't understand...! |
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Subject: BS: Belfast Riots From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 05 - 12:01 PM Turn in your weapons and just see what the prods will to you. More than 30 police officers were injured in Northern Ireland's worst rioting in years and the intent was to kill. |
