BS: Tories just short of a majority

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:12 AM

If you had read Emmas post Paco you would ave noticed that whether its in red pink blue or green, the restrictions you have talked about only exist in your imagination.

So if you keepblithering on about them you're going to make yourself look like an idiot.


On the subject of Clegg/Brown ...


Heres a quick link .


How are the labour party going to react? will they allow brown to keep them out of power? ...

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Emma B
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:08 AM

"My point is that what used to be everyday common activities are now 'illegal'"

MY point is that you are talking bollox!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:04 AM

Emma doesn't like red, how about blue? Just listen to yourselves!!! My point is that what used to be everyday common activities are now 'illegal'. The shocking thing for me is that you ALL AGREE with these new petty laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:01 AM

BACK ON TOPIC ...


Looks like Clegg's demands to labour go further than PR.

He's holding out because he wants Brown to stand down.

So if it is to be a Lib Lab pact, we will probably see Brown abdicate and Milliband come through.

Brown got very upset about this and gave Clegg an earful.

So Clegg is threatening him with a Tory Lib pact as Cameron is allegedly taking a respectful and constructive approach.

So it may all be down to whether Brown is prepared to give way or not.

This could be Cleggs Bridge too far and might backfire on him, but if this gamble succeeds, it would be quite a coup.


So prepare for the possibility of a Lib/Lab pact with Milliband as PM

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Emma B
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:01 AM

"I do some gardening for an old lass in the next village now and then, I always take my trusty lock knife with me (5inch blade)"

That's very public spirited of you and I'm sure you will be reieved to know that you are not breaking any laws

The Criminal Justice Act (1988) says that you may carry a knife with a blade length of 3.0" or less so long as it is capable of folding. That means no fixed blade knives

However, you may carry a larger knife if you have 'reasonable cause'.
That means that you must be able to prove that you had a genuine reason for carrying the knife.

You may carry a larger cutting tool if it is associated with your work (for instance a chef may carry a 9.0" butchers knife roll to and from work), or if it is associated with your sport, (for instance a fisherman may carry a 6.0" fillet knife, or a hunter may carry a 4.0" fixed blade hunting knife).

I would recommend however that you don't continue to carry a knife used as gardening tool to your local football match or even dropping in on the pub on your way home

Knives Act 1997

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 08:54 AM

Yes - Thank you Emma for correcting another Lie.

As for carrying a 5" blade ...

...Why?

I need to use a knife and fork to eat ... but why would i carry them around?

I need to use a saw from time to time ...

But why would I habitually conceal one on my person?

Garden trowels are invaluable things.

But why would i complain if i wasn't allowed to go out in public with one in my pocket?

It would make no difference to my life.

So whats the big deal about a ban on carrying a concealed lock knife?

Why is it needed?

It isn't.

Why is it banned?

Well now lets think about that shall we ... DUH!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 10 - 08:47 AM

Ta Ta Gordon and Harriet Harperson, hello common sense.

So it was common sense to wreck British industry as the Thatcher administration did? It was common sense to go to war with Argentina when we didn't need to? It was common sense to de-nationalise transport?

Come off it. All governments make unpopular decisions. It is the nature of the beast. Maybe if some people stopped reading the Daily Mail and Sun, or at least stopped believing the crap they print, we could get a bit of common sense.

Barmy by name...

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Emma B
Date: 08 May 10 - 08:36 AM

Jusr because someone posts something in red doesn't make it true and I would suggest a simple look at current child protection legislation.

There certainly are some sensible limitations on children away from home on sport trips etc sharing a room with a coach for example and some local authorities have been accused of being too tigid om allowing children in residential care or foster care to stay with friends overnight unless their friends' parents or carers had been police checked through the Criminal Records Bureau

Official Ofsted policy states

" It has never been government policy that friends' parents have to be police checked."

"Unless a court order or the child's care plan requires otherwise, children's home staff and foster carers can decide whether to allow or refuse each request to sleep over, according to the circumstances (for example, whether they know the family and what exactly is being proposed), just as any parent does, without any requirement for police checks.

They should, as any reasonable parent would, have the contact details of where the child is staying, confirm arrangements with the parents/carers beforehand, and make sure the young person has the means of calling home if they need to."

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 08 May 10 - 08:19 AM

Oh yes. Every idiot should be allowed to carry a 5" blade around with them at all times - you know it makes sense. And why shouldn't peidophiles be alloed to babysit 7 year old girls?

Sounds good to me.

(Idiot)

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:59 AM

I do some gardening for an old lass in the next village now and then, I always take my trusty lock knife with me (5inch blade)
            Our neighbours daughter (7yr old) often stays overnight with us on a weekend as she has three brothers and gets sick to death of them.

   Both of the above activities are'crimes' under New Labour laws. Ta Ta Gordon and Harriet Harperson, hello common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Emma B
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:33 AM

"I don't see how in conscience the LDs could accept...."

Unfortunately these inducements (or bribes) are aimed at the leadership and not the rank and file party members or, indeed, the people who voted for them believing they were a viable alternative to the tories

The argument goes that because of the number of seats the Lib-Dems would not have to enter into a full coilition with the Tories as they would have to with the Labour Party.
As such they would only need to abstain to allow legislation to pass and could claim subsequently, but maybe not in all sincerity, that they didn't vote for it.

I'm inclined to agree with Richard that the effect on the parlimentary and national party of such an alliance would ultimately be more harmful than any short term gain of a place in government.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:04 AM

If they gave Cable the chancellorship - an interesting possibility. I don't see how the conservatives can buy into a mansion tax to finance tax relief for the poor without upsetting their core vote - nor indeed how they could buy into closing tax loopholes when they too are core to the conservative belief (as that odious American woman said - "only little people pay taxes"). And I don't see how the LDs could in conscience accept the conservative position on such things.

I don't see how the LDs could in conscience accept such an obvious stall as an X-party commission on voting reform.

I don't see how in conscience the LDs could in conscience accept the conservative mantra of "cuts now" when they have said that excessive cuts too soon could jeopardise the recovery - but we know that the immediate axe on the poor is a conservative axiom.

I don't see how in conscience the LDs could accept conservative militarism - but the conservatives will never scrap trident.

In short, the only explanation I can see for any conservative/LD discussions is that Clegg is simply trying to climb the greasy pole. It's a power grab for power's sake and if Clegg does do it surely it will blow the LDs apart.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: MikeL2
Date: 08 May 10 - 06:33 AM

hi

I am reading ( Daily Extress ) that Clegg is reported to have been offer the post of Deputy Prime Minister by the Tories.

If this is true ( doubtful) will Clegg be able to turn it down??

In the same article Huhne has been earmarked for the Home Secretary job. Looks like some Tory noses will be pushed out of joint if it were to happen.

IMHO the only Libdem to put into the Cabinet should be Vince Cable ( if only to get rid of Osborne ) but he will not be chosen - you can guarantee that.

Hey ho.....happy days are here agian....

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 08 May 10 - 06:15 AM

This result is far better than we, Labour people, ever hoped for and may turn out to be the best thing in the long run for Lib Dems and the general left and centre left.

Celibrate .......... erm probably

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: s&r
Date: 08 May 10 - 05:09 AM

How many people voted Tory because Murdoch told them to?

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:58 AM

Hi Smiler - where have you been for the past few weeks?

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:56 AM

Silas
That doesn't make sense. If people wanted to stop the Cons, winning, all they had to do was vote Labour.
Sadly, voting for LibDem was like voting for a quarter of a seat and consequently allowed the Cons to get more seats.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:49 AM

Old Cleggie will upset a lot of his voters if he jumps into bed with slimey dave - a lot of voted Lib Dem to keep the buggers out, not to put 'em in!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:27 AM

Oddly, jug-ears Windsor often talks a lot of sense, and the wily old constitutional lawyer on the gold chair nearly always gets it right!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Stu
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:26 AM

The plain truth here is most of the electorate voted for left or centre-left parties:

Labour won 29% of the vote, the Lib Dems 23% - 52% of the vote excluding the smaller parties which are virtually all left of centre with the exception of the DUP.

This means 52% of the voting electorate believe in socially democratic politics, as opposed to the 36% of Tory voters still clinging to the outdated politics of self. That is a mandate for a Lib-Lab coalition and I'm hoping that's how it will pan out. The utter rejection of right-wing politics is heartening, and I hope Clegg has the wisdom to see the time for a new progressive political system is here and he could never achieve that with the Conservative party.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Acorn4
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:16 AM

Gordon Brown is playing his cards very wisely on not appearing to want to hold onto power at all costs.

The Labour vote did not collapse, and there is solid bedrock for a fightback. Although Blair went completely off the rails over Iraq, it has now been proved that a Labour government can run the economy, which was always in doubt before; now it's the Tories ability to do this that people are questioning, and that reflects the enormity and achievement of Blair and Brown.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: DMcG
Date: 08 May 10 - 03:56 AM

I wonder what this referendum will look like, if it ever appears. At the risk of being patronising, I'm not sure asking the general populus to choose between FPTP, AV, AV+ and STV stands much chance of getting a considered answer. But if I were asked to choose between FPTP and AV (which Labour were suggesting in the debates), I'm not at all sure AV is less flawed. Of late, though, Labour seem to be mentioning AV+ instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:57 PM

"Bonzo and bubblyrat most notably - appear to be the most ignorant "

And the most desperate because their wet dreams of a Tory majority have come crashing down around them. LOL! OK, now's the time for PR, abolition of the monarchy, a proper constitution and an elected second chamber - in other words a move towards true democracy. If it takes a revolution, bring it on and bonzoboko and the bubblything will be first against the wall (well, after jug-ears Windsor).

Don't you just love it?!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:14 PM

I'm glad you say "interesting" rather than "surprising", Gervase.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Gervase
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:04 PM

change job centre to dole centre
Very true! There won't be any jobs around as public and private sectors implode, so all there'll be is benefits - and for a limited period. Soup kitchens, anyone?
As an aside, it's interesting that the British right-wingers here - Bonzo and bubblyrat most notably - appear to be the most ignorant when it comes to the constitution. Or when it comes to facts in general, come to that. Figures, really!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 04:41 PM

This is becoming all so tiresome, where's my unPCing the last 13 years manual. Right, let me see - change job centre to dole centre, send all chairs back to MFI and reappoint chairmen............

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 May 10 - 04:39 PM

It doesn't require the go-ahead of David Cameron for the majority of MPs, who were elected on manifestos including electoral reform, to legislate for a binding referendum on making the electoral system fairer. After all, they outnumber the Tories.

This is a different matter from who, if anybody, is able to set up a viable administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 04:05 PM

FPTP encourages far right parties as it contributes to the feeling of being disenfranchised that drives people into the hands of parties like the BNP

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 May 10 - 03:44 PM

As I said, Dave, all else being equal. The advantage FPTP has is exclusion of distasteful minorities, the price being the exclusion of constructive minorities. It has also probably inhibited the development of any radical left alternative, while allowing New Labour to shuffle rightwards without any rein to pull it back.

I don't think the electoral system should be designed to keep out minorities whether good or bad; what's needed is the political vision that leaves the ultras unattractive. And there's no incentive for politicians to even try to do that with the present system.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 03:40 PM

Actually, Terry, in the face of a one-sided press (gosh, are their proprietors rich? Did they want government by the rich for the rich?) Labour and Gordon Brown did very well to reduce a 28 point lead to the about 6% swing seen. It demonstrates the danger of press control. Still, I suppose it might give "Dave" the honour (dubious looking at the content of the channel) of being the first UK PM named for a TV channel. Nearly as squeaky-clean as Berlusconi then.

Buggered if I can see what's wrong with calling a bigot a bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Anne Lister
Date: 07 May 10 - 03:37 PM

What Cameron said as far as I heard it was that he would set up an all party committee of inquiry into PR - not the same thing at all as a referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 May 10 - 03:02 PM

hi

Cameron said he would consider a referendum on political reform but did not explain what he meant by that.

We know that when politician's either avoid or are vague about something it is just the same as lying about promising to do it.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:43 PM

Its really simple folks.

The libs are teasing Labour to force Brown to make the first offer BEFORE they negotiate.

That offer, already on the table, is to immediately enact PR.

The Government will not last long, but it will last long enough to get PR through.

SNP and Plaid Cymru will support PR

It will go through.

The current tory party will not agree to it.

But Cameron knows that if he doesn't agree to it, it will go through anyway under lib lab pact.

It will save Lab and Lib Asses at the next election and will result in parties having to learn how to share power because the "threat" of a hung parliament will become the norm.

No more elected dictatorships.

No more unjust wars.

Fingers crosssed.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:39 PM

hi

Now that the dust is settling one thing comes over very clearly to me....the TV debates and most of the high profile publicity made hardly any difference in the last month's run up to the election.

Even Brown's gaff with the Duffy woman did not deter her constituency ( Rochdale) from voting for Labour.

Makes you wonder don't it????

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:29 PM

hi dave

Rest easy !!! The Queen has no responsibilty in this. It is completely left to the politions.

When they have decided between them what the have to do the person and party(ies)selected will be invited by Her Majesty to be formally recognised.

As I understand it it 25th May has been set aside for this formality but I hope that the politicians can sort themselves out quickly and get on with the job.

In the meantime Gordon Brown and the Labour Party will act as temporary government.

So your lack of knowledge about the Kalahari will not be reqired....lol

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:24 PM

I did the PR stats as well but decided that some of the minority parties would probably have had more because, in a PR scenario, they would have fielded more candidates. I think it would have to be linked to the constituencies where candidates were fielded. We would, therefore and in my opinion, need a higher deposit and a higher percentage at which the deposit is refunded. If, for instance, I could get 650 freinds (chance would be a fine thing!) to stand in every constituency I would bve almost sure to get some seats! I think some very careful thought needs to be put in to the reforms that are required.

Like I keep pluggung. Benign dictatirship is FAR better and simpler. Me at the head of course:-)

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:06 PM

The LDs are kissing Cameron's arse already, maybe they'd kiss Clinton's dick as well.

And history tells us he'd like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:40 PM

Please re-arrange this sentence:

"The fights, the squabbling and the incompetence will return a Conservative Government "

Best wishes

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Teribus
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:24 PM

OK Richard now tell us how much of the country does not want the unelected and obviously unelecatable Gordon Brown and ZANULiebour.

What was it according to Lox's BBC facts:

29% of the vote and they lost 91 seats. Hardly a ringing endorsement is it.

No I hope that Gordon does form his minority Government, or even better forms another Lib-Lab Pact. It won't last long, a matter of months, after all they got us into this mess they should stew in it a while longer, it should be quite amusing to see the lib-Dems floundering about with real problems to solve, something that their party has not had to do for almost a century, and something that none of their reduced Parliamentary Party is actually capable of doing. The fights, the squabbling and the incompetence will return a Conservative Government with a working majority sooner rather than later particularly if Gordon of Cartoon insists on remaining at the helm.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:23 PM

There are two choices that amount to one:

Libs support Labour. Majority paper thin assuming SDLP/ Alliance/ Green/ Plaid/ Scot Nats support Labour and DUP support Tories. Coalition will break up on budget.

Libs support Tories. Majority of about a hundred, fairly secure, but coalition breaks up on budget.

The best the Libs can hope for is to force through some electoral reform as part of a deal, but it's unlikely that any coalition will be stable enough to see it into law.

If we'd had full PR (seats allocated according to vote share), the result might have looked something like (using figures from mid- afternoon):

Con   234
Lab   185
Lib   148
SNP    12
DUP    5
UKIP   20
BNP    11
Green   6
Plaid   5
Sinn F 4
SDLP    3
Alli    1
UCUNF   3
Trad U 1

And, perhaps oddly, the result would have been very similar if the regions England, Scotland, Wales and NI had counted their proportions separately, though NI would have been less well represented overall.

It seems that in this case, all else being equal, the Liberals could have chosen a stable coalition with either party, and the presence of the extreme nutters would have been annoying and distasteful, but little more.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Paco O'Barmy
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:11 PM

Tee hee Hee! Bye bye Gordon. Maybe I wont have to buy the PC 'corrected' version of the Oxford English Dictionary after all. Tee hee hee et al.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:08 PM

Well done "Dave", you converted a 28 point lead in the polls to proof that two thirds of the country don't want you or the rest of the Bullingdon club.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 12:57 PM

The LDs are kissing Cameron's arse already, maybe they'd kiss Clinton's dick as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:57 AM

`Maybe we should send Bill Clinton over to mediate a grand coalition government.`

Send Monica, she`ll change more votes.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:51 AM

This is all fascinating to an American like me since our systems are so very different. Perhaps to my shame this is the first time I've really paid attention to British elections. It's been a great education.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:09 AM

That'll probably see me through the next lot Bonzo:-)

But it's nowt to do with inverted snobbery. I am a proper snob and know I am far better than you...

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:38 AM

So it all could hinge on whether a rich woman with about as much idea of what goes in real life as I have of life in the Kalahari? Good grief. What a pity I am too old to get the next boat to Australia. Still, seeing as I am half Polish and don't really belong here, according to some people, I could always be forcibly re-patriated...


Inverted snobbery - 14 years transportation!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Emma B
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:37 AM

Mini-lecture: A hung Parliament explained

Professor Robert Hazell, Director of the Constitution Unit in UCL's School of Political Science, explains what a hung Parliament means for the UK including the role of a constitutional monarchy

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:36 AM

If the Libs and Labour fail to makea deal Cameron could form a minority Govt and dare the rest to vote him down. The wouldn't do it straight away and whenever they did he would call another election and .....................................

L in C

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:29 AM

Clegg will not have to deliver his party to Cameron if several of his elected MPs deliver themselves. But if some LibDems look like crossing Clegg might think it expedient to keep his caucus intact by allying his party with the Conservatives. Could work the other way around, of course, but why would a self-interested unprincipled LibDem up-and-comer (I assume there must be one or two like that) want to hitch himself to Brown's tattered coat-tails?