Axis of Idiocy defends occupation

Subject: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: GUEST,Depworth
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:09 PM

George Bush and Tony Blair issued a joint statement today defending their record of "nation-building" in Iraq and spoke optimistically of the day, soon to come, when all Iraqis will enjoy liberty, freedom, peace, and prosperity under Axis guidance.

Israel, the third key member of the Axis of Idiocy, was quick to voice its solidarity with that viewpoint, and said, "We would stay in Lebanon too, if we were still needed there, but we did such a great job in the last invasion that we are not needed any longer...at least most Lebanese don't seem to think so. We hope, however, to be needed somewhere else soon, and we are always ready to lend a hand to disadvantaged people wherever they may be as long as they are within feasible range of an airstrike."

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:14 PM

And they are called "Leaders".sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:31 PM

"Leaders", derived from lead (very dense!)

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:01 PM

Hell, any boy ever caught a sunfish knows that a leader is something tied to a sinker, with a nasty hook on the other end.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:18 PM

Always thought they were a couple of stinkers ... (that was what you said wasn't it?)

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:45 PM

I would reckon the body count just in from Iraq signifies more than the work of a "couple of stinkers"

The fact that Blair and Bush were re-elected after the crime of the Iraq invasion, makes the UK/US electorate just as odorous.

The tone of this thread saddens but does not surprise me.
A handful of men in Britian and America, responsible for the violent deaths of over 2 per cent of Iraqi nationals and we look on them as "laddish yobs" sighing and shaking our heads in frustration.

If we are frustrated and disenfranchised by our political system.
If we feel we have no control over our foreign policy, then WE...not Bush and Blair are really to blame....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:52 PM

What else are we meant to do on this thread?

Sometimes humour is as valid a way of coping with unpleasant information as any other.

And besides, in a "democracy" where your choices are limited as much as they are, you can do everything only to see it have no real impact, and then maybe you might decide to come and unwind at the mudcat to sigh and shake your head for a bit befor getting a good nights sleep in anticipation of the day ahead of you.

I didn't choose blair or bush. I didn't reelect anyone.

Find someone else to take it out on.

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:59 PM

I enjoy humour as much as any , but I must be a bit warped as I fail to see anything funny in the preventable deaths of 650,000 men women and children...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:03 PM

A couple of thoughts, Ake. Bush may NOT have truly won the last election...or the one before it. They may both have been stolen, the last one by fixing the vote on the computer-controlled voting machines which leave no traceable trail and which were installed by good friends of the Republican Party. The exit polls in 3 key states on election day suggested most strongly that Kerry would win. I watched it throughout that day. He lost all 3 of them, exit polls notwithstanding, and that lost him the election. That suggests fraud, massive fraud, performed in a way that can never be traced.

If so, the electorate is not to blame...they are helpless in the face of a criminally controlled system.

A strong majority of the UK populace was clearly deeply opposed to going to war in Iraq. Their government didn't give a damn. That isn't representative government, it's a velvet dictatorship pretending to be a democracy, and going through the motions at election time. If Blair had not been in, the other guy (whoever) would have done the same, in my opinion, because the public's viewpoint is not a determining factor in imperial policy.

Had Kerry been elected I suspect it would have made almost no difference in US foreign policy. They would still have continued their occupation and their war.

You overestimate the choices offered to the American public by their moribund democracy. They really are offered little choice at all, only a variation in outer style...and that variation is done to fool them into imagining they have a choice. They don't. The real substance behind the style remains a policy of war and intervention across the globe, and both the Democrats and Republicans are in it up to their necks.

I suspect the same is true of both your Labour and your Conservative parties in the UK.

In other words, the game is fixed.

We don't have real democracies, we have pretend democracies which hold showcase elections designed to convince the mentally enslaved that they are free. And people buy it.

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:12 PM

Well, yeah, LH is correct in his suggestion that when we have in the White House is a thief... Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004 both had much different results than the exit polls...

But, nevermind that for now... I disagree with Blair and Isreal being included in the Axis Idiocy seein' as they both are dependent from orders higher up... Yeah, my choice of the Axis of Idiocy members are...

....Dick Cheney, Richard Pearle and Paul Wolfowitz everyone else, Bush, Rice, Rumsy all in a second tier of followers...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:30 PM

I suspect the same is true of both your Labour and your Conservative parties in the UK.

Well LH, I suppose you could consider New Labour our Democrats and the Conservaties our republicans. I think many of the anti-war people here would still have considered New Labour the lesser of the 2 evils. From my perspective, it seems Americans had an easier choice.

(I voted Lib-Dem btw).

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:36 PM

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking about your British parties, Jon. I view Blair as having hijacked his party. The electorate could not have been expected to anticipate that when they elected New Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:55 PM

No I don't think we did, LH and I know I hadn't seen it. We have of course re-elected him since Iraq but wherever NL are, the tories will be to the right of that...

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:08 PM

And there you have the crux of the problem. You've got a population which is not truly being represented by the main parties which can be expected to govern. The same is true in the USA. In such a case a democracy cannot, in fact, function as it was intended to and it has ceased to all intents and purposes to BE a real democracy.

The same is true in Canada. All our major parties have been bought by huge financial elites, and no matter which one we elect the corporate agenda goes forward. The public doesn't want war, but the war industries do. The public doesn't want prices to go up, but the corporations do. The public doesn't want unemployment, but the business elite do, because it give them the whiphand over their employees. We also vote for whatever we deem "the lesser of 2 evils", hoping against hope that what we fear will not happen...and then it happens. We are betrayed by whichever party we voted in. Not sometimes. Every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:21 PM

>>A couple of thoughts, Ake. Bush may NOT have truly won the last election...or the one before it. They may both have been stolen, the last one by fixing the vote on the computer-controlled voting machines which leave no traceable trail and which were installed by good friends of the Republican Party.<<

It should never have been close enough for that. They pulled off the 2nd fraud because way too many idiotic American voters allowed them to get close enough to do it.

Americans ARE guilty. All of us. We didn't all vote for Bush but we are Americans and we have to live with what our fellow American dumbfucks have done. Just because I didn't ask to get dragged into the manure pit doesn't mean I'll climb out of it smelling like a rose. We all have to bear the shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:41 PM

I suggest you study Greg Palast's analysis of the subtle techniques scams used in shifting the election, of which there were a good half-a-dozen different ones used widely in both the 2000, 2004 and oner may expect planned for 2008 elections. See, for example, this page. Read "Armed Madhouse" and marvel.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:43 PM

"Americans ARE guilty. All of us . . . We all have to bear the shame."

Sorry, 282, but I disagree. I do not believe in collective guilt and I refuse to accept blame for what other people did, especially when I fought like a demon to prevent it. I may have been dragged into the manure pit, but I'm not to blame, not are other Americans like me. Those who dragged us into the pit are the ones who are to blame.

I also refuse to accept the concept of Original Sin.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:15 AM

I believe that the next November mid term elections also stand a good possibility of once again being stolen! Only a few places have taken that one on. I believe Mass. has a new law on the books that demands a paper trail.

Barry

Subject: RE: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation/2660 Iraq deaths
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:35 AM

Shia leaders, including even radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr, are coming to believe their militias must be reined in if there is to be any chance of establishing a Shia-dominated regime in Iraq. Apparently they have begun to see that Shia death-squads have been radicalizing Sunni groups that were at least willing to acquiesce to Shia rule, thus feeding the violence in the country. How this will play with the more violent elements in the Shia militia remains to be seen. Even Sadr has reportedly been having trouble keeping control over the more hot-headed among his followers.

The basic problem is that, while there are still thousands of Sunni Arabs who believe they can use terrorist attacks to regain control of the country, the Kurds and Shia Arabs now have an overwhelming advantage in the firepower department. There is no terrorism to speak of in the northern Kurdish provinces. Kurdish border guards and police see to that. In most southern Shia Arab towns, it's the same. Strangers, especially if they look to be Sunni Arabs, are definitely not welcome down there. But in central Iraq, where Shia and Sunni Arabs live mixed together (with a few Kurds), it's easier for Sunni terrorists to get around. Well, it used to be easier. Now it's getting harder. More road blocks, and cops who are better at spotting terrorists, have brought down the number of terror attacks. Meanwhile, the Shia Arab death squads are increasing their operations. Death squads don't just kill, they also deliver letters to Sunni families living in Shia areas, telling the Sunnis to get out or die. As a result, there are fewer Sunni Arabs living among Shia. In the last three years, over a third of the Sunni Arab population has moved, either within Iraq, or fleeing the country altogether.

Many of the killers on the Shia death squads want all Sunni Arabs out of Iraq, dead or alive. It's largely a matter of revenge. For decades, Saddam had his own death squads working in Kurdish and Shia Arab areas. Over half a million were killed, and all of them had kin. There are plenty of avengers out there. There are three times as many Shia as there are Kurds, and for the Shia, the revenge is religion based (al Qaeda terrorists kill Shia partly for religious reasons), as well as political and personal. The violence in Iraq is all about power (the Sunni Arab minority thinks they can bully their way back in) and revenge (the Shia Arabs and Kurds want Sunni Arabs brought to justice, with or without a trial).

Subject: RE: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation/2660 Iraq deaths
From: kendall
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:46 AM

Voting machines are verboten in Maine.

Subject: RE: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation/2660 Iraq de
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM

The basic problem is nothing was thought through by the invaders.

Subject: RE: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation/2660 Iraq de
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM

Or even more basic, that we went there in the first place.

Subject: RE: Axis of Idiocy defends occupation/2660 Iraq deaths
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 02:14 PM

Yeah! Hitler made that same mistake in Poland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, France, Yugoslavia, Greece, and....(drum roll)....Russia!

People just don't like being invaded and occupied for some reason, and they don't buy it when you tell them you did it to "help them out" either.