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BS: Any advice on running a B&B?
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Subject: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Oct 05 - 06:59 PM Knowing the Mudcat there will be plenty:-) Seriously though. It has long been Mrs G's idea to run a B&B in the Yorkshire Dales. Something has come up - It will cost megabucks to buy but looks like it may pay for itself. I know about business plans etc and think we just may be able to buy it using a judicious combination of private and business mortgages. The first question is with 4 ensuite letting rooms (sometimes 5) at between £90 and £120 a night (Which they are currently getting) would it be realistic to expect the 60% occupancy we would realisticaly need? I would stay operating as a computer consultant btw - Not enough pay to buy the place but enough to feed and clothe us:-) It is certainly the type of place we would stay at. We would not like to run an evening meal service but it is close enough (10 minutes walk) from loads of good places to get evening meals. It is prime location, close to enough tourist attractions and to road links but far enough away to be a peaceful haven! The couple who currently run it are retiring. Ideas please? Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Divis Sweeney Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:02 PM Buy it Dave!!! With some well thought out marketing, you'd be able to hit your 60% easily! Plus, I will definitely have to come over and stay when visiting the cousins! Good luck and hope it all works out well... E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: KathWestra Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:31 PM The three couples and one single I've known who've run B&Bs here in the U.S. have all had cautionary tales about the extent to which ownership of such an establishment consumes them. There is apparently a fairly high "burnout" rate among B&B proprietors, mostly because of the need to be "on" at all hours, 24/7. It's not an option to hide out if you need some mental space, and the need to keep those occupancy numbers up makes vacations a rarity if they happen at all. My second-hand advice, based on my friends' reports, would be to go into this with your eyes wide open not just about the financial ramifications, but also on whether you're prepared to make your life revolve around your guests' needs every day of the year. Good luck, Dave, whatever you decide! If you buy it, I may come visit someday. I surely prefer the B&B experience to that of staying in a chain hotel/motel affair. Best, Kathy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: tarheel Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:08 PM I'VE ALWAYS LOVED EATRING BREAKFAST IN BED!!!!hahahahahaha! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: open mike Date: 09 Oct 05 - 10:21 PM i have a friend who owns a B&B Inn, and she supplements by having some food and drink for sale...she is in a place where there are not other stores-0-grocery or otherwise-0-nearby so she has lots of patrons. Not sure if that would work in an area with multiple other options near by. Would you have a person or persons who can run the place if you need to get away? Do you have a patio or living room area where you could host folk concerts? We have held a "house concert" at a B&B and a good time was had by all (not sure if insurance and Entertainment permits would be prohibitive). Also you might consider offering up your place as a place for touring musicians to stay for promotional mention at their performances if they play elsewhere... perhaps there is a consortium of B&B's or a chamber of commerce in the area that could refer guests to you. A charming name and an attractive web site fand you are good to go...it probably already has a name and a reputation...it won't be like starting from "scratch". Perhaps you could allign with such an organization as Hostel and become part of a network. It could become a folk Mecca! good luck and keep us posted whatever you decide~ see: www.theinnkeeper.com www.bedandbreakfast.com www.bbonline.com/ www.ibbp.com/ www.visitus.co.uk/ www.bedandbreakfastnationwide.com/ (also UK) www.yha.org.uk/ in Sweden there is a network of Vandrerhem (wanderer's homes) and here is a quote from a traveller's article: "The best experience we ever had was 3 years ago staying in different youth hostels (vandrerhem). It was simple but clean, nice, cheap, friendly. The food (breakfast) was varying in choice but always very good." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Oct 05 - 10:37 PM Check regs-- you may be in for some VERY expensive renovations to meet codes for commercial use. Example-- in one US town I know of, it must be one private bath per sleeping room. Fire exits, etc., etc. Board of Health kitchen inspections.... stay in a few B&B's and ask the owners if it all runs by itself and pays for itself! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:12 AM I've traced this thread and will try to get back when I'm able to take a little time. It's an interesting proposition, but a lot of work. More later. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:09 AM Thansk to all that have answered so far. I will clarify a couple of points. Regs are not an issue - This is an up and running B&B with all current requirements fulfilled. It actualy has 5 en-suite letting rooms but due to our requirements we can only do 4 all the time and occasionaly the 5th. We are talking UK so some of the American links, while very interesting and mainly useful, are not entirely relevant. Again, being in the UK, the concept of house concerts is non-existant and the ammount of time it would take would, I'm afraid, exclude it from the equation. I do know about running concerts btw - I help run a weekly club and annual festival. Interstingly enough the house does have a licence for alcohol but I would envisage that as an added bonus to guests rather than a big money spinner. It is also licensed for weddings so if anyone wanted a quiet wedding it could be done there:-) Thanks again and keep 'em coming! DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: John MacKenzie Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:35 AM I assume the sacrifice of 20% of your income for limited periods involves its use by a family member, like a student home for the vacs or some suchlike. If their visits impinge on your peak occupation periods you are looking at possible income shortfall problems. Do you have space for a suitable caravan your occasional visitor could use? If it is a good established B&B you will have regular repeat business so will be able to predict some cash flow, if however it relies to a large extent on passing trade, you will find as I did when I did B&B for a bit, some nights you pray for a knock on the door, while others your sleep can be disturbed at midnight by people looking for a bed. If it is not already on the internet get it on there, offer discounts for early bookings with appropriate non refundable deposits, and look for a unique selling point, you're into folk music use that to sell it to like minded people. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: sian, west wales Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:11 AM I only know the Welsh tourism set-up, but I imagine that there are English equivalents so ... get in touch with both the Tourist Board AND the regional tourism company (or association) which is more locally focussed than the Tourist Board. It also plugs you into to local similar businesses. In the world of B&B, operators here work an informal network of passing customers on to other establishments if they get booked up. Also, you can club together when group promotions need to be undertaken - the best example of this was the mop-up operation after Foot and Mouth a few years ago. Check to see if there's a regional B&B Tourist transport initiative which carries walkers' luggage to the next destination so they can walk without packs. Both the TB and Regional Tourism Company should be able to provide figures on what your expectations should be re: occupancy rates. (You know of www.staruk.org.uk?) I'm assuming the sellers have also provided figures but these should be checked against industry figures. You should also try to find out from the current owners what the break-down is between tourists and commercial travellers. The latter tend to be forgotten when doing up business plans but they are, in fact, a large, dependable section of the market, and don't tend to be seasonal. For the tourist, think about investing in a large commercial dryer. There was some work done on climate change and tourism some years back which reported that tourists don't mind getting wet as long as they can get their stuff - including boots - dry by next morning. I would have thought that this was relevant in your area. Also think about bicycle lock-ups. In Wales, the Tourist Board are pushing their "Sense of Place" toolkit - a collection of leaflets which guide tourism operators through ways to give their establishments the maximum local flavour and tie in with the local community. They also do one specifically for local food but I don't think that one is quite so good. The idea is sound, though. The visitor should remember your place as something unique and firmly rooted in the 'Yorkshire Holiday Experience'. (And, on the food front, decent local bacon and sausages PLEASE!) siân |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Folkiedave Date: 10 Oct 05 - 06:02 AM The winner of the samll guest house award recently was a similar place in Knaresborough with similar prices. They seemed to indicate it had taken two years to get fully off the ground and I think they might also do evening meals. Might bwe worth checking out. Loads of info here: http://www.yorkshiretouristboard.net/home.shtm Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:00 AM It does have a website - Should have posted it earlier, sorry! Rookhurst DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: John MacKenzie Date: 10 Oct 05 - 11:57 AM It's orgasmic Dave, I love it already. Go for it, but I would still think about the possible impact of reducing available accomodation, if you can find a way round it. [Looks like there's plenty space for a fair sized caravan, or even my motorhome parked up the side ☺] Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Sorcha Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:05 PM Will there be winter traffic or mostly spring/summer/fall? Can you make other plans for winter if you dont' have guests then? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Epona Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:05 PM Dave, The place is beautiful. E |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 05 - 12:12 PM It's all year as far as I can see - Certainly very popular at Christmas and New Year although we would like to keep Christmas for the family. With it being non-child friendly it can apparantly be quieter during the school holidays but I am sure there are ways round that. There is an offer on the table for it apparantly but the people making it are in the same position as us and ned to sell their property. I have asked for an inventory of what would be left there and for how much as well as a copy of the bookings for the last few years. Cheers and keep the advice rolling:-) DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: GUEST Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:03 PM Looks gorgeous. I can see the river outside, but not all kids throw themselves into running water? That bit of the website would put a lot of people off, and attract a lot of maybe older folk. Swings and roundabouts I suspose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Oct 05 - 02:49 PM The river isn't realy that close - 5 minutes walk or so. I think we would seriously reconsider the no children policy - I think it is good for a Bed, Breakfast and Evening meal place where you may not want youngsters disturbing the horses doofers, canopies and a pair of teefs but seeing as we would not be doing all that it could be a bit kid friendlier. Trouble is with all those antiques about it could be asking for trouble as well:-( Ah well - no need to cross that bridge yet. We've not even got our coats on yet... Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Mr Red Date: 10 Oct 05 - 03:04 PM Not sure as many folkies would run to that rate - but if you had a good session or festival in the area...... You have to include all the angles - a free session can be enjoyed by anyone. But walkers ramble in most weathers - some of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: John MacKenzie Date: 10 Oct 05 - 03:21 PM The rates are the reasons why even if you drop the child bar you will still not get many. Very few couples with kids can afford to B&B these days, apart from the fact that not many couples with kids even holiday in the UK! Up here in the highlands where everybody and his next door neighbour do B&B they are all feeling the pinch The B&Bs are half empty and the roads are full of motor homes. Add up what it would cost a couple with one or even two kids to stay in that B&B you fancy for a week, and then look at what they could get in Spain Portugal or Turkey for that money. I'm not saying the rates are OTT they're par for the course, it's just a matter of economics. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Blowzabella Date: 10 Oct 05 - 03:51 PM Your clientele looks to me as if it will come from DINKs (double income, no kids) or 'Empty nesters' - people with money whose kids have left home. Mostly affluent and discerning. North Yorkshire attracts a lot of them, and you've got to know how to catch them. Motor homes parked in the drive, I'm afraid, won't. You've got to target your market and, with a market sector like this, ensure that everything, from the first point of contact to the last, is top notch - absolutely. These people won't be looking for dryer rooms or places to park their bikes. They will also be likely to demand top notch service in all respects - they will be paying hotel rates and will expect service to match. It looks to me like it could be a money spinner, for the right people. These people, as has been mentioned above, will need to be prepared to either be on hand themselves, constantly, or have highly trusted deputies, whom they can leave in control for SHORT periods. Premium local food, good wines etc are the bywords - what Sian said about 'sense of place' - totally agree. They won't be easy customers but they'll be repeat visitors if they like it. And they will tell their friends. (It is close to the Hardraw Gathering, for those affluent, discerning folkies, by the way!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: DougR Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:02 PM I can't offer any advice because I have no experience running a B&B. My wife and I have stayed in several in Ireland, though, and I would second what Blowzabella said. In this price range customers will expect the best in service, and food. It looks exactly like the kind of place we would like to stay in. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: open mike Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:49 PM wow it looks like a castle! how is it heated? winters could be an expensive proposotion to keep that whole space warm... and no kids and no dogs? sounds dreary.. is there a rule about disabled access accomodation? ramps, etc? it sounds as if it is more than a Bed and Breakfast..it is a dinner place too. who cooks? will the restaruant work be done by those who are doing it now? the recipes and preparation may be specific to the place and part of the way the expectations that guests have of the place...will you need to keep the same menu and learn how to prepare those dishes? it seems as if the clientw may need to reserve ahead of time if you need to plan menus, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: GUEST Date: 11 Oct 05 - 05:23 AM Last week we stayed in a very nice hotel run by people fairly new to the business. They had one room only (out of ? 20) in which dogs were allowed. We were in 1 of only 3 occupied rooms. Under the dog room The last night of our stay it was occupied by a very active dog. Up until midnight it amusing to try to guess the breed of the dog by it rate of movement & the pitch of it's howling. From 4.30 we were kept awake by the thump of it's tail on the floor. Not amusing Turns out the dog owners were relatives of the hoteliers. I hope they coughed the full fee, cos that hotel has lost any return business from us. Please be careful of family/friend expecting free holidays for life - especially if they annoy your paying guests. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: John MacKenzie Date: 11 Oct 05 - 08:36 AM The motor home I mentionjed was mine, and it was a joke, just to clarify the matter! G.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Blowzabella Date: 11 Oct 05 - 08:59 AM Sorry John - no offense meant - I'm sure it's a lovely motor home (I'd love one but can't afford one and wouldn't have anywhere to park it if I had one!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: GUEST Date: 11 Oct 05 - 03:59 PM How close to the nearest stadium? Shuttle from public transportation? Why are the owners selling? Have you looked over their books and are they legit? Will you be accepted by the locals? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: billybob Date: 11 Oct 05 - 06:05 PM Go for luxury, little touches, welcome basket, belgium chocs, wine, luxury products in bathroom, cosy bath robes.Romantic breaks, honeymoons, anniversaries. Ask a local beauty salon for an in house treament programme. We have a beauty salon and spa and have an arrangement with a wonderful country house and cottages, clients love to be pamperd.Look at www.parkhall.info and see what I mean. spend time on drapes etc dress the rooms. It looks great , you could develop it to much more than a bed and breakfast, get a web page and get our cousins from across the pond to stay. good luck |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 12 Oct 05 - 04:17 PM Just waiting for the books and inventory from the estate agents - If they still look good I think we may go for this. If not - what the heck. We'll try again. It's a good ride anyway:-) Just found a real interesting one - Bigger and cheaper but not B&B at the moment. Look at Sandersons site. Choose the Barnard castle office and min price £400,000. The first house is Barrenthwaite Hall. Check it out - it's fabulous. For fun then go to google.co.uk and check out Barrenthwaite Hall to see what the last owner was up to. It's a bit of an eye opener:-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: open mike Date: 12 Oct 05 - 11:04 PM Teesside Crown Court was told that Middleton ran a brothel in premises called The Pleasure Zone in Northgate, Darlington, where a dozen prostitutes worked shifts and the customers included up to 40 soldiers a night from Catterick Camp. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 12 Oct 05 - 11:45 PM It appears that BillyBob -is a flamer
Disregard his advice....and go with the Rudibentry necessities.
Sincerely,
Unless, of course you are a Lord or Lady or a Landed Gentry as bob-on billy appears to be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Oct 05 - 03:54 AM No Lord or Lady, Garg, but it would be nice wouldn't it. Lord Gnome of Swinton:-) I think Billy Bob is on to something though - at £100-£120 per room per night I think it would be nice to have those touches - But that is one of the choices facing us! Do we go for that 'top end' market or de we go for the basics as you suggest. Both have their own niche. I think Rookhurst would suit the former but there are plenty at a lower cost would suit the latter as well. Eeeeh. Decisons, decisions... Thanks all. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: GUEST Date: 13 Oct 05 - 04:29 AM For the top price dave you are going to get a lot of people who could be pains in the proverbial. The type who have paid their money and want to be 'served.' I think I'd rather the kids and dogs crowd. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Paul Burke Date: 13 Oct 05 - 06:03 AM One thing I'd be careful about is to check that the current takings are kosher. A friend bought a small farm in south Wales, with B&B, a craft shop, and a "pet's corner" (donkeys and the like). It turned out that the takings had been grossly exaggerated, that B&B occupancy rates were overstated, that the shop's stock was mostly stuff that had been on sale-or-return for half a decade, the passing trade was non- existent, and that many of the animals belonged to other people. They were naive; but "don't be naive" isn't very helpful advice. Are they REALLY getting over £100 a night per room? A quick search brought up hotels with similar rates, but look at the bhoy:posh? And don't forget that the REAL season is very limited. A repeat of something like foot-and-mouth could wipe you out totally. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: dianavan Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:35 PM Looks like alot of work to me. Not only do have the regular maintenance and upkeep of a house, you have to make other people's beds everyday. You have alot of laundry, too. Sounds as if homemade food is part of the package. Are you ready to cook for a crowd everyday? In addition, that a pretty big place to keep clean. Sorry, don't mean to rain on your parade but just pointing out the reality. Have you ever had to be 'on' 24/7? Its not easy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Oct 05 - 05:44 PM Yep - thanks again guys - I realy do welcome all the comments and it is no rain on the parade at all. We do need to get any accounts and bookings verified. We do know that the advertised prices are what are charged - but could they be subject to negotiation? I for one am all for having kids there and not charging as much - It makes sense to have 2 adults and 2 kids in the room for £120 and it makes it more fun:-) Trouble is finding a place we can do that with:-( The food would definitley be breakfast only - we have no intention at all of doing anything else! Very good point about the foot and mouth. We have also seen a place in Whitby that looks very interesting - But much as we love Whitby to Holiday in we are not sure about living there. Sets me off thinking about somewhere like Silverdale or Grange though? Would they be as affected by countryside problems? Any other ideas? Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: billybob Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:47 AM Hmmmm not a lord or lady, and most definatly not landed gentree, just a hard working beauty therapist! The country house we work in was a farm house, they converted stables into cottages for self catering luxury breaks, and made the bedrooms in the house super luxury as I described before.After 2 years really hard work they are fully booked most of the year.they only do breakfasts no evening meals. The usual clients are tourists from the USA, business people escaping from London and young couples celebrating anniversaries , no airs or graces there!.They get a lot of repeat business and are rated 5 stars with the tourist board.We send staff there from our day spa to pamper the guests , much nicer than a health farm. They charge a lot more than £120 a night(per room) good luck |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:01 AM A few months, plus a year ago, we were traveling through the "Catswoulds" (heaven forbid, without reservations.)
Inn after inn was full. Inquiring at the desk of the largest establishment, we asked could they "possibly find us lodging - anywhere?" We were told by the rather snooty desk-clerk, the closest you will find will be in the "big cities like Stratford."
Heading back towards Avon, we passed a B&B, no cars in the lot. A quick "U" and we became their guests for the night.
Ironically, my fellow travelers purchased an abandoned inn up the road - the type were the hyway-man came riding, riding, riding up to the.....
Sincerely,
From my experience, the best bargains are found, outside the limits of "established 'good' neighborhoods.
You need to FIRST establish your market "niche" and then price/cater/supply to the demand. Knock back the "asking price" by 30% and then settle at a reduced 20%....these folkies are probably desperate to sell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:04 AM Mr. Gnome,
Reading over your previous MudCat postings threads - you do not appear to have the intellect or personality to successfuly run a B&B.
Keep your evening job pulling tap... but don't invest.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:51 AM WayHey!!! Thanks Garg! To be flamed by a master is rare delight:-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: billybob Date: 15 Oct 05 - 07:46 PM Sorry I thought this was a serious question! I just got lost!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Oct 05 - 05:01 AM It is serious BB! No need to get lost at Gargoyles tangenital reasoning:-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any advice on running a B&B? From: billybob Date: 17 Oct 05 - 06:23 AM OK DtG I had to drop off two of our staff to a B&B in Leatherhead yesterday, as they are on a three day course.The best you can say about it was at least it was clean, grim otherwise, it was really difficalt to find any accomadation within walking distance as they do not drive.So in the right location I am sure you will do well what ever the niche in the market you go for good luck |
