Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:40 AM

Well Bert, a certain Labour government had the oil income for many years ahead, spent before a barrel was pumped. When you borrow that sort of money, you've got to pay a heck of a lot of interest!
I agree with the idea that fuel duty is the way to go, but that must have some sort of built in allowances to cover those who have little or no access to public transport.
The EEC has jus banned the use of 'Rebated' diesel [Red diesel] in boats, apart from fishing boats, thus throwing a lot of live aboard boat owners into a parlous financial position, this will save very little.
Meanwhile Gordon Brown has doubled the air passenger duty from £5 to £10, this is another drop in the ocean, and it still means that aviation fuel is untaxed!!
Aeroplanes [Gargoyle!!] are one of the largest contributors to greenhouse gasses!
Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:39 AM

OK DMcG, you are doing about 2000 miles per month commuting. Now I said put extra on fuel duty. If you drive a sensible-ish vehicle you are probably getting nearly 40 mpg (I'm a low mileage driver, a bit of a maniac, but can get about 37 to the gallon out of a dirty great Volvo 740 GLT estate if I just tickle along at the motorway limit). So that's 50 gallons per month. Call it about 225 litres per month. To sting you for £2,600 per month (the equivalent of 2,000 x£1.30 per mile road pricing) they'd have to put fuel duty up by another £11.55 per litre, putting the price of petrol up to £12.50 per litre.

Is that politically viable?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:46 AM

The other issue of course is that it will mean the end of the life on the road and the travelling musician. I do about 25,000 miles a year for gigs. Out of my fee I take all my expenses and then pay income tax. A new road tax will make a lot of my work unprofitable. Luckily I'm coming to the end of my working life as a musician, but for the young ones coming up and hoping for a career it's a death blow.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:15 AM

...they'd have to put fuel duty up by another £11.55 per litre, putting the price of petrol up to £12.50 per litre.

Is that politically viable?

Ah, there's the true reason why a simple fuel tax would not suit the government's purpose.

A combination of fuel tax increase and road tolls (e.g. on the M25 during peak periods) would achieve the government's stated aims, i.e. reduce road use and relieve traffic congestion, but not their unstated ones (being able to monitor every driver's movements, speed, etc.)

If the proposed mileage tax is made law, how long before we are all personally fitted with monitoring devices implanted under the skin, so every citizen's movements will be trackable at all times?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:28 AM

No, Richard, I agree setting fuel tax anywhere near that level would be political suicide.

Just to make things clear for everyone, I'm not actually averse to road pricing as such [though I'm by no means happy about the government monitoring where everyone is].   However, I suggest the "right" charge I should incur is a smallish multiple of what the cost of equivalent public transport over those distances at that time would be, if it existed - maybe double?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:34 AM

Turnpike fees, a couple of centuries back, nearly caused a revolution...

And rightly so in my opinion. When we are charged simply to exercise rights of highway and so travel we become prisoners.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Essex Girl
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:45 AM

Public transport within central London is excellent. Anyone who insists on using a car without good reason (ie disability, deliveries)must be either wealthy or have a very benevolent employer. It's a far different story outside. If I wish to go to Dartford Folk club I have to either drive or leave the club half way through the second half to catch a train home. My son has a Sunday job at Bluewater, but the trains have not been running on Sundays for several weeks, so to avoid the slow 'rail replacement buses'(which will still cost him an hours wage and take an hour or more to get there)I drop him off to get the fasttrack bus,(a 20 minute drive)but as he soesn't finish until quite late I still have an hours round trip to pick him up. We would much prefer to use public transport if it was viable.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:25 AM

When we are charged simply to exercise rights of highway and so travel we become prisoners

Too true, Richard. And those who object to having their fingerprints taken like a criminal and having to carry an ID card - which of course will be entirely voluntary - will be prisoners of the UK when the time comes for them to renew their passports.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:57 AM

Of course it could just be one of those ideas being floated about that is so unacceptable that when the real plans are published, they seem moderate.

Say the real plan is a charge £5 to pass certain congested motorway junctions and similar bottle-necks at busy times. It's not so expensive, and less intrusive on civil liberties, so seems acceptable.

Re Aircraft fuel, thankfully that is still untaxed. If the UK taxes it, and the rest of Europe does not, all that would happen is the long distance flights would all go into Paris, Amsterdan etc, and people would take short hop flights to get to them, thereby rasisng fuel consumption. It needs EU wide agreement to do any good. Of course, the political will to roughly double the cost of flying would be hard to find in a party, let alone a continenet.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:14 AM

Yes, I said it was an asking price high above.

Doubling the cost of flying would be good. It might stop unwelcome far flung relatives (not that I have any of course) coming home.....

Business travel is almost always a jolly in disguise....

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:30 AM

Agh! Mudcat ate my posting.

I can't be arsed to type it all in again, but basically I said I didn't agree with your last sentence, Richard. I've spent to much time away from home and family, working long hours for no extra pay, etc., etc., to agree with that.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:30 AM

"to much" should read "too much"

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:39 AM

Oh, I used to like the trips to Singapore and California, expenses paid in hotels etc.   Even Paris and Munich were OK.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 11:51 AM

Years ago the French built autoroutes, for which tolls were payable, they were told by the EEC that the charges were illegal, and they said the money was being used to construct more roads, and so got a derogation. Don't know where they stand now but I do wonder whether the UK government's alleged plans are legal in an EEC context.
In my truck driving days we used the back roads in France where the food was better and cheaper, fuel was also cheaper. The French government slapped weight restrictions on many of these roads which forced the truckers back onto the expensive autoroutes.
Coincidentally, they also put a lot of Truck stops, and Cafes Routier out of business. The same will happen here!
Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:16 PM

It's all about maintaining and reinforcing a class structure(based on money not necessarily social. charge everyone the same but those with lots of money wont care overmuch because they will add it to the purchase price of goods in whatever business they own,run or have shares in.it's also handy if you can afford an accountant to offset it somewhere along the way. this will be passed down the line to those of us who wouldn't be able to afford all this extra tax in the first place and make no mistake they wont reduce sod all!
As a driver of one of these TERRIBLE 4x4's I would also ask the people who are very busy condeming 4x4's to think about the future. The future when there are no 4x4's. The future when after a power cut in the middle of winter brings down power lines ( funnily enough the electricity supply people use 4x4's to get to places where the lines are down). The future where, after a natural disaster, the Smart car isn't able to bring aid. The future where the roads are clogged by idiots driving at 80 mph in the fast lane of a motorway with his mobile stuck to ther ears. The future where MP's are still being driven in Jaguars. The future where 2 lorries block roads whilst one passes the other using an extra 1mph to do it.The future where no one has any personal choice. Sorry the last 2 sentences are now!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 02:30 PM

Er....yes, Chris. Electricity company workers, farmers, water company employees etc. do need to use 4-wheel drives, for obvious reasons.

Are they in any way related to the mothers who drive their offspring half a mile to school in them or others who use them permanently on well-paved roads? Or have those that drive them spent all that extra money wisely, planning ahead for the one day in every few years that they might get stuck in the snow?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 02:35 PM

Well the sales of 4x4s has been dropping steadily for some months in the UK. I think they should make all 4x4s cost less than £5000, that will immediately remove their snob value, which will reduce sales even further.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 06:29 PM

A simple way to reduce congestion is to raise the legal driving age to 25 years. People aged under that limit already driving would be allowed to continue driving. That way, all existing drivers would have an interest in agreeing to it, and the only people disadvantaged would be those who have yet to pass their test - they will just have to wait longer, and will have more time to save up for a decent car instead of running up massive credit card bills.

If 25 proves not to be enough, make it 30 (and so on...). It would take a few years to have the desired effect, but the sooner the government does it, the better.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 09:26 PM

SCRUMP - Yo Boy! U got it nailed!!!

Also - stop all driving at age 55. 30 years is enough for anyone to drive. It will help redefine the family unit. Parents drive children until age 25....Children drive parents after age 55.

Good for the roads...good for Kyoto...good for declining birth-rates in developed countries...good for public transit...good for property values in the urban areas...good for cab-drivers...good for local economies...good for migrant labor...good for hospices...good for euthenasia...good for solient-green.....Ummmm tastey / pastey solution....

Why do all good things originate in the UK?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 03:54 AM

melodeonboy you're missing the point a bit. If we reduce the demand for 4x4's there wont be any produced (basic supply and demand). That is going to make it a bit difficult for 'essential' users to buy them. That is when the problems will arise (I seem to remember during one of the snow falls on one of the southern moors that 4x4's were the only vehicles to get anywhere (helping stranded idiots in 'normal' cars who had got stuck) I feel, that with the current attitude to 4x4's, somewhat less likely to help anyone stuck in bad conditions (just in case they are a supporter of 'ban the 4x4). Having driven in London I can understand why women might want the extra vision and protection offered by a 4x4. I certainly would (better still a tank). Freedom of choice is no little thing! I hear we are now to be dosed with folic acid, whether we like it or not (along with fluoride (some industry's waste product). I happen to be male and 60 and unless they come up with some seriously life changing event then I don't see the need to dose me to protect babies!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 04:15 AM

Growing up on a farm in Kent in the 50s and 60s (long before the current "demand" for 4-wheel drives), I remember that the farm owner had a 4-wheel drive Land Rover. Even if the demand is greatly reduced, they'll still be made.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 04:23 AM

Well, Gargoyle, 55 is not so old these days (at least I hope not, and I guess I'm biased, as I'm - ahem - not that far off that age group myself). But I would support an upper age limit, perhaps more like 80 than 55 though. I believe in the UK drivers have to have certain tests done after age 70 (eyesight, etc.? I don't know the details) - maybe these tests could be more comprehensive, and equivalent to a full driving test. Not sure it would be popular with older folk, but then none of these suggestions are popular with everyone.

As for the 4x4 issue raised by Guest,chris above - many 4x4s are aimed squarely at the yuppie market and would never be considered by a farmer or other 'essential' user, as they would be useless for working purposes. How did the likes of Land Rover manage before these vehicles became 'trendy' or 'cool' or whatever they call it these days? Obviously not all of them will survive, only the best will - but that's a good thing.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 05:37 AM

What is it about Fluoride that really gets peoples goat? Don't you like your teeth. Besides, last time I checked we were all being heavily dosed by all this waste Oxygen the farmers are putting out.....

If 4x4s come without leather seats, the power steering is a bigger wheel, and climate control is replaced with smell of sheep, then they would be somewhat less fashionable. Does it show I've driven old land-rovers round farms?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 06:40 AM

Land Rover are owned by Ford. No profit = no production =
no jobs for the few car workers left.This means more unemployed with increased taxes to pay them-not their fault but not only the environment to pay for but more unemployment benefit. Why should we, in UK, pay for the environment no one else seems to. We seem to take on board all the stupidity of the EU. Do any of the other members?
And I still resent the impact on choice. By the way I humbly apologise to all in the UK. I admit that I voted Labour all my voting life. I WONT DO IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 07:14 AM

I agree with the point about freedom of choice, and the futility of the UK doing anything in the absence of multilateral action from other countries.

But this is all about taxation and control, not the environment. This is what we have come to expect from the government - cynical exploitation of the electorate and increased intrusion into people's everyday lives.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: danensis
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 04:46 PM

Can someone explain why growth is good and recession bad? It seems to me a lot of the people driving around our roads are going to try and sell things that people don't really need. I'd be happy to pay a few quid more for a car that lasts me twenty years instead of ten, or a fridge that lasts twenty years instead of ten.

Anyone remember the Lucas shop stewards proposals, where they wanted to stop making armaments and make kidney machines instead?

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 04:05 AM

buy a Land Rover mine's done 100000+ miles and I expect to get at least 100000+ more. It's 11 years old.It is likely to last a lot longer than most modern, so called, 'environmentally sound' cars. It is also likely to have a better carbon footprint. The Prius, apparently, has a worse carbon footprint than a new Land Rover Discovery (something to do with electric motors and batteries) Things aren't, always, as obvious as they seem. I also think to many people rely on other people to tell them what to think about green issues and don't bother to check for themselves! People and organisations have their own agendas!

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: eddie1
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 12:46 AM

Got this e-mail from my daughter.

Road tax - Government petition

This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on privacy ever proposed in this Country!

No apologies for sending this on...This may not interest you and if it doesn't please simply delete it - if you're a motorist, read on ...

It was stated on the news (27th November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal has been suggested was to raise money for possible road building and improvements to existing roads. It should be noted that of all the money currently collected by the DVLA for road fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent on road building and improvements!

The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it.
The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign
the petition on No 10's new website, sign up here

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/ <
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

Even if you dont have a car please feel free to forward this e-mail on.

Eddie

Incidentally, at a festival I was asked by a Friends of the Earth member to sign a petition to ban 4x4s. I declined as I drove a 4x4. He then asked why I needed one and I replied, "To tow a dragster!" End of conversation.
My car is a Vauzhall Frontera, 2.5 litre diesel. On motorway journeys I get 42 mpg.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 04:23 AM

I couldn't help noticing the marked similarity between contributor "eddie1" and TV presenter (and professional prat!), Jeremy Clarkson.

Are they in any way related?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 04:28 AM

you might want to look on greenpeace site and admire their fleet of ocean going ships! I suspect that I could run my land rover for a lot of years on the fuel consumption and exhaust emmissions that the fleet has on the environment. I support a lot of Greenpeace principles but not the hypocracy that condemns my car yet causes the significant damage to the environment by their fleet. It's a bit of do as I say not as I do.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:19 AM

If Jeremy Clarkson is such a pratt, why is he so popular?
We like him in this house, and think he is a good and amusing presenter.Some of the stunts on Top Gear are a bit silly I admit, but it's mostly the BBC chasing good viewing figures and not Clarkson himself to blame for that.
It's like those people who balme Maggie Thatcher for all the ills of the 70s, she wasn't alone and unaided in her pursuit of private enterprise.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:30 AM

Since when have prattishness and popularity been mutually exclusive?

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:33 AM

Well pratts are not popular in my house, while Clarkson is.
Smart answers don't change facts you know!
G.¦¬]

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:51 AM

I won't be drawn on the prattishness or otherwise of Mr Clarkson, but do I deduce from melodeonboy's remark that he is in favour of the government's proposed mileage charges for motorists, and the intrusion into people's lives that will inevitably result, should this proposal go ahead?

I'm not in favour for the reasons stated above - the congestion on our roads could be reduced by:

- increasing fuel tax
- introducing road tolls for bottlenecks (e.g. M25 in peak times)
- raising the minimum driving age to 25
- introducing a maximum driving age, or at least a retest at (say) 80

Another factor is that the population is increasing due to immigration (legal or otherwise) - the government seems to overlook the fact that the pressure on roads is increasing in proportion to the population rising, just as it is on housing and other infrastructure (schools, hospitals, trains, water, etc.), especially in urban areas (and the south-east in particular). Maybe immigrants could have to wait a year before being allowed a licence, or something? Not sure of the implications of this - there's probably some EU agreement that would make this impossible.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 02:36 PM

I think this thread should be below the line - it's not really about music at all!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:03 PM

THe online petition against the invasive monitoring proposal is the pack leader there by a street.

Incidentally, I have been saying for about 10 years that when you take the energy costs of manufacture and disposal into account a land rover is quite environmentally friendly, but I don't need a 4x4 at the moment so I haven't got one. The idiots who use one to go no further off road than Sainsbury's car park are the on-road problem. Oh, and things like Porsche Cayennes which are about as much use off-road as a push bike to a pike.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 05:09 PM

Who's going to what festivals next year, and how are they getting there. If by their own transport it would be interesting if they compared it with public transport costs as a feasability study.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 07:47 PM

I don't think the absence of punters dragging along the level of kit Bill Sables has in his ceilidh band is going to break any festival. Less than one in a thousand will bring any piece of musical equipment heavier than an accordion case.

As I understand it, Martin Carthy has conducted his entire career by public transport.

PA kit can always be sourced locally. The only folks with a problem are those who play something very big and exotic, like a taiko band or a gamelan. Special cases that rare can be dealt with by special exemptions.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 11:58 PM

What a delightful day - when RainBowI was destroyed - you can "F" only so long before the French awaken from their passive drowze and retaliate. The issue was "transport of spent nuclear fuel." Unable to coherantly define their issue - Green Pease waffles - one would think they share kindred wellings from the UK.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 04:30 AM

You're getting less coherent there my little regular Mudcat troll!
G.
G.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 05:17 AM

Good question, Giok.

BROADSTAIRS:

Probably camping for a few days. For this I'll take the car with instruments and tent and assorted clothes/junk etc.

For extra days as a "day visitor", I'll probably take the train, with or without melodeon.

Cost by car: £8 - £9 on fuel.
Cost by train: (With Network Railcard): £10 (minimum charge) on weekdays, £7 - £8 at the weekend (+possible bus fare to the station, depending on weather).


TENTERDEN:

Last year I went by car as the camp site was out of town. This year I only had time to go for the day. As the camp site is back in the town now, I may go by bus next year.

Cost by car: £8 on fuel
Cost by bus: (Two "Rover tickets"): About £11

OXFORD:

I went by train last year. As a steward, I was given free indoor camping (therefore, no tent!).

Next year, I'll probably do the same. The bus services in Oxford appear, in my limited experience, to be very good. They are frequent and they run late.

Cost by car: £24 on fuel
Cost by train and bus: Unknown but definitely more than £24, even with railcard.


ROCHESTER SWEEPS:

I go by foot and train or bus and train.

Cost by car: £3 on fuel + parking
Cost by train: Approx £4 (plus £1.50 if including bus fare) + a possible £4 for taxi (depending on weather/level of inebriation etc.!).

TOWERSEY:

I went by car last year and may well do the same next year. I'm not sure of the public transport options. I didn't see any buses when I was there.

Cost by car: £20 in fuel
Cost by public transport: Unknown but definitely a lot more than £20.


If it were easier to get information on rail fares, I could have been a little more informative, but they are not easy to find.

My rough and ready calculations are based on one person travelling. It's likely that I'll be travelling with other people to at least some of the festivals; in theses cases, travelling by car would obviously be a lot cheaper.

I hope this has been of some help. I'll be interested to see other people's info.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 06:40 AM

If you go by publc transport, the tendency is to drink more beer, which increases teh cost...

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 06:40 AM

melodeonboy, are we to assume you got your car free, it doesn't depreciate, it costs nothing to insure, it never needs maintenance and you have an unlimited supply of free parking spaces?

Fuel is a very small part of most people's car costs.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 07:15 AM

No, don't make any untoward assumptions, Jack!

I thought Giok's question related to transport costs extra to the general running costs which the driver would pay anyway whether he went to festivals or not, i.e. primarily fuel. Surely this is the focus of what's under discussion. With the possible exception of performers, those who drive to festivals already own their cars for other reasons, so the overheads would be paid anyway whether they went by car or other means.

But if you really want to know:

My car cost £650 about 18 months ago and is probably still worth nearly that, so depreciation is minimal.

I pay something in the region of £250 p.a. in insurance.

Maintenance costs have, thankfully, been quite low (by luck more than judgement!).

I don't usually pay for parking at festivals. You'd have to pay at Rochester, which I've already pointed out. If you mean parking at home: no, I don't pay for it. If I intend to spend a long time in any of the nearby towns, I generally travel by public transport, so I don't spend a lot on parking. In Sittingbourne it's free for 20 minute stays or 30p if I want to stay for half an hour.

As for your last sentence: in my case, fuel is more than a very small part of my motoring costs; it's a significant part.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 08:36 AM

We camp at most of the festivals we go to, so we have a tent plus all the camping gear (inflatable beds, sleeping bags, stove, cutlery/plates etc., lights,...), then there are the instruments (two guitars would be the minimum), the song/music folders, and other assorted bits and pieces, and clothing, footwear,...

I can't see it would be easy to take that lot by public transport and would probably have to give up going to many festivals if the government made it too difficult or expensive to travel by car. I would probably just have to cut down on the number of festivals I go to, and cough up the mileage charge for the rest.

Even if not camping, carrying a couple of guitars plus a bag with clothing, shoes, music etc. (assuming I could get it all in the same bag) would be difficult by train or bus. And cabs would be too expensive for anything other than short journeys.

But I find it difficult to believe that the government would be able to to get this proposal (mileage charge) agreed. It would be electoral suicide, in spite of what the green lobby might say.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 10:03 AM

Also, I forgot to add, when camping the car provides a bit more security than just leaving stuff in a tent, so without that I would probably feel obliged to carry a lot of stuff around that I would normally leave in the locked boot (trunk).

Yes, I know all folkies are honest! :-)

But thefts from tents are not unknown (and I know cars are not that secure, but I still feel happier with stuff locked out of sight in there, than just left lying around in a tent).

Just another reason to consider when weighing up the car v public transport options.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 02:02 PM

Things being massivley unpopular don't stop the Goverment doing them, it simply stops them mentioning it in any manifesto.

See Iraq or ID cards as proof. Or Network rail, or the Poll tax. The current lot are no worse in this respect than any other...

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 02:03 PM

How soon the faithfull discover that socialism is the enemy of personal freedom!
G.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 04:45 PM

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand the intended link between the last two posts, i.e. "this government" and "socialism".

By the way, Scrump, that's a valid point you make about security of instruments at festivals. I'm also much more concerned about leaving my instruments in the tent than in the car.

Subject: RE: Folklore: UK Charge per mile = end of Fests?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 08:19 PM

100