Lyr Add: Roots (Show of Hands)

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 05:57 AM

Ooerr, folkies are expected to sing to correct pitch to the nearest Hz now then? Should all those old blokes with Aran sweaters carry tuners tround their necks? :-)

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 05:20 AM

You need to see harriWattsband - they are allways spot on to the nearest Hz......

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 04:11 AM

Compared to the frequency it ought to have been at. Steve Knightley's own estimation was that it was a tone flat. I heard it at slightly less. Whatever. The pitch was quite a few Hz adrift and the effect was not so much microtonal, more an unpeasant dirge.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Spot
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 04:04 AM

Allo everybody...

                  Original question was "do you like it?"

                  

                  No

                  Regards to all....Spot

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 04:00 AM

I heard Routes or Roots or whatever it's called coming over at almost a whole tone flat.

Compared to what, may I ask? I'm not sure what you mean.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 03:48 AM

"Barry Lister, jolly fine chap though he is, is not a source for Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy. It's from the Copper Family songbook, as printed in A Song For Every Season "

Exactly - I was wondering why they'd credit Barry Lister for it as well. Particularly as it's hardly an obscure song - everybody and their dog has sung it at some point. My dog's rendition was particularly fine, as it happens. Did they really need Barry Lister to teach them one of the most well-known songs in the English canon?

Before I get the "Oi! You leave Barry Lister alone!" Which results when any mere mortal even mentions someone that Lizzie has "discovered" and thereby claims possession of, I would add that I am particularly fond of his version of another Copper family classic, Thousands or More. Though my favourite version of that song is actually sung by my friend Katy:

"Time passes over more pleasant and gay
Since we learned a new act to drive Saul Rose away..."

Try it. Sheer brilliance, and especially funny if Mr Rose happens to be in the room.

I won't bother wearily adding that this is meant to cast no nasturtiums on the excellent Mr Rose, as Lizzie only leaps to screeching and unwarranted defense of people she's actually heard of.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 03:25 AM

I learned a couple of tunes off Phil Beer's Rhythm Methodist, as it goes. I wrote them down and played them till I could, as I would with anything before playing it out. And I'm not standing up and taking money for it. How do you learn tunes, Mrs Route?

So what can you possibly mean by SoH's twiddly bits? Is it all backing tracks and MIDI-programming? Pity they haven't figured out how to operate it then. I heard Routes or Roots or whatever it's called coming over at almost a whole tone flat.

Barry Lister, jolly fine chap though he is, is not a source for Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy. It's from the Copper Family songbook, as printed in A Song For Every Season

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:24 PM

Forgot to tell you their name!!! They are TFA....or Traditonal Folkin' About!!!! Sometimes as many as 15 musos folkin' about on stage!!! For FREE!!!! Feed them and they'll be happy bunnies!!! Esp if you offer BROWNIES!!!! Brownies are just so,.....Um, TRAD, for musos, you know??

So, support the TFA wherever you find them!!!! We don't have a festival or a route number, but we have a PO box! You could send fan mail and suggestions there!!!! They don't have an agent at this time either but they are counting on a route to that soon so that they may hit the BIG TIME!!! Maybe even in the Sacred Isle of Albion!!! Where ALL is just sooo hunky dory in Sidmouth!!! They are waiting with bated breath to be invited!!!

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:09 PM

I MUST tell you all about this SUPER TRAD band in the Back Of Beyond USA. They are just SO wonderful you wouldn't believe it!!! Soooo trad it's unbelievable!!! :O) Just because they also play a little bit of Charlie Pride, Roaring '20's or blues doesn't mean they aren't TRAD!!!!

I mean geeze, these guys can get it on down with Soldiers Joy, Brighton Camp, Chicken Reel, Angeline the Baker...OH MY GOODNESS!! they are just soooo good, you must all travel here to hear them!!!

Of course they also play some crap stuff like schmaltzy Stephen Foster, Danny Boy, Irish Eyes, but hey, they are TRAD to the bone!!!

Come on over Mrs Route, and give us a lift!!! They already play for FREE so how much lower can it get for them?????

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 05:26 PM

From Diane:

>>>Barry Lister had been an integral part of Sidmouth for several decades before Lizzie "Mrs Route" Cornish emerged from the depths of Pinner and "discovered" SoH, a band which (as any fule kno) doesn't actually bother to tune up. Pity, cos Phil Beer used to be a very fine trad musician once upon a time and easily could be again. Then. last year, she "discovered" poor Mr Lister but she'll surely move on to the next "boysie band" some time soon. Or so he hopes . . .<<<

Oi! You leave Barry Lister alone! He's The New Seth Lakeman :0)...And he taught Show of Hands 'Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy'...and they always give him credit for it every time they sing it....and Barry knows that too.

And Show of Hands er...don't have to tune up....everything's already IN tune and they got all those special twiddly bits that ensure they stay that way too....They've made 'NOT having to tune up' into an art!

And as for your comments on Phil...well...there's a fine thing, coming from someone who openly admits they can't take their eyes away from staring at music whilst playing....

er...perhaps Phil might give you lessons Sweetums...but then again....


;0)

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: GUEST,Moaning Minnie
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 01:15 PM

....Over-paid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk
Of the way we look and the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
How will we know where weve come from?
I've lost St George in the Union Jack
It's my flag too and I want it back.." (taken from 'Roots' by Steve Knightley"

Nowt wrong with the way Steve's put that to me Keith. Estuary English IS taking over from local accents, particuarly in The West Country. In my opinion, it's entirely driven by the media...and we need to go back to simply being 'ourselves' and being proud and happy to be ourselves too, wherever we come from, whatever our accent may be.

'tis an irony that these sentiments are brought to us with a sound that is heavily influenced by American musical culture.

Mr Knightley and Mr Beer. Please go and listen to the "Voice of the People", absorb your musical heritage and come out blazing.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 10:38 AM

Barry Lister had been an integral part of Sidmouth for several decades before Lizzie "Mrs Route" Cornish emerged from the depths of Pinner and "discovered" SoH, a band which (as any fule kno) doesn't actually bother to tune up. Pity, cos Phil Beer used to be a very fine trad musician once upon a time and easily could be again. Then. last year, she "discovered" poor Mr Lister but she'll surely move on to the next "boysie band" some time soon. Or so he hopes . . .

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:58 AM

Some of an Irishman's observations on the English and their speech, translated into verse by a couple of Americans as it so happens.

http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/whycantt.htm

And I will say again, most of those variants remarked upon by George Bernard Shaw approximately 100 years ago are alive and well, even in the West Country, if I believe the evidence of my own ears.

As to whether Pygmalion is more accessible in its original, or passing to and fro across the Atlantic so that I first heard it in the voices of Rex Harrison and Julie Andrews rather than Leslie Howard and Wendy Hiller I know not. I suspect that My Fair Lady did make my later study of the original play easier. Best bit of English "homework" I ever got was "go home and watch the 1938 film on TV tonight" though!

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:37 AM

Well, it would have done if you hadn't posted that.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:19 AM

Oh crap. I was hoping this had fallen off the bottom.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Alec
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:09 AM

Traditional,revival & contemporary music are alive and well and being extremely promiscuous here in the North East.
If the writer wished to limit himself to a problem specific to an area where the influence of Estuary English is increasing he ought to have avoided namechecking locales where it is not.
The song DOES raise some relevant points which his scattergun approach undermines (Please excuse the mixed metaphor)
Agree with you on the Heather Mills point though.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 08:45 AM

From Keith

>>>Steve Knightley is making a point more about the spread of the use of Estuary English than at its native speakers. However, the way he has phrased his lyric doesn't make it that obvious. I've seen and heard several very adverse reactions to that line in various places to realise that it can be taken the wrong way.<<<


"....Over-paid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk
Of the way we look and the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
How will we know where weve come from?
I've lost St George in the Union Jack
It's my flag too and I want it back.." (taken from 'Roots' by Steve Knightley"


Nowt wrong with the way Steve's put that to me Keith. Estuary English IS taking over from local accents, particuarly in The West Country. In my opinion, it's entirely driven by the media...and we need to go back to simply being 'ourselves' and being proud and happy to be ourselves too, wherever we come from, whatever our accent may be.

And as for those 'soccer oiks'.....GEEZ! Don't even get me STARTED on them! £5 million every WEEK for the next 5 years for Beckham???????

And these are the new 'heroes' for our kids??????

Have we lost the plot or what????? Kind of fits in with Pete Morton's song 'Corruption Country' that I'm listening to today on my page...


From Ginger:

>>>SOH are not exemplars of English traditonal music, any more than is Ralp McTell or Cat frigging Stevens.
I love English traditional music. I don't like SOH. Having them as ambassadors for English traditional music sits about as comfortably as having the Little Chef chain promoting British regional cooking. They are to traditional music what Heather Mills is to tap-dancing.
You stick with your plastic pop and I'll stick to my traditional stuff, and I'm sure our paths will never cross.


I LOVE some English traditional music and I also LOVE the music of Show of Hands, both their acoustic, their folk, their roots and their traditional.   

Show of Hands play MUSIC Ginger...they do not and never have claimed to ONLY play traditional music, although they do indeed play some traditional songs..and they play them damn well too, without having to put on arran sweaters or stick their fingers in their ears or tune up for hours....neither do they forget the words or sing 58 verses!

Bloody hell...next you'll be telling me that John Tams doesn't play traditional music either! And just SO don't start insulting John...OK Ginge?

AND if being an English 'traddie' means that I'll end up like you, thinking I know better than anyone else or dividing music off, putting walls around it and making it exclusive to 'the strange ones' then so help me!

AND...as for that highly unpleasant remark about Heather Mills..that was way out of order in my book..way out!

Give me the welcoming world of Show of Hands, the gentle world of John Tams or the exciting world of Seth Lakeman any day, over the twisted, narrow, selective, ostracising, smug, snotty-nosed and dictatorial world of some of the people in here who consider themselves to be English Traditionalists...anyday!

And now...if it's OK with them and even if it's not...I'm off to listen to Barry Lister's brilliant 'Ghosts And Greasepaint'....because Barry and his mates could probably knock spots of most of the Moaning Minnies in here, with their wonderful voices and arrangements of traditional songs...

So stick that up your arran sweaters! ;0)

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:54 AM

Steve Knightley is making a point more about the spread of the use of Estuary English than at its native speakers. However, the way he has phrased his lyric doesn't make it that obvious. I've seen and heard several very adverse reactions to that line in various places to realise that it can be taken the wrong way.

From my own travels around England, regional accents are alive and well. However, we live in a world where it is much easier to hear other accents regularly than it was 100 years ago, and people do pick up influences. Of course there is a huge reservoir of speakers of an English originally based on West Country pronnunciation to be found about 3000 miles to the west of Sidmouth, but if you were to follow "Roots" literally as if were some sort of manifesto and shut out transatlantic influence you wouldn't hear it. "Roots" however isn't supposed to be taken literally. It is just a song that is supposed to make you think about the issues it raises. If it makes more people read Billy Bragg's rather deeper treatment in his recent book "The Progressive Patriot", so much the better. However, that takes a lot longer than listening to a performance of "Roots", which I clocked at just under 5 minutes on Johnnie Walker the other night. "English, Half-English" will however give you the other half of the argument summarised in about 5 minutes as well.

My solution to the dilema of anyone finding they or theirs have started to talk as if they come from the South East when they don't is to cut down on the intake of Eastenders (other sources of Estuary and Cockney are available) and increase the dosage of the likes of Corrie, "Hollyoaks", "Friends" and "The West Wing". "Skins" Bristol setting might prove a source of vagely West Country role models sas well. Adding more Dylan, Springsteen, Simon, Earle into the listening mix might also help redress balance too. There are a lot of advantages to being able to access a huge amount and variety of songs (and films) in English if you want to take the positive and not just look at the negative impact of the Globalisation of the English language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary_English

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Stu
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:20 AM

We have Mummers that come around our local session. They're excellent.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Mr Fox
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:48 AM

"Mr. Fox...the whole point your missing is that YOU speak in your local accent and are proud of it...which is wonderful! But there is NO DEVON ACCENT among our young people down here...because they nearly all speak Estuary English..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They don't, you know. They speak 'mockney' or 'Ali G'. For myself, I speak south London with an overlay of north Kent and (thanks to a granddad from Tiptree) hints of rural Essex.

As an accent, 'Estuary' exists about as much as 'American', which is to say not at all - or as a huge and hideous generalisation – and how would you like it if I lumped all West Country accents together as 'BBC Mummerset'?

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Surreysinger
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 06:40 PM

I thought Aramis was an aftershave myself.... although I believe that Dumas' character may have buckled his swash more than a little?

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: breezy
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 04:24 PM

Its a very good song an appealing tune and arrangement , but a bugger to sing.

I thoght aramis was a deoderant

talking of rants

pray continue , but ease up with the profanities please.

all ye self opinionated pompous lot

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:25 PM

Let's ask again: what are you doing to promote, proliferate and defend English culture, Lizzie? In real life - out there. I'd be ever so interested to know. If Show of hands' message is important because it makes people DO things, what are you doing?

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:19 PM

The Taylor sisters were clog dancing in Lichfield as kids, before Riverdance ever appeared on Eurovision. I know - I was there. They come from a family who are rooted in tradition - they had mates who were English dancers, too.

Damien would laugh heartily at me taking the piss out of Michael Flatley, as long as I continue to genuflect at the shrine of Bellamy.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:26 AM

Captain Ginger....having fought this battle for 10 years now..(just on Mudcat...longer before that), I welcome the help, but we are outnumbered.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:25 AM

The Taylor sisters who dance with The Demon Barber Road Show perform a form of English step which has no relationship whatsoever to Irish dance. Whether they might have been initially inspired to take up dancing is another matter. However, Mrs Route has no concept of what the English tradition comprises, nor does she have any compulsion to find out.

As for Ewan MacColl, just read innumerable threads and references passim. What happened at the Singers' was a decision of the entire membership.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:19 AM

SOH are not exemplars of English traditonal music, any more than is Ralp McTell or Cat frigging Stevens.
I love English traditional music. I don't like SOH. Having them as ambassadors for English traditional music sits about as comfortably as having the Little Chef chain promoting British regional cooking. They are to traditional music what Heather Mills is to tap-dancing.
You stick with your plastic pop and I'll stick to my traditional stuff, and I'm sure our paths will never cross.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM

Hang on...er..isn't Ruth..er Joan?

Or is Joan..er.....Ruth...

And nope...I've no idea if you're friends with Damien Barber. It would have been nice though if you'd thought about that before pouring scorn on Riverdance though....as some of his dancers were inspired by Michael Flatley.

What I find so deeply strange though is this ganging up and bullying that is so strong in the English Traditional world.

It is, thank goodness, only a few people who are like it, but WHY have you all been drawn in by English Traditional music?

Is it something to do with Ewan MacColl and the rules and regulations he set so long ago? Are you all unable to let go of those attitudes?

It's all most odd!

Still....as I said earlier...Thank Heavens for people like Steve and Phil who cut right through you lot and are welcoming, supportive, kind, humourous and anything but unpleasant!

Long Live Show of Hands!

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:59 AM

Oh God I've been outed!!
Bugger....
I'm so upset.
Yes it was indeed me playing for a small number of ordinary people, who have no connection with trad music. It seems to have been a good night for all concerned.......But
Do you know what? None of them had ever heard of Seth Lakeman, or Show of Hands. Or Martin Carthy, Kate Rusby, Uncle Tom Cobbley et al....
And also, they didn't want to know about any of them either.
Thats the great British public for you!!!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
The number of people on this board is tiny.
SOH might have 6 or 7 thousand fans......sorry, that doesn't change my world......Even the new leader of the Tory party is doing better, and even he doesn't look like winning!!

Interesting thought....

SOH votes are on a par with the BNP.....Mmmmmmmmmm.

No hint of Racism then.

(Any chance of letting the rest of England into this debate, or do we all have to have a white face, and a West country accent??)

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:53 AM

Outed? I think most people here know the story of Young Hunting and how I got my name and why it's funny. Those who don't should perhaps not be here but still be confined to the vaguely folk-tinged Devon popsters' nursery class. It's really difficult to imagine why or how Mrs Route keeps up her risible tirade against The English Tradition which she would fail to recognise even if it leapt up and bit her on the arse. If plastic shamrock and mass-produced tartan biscuit tins are her bag she'd possibly find them in the English Heritage shop alongside BNP-endorsed CDs.

I'll leave Athos and Aramis to speak for themselves, Oh, Aramis already has. Like Ruth, I too got a crazed MySpace message in which Mrs Route told me all about her pretendy cyber affair with Sam, to which I was unwise enough to reply. I declined her oiffer to be a MySpace 'friend' because I have only those I actually know in real life on my site.

Porthos

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: AlexB
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:53 AM

snogwriters? Sorry, it may have been unintentional, but it just struck me as funny.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:47 AM

Hey, what about me? Can't I be outed too?

Honestly, though, there is a theme runnng through the blather. Plastic pop music, anodyne snigger-snogwriters, an idealised Laura Ashley Albionised England - the whole thing's just a pastiche. It's about as real as the stick-on leaded lights on the uPVC windows of modern houses, or the fake beams of a Harvester restaurant.
Lizzie - the real England is out there. It's messy, untidy and resists being pigeonholed into the tweeness you seem to love, but get involved and discover a passion for the real, not the fake.
Go out and sample it. You'll find that England doesn't smell of roses; it also has slurry pits and foundry floors. And yes, it has its yobs and yahoos, but it also has decent people who are trying to make a difference and who want to build a future, not take us back to a past.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:35 AM

Being banned from your myspace page, Lizzie, would mean me having to visit it. I sent you one message, once, to clarify some points in a less public way, and you replied with a long and quite psychiologically unstable tirade, before "banning" me from sending you messages. Well, as I had never even vistited your myspace before that - you were the one who found me and sent me a friend request, if you remember - I have hardly been losing sleep.

I, on the other hand, am not banned from the BBC website. Funnily enough, you are. What do you make of that, then?

I have never kept my identity secret here, Lizzie. Everyone here who wants to knows who I am. You, on the other hand, hide behind what you suppose to be your anonymity, and hysterically complain to moderators to have your real name removed every time it's mentioned. Now, why would that be? Perhaps largely because you indulge in behaviour on the internet that you know would cause upset and embarrassment to your family if they knew the extent of what you were up to.

I suggest you start using your real name, Mrs Route. You'll find that, without the cloak of anonymity, you will do fewer things about which you may feel embarrassed later. Or at least you might begin to conduct yourself with a modicum of propriety and discretion, and cause less embarrassment to your poor husband.

You don't need to tell me about the Demons, as you well know. Damien is a friend of mine, and I have done plenty to promote their work, and other aspects of folk and traditional music and dance, in schools and the community. I'm working with several other organisations and artists as well, on a completely voluntary basis, because I want to help where I can. In other words, I'm not sitting here screeching like a looney on the net - I'm actually doing something.

What are you doing, Lizzie?

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:32 AM

Ooooo, now we're outing people. Is that a personal attack too? Keep taking the meds, Mrs. Route.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:19 AM

"I met a girl who sang the blues
And I asked her for some happy news,
But she just smiled and turned away.
I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before,
But the man there said the music wouldn't play.

And in the streets: the children screamed,
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed.
But not a word was spoken;
The church bells all were broken.
And the three men I admire most:
The father, son, and the holy ghost,
They caught the last train for the coast
The day the music died"

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:16 AM

"And now...back to 'Roots' and Show of Hands..."

I'm sticking with Don McLean singing "American Pie" on his 1975 solo album (which was recorded on UK gigs). I still prefer that song. The poetry is better even if the exact events the lyrics reference are a bit obscure in places.

I'm even thinking of moving back from received pronunciation to my native estuary English in protest too...

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 10:04 AM

>>>I'd take the completely organic and heartfelt enjoyment of Sunday night over the Plastic-Paddy whooping and Father Ted-style Riverdancing that passes for atmosphere in most "Oirish" pubs any day.<<<<


Actually, I hate to say this, but as some of you lot are proud to call yourselves English Traditionalists, give me the welcoming Irish and Scots any day.

I've haven't read such a lot of smug, arrogant and spiteful remarks since the BBC board was cleaned up of them all recently.

Sheesh! No wonder English traditional music has been dying on its feet for decades...with you lot in it!

Thank GOD that Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman have come along to put new life into it all! And...thank heavens also for the rest of the young folkies, most of whom are warm, welcoming, have no rules or regulations and don't consider themselves to be better than anyone else!

Oh and Ruth of Loughborough..I'd suggest you take in some of The Demon Barbers clog dancing, next time you've taken your head away from your smug little situpon. I think you'll find, if you read their site, that they were inspired by Riverdance...

The Demon Barbers are also doing brilliant things for English music and dance, for just like Seth and Show of Hands, they're bringing in the young people...and without those young people...English traditional music is in big trouble!


I'd also like to point out to people that the three people on this thread, that is Ralph Jordan, Diane Easby and Joan Crump..otherwise known as Guest, Countess and Ruth Archer have all been banned from attacking me over on my Myspace page, where they also came to pour their vitriol over me.

Methinks they're more than a little miffed! ;0)

And now...back to 'Roots' and Show of Hands...

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM

"In fact it's probably racist. No mention of the other members of our multicultural society"

How can a song be racist for not mentioning someone?

This means both "Dido Bendigo" and "The Fields of Athenry" must be racist too. In fact, so are loads of songs in English.

English - racist bastards!

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 09:39 AM

Who says the English are dull? We were singing (maybe not dancing) all night long on Sunday night - I had the all-day hangover yesterday to prove it. My village pub was ringing to the sound of concertina, guitar and song. We even had an amazing man in called George, who travels with a traditional caravan and horses. It was a delight to meet him - and to hear him singing Kenny Rogers songs! At about midnight the landlady brought out a big spread of food, just because she was so delighted with the atmosphere the music and the singing had created. We rolled out very late indeed.

I feel compelled to point out that, apart from myself and one other member of this parish who was providing the lovely music, none of the people present were folkies. They were just having a great time, and kept saying what a privelege it was to be enjoying such an amazing night.

I'd take the completely organic and heartfelt enjoyment of Sunday night over the Plastic-Paddy whooping and Father Ted-style Riverdancing that passes for atmosphere in most "Oirish" pubs any day.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:42 AM

Stop beating about the bush countess, tell her like it is.

eric

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: GUEST,the count
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:15 AM

I'll second that!

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:31 AM

Lizzie Cornish

On the day when you have actually acquired some knowledge of English music, and indeed, some inkling of social change and multiculturalism, do come back and discuss it with those here who know already.

In the meantime, please do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up. Your interminable rantings are tedious and embarassing.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:23 AM

Mr. Fox...the whole point your missing is that YOU speak in your local accent and are proud of it...which is wonderful! But there is NO DEVON ACCENT among our young people down here...because they nearly all speak Estuary English...


From Guest...who is apparently too cowardly to put his name to all the deeply insulting posts he's posting away at me.

>>>>Lizzie.
Probably best to avoid the Radway at the end of Feb. You might hear some REAL musicians playing REAL music.<<<<

I went there last year Ralph. If you remember, I also wrote on the BBC board how there seemed to be little passion going on in there as well. The music was beautiful, don't get me wrong, but hardly a muscle was moving in that pub...no clapping, no smiling, no whooping, no...JOY!

I compared it to the Irish or the Scots and how they seem able to relax and enjoy their music so much more than the English, who seem so very inhibited about it.

Oh...and if you're getting so bored with me..then WHY are you coming into various threads about Show of Hands?

From Guest once again

>>>In fact it's probably racist. No mention of the other members of our multicultural society. No Afro-Carribeans, Poles, Jews, Turks, Italians, Asians (various) , etc....<<<

Taken from 'Roots' by Steve Knightley

"....After the speeches when the cake's been cut
The disco is over and the bar is shut
At christening, birthday, wedding or wake
What can we sing until the morning breaks?
When the Indian, Asians, Afro, Celts
It's in their blood, below the belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?..."

I'd suggest you first listen to the song, read the lyrics and then understand what's being said.

Thanks....

Lizzie

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Mr Fox
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:06 AM

"Estuary English, baseball caps
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk
Of the way we look and the way we talk"


Excuse me, chum.

I was born and brought up in south London and Kent and speak what you so patronisingly call 'Estuary English' (I've even been known to wear a baseball cap on occasion). That's MY culture - my 'roots', if you like. And no, despite the best efforts of a generation of schoolteachers, I'm not ashamed of it. It's no less valid than Devon.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 02:36 PM

How's Mr Route?

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:06 AM

PS--Hey, Lizzie, how's Sam?

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: breezy
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:41 PM

As I stand and play out and at such venues I believe the song is a true representation of the way it is.

have you seen those 'folkies' in Wells ?

Its similar to some of the 'sessions' that are around that should definitely be behind closed doors.

Anyway perhaps we are too old to be playing and dancing all night long.

Next 'Windward experience' Sunday 18th Feb at the Rose and Crown, St Albans, free adm

yep its a good song, it has substance.

see you countess

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: GUEST,Libbie
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:51 PM

If all the twats who've contributed to this and similar threads are really representative of folkies then maybe the music deserves to die out.

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:49 PM

I meant to type 'the above NO'.

And obviously Roots offers no solution. It's just a whingey old blokes' rant, full of socially divisive whining just like complaining about your neighbours on the grounds that you don't like their cooking, their music, their religion, their colour, their estuary English . . .

Subject: RE: 'Roots' by Show of Hands
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:41 PM

Nowt outrageous about that at all. I think it is.

And of course it offers a solution. The end of the apathy and shame that has surrounded 'Being English' in general, for the last two decades or so...