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Subject: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Blindlemonsteve Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:32 PM Hi everyone, just thinking about a previous thread when someone mentioned Cliff & the Shadows "Move it" as a classic. I think its fair to say that "Move it" was the first British Rock N Roll record, certainly the first record that stood its ground against the American invasion. Well, next year "Move It" will be 50 years old, so effectively British Rock n Roll will be 50 years old. So my question for this thread is,,,,, What would you like to see as a celebration of 50 years of British rock music. Ive had this conversation with some friends, but i would love to hear other peoples views. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:40 PM Tommy Steele was there first but "Move it" was the first British rock 'n' roll song to be sung in an unequivocally English accent. In the closely related field of Skiffle Lonnie Donegan probably inspired more people to take up an instrument than anybody else in postwar British music. For that reason a statue of him would seem appropriate. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:42 PM I'd like to see Rock n roll dead and buried. This repulsive, infantile racket has dominated our culture for too long! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,ian Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:54 PM oh my my,what a blinkered view shimrod has.Does it matter if it was Cliff or whoever gave us something to call british r/roll ?The main thing is it all gave us a feel good factor.Something our parents could not grasp,like all those who came after.just to have something for the young to call there own was the great thing about r/roll.Big leaps in music for good or bad come only now and then.Rock/Roll,Progessive and Punk took music on and moved youth.please give us music that the 40 somethings don't feel on a par with their kids to move us on again,FAST. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: bubblyrat Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:05 PM I remember Cliff ( or Harry,as I like to call him ) having a big hit with " Travelling Light " . This record was released in Spain, but they don"t have any understanding or conception of the idea of travelling without much luggage,or maybe just a toothbrush. The rcord was released in Spain as "The Light That Travels " ----!!! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:08 PM Yes, Cliff's Move It was a classic English rock 'n' roll record. But there were plenty of other artists before him who helped get rock 'n' roll established in Britain, including Terry Dene, Wee Willie Harris, and (as mentioned above) Tommy Steele. Then there were Marty Wilde, and loads of others I forget right now. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Richard Bridge Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:11 PM Billy Fury |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: bubblyrat Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:13 PM I forgot to say ! Err----Ummm---To be honest, I more or less agree with Shimrod ,actually !! I mean, a lot of stuff from the 50s & 60s ,I could put up with, in fact ,some of it was almost memorable, but anything since about 1970 has been utter rubbish !! It"s like rock 'n'roll reached a certain level,& then just came to a grinding halt and has faded away !! And "rap" is positively EVIL !!! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM bubblyrat, are you just talking about rock 'n' roll, or rock/pop in general? Most people would say R 'n' R was primarily 1950s music, and although some people probably still play it today (in bands or on record), since the 1960s it has been replaced by other forms of pop or rock music. Most people wouldn't call the Beatles music Rock 'n' Roll, although they did record some R 'n' R songs (but it was a small percentage of their total output). |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:28 PM Endless Sleep - Marty Wilde 1958 I think I will go and see him at Grimsby in April. He is doing a Born To Rock N Roll Marty Wilde In Concert 50th Anniversary Tour with teh Wildcats and special guests. I just love what Marty did in those days. Wonder if he is as good now, or has he gone like Cliff - sickly. I hope he sticks to R&R |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Murray MacLeod Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:39 PM Cliff Richard and the Shadows - "Move It " |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Les in Chorlton Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:58 PM This is far too serious an issue to be taken quickly or lightly. I must rest and think with a clear head or drink a lot more. But ....... Th Animals? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Bill D Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:13 PM Why are you discussing R and R on a folk music site? Surely there are 100 sites for R & R. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:28 PM Why not Bill We don't have to be blinkered. I run a folk club, but that doesn't stop me being very interested in all other forms of music. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:35 PM Joe Brown, of course. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:52 PM Sticking my neck out: actually, Cliff Richard's slightly later hits Living Doll and Travelling Light were not R&R, but almost folky, being based on a predominantly acoustic guitar arrangement (albeit with subtle electric guitar, bass and drums). Having lit blue touch paper, I shall now retire :D |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Bill D Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:05 PM " I run a folk club, but that doesn't stop me being very interested in all other forms of music." of course...but that is not the issue. I like classical and Dixieland jazz too, but if I want to raise issues about them, I'd go to a site for exactly that. ah, well...I feel like King Canute trying to sweep back the waves. At least I can insert my objections now & then. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 07 Feb 07 - 10:32 PM Apologies for continuing this 'wrong' topic on this site, but THANK YOU for the Blast from the Past - Cliff and the Shads doing Move it ... (who was the fourth Shadow?? I remember Jet Harris, Hank Marvin, Bruce Welch -- oh, yes, was it Tony Meehan?). I LOVED Joe Brown........; and of course there WAS Marty Wilde, The Animals and Billy Fury -- Adam Faith? Oh well, perhaps not??? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alba Date: 07 Feb 07 - 10:35 PM Eh any chance of moving this Thread down to BS so the folks that are enjoying it can continue to discuss it without offending anyone in the Music section...just a thought. Best to All Jude |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:00 PM Rockabilly is a very potent little cult in England at the moment. Something I just stumbled across by accident. The level of musicianship and creativity is very high. As such, it has a lot of potential to make a contribution of importance to English folk music. when a form of music captures the imagination of talented young musicians and writers, there has to be that possibility. Cliff was never really interested in making statements til he got Christianised - his line always seemed to be the latest song that Denmark street came up with for him, and the latest Norrie Paramour arrangement. Nevertheless his songs are known by more English people than any recognised folk songs. Which surely tells the folk song movement - it is getting something wrong, and we need to be learning from different sources. Hank Marvin has to be the one of the most influential musicians of our generation - Cliff was lucky to have a brilliant band like the Shadows. I think they gave him credibility at a point when his choice of songs was so very Denmark Street. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alba Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:08 PM Absolutely Al. Rockabilly and Skiffle both. The cross over from Popular/Folk Music to Rock and Roll in the UK was very different from how it happened in the States. Good to see you Al. Shame about this thread it could have been VERY interesting. Jude |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:11 PM Youtube Video--crank the volume! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Bill D Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:17 PM *wince* ;>) *heading for the hills* |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:20 PM Youtube Video just for Bill D. CRANK THE VOLUME! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Bill D Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:22 PM uhhhh.....impressive Welcome to Mudcat, Peace...*big grin* |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:23 PM Youtube--Juice Newton did it, but Dave did it first! Oh, yeah, crank the volume! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:24 PM LOLOL |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:30 PM Youtube: One can hear the gospel influence here. Not British though. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:30 PM Uh, sorry about the thread drift on that last song. I'll go now. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:52 AM I've seen lots of threads above the line discussing artists and music that would not be considered 'folk', so I don't see why people are objecting to this one. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:10 AM Originally Rock 'n' Roll was a blend of Country music & R 'n' B both of which were local variants of Folk music. Ergo Rock 'n' Roll is a logical entailment of the Folk process Q.E.D. "Preacher in the pulpit,roars with all his might, sings GLORY HALLELUJAH puts folkies all in a fright. Now you might think it's Satan comin' down the aisle, but it's only BILL D,Puttin' on the style." Tongue very much in cheek. :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:17 AM LOL I like it Alec |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM Brucie, correct attitude, my man. It's only rock'n'roll, as they say.Historically speaking the musicians who played on the early (and to-days) British records should be celebrated. Joe Moretti ("Shakin' All Over) had skiffle connections as did a fair few of these sessioneers. Wether they liked playing "pop" music is irrelevant. But bear in mind a history of British Rock'n'Roll should in theory have started with "Rock With The Cavemen") IMO. Celebration ? You would have to include many an anger-inducing name in that. PS I'm off to check out the Peace/Dave Edmunds connection. Rock On !! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Grab Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:31 AM anything since about 1970 has been utter rubbish I liked folk music, but everything since about 1870 has been utter rubbish... Graham. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Stu Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:33 AM I think we should celebrate the unique fusion of rock/blues/folk that is Led Zeppelin - the culmination of all those disparate influences with a healthy wash of whatever 'British' is all over it. It's been a long time since I rock and rolled, It's been a long time since I did the Stroll. Ooh, let me get it back, let me get it back, Let me get it back, baby, where I come from. It's been a long time, been a long time, Been a long lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely time. Yes it has. Yahoo! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:50 AM It's interesting that a couple of people mentioned The Animals above, in the context of R&R. I wouldn't have categorised them that way, as they came later (first 'proper' record not issued until 1964). They were one of the leading bands in the UK 'R&B' boom of the early/mid 1960s. (R&B = Rhythm & Blues, not to be confused with the very different stuff today that uses that same label). I was a great fan of the Animals, Yardbirds, Georgie Fame & The Blue Flames, Downliners Sect and other bands around that time (1964-5). Indeed, the Rolling Stones were in that category in their early days. But I wouldn't have said these were (at least, primarily) R&R bands (although admittedly, the Animals, Yardbirds, Stones and others did record some R&R songs by Chuck Berry, etc.). |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:12 AM I think also when Steeleye Span mention Status Quo as an important influence, there is undeniable cross fertilisation going on between the folkmusic world and that of of rock. My brother in law is a Steeleye fanatic - never misses a concert or a re-issue, or an offshoot cd. he reckons the present line up with Ken Nicol on guitar is the strongest he has ever seen. I'm a great admirer of Ken. It is hard to imagine as any group featuring such a talent as anything other than wonderful, but surely his very eclecticism is the sort of thing some of the contributors to this thread seem to take exception to. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:51 AM Frederic Albert Heath (Johnny Kidd) and the Pirates - please don't touch 1959 The best was 1960 - Shakin All Over pop artist recording folk song Steve Winwood - John Barleycorn >>but surely his very eclecticism is the sort of thing some of the contributors to this thread seem to take exception to<< Unfortunately so Al |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:36 AM Ken Nicol is a great musician and entertainer, even on his own. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:53 AM Think of Tony Sheridan (who started 1958 in "Oh Boy"). Don't know whether he has had a hit in british charts, but he was popular in Germany (My Bonnie...) and played some songs together with the Beatles in Hamburg's Star Club araund 1961, I believe. Today, he lives near Hamburg. Manfred |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:17 AM "bubblyrat, are you just talking about rock 'n' roll, or rock/pop in general? Most people would say R 'n' R was primarily 1950s music, and although some people probably still play it today (in bands or on record), since the 1960s it has been replaced by other forms of pop or rock music. Most people wouldn't call the Beatles music Rock 'n' Roll, although they did record some R 'n' R songs" Isn't it odd? It's OK to to obsess about 'definitions' when discussing Rock n Roll or Rock/Pop or 'Rockabilly-Garage-Grunge-Punk' or whatever stupid racket happens to be fashionable during this particular microsecond - but insist that Folk Music should be played in a Folk Club and then you get told that "there's only music" and anything goes. One rule for Rock fans and another for people who like Folk. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Azizi Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:36 AM Here's a quote from that Mudcat thread whose link Bill D provided: Subject: RE: One best rock song of all time, and why. From: GUEST,Whistle Stop - PM Date: 07 Nov 03 - 01:05 PM I think purism is silly; I can't think of a single important musical development over the ages that grew out of purist thinking. And fretting about whether one should dare to discuss rock music in a folk forum where just about everything gets discussed at one time or another is equally silly... -snip- Speaking for myself, I like reading about this topic. Thanks for starting another thread on British Rock n Roll, Blindlemonsteve. As a result of this thread & the other Bill linked to, I went seaching for threads on Skiffle, since I didn't have a clue what is meant by that word. I found a definition for it in this thread:thread.cfm?threadid=41415#597993 . For the benefit of those who are still on dial-up, I'm going to repost a long quote from that thread, because I think it is relevant to the discussion we are having now. "Subject: RE: BS: One more Bloody Roger th Skiffler thread From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler - PM Date: 23 Nov 01 - 09:16 AM ...and this which I've probably posted before... SKIFFLE WHAT IS SKIFFLE? The term "SKIFFLE" has a variety of meanings but always refers to informal, good time music, usually using home-made or improvised instruments such as the washboard, wash-tub or tea-chest bass, kazoo, cigar-box fiddle, comb and paper etc. Depending on your age and country you might define skiffle as: 1) The spasm bands, usually children, seen on the streets of New Orleans around 1900. 2) Rent-party music in 1920s and 30s USA involving piano, guitar, fiddle, but rarely the washboard. 3) The jug bands of Louisville and Memphis 1920s and 30s. 4) Novelty Jazz Bands of the 1940s and 50s using clarinet/sax mouthpieces on bamboo or wooden pipes, plungerphone, funnel with trumpet mouthpiece, washtub bass etc. 5) A mixture of USA folk music, tin-pan alley, and music-hall played as pop music in Britain in the late 1950s, typically using guitar, washboard and tea-chest bass. Lots of famous British rock stars got started by playing in skiffle bands, e.g. the Beatles, Van Morrison (who made a skiffle CD with Lonnie Donegan in 1999) Although they will probably have never heard of Leadbelly or Woody Guthrie, for a lot of British people over a certain age this music is part of their pop music nostalgia. 6) Current bands playing jug-band, Leadbelly songs etc. or "British" skiffle i.e. songs recorded by British artists in the 1950s, but all generally copying originals thus extending the life of this music 7) Current bands making their own music or adapting popular songs so the music lives and changes The word "SKIFFLE" was probably first used by pianist Hersel Thomas (who died in 1926) to describe the music played at a house rent party (also called "skuffle" music). A record called "Hometown Skiffle" was released in 1929 featuring featuring Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Blake, Will Ezell, Charlie Spand, The Hokum Boys and Papa Charlie Jackson. "SKIFFLE" was later used to describe American black folk bands who mostly had to improvise traditional African instruments by using household implements. The bent sapling with cord tied to a skin over a hole in the earth became the washtub bass. (Tea-chest in UK). The gourd became a jug and the scraped ass's jaw became the washboard. The kazoo developed from an African instrument using an animal skin as the membrane (often built into a mask and used for religious ceremonies)"... -snip- So is skiffle music part of British Rock n Roll? What are some examples of skiffle songs? And are there any Youtube video clips that anyone could recommend to us folks who don't know what skiffle is? And if I was wrong in reposting these comments, I'll take my punishment like a woman :0) But please don't make that punishment be that I have to listen to some forms of American popular music that I hate...I'll not mention any genres or any artists' names less people get any ideas. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:36 AM "obsess"? I was simply asking bubblyrat for clarification on his remark in an earlier posting. I don't think that counts as an obsession, and I don't think many people would. Isn't it odd how some people have to exaggerate or twist things to suit their own view of the universe? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:40 AM The above posting referred to the last one by "GUEST,Shimrod" and not Azizi. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:45 AM We're all folk. It's all music. All music is therefore folk music. Children, stop arguing! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: JeremyC Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:53 AM I think it's fascinating how English rock music and skiffle created the--what was it, the second wave? of the English folk revival. I mean John Renbourn, Bert Jansch, and Martin Carthy, if I'm not mistaken, all were very influenced by skiffle and American blues players like Big Bill Broonzy and Blind Boy Fuller. Besides that, it seems to me that Eric Clapton single-handedly created interest in Robert Johnson. Of course, since the 50s and 60s, rock and folk music have diverged further, but they do come from similar roots. Folk musicians--even the "greats"--don't exist in a vacuum, and I think a truly great musician can learn from any type of music he or she is exposed to. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Grab Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:21 AM Not odd at all, Shimrod - you're simply exposing that you don't know anything at all about the genre. This may be a reason, but not an excuse, for saying "because I don't understand it and don't like it, it's just a stupid racket". For the record... Chuck Berry, the Stones, Led Zep, Rick Wakeman, Aerosmith, Metallica and the Automatic are all recognisably playing rock - and they're all equally recognisably playing in different styles for those who know rock. If you don't recognise the difference, it betrays your unfamiliarity with what to listen for. Old-time, Cape Breton, Irish, English, Scottish and Shetland fiddle players all play in different styles, so some tunes clearly aren't playable in certain styles, and others are played with different phrasing in different traditions. If you don't recognise the differences between the styles and the tunes, it betrays your unfamiliarity with what to listen for. Steve Sun, Mike Mirror and Nick Newsoftheworld would likely class everything with orchestras as "classical" - they wouldn't or couldn't differentiate between baroque, Romantic or modern. If you don't recognise the differences between Bach and Beethoven, say, it betrays your unfamiliarity with what to listen for. This is simply categorisation by similarity of style. Folk *absolutely* does this. Ever been to a tune session, or a singaround? Tried exclusively singing songs in a tune session, or exclusively playing tunes in a singaround? Or to be more specific, ever tried playing Old-timey tunes in an Irish session? Or to diversify a bit, how's about suggesting to a baroque or early-music specialist that you'd like to hear some Gershwin? As for "liking folk", any folk in particular? I like folk in general, but to be more specific, Old-time leaves me cold, and more than a couple of hours of unaccompanied singing tends to leave me jonesing for someone to play an instrument. We all know you don't like singer-songwriter or folk-rock. And here we are categorising by similarity of style again... Graham. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:29 AM Slightly off topic but if I were to compile a list of favourite Rock,Folk & Country performers of my lifetime I would put Roger McGuin on all three lists. Here's a quote from the lad himself from the January editon of Acoustic Magazine (On the subject of influences on his songwriting style.) "...we (The Byrds)were influenced by The Beatles,we wanted to be a band like that,and when I was working with Bobby Darrin,and then in the Brill Building,my job was to listen to the radio,and emulate the songs that were out there.I had already been working on mixing The Beatles music with Folk music in Greenwich Village,and I had noticed that they were using Folk influenced Chords in their music.They used passing chords that were not commmon in Rock 'n' Roll and pop songs at that time.I remember listening to them, and thinking that the Beatles were using folding Chord construction. That comes from their Skiffle roots.They would have learnt those chords during their Skiffle days and brought them into their own writing." This is an expert eyewitness account of how Folk and Rock 'n' Roll drew creatively upon each other from an earlier than a lot of people recognise. Interesting to note as well that McGuinn is talking about 1963 at a point when most Americans were unaware of The Beatles. Though Buddy Holly,Little Richard,Chuck Berry & The Everly Brothers were the people who got The Beatles really interested in contemporary popular music it was Lonnie Donegan that got them playing it & (though they disliked him) Cliff's earliest hits were pretty much de rigeur in the dance halls they played in their dues paying days. As I've said before many little streams have fed the big river that is contemporary Folk. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:32 AM Hi everyone.. Peace, i think we have found even more mutual ground, i love Dave Edmunds, i saw him in Kentish Town in 1987, Gary Moore was his guest appearance, they done Johnny B Goode together,,, wow what a night. There seems to be a lot of bickering about whether or not this thread should be here, but i think its a great discussion.... to me RnR grew up after the 50´s, it stopped being a music type and became something that musicians have in they´re hearts. therefore i think its perfectly possible to play Folk music with a rock n roll heart, it just means your being true to yourself,,,, playing because you love it and you have something to give or something to say, which ever genre you choose, you can still be a rock n roller. Also i know that there was a handful of British stars with record company manufactured songs, or direct American rip offs,,, i.e Tommy Steele, Terry dene, Marty Wilde,,,, But Move it was in a different class, it was written on a bus in 5 minutes by the late Ian Samwell, it was the first British rock n roll song written by the kids for the kids, delivered by a smouldering young man with an astounding band behind him. as a record, it still stands up today with anything that has been before it or after it, its up there with Heartbreak Hotel and Johnny B Goode. The only reason The Beatles were signed is because E.M.I wanted another Cliff and the Shadows... So i put it again,,, this remarkable piece of British music is 50 years old next year,,, what should we do to celebrate what it started.... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:49 AM Just a quickie, i forgot to say, i would like to exclude Billy Fury from the list of wannabees that i stated earlier, he was a class act, anyone heard the album "The Sound of Fury"... a self penned album, recorded in an afternoon,,, Joe Brown on lead guitar, and because there was no one in Britain at the time who could play slap bass, they used 2 bass players, one to play notes, the other to slap the notes... Ive heard it said that if the early "Cliff" was Britains answer to Elvis, then "Billy Fury" was definitely our "Eddie Cochran",,,, and please, dont get me started on him, he was an absolute genius.... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: bubblyrat Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:53 AM Alec,that is all very interesting, in fact fascinating, and thankyou for sharing it with us.! Earlier on, Yes,I did say that I thought anything after 1970 was rubbish, didn"t I !! Perhaps that was a bit over-critical !! But generally,I felt that there was a decline from my PERSONAL point of view. For example, I really liked most of the early Hollies releases, but " He aint Heavy " was dreadful !! Or at least, I thought so !! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:07 AM I think Blindlemonsteve is alsolutely right re 'Move it.' When it was released, I assumed it was American and was amazed to find out that it was British. Early British rock was mainly played by session musicians - remember Don Lang and the Frantic Five or Lord Rockingham's Eleven? I bet Tommy Steel's 'Steelmen' weren't self taught kids but do correct me if I'm wrong! Cliff and the Shadows were, I think, the first genuinely home grown rock group. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:07 AM I agree that Billy Fury and Joe Brown were talented. I mentioned the other artists (Terry Dene, Wee Willie Harris, etc.) as evidence that Cliff's "Move It" was not the first R&R record in the UK. But I accept it was better than most of what preceded it here, and a classic track. The likes of Dene and Harris didn't have much success anyway and soon disappeared. Tommy Steele was an exception but he quickly moved away from Rock & roll and became the proverbial "all round entertainer" (lampooned as "Fred Iron" on the Peter Sellers record), moving into musicals and movies. Sadly Billy Fury died relatively young, but Joe Brown is still doing occasional gigs. Interestingly, many people assume the guitarist on "Move It" was Hank Marvin, but it was a session guitarist Ernie Shears who played on the record. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:33 AM Actually I prefer "Move It" to "Rock With The Cavemen". For those interested in early British Rock'n'roll. Mo Fosters "Play Like Elvis" originally titled "17 Watts" is a fund of information regarding guitarists and session players in general. Ernie Shears (gtr) Frank Clarke (bass) and Terry Smart (the original Shadows drummer) were the players on Move It which was originally a B side. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:41 AM Yes, the original 'A' side is the dire cover of a Bobby Helms US hit "Schoolboy Crush". Appalling and definitely neither rock nor roll! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Bill D Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:48 PM "We're all folk. It's all music. All music is therefore folk music" *sigh* Whether meant jokingly or seriously, that sort of convoluted logic is all too common. It pretends to simplify and muddles the issue. ...and ummmm..Alec, "Originally Rock 'n' Roll was a blend of Country music & R 'n' B both of which were local variants of Folk music. Ergo Rock 'n' Roll is a logical entailment of the Folk process Q.E.D." BOTH premises there are somewhere between misleading and totally inaccurate...which renders the conclusion useless. There are both factual and rhetorical problems with it. I hope you were just making a joke? Please tell me, so I can laugh hollowly.... You might as well just say that "all music comes from some earlier music" which is true, but useless if you want to discuss some particular style. There ARE differences.....various of us LIKE different styles, therefore we need ways to refer to them. Finding ways to claim they are all related, just so you don't have to feel obligated to limit your discussions just ain't reasonable. Using that logic, you can go to a Bluegrass forum and make a case for discussing Grand Opera.....but you can imagine the reception you'd get. (I know that Max makes no real attempt to limit the topics here, and I know that MY blather is just "blowing in the wind" and is not likely to change much when people are determined to ignore the obvious history and relevance of Mudcat as a **FOLK* (in the narrower sense) forum. I can't stop it, but I can insert these little remarks every year or so, just for the record...) so...carry on....don't mind me. *little beady eyes watching* :^( |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:00 PM Move it became the A side after George Martin took home an acetate recording to play to his daughter, she loved "Move It" so much that he lobbied the powers that be to make it an A side,,,, he really was a shrewed man. Anyway, i would like to see a Cliff and Shadows MTV unplugged album, including a re-recording of Move it, but Cliffs gotta get back to the earthy rocky side..stop prancing about..perhaps some new material as well. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Grab Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:16 PM Perhaps that was a bit over-critical !! Perhaps just a little. ;-) I don't think there was a decline - there was still the same mixture of good stuff, average stuff and crap stuff as usual, with plenty of adverse influence from record companies/producers manufacturing bands to be "The Next (fill in name)". I think the difference was just that the style changed, and just as not everyone likes all kinds of folk, not everyone likes all kinds of rock. Me, I don't like thrash metal in general, but I think some of the more intelligent and melodic Metallica stuff is superb. And generally I thought grunge was a manufactured waste of time (just like punk was a manufactured waste of time), although again there was good stuff in there. And the other big difference was radio. Once radio "standardised" what you heard, I think things died - you never heard anything different, so it never pushed your boundaries. John Peel tried, bless him, but everyone else knuckled under. Radio 1 went rap, Radio 2 only picked up the easy-listening stuff, and commercial radio played what they got paid to play. That's one thing I like today - once you get away from Chris Moyles and Sara Cox and other wasters, Radio 1 has a lot of rock on it again. Particularly Zane Lowe, who like Peel has few boundaries on what gets played, but unlike Peel seems to vet them before he plays them, so what hits the air is a very diverse but generally high-quality set of music. And as far as I can tell, he's the only DJ on the air today who cares more about the music than about running his mouth, which makes a refreshing change. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:09 PM Just want to address the people who say why is this thread on a folk site,,,,, i myself am not a keen folk music enthusiast, but i do recognise the beauty of a well crafted piece of music, whatever genre it is to be called, also, what would the point of posting this thread on a R.n.R forum when everyone would just agree with me, i believe that you should always try to get the other persons views, then you can challenge your own thoughts and get a more balanced view....never be scared of the unknown. and this is in the music thread because i think it deserves to be. the music that we are discussing here has been so influential to so many people. who have gone onto all genres of music. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:28 PM There is a very special link between rock music and folk music in Britain. The key to understanding where both folk music in Bruitrain and RocknRoll cam,e from, and where they were going, was the skiffle explosion, and the mass of skiffle groups that sprung up, and were the seed-bed for both types of music. Check back on virtually anyone of that generation involved in either music, and you find a skiffle background. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:41 PM I agree with M of H. It might be worth mentioning that Alexis Korner was a catalyst in British music from the late 50s to the mid 60s (IMNSHO) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:04 PM True enough McGrath of Harlow,arguably 2 of the most important groups in the history of 20th century British music were skiffle bands: The Thameside Four (with whom Martin Carthy made his debut) and The Quarrymen (who evolved into The Beatles.) In both cases the influence extended well beyond these shores(See the McGuinn quote I posted earlier for, merely one,example.) Hello BILL D,as stated in my initial post my conclusion was (partially) tongue in cheek but I stand by my premises. The close relationship between Folk & Rock 'n' Roll might be more discernible this side of the pond but this side of the pond is signposted in the thread title. You know what the best of Classical music,Folk,Blues,Jazz & Rock have in common? we're damn lucky to have access to them. It IS possible to appreciate all of them. This is not intended as a personal attack, I respect & admire any person who wishes to conserve things which are worth conserving. I recognise you as such a person. Keep 'em flying. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:42 PM Ive mentioned this before, but is worth mentioning again on this thread. Steve & Muff Winwood were friends at the time through the social club we went to and the fact they lived 50 yards up the road and we played football together. They used to come to the club with washboard and tea chest and sing skiffle music. At the trad jazz club that my mate ran, Spenecr Davis (who wasn't known to us at that time, asked if he could sing in the interval. He sang Lonnie Donegan songs. After that they formed Spencer Davis Group. Steve Winward does John Barleycorn on one of his LP's. Low and behold in 2007 Tim van Eyken wins the best traditional track with Barleycorn. What goes around comes around |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:08 PM Bill dear chap, I was being IRONIC! :-) People were arguing (you included I believe) about whether this topic should be 'permitted' on Mudcat because it's not about 'folk', and thereby detracting from what was, and is, a discussion that many of us find rivetting. I simply object to a few individuals attempting to censor threads, just because they're not interested in the subject-matter. Anyone who doesn't want to partake should simply ignore the thread, not raise objections to its existence. That's all I was trying to say (but obviously failed! LOL!) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:23 PM I want to see you doing Rock n Roll Strollin' Are you likely to be doing anything in the near future ? Rock, Skiffle, Trad jazz, Folk - bring it all on. Music makes the world go round and makes me happy. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: John O'L Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:30 PM If you want a link between British rock and folk music, I suggest Billy Bragg, and not because of Mermaid Avenue either. Because of Waiting For The Great Leap Forward Revised version |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:28 PM I find this a very interesting article The Quarry Men |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Bill D Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:42 PM Ok..*grin*...Ironic...(text does not always convey subtleties ) I've said all I need to ...probably more. Y'all have fun... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:06 PM we have one of those local 'golden oldies' stations and I remember once calling in to ask for Shaking all over by Johnny Kidd and the Pirates -- the dj had never heard of Johnny Kidd and the Pirates and insisted on playing the US version of Shaking all Over -- I can't even remember the singer............ |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:18 AM Move it became the A side after George Martin took home an acetate recording to play to his daughter, she loved "Move It" so much that he lobbied the powers that be to make it an A side,,,, he really was a shrewed man. He was indeed, but I think you'll find it wasn't him but Norrie Paramor whose daughter persuaded him to 'flip' the A & B sides of Cliff's first single. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:31 AM I simply object to a few individuals attempting to censor threads, just because they're not interested in the subject-matter. Anyone who doesn't want to partake should simply ignore the thread, not raise objections to its existence. I agree - in this case the thread title is clear enough, so there's no reason anyone who isn't interested in the subject to waste their time reading the thread if they don't want to. As for links between rock 'n' roll and folk: both R&R and skiffle arrived at around the same time in the UK, and they were similar in that they were a kind of music that young people in particular enjoyed, and the main attraction was that, especially with skiffle, it allowed them to make their own music on a limited budget (unlike today's teenagers, those in the 1950s had little disposable income), and some would say, with only rudimentary musical skills required. Skiffle was the main link with folk, though, because many of the songs were adapted from folk songs. Many youngsters who started in skiffle bands went on to greater things, as the examples above show. Many folkies were led towards folk music via skiffle, myself included (although I was too young to have been in a 1950s skiffle band, I was aware of the music and later started playing some of it myself). Even if you don't like certain forms of music, it's often interesting to know a little about the background and the context, as it helps to understand how the 'folk scene' got where it is today. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:51 AM It would be a fun album if anybody put it together - the greatest hits of British trad jazz revival Pasadena, Peter and the Wolf, Midnight in Moscow, You're Driving Me Crazy, (though not strictly jazz) Stranger on the Shore, I'm Shy Mary Ellen I'm Shy, Yes My Darling Daughter, Bad Penny Blues, Petite Fleur, So Do I, March of the Siamese Children, (er....that's it) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:14 AM I wouldn't call "Stranger on the Shore" jazz. Acker Bilk recorded a lot of great trad jazz sides, but that wasn't one of them. He has always (since the late 1950s anyway) followed two distinct musical paths, the trad jazz one and the 'easy listening clarinet' one. Stranger on the Shore was the latter, IMO. I would suggest That's My Home, Creole Jazz, Corrina Corrina, etc. as alternatives (there are plenty of trad jazz tracks by Acker to choose from - all those made the UK charts). |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:32 AM And it was Mr Bilk's rendition of "A Taste Of Honey" which inspired The Beatles to record it (though I'm still not entirely convinced that,that was one of their better ideas) I always feel that "I Saw Her Standing There" owes an indefinable something to "When The Saints Go Marchin' In". Skiffle Roots again or is it just me? As for contrary views, I think they're useful- they might be accurate in a way that hadn't occured to you or they might help you to think through your own views. (When I say "you" I mean myself at least as much as anybody else.) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:49 AM Of course Kenny Ball had more chart hits than any other UK trad jazz band, so there are more of his you could include, but I guess you don't want one artist to dominate the proposed album (other hits of his include Samantha, Sukiyaki, Acapulco 1922, I Still Love You All, Casablanca, Rondo, Hello Dolly, etc., etc.) Strangely enough WLD I did do something like this myself a while ago. I can't remember what tracks I had on the CD, but probably most of what you had above would be there. IIRC I included some tracks by Bob Wallis (Come Along Please, Chinatown) and Chris Barber's Whistling Rufus. You could include Chesapeake Bay, which Lonnie Donegan recorded with the Clyde Valley Stompers (a skiffle connection there, slowly getting back towards the thread subject!) These weren't all chart hits, but were popular with trad jazz fans at the time. Just realised this doesn't have much to do with R&R - sorry folks :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:54 AM Music is very 'individual' or personal, and arguments about what is 'good' tend to lead nowhere. From a personal point of view I find "Danny Boy" to be an ugly melody set to mediocre words, but the history of the song is fascinating. (I know lotsa folks will disagree with that, and that's cool by me.) Neat link about the song here. OTOH, I absolutely love "Maggie" and "October Winds". In the jazz area, I like Theolonious Monk's work but don't really care for Miles Davis' stuff. Mahler attracts me and Dvorak is boring. I find Bob Dylan's lyrics (and most melodies) to be awesome, but not so the majority of Woody Guthrie's work. I think Robert Johnson is highly over-rated as a singer/writer and I will never understand the reverence he's given by blues people, but then Muddy Waters 'speaks' to me and so does Mississippi John Hurt. I would never argue this with people because folks have different tastes in music. I would also never argue the relative merit of Rap Music--neither pro nor con--despite the fact it is irritating and bothersome as an art form (IMO). I don't think I'll hear a prettier song (ballad) than "Patches" or Johnny Horton's "All For the Love of a Girl", but then not all people would agree, and that's cool too. Rock and Roll has had and continues to have its moments. I find "Stairway to Heaven" to be a piece of junk as a song, but then I think that of "Horse With No Name" and that 'We will, we will rock you' thing. However, put on youtube cut of JF doing UATB and you got my attention. It has one of the greatest hooks r and r ever had--ranks up there with CB's ROB--and if you don't know whose initials they are or which song it is then you are beyond ALL help from the r and r gods. Folks, ya like what ya like. I don't think any music of the last 300 years developed in isolation without influences from other music. (I'm likely wrong about that and I'd sure expect to find out shortly, lol.) However, it says something about the human condition and character that there does NOT exist one single group of people anywhere in the world who do not like music. And that speaks volumes. One more youtube: The audience loves it. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:09 AM Youtube: you'll know it when you hear it. Beautiful song, beautiful arrangement, beautiful words, beautiful sentiment--in fact, simply beautiful. If all hymns were like that I'd go to church. Night, all. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:20 AM Youtube: It's a gas no matter what ya call it. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:37 AM (ALL are Youtube video links) Sometimes it don't matter whether you understand the language. The thought crosses over all borders. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:38 AM Now, for the last time, GOOD NIGHT. Sleep well, all. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:47 AM Sleep well? where are you? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:03 AM Sleep well Peace. I would hazard that the point at which music ceased to develop in isolation without influences from other music was probably within 5 minutes of its birth. Music of the fields,music of the palaces,music of the marketplaces. They have all drawn creatively on each other for millennia. They still do. Long may this continue. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:15 AM Gene Vincent (with the limp) Wee Willie Harris (of the green hair) RtS (Bee bop a lula) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:31 AM Didn't acker do a knockout version of Que Sera Sera? I remember delia gone as well, but I've no idea if they were records. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:53 AM One of my favourite jazz bands was Terry Lightfoot. Hows about "Ice Cream" |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 09 Feb 07 - 10:57 AM Scrump, you are absolutely right, it was Norrie Paramor.....I do apologise. Its still one heck of a record though...... Nice words peace, right behind you on most of it... Anybody seen Brian Setzer play. that guy is a fantastic all rounder, if you havent, i suggest you have a look, i will try to find a you tube link a little later. Cheers for now |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:33 AM WLD, Acker certainly recorded Buona Sera, but I'm not sure I ever heard him do Que Sera Sera. Yes, he did also record Delia Gone. And he's still going at well over 70 (so is Kenny Ball - I saw them both with their bands a couple of years ago and they were still bloody good!) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:00 PM Well, an intesting discussion about british Rock n Roll. But typical from men's point of view because: are'nt there any girls rocking around in those days e.g. like Lulu and others??????? Please help me to remember... Manfred from Germay |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:11 PM Lulu came slightly later Leadbelly (National success from 1964 onwards.) Nancy Whiskey played an important role in Skiffle,but I suppose the first succesful British female singer in a Rock 'n' Roll related idiom may have been Dusty Springfield who sang on "Seven Little Girls" by The Avons (1959) prior to becoming a major artist in her own right. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:39 PM Alec, another example: Helen Shapiro started a litle bit earlier than Lulu in 1961. But would you say that at least in the beginnig she was performing R&R? I'm not quite sure about this. Indeed, it seems so that R&R primarily was a man's world in those days. Apart from Wanda Jackson and others living in the US. Manfred |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM I would also be uncertain as to whether Helen qualified Leadbelly. She is still touring as a well-respected Jazz performer but her early singles were maybe more pop than Rock 'n' Roll. One important woman from this period is Astrid Kircher who, though not a performer, befriended The Beatles in their Hamburg days & had an enormous influence on their visual style as well as introducing them to some music which they had not previously encountered. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 09 Feb 07 - 01:41 PM Yeah, that's true, Alec. Astrid was Sutcliffe's girlfriend in 1961 and created the typical hair cut of the Beatles resp. Beat Brothers. A have had the pleasure to listen to the Beatles performing in the Star Club and Top Ten in Hamburg. But coming back to early british R&R ladies. Is there any reason behind the fact that british girls did not take part in early R&R? By the way: At least in the beginnig and together with her brother (The Springfields) Dusty wasn't a "rocking" lady, or am I wrong? And later on, she did perform wonderful and unforgettable songs but I cannot remember a real rocking title performed by a typical rock formation. Although she has had the voice to do so. If I'm mistaken I beg of pardon. I'm living in Germany. Manfred |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:05 PM Hi again Leadbelly, I think that the reason there were so few women in the early days of British R & R is simply because this was not considered a "respectable" form of music.Britain in the 'Fifties/early Sixties was decidedly more puritanical than it is now & if a young woman acquired a bad reputation this could have a detrimental effect on both her career & her marriage prospects. I think this may have been the reason why young women chose not to get involved until everybody "lightened up" a bit. As for Dusty,I hear R&R in such songs as "Wishin' & Hopin' &"Little by Little" Though this may be subjective. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Murray MacLeod Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:27 PM I would have thought Dusty Springfield's marriage prospects would have been the least of her worries ... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 09 Feb 07 - 03:15 PM Cherry Wainer. She played organ on Jack Good's Saturday teatime progs. With of course Lord Rockingham's Xl. I believe she sang as well. Try Youtube. There are some real gems of British TV Pop/R'n'R. Also if you can get hold of Chas McDevitt's Skiffle book, it lists loads of British rockers who started in Skiffle Roger The S. Am I right or am I right ?? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 09 Feb 07 - 04:51 PM Heres a Brian Setzer Link, have look, he is so cool. a bit of an unpolished diamond. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgUCs72RDHs Some feedback on this would be good, because i have a great idea for another thread. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:48 PM Thanks Alec, sounds to be a logigal explanation. Manfred |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:25 PM 'nother Brian Setzer cut because that link above seems not to work too well. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:14 PM So far as skiffle was concerned, I don't think it was a matter of whether or nitr it was respectable. (Actually it was, as often as not.) I'd say it was more a question of motivation. And that wasn't basically about fame and fortune, it was primarily a way of showing off, and girls had other ways of doing that, which didn't involve learning three chords on a guitar. There were girls in skiffle but relatively few. (Notably "Nancy Whiskey" - born Anne Wilson - with Chas McDevitt) And if there were any all girl skiffle groups I never heard of them. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 10 Feb 07 - 04:14 AM McGrath, I know about a girls group called Liverbirds playing in Hamburg's Star Club around 1962/1963 I believe. They tried to play R&R but I'm not sure whether they are known at all in the UK. Manfred |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:31 AM ...Right you are ,Charley, as usual! BTW Herself, on hearing I'd declined the offers in your last 2 e-mails, thinks the 12-step programme may be working at last! Only got about 4 CDs on order at the moment! RtS |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:56 AM Here is an interesting link, I think. http://www.onlineweb.com/theones/1950_ones.htm Strikes me that whilst Rock and Roll was brilliant, not many singers acheived a number one hit with Rock and Roll in the UK |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:21 AM Don't think Joe Meek was into girls. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:41 AM Say no more Al :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:14 AM Listen again to the Joe Meek story on BBC Radio 2. Strange Man. Dadudendoodoo Angela Jones. I hated that record when it came out and still hate it now. Bad Penny Blues, now that's different. I'll get me anorak. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:14 PM Bad Penny Blues - now that is something else |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Trev Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:23 PM Not sure about Cliff and Shadows being first 'real' group. Billy Fury had the Tornadoes as his backing band, who scored number 1 in UK and US (only Brit instrumental group to do so) with Telstar. Wasn't Johnny Kidd's "Please Don't Touch" before "Shakin' All Over". |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 11 Feb 07 - 12:01 AM Youtube video: Country-Rock today. Good song. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 11 Feb 07 - 02:11 AM Hi Trev, Larry Parnes bought in the Tornadoes to back Billy Fury around 1961, to try to emulate the success of Cliff and the Shadows, He auditioned many bands for Billy, including the Beatles, of whch John Lennon got Billys autograph, he was a real fan of Billy Fury.The Shadows were originally called the Drifters, but had to change theyre name in 1959 because of the American group of the same name. Cliff and the Drifters truly were our first r,n,r band, unfortunately because of what Cliff has gone on to do, they seem to get forgotten as a credible band, they only really had about 18 good months. but if your from the States and you have never heard of tem, they are well worth checking out. Heres a few titles to look out for 1, Move It 2, Apron Strings 3, Livin Lovin Doll 4, Mean Streak 5, No Turning Back 6, Dynamite Dont forget the first album just called "Cliff" recorded live at the E.M.I studios in 1959. not a bad track on it..... also check out "The Sound of Fury"..... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Peace Date: 11 Feb 07 - 02:17 AM Move It and Mean Streak are both on Youtube, FYI. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:06 AM Guinness give the title of first British Rock 'n' Rollers to top the British charts to Tommy Steel & the Steelmen's version of "Singing the Blues" which reached the top on 11th January 1957. Cliff & The Drifters(as were) got there for the first time on 31st July 1959 with "Livin' Doll" Though The Tornadoes did score the first major Transatlantic Britrock hit with "Telstar" Billy Fury never had a No 1 hit in his own right.(personal best "Jealousy" No 2 Sept. 1961) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:00 AM My point about Cliff and the Drifters being the first true British RnR band is that, although Tommy Steele had what is known as our first RnR hit, he wasnt really a RnR artist, "Rock with the Caveman" is a very weak song, its a record company contrived piece of garbage really, all his RnR records were. He was placed to get teenagers to spend theyre new found wealth...he was a 1950´s version of an Xfactor winner. but probably more forgettable. They all were untill Cliff and the Drifters arrived. I personally think that those early RnR hits like "Rock around the Clock" "Rock with the Caveman" etc etc, are more swing/big band orientated. My personal favourite by Billy Fury is "Wonderous Place" it still sounds fresh today, if he sung the killer lyric any slower it would be a ballad, if he sang it any faster it would be a pop song, he gets it smack on......although i love him doing "Dont Knock Upon My Door" fantastic stuff.... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM Agree with your view of Cliff's primary importance Blindlemonsteve but I feel that, having peaked so early,he rapidly became a singer who was,for the most part,inclined to sing anything that looked as though it may have commercial potential. (Though this may be verging on blasphemy in the eyes of some,I feel the same way about Elvis.) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:05 AM You are absolutely right Alec, although i do feel that Elvis´s problem was with his management rather than his pursuit of commercial success. But with a few exeptions, i dont think Elvis done anything of real note for real music lovers after 1956. John Lennon nailed it when told of Elvis´s death he said "Elvis died the day he went in the army" His records on the Sun label were absolutely amazing, i cant imagine how they must have sounded to middle class Bible belt America when they first come out....i think they were an important part of the civil rights movement. But these problems of people selling out for commercial success are common. just about everyone does it in the end, The problem with Cliff is that he got so naff, that its hard to remember that he actually deserves his place in the British RnR hall of fame, but only because he had done his best work by the time he was 20. I listen to Move it and think what could have been... Whats got 200 feet and smells of urine "the front row of a Cliff richard concert".... what a shame.... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 11 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM Roy Young was one time pianist in Tony Sheridan's Band & last I heard was living in Canada. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Terry K Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:21 AM Interesting, your reference to Roy Young, who I thought was one of the better talents of the original British rock 'n rollers. I don't think he ever amounted to anything in terms of commercial success did he? cheers, Terry |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:46 AM There is a fairly lengthy recent(ish) interview with Roy Young at beatles.ncf.ca |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:07 AM Interesting discussions - I've only just revisited this thread so here's my catch-up 5p's worth. Girls in Rock 'n' Roll - Alec's assessment is right (i.e. being a female R 'n' R star wasn't considered the right wholesome image for a young woman at the time). It was similar in the USA, with Wanda Jackson being very much an exception in the mid/late 50s. Most girl singers of the Helen Shapiro ilk were the female equivalent of the 'teenage idol' type of male singer that was still popular until being swept out of fashion by the Beatles and the 'beat boom' (see below). This continued to some extent for female singers even after that (big 1960s female stars like Cilla Black, Sandie Shaw, etc., were not really R 'n' R singers). I'm surprised no-one followed up Manfred's mention of The Springfields, who were more folky than most bands in those days. They consisted of a trio with Dusty & Tom Springfield and Tim Field (later replaced by Mike Hurst). They had a few hits in the UK including Island of Dreams & Say I Won't Be There, and issued some albums with a lot of folk songs on. Of course Dusty went on to be a much bigger star on her own. As others said, Lulu didn't arrive until 1964 (initially with her then obligatory band 'The Luvvers') when the 'beat boom' was well under way (see below). British R & R bands: apart from Clif & The Shadows and Johnny Kidd & The Pirates, there were few successful bands as opposed to solo singers, until the Beatles came along. Yes, Billy Fury had various backing groups at different times including the Tornados, the Outlaws and the Blue Flames (featuring Georgie Fame on keyboards - of course he & the Blue Flames had great success in their own right after moving on from Billy.) When the Beatles came along, suddenly the charts were full of groups, notably from Merseyside, Manchester and London (among other places), and solo male singers were seen as somewhat old hat. The record companies tried to bring their singers up to date by finding backing groups for them, e.g. Adam Faith & The Roulettes, Billy Fury & The Outlaws. It worked for a while, until the beat boom moved on and some of these artists faded away (e.g. Adam Faith didn't have much success after the mid-1960s). |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:22 AM Roy Young also played Hammond in Cliff Bennet's 'Rebel-Rousers'. A fantastic player in a fantastic soul-orientated band. Had the pleasure of playing on the same bill as them a number of times in the '60's - magic nights! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:43 AM Damn right, Strollin', I saw Cliff Bennett numerous times from '61 to '69. He always had great musicians and material. Roy Young was on Hammond and vocals with Chas Hodges on Bass and vocals. Last I heard of Roy on record was with Long John Baldry back in the 80s. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:52 PM Very good summary of this discussion so far, Scrump! Concernig girls in Rock'n'Roll I would like to add that next to Wanda Jackson US-singer Connie Francis has had a rock'n'roll-like song in 1958: Stupid cupid. And what about lipstick on your collar? At least she has had some talent to perform r&r. But naturally she's not british (see subject). Manfred |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,ian Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM Johnny Ray,Sam Cooke,Ray Charles,and so many more who moved music on in ways that the 50s needed.To develope and change as music does and will.Music is not a pure thing of Folk,Rock and Roll,Skiffle,R/B,Reggae,Motown or whatever.It does not stand still,because the art does not stand still. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Terry K Date: 13 Feb 07 - 12:33 AM Thanks for that link on Roy Young - there was me thinking he had sunk into oblivion whereas it seems he has had a fantastic career just below the parapet - including playing on Beatles albums. cheers, Terry |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:36 AM Good point about Connie Francis, Manfred. She and some of the other girl singers did sing a few rock 'n' roll-like songs, but I would hesitate to call them rock 'n' roll singers. Connie Francis probably had more hits with ballads and 'teenage' love songs that were popular in those days. Some of the girl singers would do occasional up-tempo numbers which might just be classed with rock 'n' roll, but R&R purists would probably say they weren't! Some girl singers had rather gentle vocal style which wouldn't probably have lent itself to rock 'n' roll. Lulu is an exception, as I would think Helen Shapiro could be too, as they both had strong voices that could belt out a song. But others like Sandie Shaw and Carole Deene (remember her?) were probably better at the 'teenage' love songs than anything else. Then of course there were the girl groups, a whole new topic (Shangri-Las, Shirelles, etc.)! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:01 AM I know its not RnR, but i love Cilla Black "Anyone who had a heart". its such a classy song, i think that has to be the female single of the 60´s. Just wanted to add that really.... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:31 AM Scrump,I heard about Carol Deene, but I cannot remember any songs she did. Living in Germany I had to rely on BFN and I don't believe that she ever reached the top ten resp. top 20 although I just learned by a german site that she did it once (rank# 20). She has had a car accident in 1966, that's right? By the way: remembering BFN in those days Alastair McDougall (?) and others come into my mind. They made a good job for the british army in northern germany and as a german I'm very thankful for all information about british and international music. I got a positive shock listening for the first time to Lonnie's "Cumberland Gap" and "Don't you rock me Daddy-o". Wow! Manfred |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:39 AM Hi Manfred. Yes, she did have a serious car accident in 1966 as you say, but her chart career was already over by then. She only had a few minor hits, some of which were covers of American hits by US girl singers like Sue Thompson (Norman and Sad Movies) and Joanie Sommers (Johnny Get Angry). She recovered from the accident but I don't know what happened to her after that. Her singing style was probably put out of fashion by the Beatles and other groups. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 13 Feb 07 - 10:31 AM not had time to read all this.. but the best of late 50's Brit rock'n'roll is a glorious timeless sound.. Btw.. to get a flavour of seedy late 50's soho/coffee bar rock'n'roll era check out DVD "Expresso Bongo" usually about £3 or £4 [or the recent more expensive 'special edition'] a classic sharp black & white widescreen satire on dodgy rock'n'roll show biz promoters.. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Blindlemonsteve Date: 13 Feb 07 - 02:24 PM On the Expresso bongo theme, check out "Serious Charge" an absolutely fantastic Film, very dark issues, and the first recording of Living Doll, a rocked up version, also "No turning Back".... fabulous,,, tell ya what else has come out on DVD is "The Leather Boys".... real cutting drama about a young lad experiencing the secret homosexual desires of a friend,,, its a must see, also, my Dad is in one of the motorcycle scenes. its the film that Morrisey based "Girlfriend in a coma" on....long live Pinewood. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 13 Feb 07 - 02:34 PM The "Serious Charge" 45 rpm EP is notable because it featured the first ever track by the Shadows on their own, "Chinchilla" (The Shadows were still called the Drifters then). (The other 3 tracks on the EP were by Cliff of course). |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:19 PM Strollin' Now that was a great band Cliff Bennett & The Rebel Rousers 2 of my favourites were One Way Love Got To Get You Into My Life de re de de de dum :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:18 AM I saw that bloke who played the vicar in Serious Charge, not long before he died - he was in a play at The Thetre Royal in Nottingham. He played the nazi south african in Ice Cold in Alex. can't say I share your enthusiasm for Serious Charge. Mind you I was more of a The Duke Wore Jeans fan - I even used to buy sissy girls magazines like Roxy if Tommy was on the front. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM Can't remember much about the film (Serious Charge) or Expresso Bongo, although I've seen them on telly years ago. I think most of these films are mainly of interest now for their historical pop music (and social) content, rather than any great storylines, plot or acting (although some good actors did appear in some of them). In the 1950s and 60s there were a lot of films issued as 'vehicles' for pop stars of the day (Cliff's Young Ones, Summer Holiday, Elvis's string of films, etc.) Some of these films were more or less like watching an episode of Top of the Pops (in the days before TOTP existed). I can remember films such as "Just For Fun" or "It's Trad Dad" that featured a lot of the pop stars of the time. I wonder if any of these are available now on DVD? They'd be fascinating to see again (even though they were probably cr*p as films!). Can anyone else remember these, or think of any others? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:41 AM Wasn't there a film with the theme title'Some People' Something like......Some people think that kids today have gone astray But they don't know co's they're all mixed up too. Can't recall the rest Me brain hurts David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:42 AM "It's Trad,Dad" is certainly available on DVD.Some of the others still get an airing on afternoon T.V. from time to time. Only ever saw "Expresso Bongo" but it was certainly a far more intelligent film than some of Cliff's later offerings. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:47 AM Yes,David it featured the heartmeltingly good looking Aneke Wills who later became a Doctor Who girl & object of my first crush. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:34 AM Alec, Thanks for that.I still remember the music,Often find it running through my head.And you're right about Aneke Wills,Ho Hum! Cheers David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:42 AM Yes, "Some People" is another film of the type I'm thinking of. I can't actually remember seeing it, but I probably did. The theme song was recorded by Valerie Mountain, but there were a couple of other versions from Carole Deene (mentioned above in this thread) and Jet Harris, both IMO better than the 'official' one. Most of these films had pretty dire plots about youth clubs, dastardly property developers hoping to bulldoze them, and teenagers forming bands to raise money to buy the site and save the youth club, so we had the excuse for the gigs to be filmed (OK that was more or less the plot of the Young Ones, but from what I remember, most of the other films had similar storylines). (I can't remember Aneke Wills - what was her name in Dr Who? I can remember most of the other girls though :D) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:49 AM Slightly off topic but: Aneke Wills played Polly in (Late Hartnell & early Troughton era)Doctor who. She also later co-starred in "Strange Report" & guested in at least one episode of "The Likely Lads." |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:28 AM I seem to remember a scene where a guy is sitting in the bath,wearing his jeans,waiting for them to shrink! I tried it,my mother thought I was mad.She's since been proved right on that score! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:55 AM I seem to remember a scene where a guy is sitting in the bath,wearing his jeans,waiting for them to shrink! I tried it,my mother thought I was mad.She's since been proved right on that score! Yes, instead of shrinking my jeans I just waited a few years until I got bigger round the middle :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:48 AM Villan, you're right, Cliff Bennett and the Rebel Rousers were a great band. Slightly off-topic here because they most definitely were NOT R&R, but they sure could play Soul. They had a couple of LPs out, both of which were used as frisbees by my (then toddler) children, so I no longer have them. I recollect that, when I played with the support band on the live gigs we did with them, they did stroming versions of 'Beautiful Dreamer' and '6345789' - bloody marvellous! :-) Question for the World At Large - anyone lnow if their stuff's available on CD? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:50 AM I also have a recollection that the two guys who went on to become Chas & Dave were with them at that time, but it was a long time ago and my grey cells are disappearing by the day................!! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:52 AM Stroming?? STORMING!! Told you my grey cells were going AWOL! LOL! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:54 AM Most of their back catalogue appears to be available on CD strollin' Though as far as "Got To Get You Into My Life" goes, I still prefer the original.:-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:20 AM Yes, Cliff Bennett & The Rebel Rousers were a good band who sadly didn't get the success they deserved. I think "One Way Love" was their only hit. He had a strong voice and the band were good musicians. Maybe that was their problem :-) Reminds me of the old Peter Sellers sketch about a 'svengali' type pop manager (an ex-army Major), where the interviewer is asking what qualities he looks for in a pop singer. After he reels off the list, she asks: "I suppose a nice musical singing voice is what you look out for. Is that right?" To which he replies: "By Jove yes! First sign of that and out he goes, what! (laughs)" Full sketch words can be found here |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:34 AM "Expresso Bongo" was a movie version of a hit west end musical satire.. and was as 'adult' a movie as the producers could con past the censors without an X cert.. [the special edition is worth the extra few quid for the directors commentary and a hiariously naff contemporary colour documentary about soho coffee bars..] .. and another similar favourite .. though perhaps more beatnik than rock 'n'roll is "Beat Girl".. but you probably need to find a bootleg of the uncut widescreen[european export? ]nudey strippers version shown on Film 4 a few years ago.. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:44 AM strollin J - I saw Cliff Bennett and Rebel Rousers on a warner break somewhere in Norfolk about 8 years ago. That day I took a stroll down that street in Yarmouth where all the cheap discount cds are and there was indeed a cliff Bennet on cd for about two quid and of course he was flogging a cd at the gig. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:46 AM oh.. and the DVD of "Expresso Bongo" is a shorter print than shown on BBC about 25 years ago.. the 'daring' dance and backstage scenes still seem to be intact.. but for reasons unexplained.. about 3 songs by characters other than St.Cliff are missing.. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:47 AM "Beat Girl" is probably the best of the U.K. "Exploitation" flicks. Released as "Wild for kicks" in the U.S, starred Adam Faith with music by John Barry. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:29 PM You can find bits of all those 'orrible British pop films on Youtube. Cliff Bennett and co. used to play Rock'n'roll but with the horns they easily moved to Soul through Ray Charles (Sticks and Stones etc) and stuff that was pretty obscure at the time. When I was a soulboy we used to do his version of The Drifter's (USA) "I'll take you home" and "One way love" He went "Hairy" with a band called Toefat with an alubm with a revolting cover. I just thought that on the subject of early British Rock'n'roll I must mention Lord Sutch. For all his antics he had some great bands. Cyril Davies more or less stole one lot of Savages. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:04 PM Are we talking of the harp player Cyril Davies of Country Line Special? Saw him several times,if it's the same gentleman! Maybe at the Eel Pie Island. David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 15 Feb 07 - 02:48 PM Yes, David. That was he. The line-up on Country Line Special was Sutch's original Savages. Ricky Fenson (Brown) bass, Bernie "Strawberry" Watson guitar, Nicky Hopkins piano and Carlo Little on drums. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 15 Feb 07 - 03:15 PM Thanks guys, I'll search around for the CDs |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:17 PM fat B****rd,good on yer.Is any of this music on CD? Not that I would be able to find it anyway, this end of the tunnel! This is a great thread,triggering some fond memories,that some of us here experienced,maybe at the same moment,in the same place. Would we know each other if we were to meet up! I don't even know myself in the mirror each morning! Cheers David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:34 PM Is this link any good as far as a CD is concerned for Cliff Bennett - Strollin' Cliff Bennett & The Rebel Rousers/Got To Get You Into Our Life - Import CD $11.29 Its got 6345-789 and Beautiful Dreamer and Barefootin on it |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:43 PM starts me thinking of (not rock and Roll) Zoot Money and his big roll band who I saw live in Birmingham around 1965 - what an evening. Never got to see Gino Washington and his Ram Jam Band. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:04 PM If my memory serves me well!!!Zoot Money used to alternate with Georgie Fame at the Flamingo Club.All night sessions,fantastic! Saw Gino Washington at the "Island"several times,along with Alexis Korner. If anyone can tell me where the Pretty Things used to play,I might be able to find out where I was as a certain time! David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:17 PM Alexis Korner CCS Tap turns on the water - whole Lotta love CCS Pretty Things Biography part 1 |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:37 PM The 100 Club.Amongst others,I saw Kevin Coyne there.Had a long chat with him.Great guy.Alas,he's left us! Thanks for that link Villan. David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 16 Feb 07 - 02:23 AM Glad it helped :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 16 Feb 07 - 02:47 AM Going back to women in British Rock 'n' Roll. The first woman to have a number 1 single in Britain with a Rock song was American born naturalised Briton Suzi Quatro with "Can the Can". That was as late as June 1973. The first Woman to have a number 1 single with a Rock song she wrote herself was Kate Bush with "Wuthering Heights" as late as January 1978. I suppose slow progress is better than no progress but all the same it is a little embarrasing. (Kate was also the first female vocalist to top the U.K. singles & album charts simultaneously.) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 16 Feb 07 - 05:01 AM Hmmm, it depends on your definition of 'rock', Alec. There were plenty of female artists who topped the charts before 1973, but I admit most of them tended to be ballads rather than rock songs. Helen Shapiro's 'Walking Back To Happiness' was fairly up-tempo though, as is These Boots Are Made For Walkin' (Nancy Sinatra), both 1960s no. 1 hits. There were plenty of no. 1 hits from Cilla, Dusty, et al in the 60s, too. And further back in the 50s we had Connie Francis, Kay Starr, Rosemary Clooney, etc. topping the charts. These women may not have topped the charts with 'rock' songs, but many of them recorded some fairly up-tempo stuff as well as the ballads, e.g. Lipstick on Your Collar, Stupid Cupid by Connie F. It's what we said earlier, the female singers conformed to that style until, probably the late 1960s when the likes of Janis Joplin (and of course the soul singers) paved the way for females to branch out into more 'rocky' material. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 16 Feb 07 - 08:15 AM Nancy Sinatra, Connie Francis, Kay Starr and Rosemary Clooney were American weren't they? Therefore they surely don't count as far as this thread goes? And is 'Wuthering Heights' really Rock? Not in my Funk & Wagnall it ain't! :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 16 Feb 07 - 11:53 AM Nancy Sinatra, Connie Francis, Kay Starr and Rosemary Clooney were American weren't they? Therefore they surely don't count as far as this thread goes? Good point SJ! I was talking about the British charts though, so I thought it had slight relevance to the discussion (given that Suzi Quatro is American too). |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 18 Feb 07 - 12:44 AM Does anyone remember Gino Washington and the Ram Jam Band? Perhaps not the right genre, but around at the time of Cliff Bennett and the Rebel Rousers, George Fame etc etc. They were absolutely wonderful live - great showmen. And let's not forget Long John Baldry.....and the enormously tall guy who covered 'Out of Time ...' whose name completely escapes me... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 18 Feb 07 - 02:36 AM That was Chris Farlowe TRUBRIT. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 18 Feb 07 - 03:52 AM TRUEBRIT Have a look at my posts above on Feb 15th |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 18 Feb 07 - 07:02 PM Seconds after I posted I remembered the name Chris Farlow -- thank you Alec!! Villain, you missed a treat not seeing Geno Washington and the Ram Jam Band. I used to live in Slough (sorry!!) and the big DARING thing to do on a Saturday night was to go to Burtons in Uxbridge (yes, the tailors -- the dance club was upstairs) to dance (which I loved/love to do)--the place was probably a death trap - one exit and a million teenage bodies crushed in there. But Washington was a regular -- and what a group of showmen they were........... Ah memories!!!! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Herga Kitty Date: 18 Feb 07 - 07:22 PM I quite enjoyed the BBC Radio 4 programme yesterday morning on 6.5 Special.... Kitty |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 18 Feb 07 - 07:34 PM Ohmigod, I would have enjoyed that so much!!!!! The 6.5 special's coming down the line The 6.5 special - right on time!!! Any my dad sitting there saying -- they call this music!!!! Blast from the past! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Herga Kitty Date: 18 Feb 07 - 07:45 PM Trubrit Britain in a Box Six Five Special broadcast is available on-line. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:03 PM THANK YOU!!!!! Lo and I am 12 years old again.....! And then there was 'Ready Steady GO!!! (my dad hated that too.....) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: heric Date: 19 Feb 07 - 02:01 AM Man, it's like all connected. Brian Ferry is releasing an album comprised entirely of Dylan covers next month. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 19 Feb 07 - 11:03 PM Anyone (besides me) old enough to remember Mike Sarne's Come Outside. Is he still in the land of the living? The female role was quite gutsy (for the time then) -- she didn't want to be ROMANCED -- she wanted to DANCE ...... now there is a revolutionary thought........ |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Alec Date: 20 Feb 07 - 02:50 AM As far as I'm aware Mike Sarne is still with us but not recording. The Female vocalist was Wendy Richards who later found fame playing Miss Brahms in "Are You Being Served?" before going on to play Pauline Fowler in "EastEnders" a role which she has only very recently relinquished. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 20 Feb 07 - 04:25 AM Mike Sarne was (is) an actor who had a couple of successful pop singles. The second "Will I What ?" had Billie Davis on answer vocals. Mr. Sarne appeared at the Winter Gardens, Cleethorpes (see also Cleehropes Folk Festival thread) in about 1961. Hopelesly trying to impress the girl I'd been dancing with I asked if she's like his autograph. I went over "piece of paper in my hand" and asked. He quite willingly signed it and when I thanked him replied "it's a pleasure" with as much enthusiasm as if I'd suggested he should stay in Pop Music forever. Not an unfriendly man but not exactly a Popstar. I'll get me winklepickers. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 20 Feb 07 - 05:15 AM Of course Billie Davis (mentioned above as one of Mike Sarne's vocalists) went on to have her own successful career as a pop singer, with her biggest hit being a cover of the Exciters' "Tell Him" (1963) - it was a very good cover though. She was later involved in a serious car accident with her then boyfriend Jst Harris (ex-Shadows bassist), which nearly cost both of them their lives and seriously curtailed their pop careers. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 20 Feb 07 - 07:09 AM Oops - that should be Jet Harris of course. Talking of Zoot Money, the Flamingo, etc., reminds me of his live album recorded at that other legendary venue Klook's Kleek. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 20 Feb 07 - 07:54 AM Scrump,you mentioned Klook's Kleek,which just made me think of The Macabre.Anybody go there? And the Witches Cauldron.Anyone? David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 20 Feb 07 - 10:57 PM I didn't know the woman on Come Outside was Wendy Richards -- what interesting things one learns on this website! And Billy Davis and Jet Harris being an item is also news. There was a club in Windsor that I was explicity forbidden to attend, therefore of course it was one of my favorite haunts...But the name escapes me. Zoot Money and the Big Roll Band was a regular there as was Georgie Fame et al.....dammit I wish I could remember the name but I know someone out there will know it...... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 Feb 07 - 12:10 AM Rikki Tik |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,albert Date: 21 Feb 07 - 12:26 AM I'd like to reccomend two books by welsh guitarist and songwriter Deke Leonard which are both wonderful reads about the welsh and british rock n roll world of the 1960s and 1970s. Deke was the guitar palayer with Swansea band "Man" and the two books are well worth reading.He also presents occasional rock shows on radio Wales which are excellent. The titles of the books can be found on his website.Deke is still playing live with a tight band called Iceberg which features thea brilliant guitarist Taff Williams who used to play in The Eyes of Blue who deserve a whole thread to themselves. Albert |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:43 AM I remember seeing the Welsh band Man in the early 1970s and they were good. I have an album of theirs somewhere. As for Eyes of Blue, I remember their single "Up and Down" which was a minor hit in about 1966 or 67 (I think) - same band I assume? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:47 AM David - I don't remember the Macabre or the Witches Cauldron. Were they in London? What about the Crawdaddy where the Yardbirds used to play? Anyone got any memories of that? The 6-5 Special was mentioned above. Anyone remember that the original theme tune was by Ken Colyer (with his skiffle band)? The later (more well known) theme was by Don Lang and his Frantic Five. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,albert Date: 21 Feb 07 - 10:45 AM Reply to Scrump EYES OF BLUE I think you are right about the Eyes of Blue. They were a magnificent live band but were badly served by the record company they were with. Their line up was Gary Pickford-Hopkins..vocals Wyndham Rees.....vocals Taff Williams .. guitars /vocals Ritchie Francis.. bass/vocals and songwriter Phil Ryan...hammond organ Pugwash Weathers....drums/vocals I saw loads of great bands in the 60s but I think the Eyes of Blue were my favourite!!!! I am still a massive fan after 40 years!! Most of the above are still playing and Wyndham has got a very nifty rocknroll band called Faded Glory who are well worth catching live.He has a brilliant rocknroll voice although much of their best stuff in the mid 60s was tamla and soul influenced. ALBERT |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Jim Ward Date: 21 Feb 07 - 12:09 PM Scrump- If Ken Colyer were still alive the old bugger would punch you in the mouth for even thinking he played "Over the points". It was of course the Bob Cort Skiffle Group who played it on the first few shows till Don Lang took over. The Macabre - Coffins for tables and candles in skulls, was in Meard Street, off Wardour Street, just around the corner from the 2-I's and The Heaven and Hell in Old Compton Street. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 21 Feb 07 - 12:32 PM Zoot Money has a monthly gig at the Bull's Head Barnes, billed as his "Surprise Party" with guests. Also appears on tv in acting roles. Geno Washington was recently touring with a 60s revival show. RtS |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 21 Feb 07 - 01:25 PM Scrump-the Witches was in the Hampstead area. I remember going to the Crawdaddy and seeing the Yardbirds,but where the hell it was I can't remember! David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Murray MacLeod Date: 21 Feb 07 - 09:03 PM From Wikipedia .. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In February 1963, the Rolling Stones played their first gig at the Crawdaddy, then located at the Station Hotel, Richmond, directly opposite the railway station. The Stones soon became so popular that audiences overflowed onto the street, and the Crawdaddy was forced to move to a larger venue, the Richmond Athletic Ground. By April 1963, the Stones had two gigs a week at the Crawdaddy and a weekly slot at Eel Pie Island, two miles away in Twickenham. During this time, the band had their first chart hit, Come On. When the Stones became too big for small local clubs and went on tour, their residency at the Crawdaddy was taken over by another leading R & B group from nearby Kingston-upon-Thames, The Yardbirds, featuring Eric Clapton. Other artists who played at the club include Long John Baldry, Elton John, Rod Stewart and - according to a sign which used to be displayed above the doorway to the club's later incarnation, the Bull and Bush pub (now Edwards nightclub) - the Small Faces, although by at least one account the Crawdaddy closed before the Small Faces were even formed. The Crawdaddy can claim with some accuracy to be as historic a British music venue as the Cavern Club in Liverpool, where the Beatles played early gigs. It also was the source for the name of the legendary American music magazine Crawdaddy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Scrump Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:46 AM Scrump- If Ken Colyer were still alive the old bugger would punch you in the mouth for even thinking he played "Over the points". It was of course the Bob Cort Skiffle Group Oops, of course you're right - sorry about that. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:48 PM Weelittledrummer - thank you!!!! It was the Rikki Tik I was trying to remember. Great - thanks again. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Joe Date: 30 Mar 07 - 10:45 PM What a lot of people forget the first british rock act to have a have number one album in the states was the Beatles in 1964 with Meet The Beatles. If anyone put British Rock and Roll on the map worldwide it was the Beatles. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 31 Mar 07 - 02:17 AM You're right. I forgot that. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 31 Mar 07 - 02:34 AM Going to see Marty Wilde at the Grimsby Auditorium 11/4/07. I'm gibbering already. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 31 Mar 07 - 04:02 AM Thats strange I am going as well. Bet you haven't got seats at the front Strollin'. Now Marty Wilde did some cracking numbers. Endless Sleep Donna Teenager In Love Bad Boy Sea Of Love Rubber Ball Danny I bought all of those singles, and I personnally think that they were better versions than any of the American versions. I hope I don't forget where I put my ticket. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:11 AM Marty's backing group had some future fairly famous members n'all. I would add "It's Been Nice" to The Villan's list. Marty Wilde came to the Ritz in Cleethorpes in the very early 60s on one of those a dozen acts for 5 bob shows. Oh, I quite liked "Jezebel" as well. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:34 AM Good excuse for you to come down to Lincolnshire FB :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:06 AM Sorry, mate. Too busy trying to move to Scotland. ATB from Charlie. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:30 AM Good luck with that Charlie. Are you going to buy the yellowbellies 2 CD before you go? :-) http://www.faldingworthlive.co.uk/yellowbellis_2_cd.htm Cheers Les |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 01 Apr 07 - 09:30 PM Villain and Strolling Johnny - envy you both!!!!! Donna and Endless Sleep were the two 'piece de resistance(s).....!' from my perspective......loved that man!! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Capn Birdseye Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:10 PM I'd say Johnny Kidd & The Pirates "Shakin' All Over" was the first great British rock n roll record. Tommy was destined to become "an all-round entertainer", Cliff soon turned to insipid songs & films, Adam was never a serious rock star (his "Lonley pup in a Christmas shop" just about sums it up!), and Marty just did American covers. For my money, Vince Eager & Dickie Pride were good but never quite made it, the latter dying young. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:12 PM I won't argue about 'Shakin' All Over' Cap'n. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:43 PM Roll on tomorrow. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 10 Apr 07 - 03:41 PM Cliff Bennett - who has been mentioned a few times - was the only pre-Beatles UK rock singer that I thought could rival the Americans. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:38 PM Cliff Bennett's version of Out of Time was wonderful. And yes to Johnny Kidd and the Pirates 'Shaking all over' being one of the best songs.....I called up our local golden oldies station once and asked for it to be played -- they only had the American version by ? (can't remember) but the host didn't seem to have heard of Johnny Kidd and the Pirates......poor man didn't know what he was missing..... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 11 Apr 07 - 12:02 AM Ian Dury "Sweet Gene Vincent" fuckin genius classic '45' !!!!!!!!!!! .. yeah !!!! ..and there was Shakey from Wales with amazing guitarists in his backing bands.. ..so the 70's weren't that bad for Brit rock 'n' roll..!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 11 Apr 07 - 03:14 AM PEDANT ALERT !! Chris Farlowe (another skiffler)did "Out Of Time" I'll get me anorak. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 11 Apr 07 - 03:40 AM LOL I think I will go and watch Marty Wilde tonight. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Capn Birdseye Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:07 AM I used to see Cliff Bennett & The Rebel Rousers at Burtons club, Uxbridge, in the early 1960's, they were a very under-rated group - Cliff had a great voice. Around the same time other regulars at Burtons were Brian Poole & The Tremeloes and Tony Rivers & The Castaways, not a patch on Cliff and the boys! Can't agree with "The Villan" (his posting 31st March) about Marty Wilde. He said that he preferred Marty's cover versions to the original American records - I thought the exact opposite, Marty was a Brit "trying" to be a yank and unfortunately not doing it well. It was pity his management put him on this path instead of finding some decent original material for him, they did him no favours! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:42 AM Well I'll tell you tomorrow what he was like tonight (if you know what I mean!). And I'm a hard man to please! (Ask Villan - he knows me well on that score!). |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Capn Birdseye Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:57 AM Scrump,you mentioned Klook's Kleek,which just made me think of The Macabre.Anybody go there? And the Witches Cauldron.Anyone? - posted by David Carter 20 Feb. .................................... Le Macabre - Do you mean the coffee house in Meard Street, Soho that had coffins as tables and skeletons on the walls - if so, went there many times to drink frothy coffee out of small see-through plastic shallow cups. ..................................... Link to the man who wrote "Move It" http://iansamwell.com/chapter1b.html ...................................... There was a club in Windsor that I was explicity forbidden to attend, therefore of course it was one of my favorite haunts...But the name escapes me. - posted by Trubrit 20 Feb. ...................................... You mean the famous Ricky Tick club! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:31 PM Oops -- I was thinking Chris Farlowe but typing Chris Bennett -- either way, a bloody good version of that song, and I agree that Cliff Bennett and the Rabble Rousers were quite underrated.....God it is getting bad when I can't remember the right names.....old age can be a bitch. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 12 Apr 07 - 02:00 AM >>And I'm a hard man to please! (Ask Villan - he knows me well on that score!). << He sure is, so a report from Strollin' will be honest. From my point of view, I enjoyed the evening very much. The songs were varied, and Marty covered a wide range of songs from the Rock & Roll era including Billy Fury/ Cliff Richard etc. The Wildcats backed Marty well. Marty did some songs with his daughter Roxanne (the youngest one). They were very good. Jet Harris was a surprise guest and he did a few numbers with the wildcats and I enjoyed that. My honest opinion is it was well worth seeing. Capn Birdseye - we just have to beg to differ :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:14 AM Joe Brown, the best guitarist of that bunch- if not the best singer- is on tour again. We're going to see him in Camberley next month, always does a good show. RtS |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:03 PM Marty was good - in fact great in view of his age (68). He did a range of songs, some his own but many by other performers, and made a very good job of most, if not all. Sad to say that Jet was not so good, the years have taken their toll and his playing was very hesitant. Roxanne Wilde is a real cutie, and proved to be a very capable singer - esp. in the duet 'Something Stupid' with dad. Not my favourite song but very well done, and lovely to see the glances and smiles of love and encouragement between proud dad and daughter. The Wildcats were just OK. Needed to be tighter, but a reasonably competent display. The audience was, as expected, 60-plus ladies who wished they were 18 again. There was a distinct smell of oestrogen in the air! :-) :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 12 Apr 07 - 01:32 PM LMAO Strollin' |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:33 PM Sounds like a wonderful evening......I saw the Everly brothers in Southampton some 12 years ago -- similarly composede audience I think!!!!!!!! Joe 'A picture of you' Brown -- always one of my favorites......hope he and Marty and the others are still around in about 8 years time -- I plan to live half the year in the US and half in the UK about then........ |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:42 AM Yep, Joe's another great Yellowbelly. His 'On A Day Like This' is one of my favourite albums. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: fat B****rd Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:34 PM Right there, Strollin'. I believe he was born in or near Grantham. (one or the other). He mentioned last time I saw him at Darlington that HIS family moved to London DURING the Blitz. I've liked him since "The Darktown Strutters Ball" |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rasener Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:45 PM I'llbe down to get you in rod car?honey :-) I have to laugh. I told my twin brother who lives in paignton about the Marty Wilde show and told him to get tickets for April the 20th becuase he is on at Torquay. So he booked 2 tickets for him and his wife on the Internet without his wife knowing. Anyway, I got an e-mail tonight from his wife saying - what am I going to do now. You told him to book tickets and I saw the e-mail confirming the booking when it was too late. I have already got tickets and he doesn't know - it was going to be a surprise. What a hoot :-) |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Janet Thresher Date: 20 Apr 07 - 12:11 PM I saw Vince Eager for the first time in 40 years at the 100 Club in January. He's still got it and what a voice. By far the best on the show. He's packing a bit of weight these days but he's looking well for a 67 year old. Great band as well. I think theyr'e his kids. I think he's also a Yellow Belly. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 23 Apr 07 - 09:37 AM Just in case anyone was going to see Joe Brown at Camberley in May- the Monday concert (7th ) has been cancelled -the Sunday 6th May is still on- just changed my tickets. RtS |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 23 Apr 07 - 03:27 PM I saw Vince Eager when he was supporting Jerry lee Lewis in a show back in 1962. I remember him striding on to the stage looking tall and handsome. I also recall that he got a great reponse from the girls in the audience. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 24 Apr 07 - 12:11 AM Yep, that's a Yellowbelly for yer! And I'll get exactly the same reaction when I stride on stage looking tall and handsome at Faldingworth Live in a couple of weeks. And no doubt the ladies will be slinging their Damart knickers at me.....................LOL! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:12 AM Us lads always made a point of going to our local nightclub when Jess Conrads was on. Shite singer, but oh how the women flocked in! Never did us any good of course. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,blindlemonsteve Date: 24 Apr 07 - 09:54 AM I have just got hold of a copy of "The Sound Of Fury", without a doubt the greatest and the first real british rock n roll album. I suggest you all get on ebay and buy a copy, you wont be dissapointed.... I went to see Joe Brown a few years ago, i felt sorry for him, here was a truly great guitar player with an exceptional talent, his talents were even admired by the greatest rock n roll star who ever lived "EDDIE COCHRAN". and he was playing daft songs to blue rinsed old ladies, who remember him when he was younger. i would say his talent went over the heads of nearly everyone in the audience. he should be up there with the Clapton and Paige as inspirational guitar players.....Just my opinion. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Capn Birdseye Date: 27 Apr 07 - 02:50 PM Anyone know what happened to Buddy Britten & The Regents? They did a great version of "If you gotta make a fool of somebody", a song that Freddie & The Dreamers made a hit. Reference was made to Jess Conrad, a good looking guy but in my opinion a hopeless singer - his record "This Pullover" sums him up - it made Kenny Everetts Worlds Worst Records LP. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Janet Thresher Date: 28 Apr 07 - 04:25 AM Buddy Britten was on at the 100 club with Vince Eager and Wee Willie Harris. He was OK but didn't rock my socks. Someone told me he lives in Jersey. Terry Wayne was also on. He looked fantastic for being in his late 60's. I understand he had cancer of the throat recently which may have accounted for his husky voice. But I really enjoyed him. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Capn Birdseye Date: 28 Apr 07 - 12:45 PM Janet, when you say you saw Vince Eager, Wee Willie Harris & Buddy Britten at the 100 Club, when was this? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Janet Thresher Date: 30 Apr 07 - 04:37 PM They were there in late January. It was a show celbrating 50 years since the 2 i's Coffee Bar opened. I understand they all started their careers there. It was a great night. Started about 5.00pm and went on until 11.00pm. I hope they do it again. It was a fab night with lots of happy memories. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Hanz Donnar Date: 14 May 07 - 03:23 AM Vince Eager I watched in the Eddie Cochran chippenham in England 2004. He und Charli Gracie the best on the show. Little Richard was disapointed. When can Vince und Charli come to Germany. Thank you Hanz |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,old farty Date: 17 May 07 - 06:02 PM Just discovered this conversation. So I will add my thoughts. Yes I agree that Move It and Shakin All Over both definitive British and probably best R & R records made in UK. But I must point out that no matter whether you think Tommy Steel's records were weak, he was still the first to play R & R in Britain. I personally think his version of Singing the blues was better than Guy Mitchell's, but I don't want to argue the point. He wrote a couple of nice songs as well, although not R & R. Some facts I think are true :- Joe Brown was the guitarist used for Sounds of Fury. Big Jim Sullivan was the lead in Marty Wildes Wildcats, although Uncle Bert did the Duane Eddy bit on Endless Sleep. Didn't Mike Pratt and Lionel Bart write Rock With The Cavemen. As a last thought Helen Shapiro's Walking Back To Happiness is always the one mentioned, but I always thought You Don't Know was a far superior record, but still not R & R. I'll get my cocoa now. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 17 May 07 - 10:28 PM Agreeed on Helen Shapiro -- You don't know me was excllent. Is she still in the world of entertainment .... anyone know? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,old farty Date: 19 May 07 - 03:08 AM She is an evangalist now. I saw her at a local church, and she belts out Gospel songs. Although I am not interested in religion I have to admit she certainly had a powerful voice. I think she still does a bit of jazz singing. Glad you agree with "You Don't Know" I thought I was alone on that one. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 19 May 07 - 02:35 PM Thanks so much for following up......she certainly had a voice to her.......I saw her in Slough at the Adelphi (naturally) when she headed a bill including Dave Berry (remember the Crying Game).... and - I think - The Swinging Blue Jeans. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 May 07 - 02:50 PM I really like Thin Lizzy's music. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Jim Lad Date: 19 May 07 - 02:51 PM Away ya daft bugger! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Old Farty Date: 02 Jun 07 - 05:04 AM Jim Lad don't be too hard on the lad. Phil Lynnot (?? I think that's right) was a devil of a bass player. as in previous discussion on Tommy Steele, lets recognise that people come and go in music, and put in their contribution. Obviously I am not including in this arguement Fabian, The Birdy Song or Gangster Rap. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Capn Birdseye Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:41 AM Re: Helen Shapiro. My sister who was working at St Thomas' Hospital near Waterloo, London got me a signed photo from her, she does a lot of charity support work that largely goes unnoticed. I agree with others on "You Don't Know". Anyone heard of the Chris Fender Black non-stop rock n roll tribute show - fantastic! Great tributes to Brenda Lee (Mel Vincent), Eddie Cochran (Lee Mason), Chuck Berry (Chris Black), Duane Eddy (Chris Fender Black), Ray Charles (Marshall Chapman), Connie Francis (Julie Paris), Buddy Holly (Mason Lee), Jerry Lee Lewis (Jerry Marshall), & Bill Haley (Lee Mason). |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,old farty Date: 10 Jun 07 - 05:42 AM You all have extremely good taste. I have just found out "You Don't Know" was Helen Shapiro's favourite, although she still has to trot out "Walking Back To Happiness".Not heard of the Chris Fender thing, I'll look them up. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:55 PM Do you remember a rockabilly group called The Preachers with Darren something on lead. He could play like Scotty Moore . there is a rockabilly circuit in England and I hear he's with another group. Its pretty stunning music. I don't know any of the songs they sing, but the audience do. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Juanita Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:40 PM I remember the Witches Cauldron well. It was in the basement of Conrad's something or other. 1965. There was a group that played there regularly with a girl singer. They made an record or maybe an album. There was a wonderful harmonica player that sometimes played there. The name of the drummer was Gerry and I thought one of the guitarists was named Carmichael. The group once played for intermission for the Yardbirds and/or The Who (trying hard to remember here...) I remember a black man named Ram John who sang a song called "Big Bamboo", lol. Can someone help with names here? |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:35 PM if some of you old lost Teds and Rockers need a good time haven of golden vintage memories and friendly club nights out and weekenders.. check out http://billyfury.com/phpBB2/ |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Juanita from US Date: 24 Jun 07 - 12:00 AM It was Conrad's Bistro. I was madly in love with Brian. I think his name was Brian Padfield. He whisked me around from club to club (some all nighters) for some months. There was a club in Hampstead called the Moulin Rouge. I don't know about friendly, but crazy it was for sure. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 24 Jun 07 - 03:21 AM Ram John Holder? And anyone remember Emile Ford & the Checkmates? RtS |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Rog Peek Date: 24 Jun 07 - 03:29 AM Yea, I do. 'Wha'dya Wanna Make Those Eyes At Me For' and 'Slow Boat to China' |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Dave Roberts Date: 24 Jun 07 - 04:30 AM I've just come across this thread, and was interested to read the comments about Mike 'Come Outside'Sarne. I recently found out that the successful and distinguished film director Michael Sarne is one and the same person. Odd, really. I had seen references to 'Michael Sarne the film director' before and vaguely noted the similarity in the name but never thought that it might be the same person. I don't know why, as he has always been an actor and moved in film and TV circles. Incidentally,he also had minor hits with 'Will I Wot?' featuring (I think) Billie Davis on Wendy Richard duties (perhaps Wendy was not available?) and the excellent 'Just For Kicks', a song about ton-up boys having 'burn ups' on their bikes. Apologies if all this has been mentioned before. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 24 Jun 07 - 05:27 PM I have heard Come Outside and Will I Wot -- but never Just for Kicks.........it is interesting to know what he is currently doing..... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Juanita from US Date: 24 Jun 07 - 06:50 PM Ram John Holder it is! I just checked out his bio here: http://www.screenonline.org.uk/people/id/536168/index.html. I dated him for awhile. I never knew he went on to be rather famous! Our friendship was around 1965-66. He had a twin brother that came over that I didn't know of. He was surprised when I approached him in a rather intimate manner! Ram John was a terribly nice and sweet human being. Still is, no doubt. Thanks for that memory! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Juanita from US Date: 25 Jun 07 - 09:21 AM How about the song "Bring your love back Home" ? The group (whose name escapes me) did cut it in around '65/'66. Also a marvelous harmonica player, a single performer. He played a half dozen harmonicas at once -- he was excellent!! He looked a bit like a street bum but could he ever make his harmonica sing! Any hits??? Thanks so much for refreshing my memory. I do so miss by ol' London friends ... "Ginger" |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 25 Jun 07 - 05:02 PM Emile was a great performer! I listend to him in the Hamburg "Star Club" known by The Beatles in the early 60'. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Capn Birdseye Date: 06 Jul 07 - 01:17 PM Had an electrican in the other week to do a bit of work. Got talking to him and he turned out to be Pete Staples, the ex-bass player in The Troggs! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Goose Gander Date: 06 Jul 07 - 01:24 PM Makes me want to dig up my original pressing mono version of the first LP - the guitars positively growl and the drums are loud as hell, the CD remix did it no justice. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: RalphtheRapier Date: 29 Jul 07 - 09:46 AM Notice a lot of interest in Mike Sarne of "Come Outside" fame. Good news is that Mike is making a rare appearance as a special guest on Jet Harris' "Me And My Shadows" show at the Wyllyotts Theatre, Potters Bar on November 3. As Billie Davis is also on the bill they will be doing their hit "Will I What". Plus Mike is doing his motorbiking hit "Just For Kicks" complete with bike on stage! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: TRUBRIT Date: 01 Aug 07 - 11:16 PM That would be a great show -- wish I were there!!!! 8 more years until I spend half a year ine England...... |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Janet Thresher Date: 04 Sep 07 - 10:43 PM Just ordered a book by Vince Eager called 'Vince Eager's Rock n' Roll Files'. Should be good. I heard him plugging it on the radio over the weekend. I'll try and find out more and let you all know. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,jimbo Date: 05 Sep 07 - 09:05 AM Pre order Vince's book 'VINCE EAGER'S ROCK 'n' ROLL FILES' Available from 8th October 2007 price £11.99 + £2.00 P & P from here |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Janet Thresher Date: 16 Oct 07 - 10:18 AM I saw the postman for the first time in 6 days when he called to deliver Vince Eager's book. It's excellent. Not your usual biog It's full of hilarious stories and also some sad ones such as Eddie Cochran's death, but it's well worth the read. Great photos and cartoons make it one of my favourite show biz books ever, and I've read many. |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Bonzo3legs Date: 16 Oct 07 - 03:57 PM The lead guitar on Shakin' all Over was slightly out of tune! One of the best bands I never saw was Nero & the Gladiators, with fine singles like Hall of the Mountain King and Czardas - or Charred Arse as Lord Sutch's Savages referred to it! |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 17 Oct 07 - 05:22 AM The guy who sometimes played in the Witches was probably Mox Gowland.We used to jam for hours round his place.We did a few things up at the Moon And Sixpence. Mox lives about 40 klms from where I am. We all get together occasionaly for an afternoon of food and music. Nothing changes! David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: Leadbelly Date: 17 Oct 07 - 05:28 PM May it go on like this as long as possible, David. Wish you very happy moments, Manfred |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: David C. Carter Date: 18 Oct 07 - 04:27 AM Leadbelly,thanks for that.We'll do our best. Were you at any of the above mentioned venues by the way,anytime? Cheers David |
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Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll From: GUEST,Janet Thresher Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:08 AM I've now read Vince's book twice and haven't laughed so much for a long time. If you like rock n roll and a good old laugh then it's the book for you. I met him at a book signing last week and he signed my book and his cartoonist friend derw my cartoon in it. Brilliant. A great Christma gift. Janet |
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