BS: Pace-egger assaulted

Subject: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 04:33 AM

As some of you may be aware I am involved in an annual Pace-egg play during the week leading up to Easter. It was this seasons first airing last night and after we had got into part and had a brief run-through we went to do the first performance at a local pub.

While waiting to go in the pub a drunken lout began to harrass us in general and our Black Prince of Paradine in particular. Completely out of the blue and totaly unprovoked the yob swung a punch which has landed the Black Prince in hospital requiring some facial surgery to repair his lip.

We did try to detain the perpetrator but while waiting for the police (why they took 10 minutes to arrive is another story!) he broke loose and ran off. It is a bit difficult to give chase when dressed in odd attire and wearing clogs! I think it was very tempting, particulary for the players with blunt but very heavy swords, to dispense some justice but where would that have landed everyone? Imagine the headline? 'Folk tradition hooligans beat man up!'.

Anyone else had this type of bad experience? How did you handle it? What should we do if it happens again? I will keep you posted as to whether they caught the scrote and how our Black Prince is doing. In the interim catch us around the Hindley area on Thursday and in Lancaster on Friday. We will be the ones waiting to jump on anyone who starts anything;-)

Cheers

Hector the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 06:45 AM

A sad reflection on our wonderful modern society - If you dont understand something , take the mickey AND /or Break it !!

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 08:12 AM

Couldn't the swords sort of slipped? You know, "Gee officer, I guess he fell and hit his head."

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 08:12 AM

Dave the gnome,I'm very sorry to hear about this assault.

My best wishes to your injured group member, and to your entire group.

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: MBSLynne
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 08:56 AM

Sadly, Terry, I don't think it's anything new...people have always been scared of the different, or things they don't understand, and fear makes people lash out. Not that I'm saying that was the case with the yob in question...I should think that was more to do with alcohol than fear!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: folk1e
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 10:45 AM

Dave, was this in the "lion"??? .....if so he should be known to the "locals"
Give me a call next time and I can sit on him (he won't be running of then). Come to think of it a good blow to the kneecap with a set of fighting cloggs would do just as well!Oh well it's just as well I am a Salford Pacifist and was'nt there!
How is the BP?
all the best

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 11:11 AM

No - It was at the Swan but the guy who did was not let in there or into the Staff, from where he had already been ejected. The staff in the Staff(!) think he is called Tom and the Landlady, who wasn't there last night, may know his surname so we are trying to get in touch.

You will all be pleased to hear there were no long term effects to the Prince and they managed to stitch him without the need for any major surgery:-) He will be playing his part on Thursday and Friday after all! What a trooper:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 11:59 AM

"Completely out of the blue and totaly unprovoked"

Ya... right.... I'll believe THAT when pigs fly....

Cause there are always 3 sides to every story....

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 12:39 PM

Perhaps in the spirit of the living tradition the incident can be written into the play.

Violence and disorder are not unconnected with events of this nature. The Gorton Historical Recorder describes events in the 19C when Gorton Morrismen visited the Irish community in Clayton with the Rush Cart. Fighting broke out and much unhappiness ensured.

At a Gorton Rush cart around 1982 someone mocked Saddleworth for dancing behind women, Fiddlers Fancy or Poynton I think. The mocker got punched by one of Saddleworth and left in an ambulance. The only act of violence I have ever seen at a Folk event but probably not the only one that ever happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 12:45 PM

Don't forget to duck when that pig comes flying through your window, Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: The Walrus
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 12:50 PM

ClintonHammond,

"...Ya... right.... I'll believe THAT when pigs fly...."

Yes, I don't know the chap, butthe "Black Prince" was probably guilty of "Dressing Funny" with malice aforethought,
Deliberately not looking like the piss-head that attacked him,
Being a damned site more sober than the aforementioned drunk,
Not finding both his and his companions' costume as hilarious as the drunk and
"Looking At Me In A Funny Way" (ie: with both eyes and not through a fog of lager)
oh yes, and he was probably in stage make up and therefore "Weird".

Clinton, you have obviously never been a re-enactor (or, as in this case a dancer) in the presence of aggressive drunks.

I'm lucky, I'm big, I'm ugly and, when in kit I'm useually tooled up, and with friends which puts most drunks off.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 12:54 PM

"you have obviously never been a re-enactor"
For good reason.... I can't imagine why anyone would want to ponce around like that.... *shrug* If it blows your hair back, fine... Off you go... I hope you have fun.

"he was probably in stage make up"
Wear it on STAGE and no where else....

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: GUEST,Wyrd Sister
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 01:45 PM

All the world's a stage, Clinton Hammond. What do you do that's different?

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 02:21 PM

No one has ever tossed a punch at me that I didn't deserve....

:-P

"All the world's a stage"
Then suck it up when people laugh at you

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: GUEST,Ghost
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 03:21 PM

CH - "no-one ever tossed a punch at you that you didn't deserve"?   Probably.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 03:24 PM

Well, no one has ever tossed a punch at me.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: GUEST,Wyrd Sister
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 03:27 PM

Don't mind them laughing, but I don't want to be laughed to A&E!

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 03:29 PM

Arts & Entertainment?

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 06:28 PM

Well, no one has ever tossed a punch at me.

Well, that's probably because you have never met any nasty violent people that have taken a dislike to you, Clinton. Good luck to you in that.

Can I ask a question of you? Do you seriously believe that the poor bloke deserved to be put in hospital because he was wearing strange clothes and make up? Is that a common occurence in Canada? Is it equaly common to suggest that someone you have never met, for reasons that I cannot imagine, would not be telling the truth? Believe me, please. I was there I saw the incident from start to finish. It was out of the blue and unprovoked. Why are you saying that I am telling lies? I don't understand, I'm afraid. Can you enlighten me?

The Walrus has the truth of it. Surely you have seen people acting aggressively for no apparant reason before. For a start it seems to happen regularly here doesn't it?


Just for the record though we are not re-enactors. We do not dress in 'olde worlde' costume neither do we re-enact any historical event. It is a living and on-going tradition that the thugs, of all types, will hopefuly never put a stop to.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 08:35 PM

As per usual Clit Ham has behaved totally consistently

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 08:43 PM

He's saying so, Dave, because he likes to be that way. He doesn't give a damn about you. It gives him pleasure. He is behaving consistently for Clinton Hammond. Being a jerk, in other words.

It's downright incredible that on one has ever tossed a punch at him, and I'd say it's a testament to the good nature of Canadians, although I don't think Windsor is really known for being all that good natured a place.

Maybe he's just lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 08:58 PM

I mean, hey, I wish he'd accidentally make the error of talking to someone like Tony Soprano the way he does to people on this forum. Oh, do I wish...

Clinton just needs a little honest 3-D feedback, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 04:03 AM

Please guys - I really do want to know. I don't want to turn this into an attack on Clinton. Clinton and I share an interest in Sci-fi and fantasy, although we have disagreed on what is good and bad. We are both into folk music. We both like some modern music and some non-folk. we have agreed in many areas.

Then, for some reason, he decides that the victim in this attack was in some way at fault and that I am a liar for saying otherwise! I am not unduly worried by it nor can I be easily offended by someone I have never met. But I would like to know what that reason is. Either that or get an apology:-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 04:19 AM

Maybe Clinton did it. Let him post HIS side of the story. It could be that the Black Prince of Paradine said something about his Momma, or was looking at him strangely. He could even be a member of the Paradine Revolutionary Front.

Or the perpetrator could have been an outraged member of the CRE.. see previous threads on Coconut Dancers, Helston etc. (Q: was the Prince blacked up? Even if not, there's a clear implied suggestion that he's ethnic.)

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 04:40 AM

Funnily enough, Paul, the Black Prince is the only one that does not need to use black make up! He has a black veil that cannot been seen through. This year for the first time he was wearing it under a Monty Python Black Knight helmet. Hang on! That's it! It King Arthur that attacked him:-)

Cheers

:DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 05:45 AM

Well, all good fun, so long as nobody gets offended or hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 06:08 AM

Just a small and probably irrelevant point but is this, stricktly speaking, a non-musical thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 06:13 AM

A veil over his face... MUSLIM DRESS... the hero must have thought he was preventing a suicide egging.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: MBSLynne
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 06:15 AM

I've been knocked over in a totally unprovoked attack in my youth. I stood outside a pub waiting for the friend I had arranged to meet and two very drunken aboriginal girls came round the corner from another pub. They stood either side of me and started hurling verbal abuse which I ignored. Then one of them swung a punch and knocked me over. I had not looked at them, spoken, done anything but stand waiting for my friend. Aggressive drunks need no reason to hit someone.

And you won't get an apology from CH. He is, as I've said before, an arsehole. I'd far rather have Martin Gibson any day

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 06:52 AM

Clinton Hammond acts like this online because he can. Like most bullies he wouldn't dare say those sort of things to somebodies face. What a sad case of humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: sian, west wales
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 07:01 AM

I think I'd get the local Press in on this. Give them the story of how seriously concerned you are about the drunk, because there's an ancient tradition that says people who violate the sanctity of etc-etc-etc have ever increasing bad luck. "Downward spiral." "It'll all end in tears."

Of course, you have to say this with some balance of serious concern on one hand and with "of course, no one REALLY believes this but ..." on the other.

If this gets back to your drunk it could be enough to make him just a teeny bit paranoid the next time something goes wrong in his life.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 07:04 AM

Hehehehe - Nice one, Sian. I'll put it to the guys on Thursday.

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: The Walrus
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 08:57 AM

"... Just for the record though we are not re-enactors. We do not dress in 'olde worlde' costume neither do we re-enact any historical event. It is a living and on-going tradition that the thugs, of all types, will hopefuly never put a stop to...."


DtG,

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were anything other than dancers and, never having seen your team or group, I have no idea of the nature of your kit - I only brought in re-enactment as that has been MY prime experiences of meeting such drunks.

W.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 09:21 AM

It's OK, Walrus. No apology needed. I was just letting everyone know what type of group we actualy were. Just to clear it up a little more...

Although each of the players is or has been a Morris dancer we do not dance as part of this performance. Not knocking your post at all, Walrus - I thought it was excelent. I just don't want anyone to post under the mistaken impression that the pace-egg play is a dance whereas in this particular case it is a street play, done in rhyming couplets with an opening and closing song. In this case, again, we do collect money for the Abram Morris Dance to help maintain the dance team and the Morris dancers ground in Abram.

Hopefuly if I describe what goes on it may help?

Nutshell - Old Bold Ben calls in the players. We enter to a song. St George brags. Is challenged by Slasher. George kills Slasher, who it becomes apparant is Old Bold Bens son. Doctor resurects Slasher (Easter mysticism?). Slasher leaves. Act 2. George brags again. Black Prince challenges him and is killed. King of Egypt enters and calls on Hector to avenge his son (Black Prince). George fights and wounds Hector. Hector leaves. George and Ben argue again. Beelzebub enters. Little Devil Doubt enters asking for money. We collect with the closing song.

Confused? Wait till you see it complete with special effects! :-)

Another thought. Perhaps the thug just wanted to save the Black prince from being killed again? Perhaps he had seen us before and realy did think we were that bad?

Still wondering why you are doubting my word, Clinton. How can I defend my statement that it was 'out of the blue and unprovoked' unless you let me know why you find it so unfeasible?

Cheers

Dave the Gnone

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 11:05 AM

"he was probably in stage make up"
Wear it on STAGE and no where else....
The above words from Clinton Hammond, who, although stongly opinionated, I had previously thought reasonably intelligent.
How can he NEVER have heard of STREET THEATRE, which is what this particular play is, in a very traditional format.
I saw these guys perform at the Lancaster Maritime Festival in 2004 and they put on a damned good show. It was the best of three different Pace-egging Plays which I saw that Easter weekend.
The Black Prince is also a really nice guy, nobody deserves this sort of treatment however they are dressed, please give him my best Dave.
I think a bit of "Clog Justice" might have been in order though.
JohnB.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 11:12 AM

Further progress!

By visiting the pub that our violent yob was previously ejected from one of our players (Beelzebub oddly enough!) has found out not only the perpetrators name but also his address and information to lead us to believe that this is not the first time this has happened! Information has been passed to the police. Police are visiting Black Prince tonight for his full statement and will hopefuly update him on what actions are now being taken.

As we are all out tomorrow we can get an update from the Prince himself. I have his blood stained helmet and shield - I am sure he will get some mileage, and possibly the odd pint or two, out of that:-)

Keep you posted.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 11:18 AM

BTW - I am purposely refraining from any real names for both perpetrator and victim in case the whole thing ends up in the law courts. Not sure what the legalities are but if we mention ne real names I don't think we are in any infringement of court protocols. (Cannot be named for legal reasons etc.)

Thanks JohnB - Are you at Lancaster again this Friday? If so you can give him your best personaly - But don't rush at him too quickly;-)

Still not heard from Clinton.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:16 PM

That's cause I have a LIFE.....

I find it highly unlikely that this 'fight' was unprovoked.... and no, I do NOT believe things I read on the internet... especially when someone says "Believe me, I'm telling the truth... I saw it" cause if you ask any lawyer, judge or cop they'll tell you that eyewitness testimony is the bottom of the barrel....

"Do you seriously believe that the poor bloke deserved to be put in hospital because he was wearing strange clothes and make up?"
We don't KNOW that's the issue... YOU'RE assuming that's the reason he was 'hit'....

"Is it equaly(sic.) common to suggest that someone you have never met, for reasons that I cannot imagine, would not be telling the truth?"
There aren't very many people who go around hitting others for no good reason.... so yes, I doubt the veracity of your claim... Am I saying it DIDN'T happen that way?!?! No... I'm saying I doubt it very much.... cause there are a LEAST 3 sides to every story....

"people acting aggressively for no apparant(sic.) reason before"
There are always reasons....   



"as I've said before, an arsehole"
Well, takes one to know one.... Given the amount of Rust-Brown Ring donuts you munch, I'm not surprised.... You are what you eat

"he wouldn't dare say those sort of things to somebodies(sic.) face."
Show your face coward... I'll say this and a LOT more...

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:27 PM

Did somebody comment previously on Mr. Hammond's close resemblance to an anal orifice?

Where does he get it from? Did they throw the wrong bit away when he was circumcised, perhaps?

And if CH has a life, it's not life as we know it, Scotty...

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:39 PM

"if CH has a life, it's not life as we know it"

You don't recognize it, because I'm not a wincing little mouthbreather, collecting coins from gas-station mens-room encounters with truckers and felons. Not everyone lives like you do ya know.....

Got anything other than your pathetic attempts at Ad hominem to offer? Cause yer not even really good at that.....

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 12:52 PM

We don't KNOW that's the issue... YOU'RE assuming that's the reason he was 'hit'....

I don't belive everything I read on the internet either but I know exactly what the issue is here, Clinton. I was there I saw exactly what happened. I had no alcohol and no other substances to make me see things other than as they were.

We were stood waiting to go in the pub. This bloke came staggering down the road. Told us that he had a bigger dick than any of us. While we were absorbing that bit of useful information he looked at the Black Prince. Said 'What are you supposed to be?' and then hit him. Nothing was said to him by anyone. Nothing was done towards him that constituted a threat.

Why are you continuing with this personal attack on me? What have I done? Surely no-one attacks someone else without some sort of provokation do they? ;-) Can you not just admit that in this case you may be wrong?

And funnily enough, I have a life as well. I perform in a pace-egg play as well as go to folk clubs, design highly available computer systems to keep the wolf from the door and manage to fit in a good amount of Hiking amongst helping bring the family up:-) Funny how I manage to get on here as well. And spot that while you were having your full life outside this chatroom you were posting to the 'Goodbye to Mudcat' thread.

I don't mind being called a liar too much. I have been called worse. The people that matter know it is not true. Just as you know that whatever you are called here does not matter. Which is, I guess, why you react in such a civilised manner.

I really just want to know why you have decided that I do not tell the truth without even knowing me.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 01:02 PM

I haven't even called you a lier.... I've said -I'll- believe it when I hear all sides of the story

It's nothing against YOU Dave... I'd say the same thing to ANYONE... especially ANYONE on the internet.....

"why you react in such a civilised manner"
If they want to play silly little sand-box games, I'll stoop down and play too.... I have no problem beating them at a game I'm very good at.....

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 02:16 PM

Clinton - Why Oh Why do you have to leap in with both feet like this ?? You do yourself NO favours at all !!

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 02:36 PM

It's easier to stomp on them if I leap in with both feet....

:-P
Heh

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Barry Finn
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 02:53 PM

CH. It must be easy for your mouth to get your jaw broken.

"Well, no one has ever tossed a punch at me."

Well, I can bet there's 3 sides to that story.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 02:55 PM

You could bet, but you'd lose.... :-P Heh

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 04:52 PM

It's downright incredible that no one has ever tossed a punch at him

Noone can throw a punch at you online. That makes it easier to get away with stuff that would be likely to get you thumped in real life. If that is what you enjoy doing.

And perhaps it's actually true that where CH lives it is unheard of for people to get attacked by yobs and drunks because they look different, or for even less than that. Sadly in an awful lot of places that isn't the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 05:26 PM

Clinton. You're exact phrase, if you would care to look up a thread a way, was Ya... right.... I'll believe THAT when pigs fly....

I apologise if I have misunderstood but in response to a statement I made, about it being completely out of the blue and unprovoked, that looks remarkably like you are suggesting that my version of events is rather unlikely. Would you please explain how else I could have interpretted it in any other way than you are doubting my word? If you do not believe what I say to be true what other conclusion can I come to other than you think that I am lying? Simply put if a statement is not true it must be false.

Nowhere in your opening post did you say I've said -I'll- believe it when I hear all sides of the story If that is what you are saying now please have the courtesy to explain your previous phraseology so we do not misinterpret your meaning. Hopefuly you will be able to hear all sides of the story as and when the case is tried. Until then would you care to give me the benefit of the doubt?

I look forwards to your reply.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 06:25 PM

To the contrary, McGrath! ;-P Clinton lives in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Windsor is a fairly gritty, mean, industrial town as Canadian towns go, and I'm sure it has had plenty of incidents of drunks beating up other people because they looked "different" or for less than that.

Clinton's just been lucky, that's all. Or...he acts quite differently in person than he does on this forum. Or he's been damned lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Pace-egger assaulted
From: folk1e
Date: 13 Apr 06 - 03:25 AM

I guess that CH will not believe this eather but last night Iwas playing snooker with one of the "eggers" His account was extreemly simmilar to DtG's. That makes at least TWO independant witness'! The evedence mounts!!!
Or am I lying as well?