BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 May 06 - 06:21 PM

Samuel L. Jackson played "Zeus Carver" in Die Hard 3 "With a Vengeance"

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Amos
Date: 29 May 06 - 06:30 PM

Don:

It was not Goethe's Faustus, but Christopher Marlowe's, who cried out to Helen about her ship-launching and tower-burning powers, and asked for a kiss.

Viz, in Scne 13:

"Faustus:

Was this the face that launched a thousand ships?
And burnt the topless towers of Ilium?
Sweet Helen, make me immortal with a kiss.
Her lips suck forth my soul; see where it flies.
Come, Helen, come give me my soul again.
Here will I dwell, for heaven be in these lips,
And all is dross that is not Helena"

A

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 06 - 06:33 PM

Thanks, Amos. I stand corrected.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 06 - 06:38 PM

It just occurred to me:   the way the cartoonist depicted Helen in the comic book, if she couldn't bestow kisses, she could at least give someone a peck.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 May 06 - 06:41 PM

Would she bill them for it?

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 06 - 06:50 PM

Maybe, if she were at the beak of her attractiveness. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 29 May 06 - 07:22 PM

Ohhh.... Ewe guies quack me yup...

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 06 - 07:53 PM

Well, I probably should have ducked the whole thing, but. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: bobad
Date: 29 May 06 - 07:56 PM

The truth lies within The Evil Bible.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 May 06 - 08:05 PM

Thanks for crapping up yet another thread with your ATTEMPTS at 'humour'

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Amos
Date: 29 May 06 - 08:33 PM

Personally, I'd be a little chicken to push the issue very hard; consider what happened to Paris!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 06 - 08:46 PM

Well, as Humpy Gocart said in that movie, "We'll always have Paris." Didn't anybody tell him?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 May 06 - 10:48 PM

I love your attitude toward drunken sports fans, Clinton, if I may say so... ;-) Couldn't agree more.

And now we return to our scheduled program.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:00 AM

Nice one, Jeri:-) Who's sori now, ideed!

I don't know if you read what I said, Sori. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying you you did NOT look like the other poster. Your attempt to turn that into a personal insult to you makes me think I was wrong in doing so.

I was not going to post it on this thread as I have said it enough on the other. NO ONE KNOWS. There is no valid evidene for or against the existence of Jesus. It is all supposition. Make your own mind up based on the vague 'proof' provided but don't try and pass it off as the truth either way.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:01 AM

Forgot to add - Who says Zeus is mythic anyway?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 10:23 AM

You know, the people posting to this thread are incredibly rude.

First, posts complaining about me being a monster. Where on earth is that coming from, please?

Then, posts complaining about my motives for posting. Posts claiming I was "baiting Christians". Come on! Are you people so stupid you can't participate in an intelligent conversation?

Finally, posts from a bunch of idle men, apparently, who think butting into someone else's conversation to entertain us all with their dazzling wit, is what--something to be admired?

Well, it isn't. It is rude.

Just because this is a web forum doesn't mean manners don't apply to YOU.

Grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 06 - 10:26 AM

"So far it's been Little Hawk, Big Mick, and you."

Would you be kind enough to explain how you think I have attacked you?"


In between your rants at various people, perhaps you would answer the above. It's the third request.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 10:37 AM

And if you could read, you would see I answered it long ago. It was your "KEEEERIST!" comment I found rude, inappropriate, and uncalled for.

I, like many other people here, are fed up with rude and obnoxious posters like you and the others I mentioned, who ruin every single thread they stumble into, by wrecking it with their boorish behavior. Attacks on other posters for no reason, except sport. Mocking and open hostility towards the opinions of others. Childish name calling. Hijacking threads RUDELY by starting up with the infantile "humor" posts which only scream "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!"

Grow up will you, and stop trying to make everything into a pissing contest.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 10:41 AM

And really, your rude attempts to DEMAND I answer to you, really takes the cake. And only serves to prove that you have no manners and decency whatsoever. Your demands that I respond tit for tat to you had nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread, and therefore required no response.

We don't all stoop to your level of tit for tat, pissing on threads behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:00 AM

Oh. Thank you so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:13 AM

It sure seems that Sori is the one making this into a pissing contest. Just another loud mouth ranter on Mudcat. Evil too.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:20 AM

Look again at the third post to this thread, to see who started the pissing contest.

But I'm done with this thread. It is pointless to try and carry on a conversation with people who post only to slap other people down, and demonize them by calling them 'monsters' and 'evil', just for speaking their mind when their thread gets rudely interrrupted by people with no interest whatsoever in the subject matter being discussed.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:31 AM

There is an interesting thing I just came across:

"Before the abolition of monarchies, Zeus was protector of the king and his family."

from
here.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:36 AM

On occasion the thought has crossed my mind: What if our GOD is in reality the gods of mythology and legend? We have all read of their exploits, their vindictive irrationality, their petty intrigues. Ya think?

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 12:07 PM

If you beleive in an omnipotent god, you are acknowledging exactly that, Ebbie.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 06 - 12:30 PM

I've gotta admit that the Old Testament god resembles the crowd on Mount Olympus.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:15 PM

Well, sorry, Sori, if you got a bit tweaked at a touch of levity further upstream, but let's face it, the subject of this thread has been cussed and discussed so many times here on Mudcat—and other places—that large numbers of people, including myself, get bored spitless with it. Been there, done that, again and again and again and yet again. Right now there is another thread (at least one) extant on essentially the same subject. There have been dozens in the past and there will be an infinite number in the future, no doubt.

And these discussions never go anywhere because they're about faith and belief. Early on in the discussion, more than likely in the first post, you start trampling on someone's cherished beliefs and since they can't really defend them—any more than you can support your position—it ceases to be a discussion and turns into a pissing contest. You're not going to change anyone's mind. Okay, if you like the exercise of arguing about the subject, then go right ahead. But don't think it's ever actually going to accomplish anything.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:32 PM

Sori, I can't speak for everyone here, but I responded (not rudely) and you didn't address either point I raised. Are you only responding to people who are rude? Isn't that kind of a diminishing-returns, self-fulfilling-prophecy sort of thing?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:34 PM

"large numbers of people, including myself, get bored spitless with it"
So the, don't post to it.... Easy peasy right?

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Haruo
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:38 PM

"Keriste" was what Peace wrote, twice I think (the first time actually "Keriste on a crutch", which appears to be the one taken offensively. Sori turned up the volume to "KEEEERIST!"

Haruo

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:44 PM

I'll say it again, one more time.

Don't like the subject? Don't open the thread.

Don't like the poster? Skip over their posts, and make no comment to or about them.

No matter how worn out or controversial a thread or a personality, good manners and netiquette is very clear about what your response should be:

Nothing. EVER.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:47 PM

I didn't attack Sori at all. If I said something offensive I am sorry. IMO, this thread with the ranting from the thread starter has become a waste of time. However, I hope the rest of you can keep on despite the crud.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:20 PM

And needless to say, I disagree with your opinion.

However, I will accept the apology in the spirit it is given.

As to my 'ranting'. How about you go back and read my contributions and at least make a good faith attempt to compare what you refer to as rants (and I would say were attempts to stave off the begrudgers and belittlers attacking me personally, in an effort to save the thread), to my on-topic contributions here.

Then, compare and weigh that against the contributions by:

Big Mick
Dead Horse
Peace
Sinsull
Dave the Gnome
Jeri
Ron Davies

and the Mudcat 'humorists' who, as Clinton noted, found it necessary to interrupt the thread rudely with their clever ripostes

Big Pink Lad
Amos
Don Firth
Thomas the Rhymer

The vast majority of the above posters ONLY contributions to this thread concerned me--either my personal identity, or my personal motives.

A few of them did manage to contribute something to the thread, but then joined the lemmings attacking me personally.

Anyone discern a pattern here?

No?

Then you are part of the problem that derailed and hijacked this thread by making it personal, behaving rudely and obnoxiously, and by opening a thread you never had any interest in to begin with, just to engage in the very tired, very outworn Mudcat bloodsport of ripping on individuals and pissing on their contributions.

WYSIWYG, you never once addressed a post to me personally. You addressed your post to "Anyone..."

Haruo, you are looking like lemming in the end as well.

Now, if I haven't managed to put this thread out of it's misery, I'm sure the rest of you will see to it that this ends as it always does in this forum.

With the departure of the person being attacked, you all swarm like locusts to begin flaming the person, yet again, in hopes of bringing them back to keep playing your destructive little game.

So have it. I expect nothing less of you. You all claim how great one another is, how wonderful a human being each other is, what a wonderful world Mudcat is.

Then you turn around on a dime and behave viciously like this.

In other words, you are all more than a bit two faced.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:25 PM

I wouldn't call their 'ripostes' clever in the least....

"you are all more than a bit two faced"
That's people for ya eh.....

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:30 PM

Yep, it sure is. Which is why most of the good folks keep leaving.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:33 PM

So, Sori, you did read my post.... but you chose not to address the points I raised.

OK.... you only address posts addressed to you....? Did you by any chance make some assumption about my motives in making the post I did?

~Susan
WYSIWYG:What You See Is What You Get

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:37 PM

As I said in my first post. This thread had nothing at all to do with your subject. It was a troll, designed to elicit a response so you could write posts such as the one above. You are the classic troll. You got the response you wanted, so you could then sit in judgement on all the ignorant savages (tongue in cheek, in case you don't recognize it).

It doesn't matter if you use an anonymizer or change your name from Sori, to Peace Matriot or any of the dozens you use. You cannot hide. Your style is so evident as to make it very easy to see you.

I believe I said in the first post I made that the premise isn't a bad one for discussion. Why don't you get back to it? Oh, I forgot. You really could care less for the discussion.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:39 PM

In posting your thoughts on 'Jesus as mythic god like Zeus' you set no parameters for what constitutes acceptable comment. Which is perfectly fine as it's not your place to do so. You asked no question, either, so what did you really expect? Most all the people who have taken time out of their lives to add a comment are regulars here and actually include humour to temper the occasionally harsh words from others. As our good friend, and your ally, Clinton H. often says, it's just a virtual reality and you ought not let it bend you out of shape. Moreover, you might want to be a little more careful about slagging people off because, as many have found out the hard way, shit sticks and you'll give people an unshakeable perception of yourself as something you may not be.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:58 PM

I'm not responsible for other people's delusions about the identity and motives of people who post here.

As you point out so deftly, shit does indeed sticks. It also stinks to high heaven, so you might want to have a peek at those who can't seem to keep their hands out of and off the shit to begin with, before blaming the recipient of the shit flinging games, BigPinkLad.

Yes, it is just a virtual reality. And as 'the regulars here' keep demonstrating so ably, their virutal reality sucks so bad, they have to stoop to playing in shit and attacking others to get any entertainment value out of it.

Bad behavior is bad behavior, whether by delusional clones bearing big grudges against Mudcat ghosts and imaginary bogeymen, or posters like you who, when called on your bad behavior, choose to flame the person who called you out for it, rather than admit to it and apologize as any decent person would do in normal conversation.

Now, who do you suppose that makes look worse to a disinterested, neutral party who might come stumbling in to the place, hmmmm?

It is clear a whole lot of you don't like me making you look so bad. But rather than point the finger at me, how about you examine your own behavior instead?

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 06:05 PM

Have you tried Mydol?

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 06:22 PM

Oh, now that's a mature response in a 'I know you are, but what am I' sort of way.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 06:28 PM

Well, I gave what I thought was a mature response and you shat on it. I can't win this can I? Tell you what ... how about I let you have the last word? ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 May 06 - 06:32 PM

I have to agree with Big Mick. The very nature of this thread, right from the first post, is to poke buttons. Anybody with half a brain knows that trying to demean someone else's religious beliefs is going to almost immediate result in escalating animosity. I contributed two or three serious posts to the discussion, endeavoring to keep it on some kind of civilized level (the more fool me!) and kept my cool despite sniping from the peanut gallery. When an opportunity arose to inject a bit of humor in what was turning out to be a slagging contest, I did, and a couple others joined in.

For those stiff-lipped persons who don't think that bit of by-play was at all amusing, puns take a certain verbal skill and adeptness with words, and I've noted that most people who consider the pun the lowest form of humor do so because they're lousy at it.

The whole subject of this and another very recent thread on essentially the same subject is to try to get up the noses of those who might have some belief invested in Christianity. There's a lot of trouble being stirred up in the world these days by people attacking each others' religions. There's an expression for that. It's called religious intolerance. And there's a word for the general category that includes religious intolerance:   bigotry.

Religious discussions between believers and non-believers, and those of varying beliefs can be quite interesting and productive of ideas, especially when participants in the discussion can come away with new ideas to consider.

But at the rate this thread is going, I don't see much of that happening here. But then, I get the impression that that was not necessarily the original intention.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Hint hint
Date: 30 May 06 - 06:32 PM

From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:20 AM

Look again at the third post to this thread, to see who started the pissing contest.

But I'm done with this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:00 PM

Don,

Because something is a hot button issue, doesn't mean a thread originator is merely intent upon pushing other peoples' buttons by wishing to discuss it from their perspective.

There are actually people who have demonstrated an interest here in Mudcat in discussing this subject from a position other than a Christian believer/sympathizer perspective in a rational, reasonable fashion.

The shit flingers in this thread are not among them.

What is plain as day is, the Christian believers and sympathisers who are regularly shit stirrers and flingers in this forum, simply can't resist flinging the shit at those who wish to discuss the subject from that very perspective.

And don't tell me there is no right to free speech in Max's forum. That is just bogus.

Some people are free to speak here, others not.

The difference?

The opinions and beliefs of the editors.

How do they control how the thread goes?

See post #3 to this thread.

Because of the Mudcat editor expressing a derogatory opinion about the thread originator, the subject matter has been censored de facto, and the thread derailed.

THAT is the power the Mudcat editors hold here.

I, like many others now, will continue to point that out whenever I see it happen to me or anyone else here.

Why?

Because it is so unfair, unjust, and inequitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:09 PM

Azizi just said this on the 'Balancing Mudcat' thread:

"The problem within the Mudcat community that I'm most concerned about is not that there are different groups of people and that some people within different circles don't get along with others. As far as I'm concerned, such is life. However, my overarching concern is that-in my opinion, there have been times when moderators have not been fair, and consistent in their deletion of individual's threads or posts. dividual's posts and threads. What I want within Mudcat is fair, just, and equitable treatment of folks without regard to who they are,how long they have been on Mudcat, or other indices."

Amen to that.

Exactly what I'm talking about happened here in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:11 PM

Okay, back to the original discussion.

My considered opinion:

Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.

Jesus was really Julius Caesar. Jesus was really Zeus. Jesus was really Horus. Jesus was really Josephus. Jesus was really Paul. Jesus was really William Shatner. Jesus was really (fill in blank                      ). Jesus was really anybody but Jesus.

Cogent arguments, those.

I recall in an English Lit. class I took way back when:   subject, Shakespeare's plays. The question came up about those who insist that Shakespeare didn't really write the plays that where attributed to him. Various people claimed that they were really written by Ben Jonson, Christopher Marlowe, the Earl of Derby, the Earl of Rutland, the Earl of Southampton, the Earl of Essex, Sir Walter Raleigh, Francis Bacon, and a whole raft of other "usual suspects" including Queen Elizabeth I. After spending a fair amount of class time chewing over the possibilities and in the end, by applying Occam's Razor, we concluded that it was probably Willliam Shakespeare who wrote the plays of William Shakespeare. One of the students asked, "Why do people feel it's necessary to question what's patently obvious? What's to be gained?"

"Well," said the Prof, "it gives them something to do and keeps them off the streets."

In the meantime, Sori, you seem to be accusing only the Christians (and I do not number myself among them, surprise, surprise!) of being the "shit-stirrers" around here. That's not my perception of it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:19 PM

Don, you are in the wrong thread, then.

It is clear you want to discuss whether or not there is an historic Jesus.

I don't.

I want to discuss the impacts of religious believers/sympathisers' beliefs upon the rest of us, and what it means for the future.

I am discussing it in the context of the Christian religion, because I am currently being misruled by Christians in a country where they should not have the right to impose their mythical beliefs upon my or anyone else's reality.

The above are two totally different conversations, hence the need for two threads.

Clearly, the Christians & their sympathisers here in Mudcat, as is also true in our political world right now, do not want to see non-believers have a public forum for the discussion of what is important to us.

Hence, the derailing and hijacking of this thread.

You are behaving every bit as well as the Christian right wing of the Republican party in this thread.

Why?

You won't leave non-believers alone for long enough to hold a conversation.

Rather, you claim that we are bigots. You claim we are intolerant. All because we won't discuss the issue in YOUR terms, rather than our own.

So who is truly being intolerant here?

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:23 PM

In the course of reading Emily Post and other good-manners mavens, one discovers that it is dreadfully rude to respond rudely to others' rudeness. The well bred person is expected to sniff inaudibly and depart the premises. Farewell, my deah.

Subject: RE: BS: Jesus as mythic god like Zeus
From: GUEST,Sori
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:31 PM

It's pretty tough to sniff inaudibly, when one is holding one's nose from the stench.

My deahly departed. ;-)