Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose

Subject: Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose
From: Ralph Butts
Date: 09 Mar 97 - 05:13 PM

Interested in earlier threads involving these songs. Can anyone provide info regarding: Authorship, year of origin, etc. Someone said that Red is the Rose was earlier, but both used a melody that was older still. Any other songs with that melody?

Given the tone of Loch Lomond, esp. regarding the "low road" return of the spirit to home, I always wondered why people sing usually sing this song in an such ebulliant, hi-ho, back-slapping manner. It's a truly sad song and should be presented accordingly. Ditto for Red is the Rose.

Any info greatly appreciated. Thanks...Tiger

Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Mar 97 - 08:26 PM

I heard Joe Heany sing Red Is The Rose, maybe 15 yearsa ago. He reported his source as being his Grandfather, and thought it to be older than Loch Lomond. Joe's version is slightly different from Tommy Makem's in wording and there's more embelishment also.I've never heard of another song using these melodys.

Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose
From:
Date: 11 Mar 97 - 02:01 AM

Here's what my source says:

First appeared in print in 1840's as new words to the old air "Kind Robin lo'es me." Taken down by Sir John and Lady Scott from "a poor little boy who was singing on the streets of Edinburgh" in the 1820s. May date to the 1740s, referring to the hurried retreat of Bonnie Price Charlie from his English campaign.

If this chronology is correct, it would turn to pure supposition much of the interpretation I've read about the "high road" and "low road," etc.

Jeff Walker

Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose
From: Alex
Date: 11 Mar 97 - 02:48 AM

There is another song, "The Heidless Cross" by George Weir which begins, "Red is the rose that blooms sae braw, Where yorlins sing sae clearly, Grey is the cross that's shorn in twa', where yince we lo'ed sae dearly." Recorded by the Corries on "Strings and Things". Does this sound anything like the song you are looking for.

Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose
From: Ralph Butts
Date: 11 Mar 97 - 05:41 PM

DT has 2 versions of "Red is the Rose". #2 is essentially as I heard it by Liam Clancy. Same melody as Loch Lomond.

Does anyone know the heritage of "Red is the Rose" or the earlier tunes mentioned?

...Tiger

(Click here for related thread on "Red Is the Rose"

Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose
From: Barry Finn
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 06:51 PM

Refresh
there's a new thread on this so I thought I'd bring this back up

Barry

Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 03:45 PM

I want some of what he's smoking!

Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/Red is the Rose
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:21 PM

There is an old thread on this which I guess Malcolm Douglas can find. The source Lady John Scott's boy singer used is traceable - it's a broadside of 1820 by John Sanderson of Edinburgh, one of several British broadside-mongers to call their business "The Poet's Box". If somebody gives me a round tuit I can go find it, there are two obvious places to look.

Given its content and style there is no way the Irish song can be earlier than Sanderson. The tune was published by Nathaniel Gow in 1819, which is presumably how it came to Sanderson's attention.