BS: When will time end?

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 02:35 PM

The most recent observations have shows that not only is our universe expanding, but it is accelerating.... and unless we have a few figures REALLY wrong, there isn't NEAR enough matter in the universe to stop the process.... so there won't be any "Big Crunch" (no one has thought there would be for some time now) but there might be a "Big Rip"

Or the universe might end with Cold Death....    Unless it's around long enough that Heat Death gets it first....

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: jeffp
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 02:24 PM

Little Hawk, in December you could be a Christmas prescient.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Amos
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 02:17 PM

Duration, time, same same...in that they are both anchored to the single universal percept of persistence. Time looks like relative motion. But relative motion in turn hinges on the deep conviction of persistence of objects, each (at any scale) continuing to "be" (whatever that means for an object!) what it "was".

This is a very convenient construct, just like a freeway is a convenient construct.

That doesn't make it "true", just "real".

Liebenscheiss

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 02:05 PM

I knew someone was going to say that. I'm prescient! I should go professional and charge big bucks.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: jeffp
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 09:00 AM

When Roger finally stops bitching about Joe and the Clones, time will stop, the oceans will overflow and Hell will freeze over.

Oz has spoken!

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:53 AM

Alternatively,once the expansion of the Universe reaches the point where its total energy is stretched to the point of maximum entropy there ought to be a decrease in the speed of light.
The energy released by this should create something approximating to another Big Bang.
This may result in the creation of a new Universe.
Should that be the case then the end of this time will mark the beginning of next time.
This may in fact already have happened.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:43 AM

As I noted earlier, there's "time" and there's "duration." "Time" is what we use to measure "duration." "Duration" is simply the existence of something from its creation to its non-existence. "Time" is a creation of humans; "duration" could be considered unmeasured "time".

If this is difficult, consider a tree: until humans come along and measure it, it simply is.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: gnu
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:42 AM

At full time, unless stoppage time is added on. Ask the referee.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:35 AM

Glad I retire before that BB! Mind you, as a HP-UX consultant I guess I could make a lot of money ensuring all my clients are 2038 compliant;-)

I doubt if anything pre-dates currency, PF. After all, how would the oldest profession work without it:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:31 AM

Gnomic Dave, did you used to measure your willy so you could sell it? Possibly not.

Why measure?

Counting the kids, to make sure none have got lost.
Counting the days till we can expect the geese to come back- no point hunting them till then.
Measuring the time it took you to travel to the cave by the waterhole up the mountain last time the spring dried up- we have to set off in the morning, or we'll be caught out in the open at night.
Counting the number of people in that crowd who've just moved in up the river- should we go and say hello, hide till they move on, or try to frighten them off?
Estimating the speed of the sabre toothed axolotl over there- can it catch me, or do I need to climb a tree?

But in one way you're right. Measuring time down to minutes and seconds is purely Protestant and a result of the need for self- discipline.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:44 AM

In January of 2038....



that is when the UNIX time value overflows...

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:38 AM

Measurement seems to predate currency.
Possibly originated in agriculture as a matter of survival.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:32 AM

So whereas time itself is a physical construct the measurement thereof is down to humans? Am I right? Surely the same can be applied to many things? I doubt very much that a cow is aware of how much milk it has issues in gallons. Does a horse measure how many furlongs it has run? If this is the case then surely it is measurement that is a human construct rather than the things that we are measuring.

Following that reasoning I am led to ask why we do measure things. The only answer I can come up with is so we can sell them! If so then the answer to the question about time ending becomes a socio-economic issue rather than scientific problem and as such should be considered by politicians.

Can we trust Messers Bush and Blair to give us the correct policy?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 06:33 AM

Our normal perception of time is expressed in terminology relative to
the perceptions of a sentient species living on Planet Earth.
An approximation of the length of time our planet takes to orbit its Sun,the fall of its shadow on its moon,the length of time taken to rotate on its axis,multiples & fractions of all of the above.
Probability theory would seem to suggest that it is unlikely that this is the only planet hosting intelligent life.
At this point however we have no solid evidence of others.
Whilst other species are undoubtedly aware of time passing they do not seem to be measuring it.
Hence " human construct."

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 06:16 AM

"human construct" What exactly do you mean by that PF? Time is certainly perceived by other animals so it might be more accurately said to be part of the phylogenic memory bequeathed to us by Evolution, in other words the living through time is what we do.
Having said that the subjective perception of time passing can be altered for good Evolutionary reasons, for instance in situations of intense physical danger time seems to slow right down as the nervous system goes into hyper-drive to avert or minimise damage. Though the processing can be accelerated and maybe decelerated movement and related perception is quantised in 1/10th(ish) of a second units, so time is intrinsic to humans and other animals.
The Universe evolves in time; it becomes, remove the time and nothing happens.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 06:13 AM

At the coming of the great white handkerchief?

So Morris dancing IS a religion?

Cheers

:D

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 06:13 AM

When time ends, will we get 20 minutes to drink up?

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 05:38 AM

Nope. Can't be done.It was revealed in "Pyramids of Mars" that the TARDIS has Isomorphic controls.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 05:34 AM

Purple Foxx are you saying that we can't train a chimp to pilot the TARDIS once Dr Who and all of mankind has disappeared?

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: gnomad
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 04:59 AM

At the coming of the Great White Handkerchief, according to my pet Jatravartid anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 04:38 AM

Time is a human construct used to measure the passage of the fifth dimension.
So at one level , time could be said to end with the extinction of the human race.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 04:37 AM

Yea, but who knows where the time goes?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 04:24 AM

When will time end?   When hell freezes over.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Partridge
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 04:01 AM

Mayan calendar stops on 21/12/2012.........

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 02:09 AM

Time is the measure of perceived movements in space. If everything stops moving, so does time.

Not so, LH. Time is the perception of a linear connection between many "things" that results in the perception of the unfoldment of "events" (perception of movement being one kind of "event"). When all "things" are perceived simultaneously, time ceases to exist.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Kaleea
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 01:08 AM

oh, duh, LH! When Q decides to end time.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: John O'L
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:31 AM

Who's on first?

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:21 AM

Yeah. What about "Where will space end?"?

Or "How close is 'here'?"

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: John O'L
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 12:00 AM

The use of the word 'when' makes the question redundant. You are effectively asking "At what point in time will time end?" Obviously, the final one.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:47 PM

Well, I said "if". The only cases I've heard of in which time was seen to have stopped moving were when people went into deep meditation. You cannot, however, observe that in someone else when you aren't experiencing it yourself, obviously.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:39 PM

Holy cow .... even my metronome LH ??

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:33 PM

Time is the measure of perceived movements in space. If everything stops moving, so does time.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:04 PM

TIme is a postulated relationship between particles that insists, for convenience, that each one persists and is the same thing it was a moment before. This provides a nice solid one-directional stream to tag things with and keep all realities from being perceivable art once (which would confuse some people).

But it isn't true, just convenient.

A

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:02 PM

"It could've happened already."

no way man ... my watch is still clicking.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:44 PM

Time isn't physical, it's mathematical. So it is asymptotic. We can approach the end of time but we will never reach it. Only an infinite being could experience the end of time and we are finite. So, you are right, if the universe ended, how would we know? It could've happened already.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:37 PM

Time as we know it will end when the last person dies.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:23 PM

Then there's the "yo-yo" theory of cosmology which says that big bangs and big crunches have happened over and over again. So, even though time and space may end at the instant when our universe collapses into an infinitely dense singularity, that singularity will immediately explode with a new big bang, creating a new universe, new space, and new time. Time won't really end, it'll just hiccup.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:19 PM

And when you get there, don't forget to visit The Restaurant at the End of the Universe!

All you have to do is deposit one penny in a savings account in your own era, and when you arrive at the End of Time the operation of compound interest means that the fabulous cost of your meal has been paid for. This, many claim, is not merely impossible but clearly insane, which is why the advertising executives of the star system of Bastablon came up with this slogan: "If you've done six impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways, the Restaurant at the End of the Universe?"

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:18 PM

Like this...

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:18 PM

Garg, I read "Narnia" probably forty years ago. Did you ever read CS Lewis's "Out Of The Silent Planet"?

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:13 PM

Thanks for that advice Carol ... I'm gonna start practicing my back paddling first thing tomorrow morning.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:05 PM

Anyway, it's no big deal. When you get to the end of the universe, just back paddle, real hard.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:01 PM

Read the entire Chronicles of Narnia - it has a lucid description.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:52 PM

We must, of course, differentiate between "time" and "duration."   "Duration" is the time spent waiting in the doctor's office reading old magazines. "Time" is one of the magazines you read.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:52 PM

"the resulting contraction will end at the "Big Crunch" when both space and time will cease to exist."

Holy shit ... jeeez.

I kinda like Carol's post better.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:49 PM

The universe doesn't have to end when time does. It can stick around if it wants to.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:40 PM

Well now, reading and studying on Stephen Hawking's thoughts and, even more importantly, Bee-Dubya's explanation above about expanding and contracting universe(s), I can only come to the conclusion that the Universe as we know it is actually a cosmic accordion! Yes! And we can only hope that who/whatever is playing the accordion is actually playing a tume (perhaps "How Much Is That Doggie In The Window" or "Lady of Spain" or "Beer Barrel Polka") instead of just screwing around squeezing the squeezebox. Because if the cosmic accordion player is really playing something then time will end when the last measure is played and perhaps we move on to something else -- go from 4/4 to 9/8 or something.

You'd just better hope that there aren't many time changes in the music, like from 3/4 to 6/8 to 4/4. That could really screw things up.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: bobad
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:33 PM

When the batteries run out.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:22 PM

When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,
And the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;
When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,
And the roll is called up yonder, I'll be there.

Of course that happened at least 30 years ago; I know, because at least 40 years ago, all kindza preachers from Billy Graham on down were saying it was coming within about two years.

Subject: RE: BS: When will time end?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:17 PM

When Max pulls the plug.