BS: Britons shall be slaves?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 07:09 AM

It is not acceptable in a post beginning "Judging by the standards of written language"; it is an error of written language, whatever you may say, Mr H.

Thread drift is scarcely unprecedented on this forum, is it? And it's you who have 'accomplished' it, not we, by persisting in arguing with Eliza and me over a matter in which we knew better. You still haven't furnished a respectable example of what you claim, inaccurately, to be a correct and accepted usage.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 06:29 AM

OK, show me where it's not acceptable - btw you've succeeded in accomplishing thread drift!

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 06:09 AM

Sorry, Mr Happy, but 'some've' is not an accepted abbreviation. The apostrophe should be replacing a deleted letter or letters. 'Some of' , no matter which letters one deletes, cannot end up as 'some've'.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:54 AM

Oh! By whom? Provide me with a respectable precedent, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:46 AM

MtheGM,

Clearly, your English language skills are incomplete.

'Some've' is an accepted abbreviation for 'Some of' in the same way that 'I've' 'I'll' 'We'll' are accepted forms of written or spoken word

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:31 AM

If you set yourself up as a judge of the language of posts, Mr Happy ~~

"Some of the posts".

"Some've the posts" is meaningless.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:15 AM

Judging by the standards of written language in some've the posts, I'd hazard a guess that given proper investment & commitment by govt. there's real potential for workers in remedial literacy skills

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:08 AM

"Why is it fair when polish wokers come in their droves to do jobs work that these leeches on society refuse to get out of bed to do.?"

OK, I give in! What's a "polish woker"? A worker who polishes woks ... possibly? Presumably, all the Chinese restaurants are experiencing a dire shortage of wok polishers (sorry - polish wokers!) and are having to bring them in from abroad. Surely enough British worker/shirkers could be found to do this for nothing?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:06 AM

The Jobcentreplus site has many questionnable 'jobs' on offer. My husband took up one last week. (Minimum wage, £6.08ph, part-time only to avoid various obligations on their part) It was a very shady 'hotel' (more like a dosshouse) Given a bottle of neat bleach and told to wipe out toilets with his bare hands using the handtowel in each room. Filthy place, demoralised and very young staff. The 'manager' looked like an extremely dodgy used-car salesman. My husband rang me and I came and fetched him away. These people know that the jobless will take almost anything, and they are, in one word, Exploitative. I feel that Poundland (and others) see the present economic climate as a jolly good way to get workers for nothing (or next to nothing). My heart went out to the poor little lass and a grubby lad (both coughing) who continued to trudge round with their bleach bottle and a clapped-out vacuum cleaner. We've gone back to Dickens in his blacking factory!

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:52 AM

Yes...well..you have just proved that mr.leveller.....aint you?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:48 AM

Ah well, they say small things please small minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,ever been had?
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:48 AM

Nah John..... You are reading to much into this...refer my early post.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:44 AM

I've a strong suspicion that trolls such as 'insensible chap' are in reality stooges of far right/govt propaganda orgs, who scour sites like this, hoping to promulgate their urban myths aka lies in order to try to discredit truths such as I've titled this topic

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:44 AM

tee hee...!

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:40 AM

There is a typically Mudcat-ian hyperbole in the thread title. I realise the aptness of the deliberately tendentious misquotation OK; but to denounce expecting or requiring someone to contribute a bit of labour in return for benefits received as "slavery" is an idiotic exaggeration and overreaction, and a gross discourtesy to those who have actually had [and in some parts of the world still have] to live in conditions of real slavery.

It might arguably, depending on one's pov, perhaps be regarded as a bit exploitative...

...but "SLAVERY"! Away you!...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:34 AM

You're right, John. Haven't had an argument for days and was just getting withdrawal symptoms :) Pity it wasn't with a more articulate opponent.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,ever been had?
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:33 AM

Got all you smarty pants going though didnt he?... And gave me some of the best laughs ever on mudcat. To see all you smug self rightouse so called intelligent clowns rise to his bait! !!
Come on people chillax lfe is hard enough. ..lets all have a little snigger now and thenat ouselves.. eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:27 AM

Leveller, Richard - absolutely spot on on all counts. Ignore Insensitive C**t, he's a windup merchant and a wanker. The best way to deal with wind-up merchants and wankers is to ignore them

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:26 AM

one day you will all wake up.....then you'll be sorry.

.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:23 AM

GUEST,sensible chap: " I thinkyou are all missing the point. These people are already getting morE.money for shirking than some people are for working."



Nobody is missing the point. Although, if anyone is, I think it's you. If people are getting more money for "shirking" than others are for working, you've identified a serious problem but picked the wrong target to whinge about. If you resent the amount of housing benefit that is paid - which, incidentally, goes straight to the landlord and recipients never actually see the money - then you want to question house prices and rents. Speculative buy-to-let landlords, high on 'property porn' TV, and governments over the last 30 years are to blame here not housing benefit recipients - the majority of whom are actually in work anyway. More housing, which is desperately needed, would sort this problem out. The problem is, home owners who are expecting massive returns on buying houses in the 1980s and 1990s, and maybe even the last decade, are unwilling to take the hit on any house 'value' following large-scale building programmes.

The real issue is not that benefits are too high, it's that wages are too low. The fact that working tax credits have ever existed is an acknowledgement of this, albeit a benefit that really supports/subsidises employers rather than employees.

"Why else can they afford the things i have outlined as well spending their days in the pubs and betting shops and their nights clubbing?"

Again, a nonsense. Sit down with a pen and paper, remove gas/electric/water/food/travel (necessary for job interviews &c)/phone (ownership of is expected at JobCentre &c) and see how much is left for "days in the pubs" and "nights clubbing" and whatever fantasy lifestyle you believe the jobless are living.

"Why is it fair when polish wokers come in their droves to do jobs work that these leeches on society refuse to get out of bed to do.?"

See my other post above. It's farcical to try and compare Poles and other Eastern Europeans to Britain's jobless. Many Poles themselves believe this myth that Poles can come here and find work on every corner. The fact that it isn't the case has lead to the creation of charities specifically for homeless Poles who can't find work or housing here. I have contact with Poles on a regular basis who are looking for voluntary work (hoping it will somehow lead to paid work) as they can't find paid employment in this country. The living/working conditions of many Poles in this country aren't 'do-able' long-term. Seasonal work is just that, and many contracts are temporary. The Poles in my town (and I know a fair few) literally live 6 or 7 to a single bed flat, squirrelling money away for short periods before going home. They don't expect to do it on a long-term basis as, long-term, they want flats/homes to themselves with regular, 'normal' work.

Also, if people don't have the skills that some Poles have and therefore can't do some of the work Poles do, then it's not necessarily the fault of the jobless either. A classic example is building work. A lot of councils ended their apprenticeship schemes in the late 1980s and starting tendering out building work to private firms which meant a traditional avenue for that kind of training was lost. This meant that local colleges then had to take up students wanting to go down that vocational training route. This created waiting lists of *years* to get on these kinds of courses. In the mean time, by the 1990s, businesses and government are telling everyone that computer-based skills are the new boom sectors so 'old-fashioned' vocational training is pared down at colleges. Years on, we're seeing a cull in ostensibly computer-driven office work (thanks to the government's 'non-jobs' narrative) and much IT/programming outsourced abroad. Since the 1980s loads of industries and employment areas have pretty much vanished in this country along with the training to do them and a lot of whatever was created to replace them is now going the same way (or at least to India). And yet, somehow, you still seem intent on blaming the unemployed themselves? Ridiculous.

"Iam all for a fair shake but some of these unemployable homineds can trace there unemployment. . Or lack of it back three generations."

For now, the numbers of generationally unemployed are very, very small. Practically neglible. Until the last couple of years, the amount of job-seekers out of work for 12 months or more was far lower than people most people expect.

"work you slackers work!!!!"

I see this kind of comment all over the internet. Yet whenever I ask anyone (of working age) are there jobs going at their place, no one has ever said 'yes'. Invariably, when people are pushed on this, either people are being laid-off or there's a recruitment freeze.

If people are to work, there has to be jobs. And if there's jobs, then people should be paid a living wage. Benefits aren't that.

Anyway, last post on this as you're either a troll or some 'just world' Randroid fantasist.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:18 AM

Just read some of the comments from our little troll friend above. Absolutely hilarious! He doesn't like unemployed people, doesn't like graduates, doesn't like managers, and anyone who doesn't share his right-wing views is a commie (not very original that, trolly). Poor chap has so many chips on his shoulder he should open a fish shop.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:17 AM

Well, if you all are going to be offensive. Is that the way they teach you to argue st university. In a free society we are all.entitled to our opinionsyou lot are to smug and self centered to enter into proper debate.lets see your names abnd adresses and employers. You make me sick. I am a hard working labouring labour supporting person who does lots of unpaid voluntary work in my community. And just want to see some fair play that is all.seeing layabouts who wouldnt work even if it was hsnded on plate..and then sneer at us hard grafters makes mybile rise.

Subject: RE: BS: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 03:32 AM

The sheme is, as with most of this incompetent government's policies, completely self-defeating. If someone is working 30 hours a week, what time left is there for them to look for proper work? This, as anyone who has actually done it will know, a full-time occupation. Thirty hours a week for the Jobseeker's Allowance of £57 a week is, as I'm sure even someone as profoundly ignorant as the troll GUEST: Stupid Twat should be able to work out, a fraction of the minimum wage. Perhaps said troll would like to change places and let someone more deserving enjoy his cushy little job whilst he tries to survive on a pittance. No? Thought not - typical tory supporter, all mouth and no balls.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:38 PM

Hmmm That didn't come out right. I was saying that if they didn't take the offered job they could be booted.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:27 PM

They are menial tasks? I was hoping they were upgrades, training for different/better positions. If a clerk, say, is out of a job and has to go push a broom in some factory in order to qualify for continued unemployment support, I would agree most definitely that it is demeaning and shortsighted. If however, the clerk was put to work learning computer repair, for instance, I'd say that it is a step upward.

In the USA in order to retain unemployment benefits, claimants are required to actively seek work and if offered work that is comparable in skills and pay to what they had trained for or had experience in, they can be booted off the benefits.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:11 PM

unless you are born to wealth or are very lucky (and drop dead on your last day of work) at some points in your life you and your family will rely on the state. why support governments to dismantle it and discredit those who work for it and need it?

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 06:06 PM

mg - here in England the involuntary jobs are not additional work in the public sector. They are menial tasks in for profit enterprises. There is no justifying it.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:59 PM

I think we need public works projects and would expect to be on one if I should become unemployed...in fact I am only 3/4 time and would love to just be placed on one for 1/4 time. If they are well managed, and this is a big if (but certainly some of the unemployed could be potentially good managers) we could use some of the same money we are now spending, supplement it so there is a reward, employ people, especially the chronically unemployed and those who have given up, those who are not competitive in today's job market..and solve all sorts of social problems at the same time. Parks need maintaining, children need daycare, elders need care, libraries need cleaning, trash needs picking up. These things are not sufficiently taken care of now and for the near future at least it is not taking away a union job etc. We need to screen of course, but many people could be chore workers for disabled etc... We need to have a group of adults and older teens who expect to work and provide for their families. I am for giving them as much support in this as possible..we need a high ratio of workers to people who are unable to work for economic and societal reasons...Hours could be flexible depending on person's vigor, age, health, activity in looking for jobs. Many problems are solveable. My family survived in the depression by doing public works and I would expect to do the same.mg

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:41 PM

if you are out of work you get £65 ish pounds a week - food, heating bills and everything else. if you qualify for housing benefit your landlord will receive the bulk of it from the state. it is not a lot. we have 3 kids with degrees and they work hard -retail, child care, bar work -on very low wages- they have no realistic prospect of ever being able to afford to buy a house, have large debts and are destined to paying wicked landlords stupid amounts of money for the foreseeable. i have worked most of my life with some periods out of work. i now work long hours in a care job for just over the minimum wage. we have betrayed a generation of young people and carelessly thrown away the security of a properly functioning welfare state that, with a less aggressive capitalism, provided (nearly) everyone with a home and a health service-a job and some degree of security. those of you 'hard working' types who sneer at those less fortunate than yourselves and blame them for existing are beneath contempt. i would like to be able to ignore you -obviously you crave attention-and would want to feel compassion to everyone but here i am again, buttons pressed and wasting my time stating the bleedin' obvious for people not interested in even trying to think how life may be for others. far more benefits go unclaimed than are paid out as a result of fraudulent claims.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 04:35 PM

Well said leveller.

And as for Captain Sensible - you tell others to provide evidence - yet hide who you are. You say you work. I don't believe you. You are another adherent of the jackbooted scum who fraudulently claim yet accuse any of a different skin colour of parasitism no matter how hard they work. And accuse those on acres of hopeless jobless estate of avoiding work when there are no jobs for them to do.

If you want us to give you any credence, tell us your true name, your address, your job, and the name and address of your employer.

You and your clones know who I am and what I do. Don't hide in the shadows, coward.

Keith - if people are doing a job, pay them a proper wage. The workfare regime provides free workers to capitalists. Every such worker prevents another worker having a paying job. Even you can see that that is unjust. But it is also counterproductive as it reduces the velocity of circulation of money (to keep it simple for you I'll explain, the rich have a greater marginal propensity to save than the poor so extra money in the hands of the poor creates more economic growth than extra money in the hands of the rich) so reducing any tendency to economic growth. There is only one explanation: spite.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 03:35 PM

No cretin, no troll, just someone who is hardworking who probably speaks for the majority of hardworking people of this country... oh excluding those self rightouse pseudo commies who tossed it of at university for three years and then got a nice comfy job in management

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 03:12 PM

guest sensible chap in my humble opinion is a troll just having a laugh
at us, lets face it no-one could really be such a cretin.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:56 PM

So just uninformed opinion then?

Incidently there are plenty of cases of tax evasion for you to research, both corporate and personal. And, I assure you, the amounts involved make the cases of benefit fraud (whic I also deplore) look like chicken feed.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:44 PM

"Nothing to get up for¨ my arseif we all had said that in 1939 we would now be living under the nazi ajckboot

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:40 PM

"I thinkyou are all missing the point.These people are already getting morE.money for shirking than some people are for working"

Er no, stupid toryboy, it's you who is missing the point. You're talking total shit like the rest of your rightie crew - get out and find out what it's like in the real world. My son, having worked his balls off for 3 years to get a 2.1 at uni, comes out with a debt of over £20,000,to say nothing of the over £18,000 it's cost us and his grandmother, gets £57 a week - or would do if they ever got round to paying him as they're 6 weeks behind. He spends most of working hours applying for jobs, doing telephone interviews, attending face-to-face interviews and he still hasn't been able to get close to any job. So you expect him to go out and, in addition, work 30 hours a week at some dead-end job. Well, just fuck off you ignorant, selfish tory twat because it isn't going to happen.

Oh, and why not tell you useless, incompetent government to sortthe country out - probably by getting rid of useless thick scum like you.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:39 PM

If you are not claiming job-seekers' allowance, they can't ask you to take such work.
This girl was doing voluntary work, but many young unemployed have nothing to get up for, and that is unhealthy.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:34 PM

Research, forsooth!!! results of that is everywere.....your Hull for example Les..Bransholme, Orchard Park, North hull estate, cornbeef island.. wall to wall.dossers..wont work. Cant work cant make me and two fingers to the rest of us hard working stiffs...I rest my case...

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,thick as pig shit chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:33 PM

Oh yes....!! birch & flog all the lazy scroungers back into work !!!

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:23 PM

Oh no....!! Not that old pseudo socialist claptrap about tax evaders again.if you earn loads you pay loads.If you aint doing that you are breaking the law and if you know they are doing it, name names, else you are going along with this lawbreaking..put up or shut up "comrade"

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:15 PM

'I think you all are missing the point'. That's how democracy works - the majority view is the one that prevails. I presume that you are presenting your views based on scientific study. I would dearly love to see the results of your work.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:10 PM

[quote]
..hard working employers who pay vast amounts of tax to float the boat.
[/quote]
What fucking planet are you on. Employers are dodging tax through highly suspect offshore operations and sending our jobs to Bangalore.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,sensible chap
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:22 PM

I thinkyou are all missing the point.These people are already getting morE.money for shirking than some people are for working.Why else can they afford the things i have outlined as well spending their days in the pubs and betting shops and their nights clubbing? How can we hope to achieve a fair society when this nanny statism is allowed to continue? Why is it fair when polish wokers come in their droves to do jobs work that these leeches on society refuse to get out of bed to do.? Iam all for a fair shake but some of these unemployable homineds can trace there unemployment. . Or lack of it back three generations.Let us see more fair play... Stop blaming the government...hard working employers who pay vast amounts of tax to float the boat... Andlets have less of this soppy sloppy thinking...work you slackers work!!!!

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:20 PM

If a recipient of benefits is able to work, I see no objection to requiring him to work in compensation for the benefits.

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 12:02 PM

Nice?

Man?

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:44 AM

To quote another song, perhaps off topic.

'When will they ever learn......?'

The answer is never. It's part of human nature to exploit each other. Call it inbred greed, whatever you like, but it's there. That doesn't stop the nobler amongst us from trying to restrict it, but whatever we do it re-emerges elsewhere.

Defeatist Steve.

PS, didn't that nice man, Dave somebody or other, say he didn't expect his housekeeper to work for peanuts?

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:36 AM

......& disabled people too!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19046447

They'll be re-introducing the Poor Law & workhouses next

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:34 AM

Rule Brittania, Brittania rules the waves,
In the year 2012 Britons shall be slaves.

The person who wrote Rule Brittania must be spinning in the grave.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:31 AM

It's a typical tory ploy, force people to work for their rich friends for nowt, we call them ' slaves '

It's the same the whole world over,
It's the poor wot gets the blame,
And the rich wot gets the pleasure,
Aint it all a fucking shame.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: GUEST,16 tons
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:30 AM

hmmm.. an effective legal Govt endorsed way of circumventing 'Minimum Pay' levels ???

Subject: RE: Britons shall be slaves?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:02 AM

Where can I get one of these Government slaves? I've got loads of housework they could be doing. Perhaps they are only available to them big firms that support the Government.

'Gaining valuable skills and experience' my arse! There's nothing that Poundland could teach you that would take more than half an hour. Except poor English skills. 'Everything's a Pound'. Its 'each thing's a pound', you pillocks.