BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 03:08 PM

Donuel - Good solid points/advice indeed (and, fitting for the situation). I will keep this advice "close to my hat" in the future. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 01:20 PM

" the US armed forces have no chemical or biological weapons in their inventory"

What credible source of information supports this conclusion? The munitions companies
did sell weapons to Hussein to prohibit Iran from gaining power. The U.S. did back Hussein for this reason.

"2: As to "Who Dunnit" - don't care - President Bashar Al-Assad has the power and the authority to rid Syria of all Chemical and Biological weapons immediately - let him do so or face the consequences should they be used again."

This is a conviction before the evidence is officially in. We don't know because we are not allowed to know. We may find out that the Rebels used chemical weapons but we can't know this, only speculate and operate in a hot-headed manner. We are dealing with propaganda here, not evidence.

"7: Obama does not have to mount a shock and awe demonstration of the US military might. He didn't have to because GWB did that in 2003 and it served to deter every potential "Rogue State" on the planet (Even got Syria's secret nuclear weapons programme destroyed)."

This is specious reasoning. The shock and awe served to mobilize Islamic extremists
in every Mid East country and has not deterred many Mid East countries including Syria,
Bahrain, Egypt and others from condemning the U.S. use of drones and wars. The so-called "rogue states" are deemed to be so by American political pundits. By the way,
with this reasoning, Israel would have to be called a "rogue state" for it's invasions and expansionist policies. GWB in fact might be credited for the rise of Islamic extremism
throughout the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 01:12 PM

Teribus, If you look closely at your answers, to the ones posed by Donuel, you might see the words 'probably' and 'except for', 'maybe not', and in between a lot of 'qualifying remarks. So, are you saying we should go to war over 'probably's' and 'maybe not's', and 'except for's'???

Arguing over who was/is the bigger liar, between Bush and Obama is just a silly partisan exercise...because the truth is, THEY BOTH ARE!!..and neither one has OUR best interests at heart...Both are working for the World banksters, IMF, etc etc...Not you, not me, not their country. Their allegiances go to the 'countries' without known borders, the multinational financial controllers. How obvious does this have to get before some of you guys wake up from your delusions????

Just today, in Yahoo news, there is an article that says 'Iran is with Syria to the end'.....so, a World War over partisan leader's face saving???..Get real!..You might even wake up to the fact that Bush and Obama are NOT as different as the political rhetoric/media/campaigning crap has alleged, and a lot of you have been duped into believing otherwise!.. LOOK at their DEEDS, and NOT the lying rhetoric, and excuse giving!
Limited military action??..No 'boots' on the ground'??...until they retaliate, and then it escalates accompanied along with the blame
game!!

Yes, the chemical attack was wrong, but we can't even trust who they are saying did it. We hear the phrase 'High confidence'...NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! The peddled their 'High confidence' rap to the U.N. on WMD on Iraq..and guess what?..THEY were RIGHT!! They knew it!!...THEY had the receipts!...WE sold it to them!!...They ended up in Syria...So with that track record, we are led to believe that it was Assad?..The rebels??..The CIA??..The Russians??...or somebody with an agenda to draw us in 'legitimately'???..Who??..like us??..Israel??

Not enough RELIABLE information coming from the known liars, to justify any of this....not even who did it, FOR SURE!

Rather than lobbing missiles, how about an armed embargo???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 12:59 PM

"We sold chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein in the Iraq Iran war."

No you didn't CDC do not sell weapons - the US armed forces have no chemical or biological weapons in their inventory - haven't had since well before 1975. Last time the US armed forces deployed troops specifically trained in the use of chemical weapons was during the Korean War.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 12:24 PM

Ed
Heaven help the poor bastard on the bottom of the deep side of the logic pool.
rescue is often called for.


I stay away from the logic pool altogether especially when discussing things people do and say.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 12:13 PM

""Took you long enough, with clues to figure it out, then try to cover your ass. Suggestion: Before you get 'critical of somebody's post, because you don't understand it, or remember your history, instead of projecting that back to the original poster, try re-reading it, and comprehending it...and don't say it was the way it was written....maybe it just was interjecting a newer consideration that you weren't anticipating......but then, that's what creativity is all about.""



Clues, that's a good one gfs, LOL.

Illogical historic analogies and logic is what I would clearly call your post. I have no need to reread any of that "muddled logic"on the OP topic (or off it) so far Gfs.   Your post content indicates to me you are treading water on the shallow side of the logic pool.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 12:04 PM

btw
if the cia really did lunch on sarin missiles in Syria they must have been starving.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 12:00 PM

I have his gourd $%!

Follow the gourd

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 11:58 AM

You still try to answer rhetorical questions and argue against cynical sarcasm.
If nothing else after 12 years of staying in character it makes you sound like a parody of a parody like Martin Gibson.

Open up and be yourself, as long as it is not a paranoid delusional unibomberesque schizophrenic tea party extremist. Characters like that already clutter the Republican party to distractive self destruction.

Of course your contributions are as welcomed as ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 11:56 AM

Mr Obama is not the messiah....he's a VERY naughty boy!!

What's happened to all his disciples?

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 11:47 AM

EGADS

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 11:39 AM

Teribus you are again splitting hairs when it comes to selling hair trigger guns to Arabs.

More to the issue...

We sold chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein in the Iraq Iran war. Saddam used them on Iranian troops. A then already senile Ronald Reagan did not did decry or condemn the use of chemical weapons then. He led by silence, if he even "knew" at the time.

I bet that our chicken hawk conservative congressman will take heart by Reagan's apparent heartlessness of silently consenting the use of sarin against troops. But we are talking about using nerve gas on kids in their beds.

To vote NO to any retribution against Syrian King Assad will stand on the record as a foolish cowardly vote for ever, if incontrovertible proof exists .

Sad ass Bashir al Assad should have an eternity of getting his balls kicked. Maybe the honorable congressman from South Carolina could vote for that.




PS I am amused at how FOX news war advocate experts are reversing themselves in mid sentences and confuse their talking points backwards and forwards.


You know who you are.
As only you could say, Our policies are still between Iraq and a hard place

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 11:35 AM

To address Donuel's post

1: Your proposed solution would be more effective were it put in the following terms to the President of Syria and all his international supporters:

The current crisis in Syria is entirely of your making, the use of chemical weapons was a "red line" that has been crossed - we do not care who crossed it - Should there be a repetition, we WILL hold you responsible, these weapons are "yours", you have elected that Syria is not a signatory of the International Chemical Weapons Convention, the only reason they are available for use inside Syria. Any strike will be directed at yourself and the leadership of the ruling Ba'ath party in Syria - this we hope will act as a suitable incentive for you, your ministers and military commanders to ensure that no further chemical weapons are used.

By the way Lt-Cdr John McCain USN had absolutely nothing to do with the flight deck fire aboard the USS Forrestal on the 29th July 1967 - In stating that he had you are in error - you owe the man an apology.

2: As to "Who Dunnit" - don't care - President Bashar Al-Assad has the power and the authority to rid Syria of all Chemical and Biological weapons immediately - let him do so or face the consequences should they be used again.

3: "Who made or sold the gas?"

Probably made inside Syria or Iraq to a Soviet recipe.

4: "What exactly is the new US weapon system launched into orbit 2 weeks ago on the largest rocket since the Saturn 5?"

No US weapons system was launched into low earth orbit 2 weeks ago - an intelligence gathering satellite was.

5: "Why are the Bengazi 4 more important than a quarter million deaths and children gassed in their beds?"

Important to whom? If the quarter million you are referring to are those killed to date in Syria then at least your President and Government are trying to stop the killing - the Russians and the Chinese literally couldn't give a F**K, have not even commented on it and still continue to supply the Syrian regime with the wherewithall to not only continue the killing but accelerate it. The Benghazi 4 are important because they were US Citizens and US Diplomats who were murdered in the execution of their duties, the attack on their Consulate was an act of war - so how would you have responded to such an attack.

6: "...he [Obama] has not lied in a run up to an act of war"

Neither did George W. Bush - your MSM fed you plenty of misrepresentations and untruths about it though.

7: Obama does not have to mount a shock and awe demonstration of the US military might. He didn't have to because GWB did that in 2003 and it served to deter every potential "Rogue State" on the planet (Even got Syria's secret nuclear weapons programme destroyed).

8: "We are used to going to war over kids being ripped from incubators or non existent WMD's" or out right lying over who did 9-11."

In 1991 the UN sanctioned US-led military intervention to expel Saddam Hussein's forces from Kuwait.

In 2003 US President George W. Bush resumed hostilities with Iraq because Iraq had failed to comply with the terms and conditions of the ceasefire it had agreed to at Safwan in March 1991. Iraq was not invaded in order to find WMD, it was invaded to ensure beyond doubt that it possessed none.

As to "who did 9/11? That was Al-Qaeda. The plan was proposed to Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1996. It was modified as requested by Osama bin Laden and given the go-ahead from inside Afghanistan in 1998. The plan was delayed in 1999 and finally implemented in September 2001. So what lie was told? Or was this something else MSM made a complete and utter horlicks of reporting?

9: "The truth: we don't know."

Maybe not but we've got a F**kin' good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 11:06 AM

Yo, Mr. T:

the USA did not arm the Mujahideen

Bullshit. You need to refresh your memory regarding logical fallacies & the old rope-a-dope.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 10:58 AM

Risk a regional war, possibly a World War, so Obama doesn't 'lose face'?? You've GOT to be kidding me!!!
Donuel has it right, echoing a previous post from 'moi':...

Donuel: "Apparently Americans can not handle the truth.
The truth:
we don't know."

Too bad nobody trusts our government, because of it, too.....(except diehard devotees......otherwise referred to as idiot parrots!)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 09:48 AM

I have contacted all of my reps to "Foggy Bottom" and told them in plain English what I think of going into Syria. My friend, fan and rep to the house says she is not inclined to vote for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 09:33 AM

" like we did the mujahideen in Afghanistan, you mean, Ron? That worked out a real treat."

Well to put things into perspective here Greg F:

The following put money in the kitty:

USA - 40%
KSA - 40%
UAE - 10%
Pakistan - 10%

All the money went to Pakistan, and it was the Pakistani Government, The Pakistani Army and the Pakistani Intelligence Services who bought the weapons and it was they who decided who got what in terms of money and weaponry - Strictly NOT the USA, or any other foreign power, at President Zia of Pakistan's adamant and total insistence.

So no the USA did not arm the Mujahideen they contributed the minor portion towards it.

Note: All the above is a simple matter of record, all well documented

It did work out rather well in the end though as it was the Mujahideen thus armed who booted out first the Soviets (February 1989), then PDPA President Mohammad Najibullah's Communist Government (April 1992) and then formed themselves into the Northern Alliance who fought against the Taliban and kicked them out of power in 2001.

Between July 2002 and October 2003 the Northern Alliance agreed to disarm their militias as the groundwork was done by UNAMA & ISAF to set about forming and training up the ANSF, who are currently responsible for security and law enforcement inside Afghanistan.

Those anti-government forces operating inside Afghanistan today financed and backed by Pakistan's Army and ISI?

1: Gulbuddin Hekmatyar since 1975
2: Mullah Mohammad Omar and his Taliban since 1994
3: Jalaludin Haqqani since 1982

The groups mentioned above "commanded" (from in hiding inside Pakistan) are currently responsible for 80+% of all civilian casualties in Afghanistan.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 09:23 AM

not true Michael

There is one and only one response that all Americans (including the usual gang of idiots here) will support that will not threaten escalation toward nuclear war.

Operation Ball Buster:

16 Navy seals in noise dampening slippers and 4 NFL kickers with cleats sneak into Hassad's bedroom and duck tape him spread eagled for the 4 NFL kickers to kick King Hassad in the balls every ten seconds for as long as time allows.



PS Let McCain go on the mission so he can die a hero, and let his military record say something other than being a prisoner or having a rocket from his jet set fire to a US aircraft carrier.




Who dunnit?

As long as this question goes unabswerede beyond a shadow of a doubt, no action, except for the aove, should be made.

There are plenty of people willing to martyr themselves or others in the middle east, yes including the CIA who are only minor players in Syria.




oTHER QUESTIONS


Who made or sold the gas?

What exactly is the new US weapon system launched into orbit 2 weeks ago on the largest rocket since the Saturn 5?

Why are the Bengazi 4 more important than a quarter million deaths and children gassed in their beds?






The most important thing of all ! :

What Obama has done which is so radical that it seems very wrong, is that he has not lied in a run up to an act of war or a shock and awe demonstration of the US military might.

We are used to going to war over kids being ripped from incubators or non existent WMD's or out right lying over who did 9-11. Aren't the American people worth being lied to again?

Apparently Americans can not handle the truth.




The truth:
we don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 08:59 AM

The other thing we can and should do is to supply the rebels with weapons.

Hmmm- like we did the mujahideen in Afghanistan, you mean, Ron? That worked out a real treat.

Some folks just don't ever learn......

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 08:45 AM

Most Americans oppose any intervention here, and they are becoming quite vocal about it. Not just bleeding heart Liberal types, (such as Bobert;-)).Conservatives as well. We are all tired of war, and there is a strong feeling that we've done much more harm than good in the Middle East. I'm not putting any links up, because it's gotten messy to put blue clickies up lately, but you can Google easily enough...

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 06:43 AM

""Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 12:22 PM

All you've talked here is drivel, Mr Davies. Fuck off.""

Unidentifiable Guest Trolls don't get to give orders to members, so
go and raffle yourself.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 06:25 AM

Did those here who oppose Obama's proposed intervention, object to him promising to act against the use of chemical weapons at the time?

Did they post here describing it as warmongering?
Stringsinger?

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 05:22 AM

"Interesting"?? Totally idiotic more like

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 03:24 AM

Interesting evaluation Stringsinger

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 05:15 PM

"It's another utterly phony "false flag" propaganda exercise"

LH it appears to be that. The advantage that the U.S. has in getting involved on this issue is:
1. Obama can save face for his drawing the red line.
2. The Mid East is a powder keg and Obama wants to control this situation by police
tactics.
3. Obama ostensibly wants to show Assad that he can't use chemical weapons. The underlying fact is that the U.S. has used chemical weapons in the past, maybe not
sarin but others as lethal and only the U.S. is allowed to do that.
4. The U.S. has a pattern of supporting dictators when it suits its interest. FDR called
them "our bastards". The pattern concludes when dictators such as Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Hussein or Assad run afoul of reputed U.S. interests then for political, not moral reasons they decide to crack down militarily.
5. The munitions manufacturers are getting rich off of these wars and the taxpayer
is footing the bill. The advantage for them is self evident.
6. The Commander-in-Chief assumes undue power in times of war. Bush and Obama
have capitalized on this. They think it gives them a leg up in historical memory.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 01:19 AM

Took you long enough, with clues to figure it out, then try to cover your ass. Suggestion: Before you get 'critical of somebody's post, because you don't understand it, or remember your history, instead of projecting that back to the original poster, try re-reading it, and comprehending it...and don't say it was the way it was written....maybe it just was interjecting a newer consideration that you weren't anticipating......but then, that's what creativity is all about.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 05:07 PM

Took you enough web searching time to look that one up gfs. At least you know it now. Maybe you can use the same site to figure things out in the future. If not, I am sure some of us can extend a "helping hand" ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 05:00 PM

I know that Hawaii was not a state back then(who doesn't?) but we had a naval harbor there(and still do). Syria is not a Russian state, but they have a naval harbor there.
What else don't you understand?...Wait wait, don't tell me. See if, with those 'useful' tools, if you could figure out the analogy all by yourself.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 04:51 PM

Last guest was me, of course ( Cookie reset):)

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 04:40 PM

Alternative approach gfs: try being more clear and tight in your posts which (IMO) would make easier reading of your varied personal perspectives. Few has the time to read and reread mudcat posts to "squeeze out" a posters hidden meaning:)

On a reread your Russia Hawaii analogy, IMO, it still makes little sense to me. Do you know that Hawaii was a USA territory after about 1898? Syria is hardly or was ever a Russian territory. I suspect any attack on a Russian naval vessel in a Syrian port would get a prompt and clear response - as happened in WW2.

Smarten up and use more sanity. (BTW, the referenced post was the last post when I was sending (:)

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 04:08 PM

Then read it again....you misstated what I said.
fair enough?

GfS

P.S. I also wasn't my 'last post'....slow down, and read what is there.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 02:31 PM

Sorry Gts, I fail to understand your last post. My recollection of WW2 is that Japan directly attacked USA naval vessels in tied up at a Hawaii port.

Hardly a similar situation related to in the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 02:26 PM

Well now it's time for a question from 'Sanity Land'.

Ready???

We've all seen that the nations of the world will not line up behind the U.S., in regards to this matter....the question: After the U.S. lied through their teeth about WMDs before the U.N., and invaded Iraq, based on that same lie...and then lies their asses off AGAIN, and repeatedly, in the U.N. about the Benghazi situation, being just a demonstration about a video, why is this not like the fairy tale about the boy that cried 'Wolf!'??

...and one more question: Do you believe them now?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 02:21 PM

Britain does not sell anyone chemical weapons.
We do not make them or stock any.
Jim just lies about us.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 01:49 PM

But Jim, Great Britain is on the U.N. Security Council...and ALL five of them are the world's leading arms dealers...You wouldn't want GB to look inferior to is peers, now do you???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 01:39 PM

"If chemical use could be deterred, that would be an upside."
Perhaps stopping the British government selling them might be a good starting point - waddya think?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 01:21 PM

Akenaton: "Are any of the US "left" prepared to demonstrate against strikes on Syria? We hear very little of any opposition, tho' polls suggest that over 60% are against military strikes."

Well, history shows us, once again, that man never learns from history!!
Our government, which is 'SUPPOSED' to be 'WE THE PEOPLE', disregards, 'WE THE PEOPLE'. The last few administrations, this one especially included, does what it wants, whether 'WE THE PEOPLE' agree or not, or even have a say in it!!..Then they peddle the idea of why we should go along with it, while they lie their asses off, or be considered in the league with some sort of 'hate group'!..as demonstrated with Obamacare, homosexuals marrying, Libya, Afghanistan, Egypt, NSA, corruption, whether it be imaginary 'stimulus' packages, funding for cronies, raising taxes or 'fees', as they like to call it, to hide the fact that it is just another tax, debt ceilings, race baiting, Benghazi, 'Fast and Furious, many extravagant vacations at our expense, lack of transparency, keeping secrets agendas private from the people, while snooping on us, accounting of tax expenditures, federalizing local police forces..so on and so forth.....so GOOD LUCK!!

Akenaton: "This is almost an exact copy of the lead up to Iraq, where are you guys at?......With the exception of Bobert, I have heard nothing from you that might indicate that you see Mr Obama as "Mr Bush part 2"

RIGHT!...But Bobert clearly has a double standard, right out of the 'so-called liberal' playbook. It's called 'Puppet's Playbook for Loyal Parrots Other Short(sighted) Stories'.

Keith A of Hertford: "There are suggestions coming out that more is on the agenda."

Oil, and this President seems to favor the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda, while hiding behind political rhetoric....just look at his track record, and disregard what he blathers.

Stringsinger: "It's such a mess over there that anything is possible. However, the solution is a political and not a military one. I wouldn't be surprised if the rebels have sarin somehow."

Well, Obama is a political creature, so that would be HIS first concern...as long as how HE looks politically.
..and where did the get them from??? (Question of the hours)..and WHY?

Stringsinger: "Assad is a crazy man in the way that Hitler was by his power grab."

Yeah, well so was Noriega, Saddam, the Shah of Iran, among others....and they were ALL OUR guys!..that we turned on, too, when their usefulness to whatever the agenda d'jour needed 'adjustment'.

Stringsinger: "The war in Syria could easily spill beyond it's borders."

..and Continents as well!
That being said, Strings is on the mark, on this subject.

Michealr: "Noted by myself (among others) who am one of those you so lovingly call "flaky leftists". I wonder - since you have such contempt for the members of this forum, why exactly do you keep hanging around?"

Maybe because he is also a musician...and this IS a musician's forum, isn't it???..unless the "flaky leftists" want to take over that too!..unilaterally....(See my first response above, to Akenaton.
BTW, music has no political affiliation...it is MUSIC!!..However, divisive stupidity does!

Bobert: "The left here in the US is already protesting the threat of US involvement... There have been hundreds of demonstrations,.."

There have???????????????????? You must be confusing that with the Trayvon Martin case!

Michealr: "Fuck all these theories. The fact is and remains that if the US gets involved with miltary action, things cannot but get worse."

Make up your mind...You seem to enjoy arguing both sides of the argument, and then object to Ron Davies calling you a "flaky leftist'!!!! Perhaps this is a clue.

Guest: "Teribus, you start talking common sense and you're going to mess up this thread"

Rest assured, that won't happen!!

From: Ed T
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 02:18 PM

"Some alternative thinking:

IMO, Iran's involvement can not be ruled out - through their military wing in Syria, Hezbollah. This group is closely linked with Iran, and is working in league with Assad to regain control of the country...."
..and he goes on to bringing up Russia being friends with Iran).

Russia is also being victims of Muslim terrorists, Chechnya and others)...besides having a Naval Base in Syria...being as they have no deep water port of their own. You bet Russia is going to fight for Assad! Hawaii wasn't a state, and look what happened when it was attacked!...Though WE might not look at it that way, don't think that THEY won't! What if the Japanese attacked Hawaii, but didn't go for the harbor.......YET!....and that's how they could EASILY see it!!

..........................................

All this, because Obama dug the fact that when Netanyahu came over here, and delivered his powerful speeches, that he looked REAL, and was perceived as meaning business....so Obama used the 'red line' bit, in his own speech, and wanted to look cool using the same line, and being perceived as being as focused and dedicated as Netanyahu. problem is, Netanyahu, knew what he was talking about...and wasn't doing it to win a popularity contest. Now Obama is stuck with it, and dragging us all along with him.......and as my first response to Akenaton noted,.."whether 'WE THE PEOPLE' agree or not, or even have a say in it!!..Then they peddle the idea of why we should go along with it, while they lie their asses off, or be considered in the league with some sort of 'hate group'!.."

Reminiscent of what the 'Right' was starting to flash, during Bush's second term, isn't it????!!!!!???!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 12:22 PM

All you've talked here is drivel, Mr Davies. Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 10:23 AM

"so sweetly..."    Drivel.

"overheated leftist imagination..."

QED

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 10:18 AM

The other thing we can and should do is to supply the rebels with weapons.   But do we in fact know if the rebels are unified or not?    And it would be nice, to put it mildly, if we did not supply a group allied with al-Queda with weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 10:12 AM

AND I do not trust Obama. He sure slotted into the old Dubya role so sweetly, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 10:05 AM

Any realist knows there is no chance that the US by itself could stop the Syrian regime from doing what it wants to do except by an actual invasion. The US public will not accept an invasion.

What is planned, as I understand, is missile attacks from offshore.   This would show US disapproval of the Syrian regime's conduct.    It is only useful if it encourages Arab states in the area to do more to try to topple Assad.   It is possible that it might have this effect. But this is as far as the US can go alone.    And even this is not likely to be as neat as you might wish.   If innocent civilians are killed, 3 guesses on who gets blamed.


You can call such an attack "involvement" if you wish.   But it is marginal, to say the least.

I think it's important to live in the real world when you are discussing foreign policy--neither in the world of overheated leftist imagination nor in any other utopia where decisions are simple.

I understand some think the US could destroy Assad's air capacity.   Any evidence for this?

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 09:58 AM

"Giving their record of truthfulness (or, any of the players in this conflict, for that matter) - Do you really think one should "go to the bank" with that, or any other related political statement on this type of issue? :)"

Ed, I don't trust any of the bastards: Arabs, Jews, Americans, Saudis, Hezbollah, Iran or the fucking Easter Bunny.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 09:49 AM

Chemical weaponry is a result of the escalation of war which is pouring gas on a fire.
No military action will deter its usage. Whether the CIA planted the sarin is anyone's guess.
It's such a mess over there that anything is possible. However, the solution is a political and not a military one. I wouldn't be surprised if the rebels have sarin somehow.

Assad is a crazy man in the way that Hitler was by his power grab. The war in Syria could easily spill beyond it's borders.

Israel did a disservice by firing it's test missiles into the Mid-East region claiming a joint military exercise with the U.S. This sabre-rattling will ensure calamity in that region.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 03:50 AM

As has been noted, there is precisely no upside to the US becoming involved in the Syrian civil war.

If chemical use could be deterred, that would be an upside.
That is the only stated objective.
There are suggestions coming out that more is on the agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 03:45 AM

News on BBC this morning was suggesting that Mr OBAMA was preparing to strike the Syrian government forces, to "degrade their capabilities". The strikes were to be more forceful than it was first thought; he also indicated aid for the opposition(terrorist) forces.

This is almost an exact copy of the lead up to Iraq, where are you guys at?......With the exception of Bobert, I have heard nothing from you that might indicate that you see Mr Obama as "Mr Bush part 2"

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 03:26 AM

Independent today.

Fears Western intervention in Syria may spark a wider regional war were raised on Monday after Hezbollah warned it would retaliate against Israel in the event of an attack.

The Lebanese Shia group said it would respond to a US attack with missile strikes of its own, directed at Israel. The group said it would launch the retaliatory strike from within Syria – where its fighters have been supporting the Syrian army in its fight against rebels for the past year – in order to shield Lebanon from becoming embroiled in the conflict.

"Hezbollah is controlling 8,000km in Homs and will not hesitate to participate in an attack by firing surface-to-surface missiles from Syria," a source from the joint operations between Hezbollah and Syrian forces said in comments published in the Kuwaiti al-Rai newspaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:24 PM

Ron Davies: As has been noted, there is precisely no upside to the US becoming involved in the Syrian civil war.

Noted by myself (among others) who am one of those you so lovingly call "flaky leftists". I wonder - since you have such contempt for the members of this forum, why exactly do you keep hanging around?

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 08:09 PM

Yo, Ake...

The left here in the US is already protesting the threat of US involvement... There have been hundreds of demonstrations, all ignored by Big Media...

We'll continue to do what we can do...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 08:03 PM

Interesting. There seem to be flaky leftists all over the world. And we are graced with more than our share. Lucky us.

As has been noted, there is precisely no upside to the US becoming involved in the Syrian civil war. Perhaps our eminent conspiracy theorists can tell us how Obama can benefit. He will only do it if he feels it is unavoidable.   And the evidence behind the Syrian government's culpability is substantial, in contrast to the absurd theories behind the Iraq invasion.

Nor does the Obama administration have any love for the current Syrian regime.   So there is no reason any thinking person should believe the CIA is involved in this. (Unless of course it's the Culinary Institute of America--I'm sure they have nefarious plans).

Not that this will deter our illustrious Mudcatters.

So have fun, boys.