Origins: Old Chisholm Trail

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 11 Aug 23 - 09:50 PM

Will Rogers (1879-1935) wrote in 1911 that he was "was weaned on ['Sam Bass'] and ‘The Dying Cowboy’ and ‘Ty yi yippy, ty yi ai'" in the Indian Territory (now eastern Oklahoma), presumably around 1890.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 05:02 PM

So the ol' memory banks are still workin'. Heh heh.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: StephenR
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 04:54 PM

Thanks Lighter. Sure enough, inside "The Trail to Ogallala," the chapter 10 heading is:

There's a stray in the bunch and the boss said, kill it,
So I shot him in the rump and he landed in the skillet
Come-a ti yi yippi, yippi yea, yippi yea,
Come-a ti yi yippi, yippi yea.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 12:04 PM

From Lonn Taylor & Ingrid Maar, "The American Cowboy" (1983):

“Lomax… severely bowdlerized some ballads, thinking, quite correctly, that the sexual allusions they contained would not be acceptable to any publisher. The original versions, as preserved in the Lomax Papers, offer an insight into the cowboy’s attitudes toward cattle and women that Cowboy Songs does not. In a typescript copy of ‘The Old Chisholm Trail'... we find

My foot in the stirrup, my ass in the saddle
I ’ll bid goodbye to these God damn cattle.

instead of Lomax’s published

Feet in the stirrup and seat in the saddle
I hung and rattled them longhorn cattle.

and

There’s old Miss Annie she’s a mighty fine squaw
She lives on the banks of the old Wichita.

I wanted for to frig her and I offered her a quarter
Says she, 'Bill Moore, I’m a gentleman’s daughter.'

instead of

Well, I met a little gal and I offered her a quarter
She says, 'Young man, I ’m a gentleman’s daughter.'

Verses like

I’m going down south fore the weather gets cold
I'm going down south to get some tallow on my pole

and

I’m going down south just whooping and yelling
If I don't get a woman I’ll take a heifer yearling

didn’t get into print in any form. As Lomax himself said of the song, ‘many stanzas are not mailable.’

“The point is not that Lomax was an inaccurate collector or a prude, but that Cowboy Songs was not a terribly accurate reflection of the song vocabulary of the average cowboy, which included many songs that had nothing to do with cattle and did not include many of the supposed songs, actually poems, included in Cowboy Songs. Significantly, the first edition of the book contained 112 texts and only fourteen tunes."

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 11:00 AM

For the familiar tune, compare "The Swapping Song" as sung by Peggy Seeger:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcycDatJfjs

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 09:28 AM

At this point, all I can say is that I think the lines came from Benjamin Capps's well-informed novel, "The Trail to Ogallala," which came out about sixty years ago.

Another stanza from the same book was (essentially):

"Goin' to the boss to get my roll,
Goin' into town to get some taller on my pole."

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: meself
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 08:33 PM

I had the verse in my head as:

Stray in the herd, the boss said, Kill it;
I shot that stray and threw him in the skillet.

I must have gotten that from somewhere!

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: StephenR
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 06:34 PM

Lighter, that would make a lot of sense. It certainly fits with what cnd wrote. Have you encountered that variation anywhere, or is it your guess of what it originally was (perhaps before a mishearing that got recorded and popularized)?

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 05:07 PM

I believe the correct words are "I shot him in the ass/ And he landed in the skillet."

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: cnd
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 04:05 PM

(To clarify, the impetus was that a stray steer was "free" meat to be cooked and eaten by the hired hands. A boss didn't want to sacrifice one of their own head of cattle to feed the workers, but someone else's lost cattle was a different story)

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: cnd
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 04:01 PM

Two possible explanations, my own rose-colored version first: I assumed it meant the cowboy didn't "shoot" the steer as instructed, but instead gave it a swift hit with a pan so it would run away into the wilderness and have a shot at life.

The more likely explanation, as explained in a couple editions of "Plains Folk" by Jim Hoy and Tom Isern: "if somebody else's steer happened to come along, then the trail crew could have fresh meat." "[R]ange custom allowed it; besides, if one of your steers got in someone else's herd, you knew that it would be eaten." (as printed in the [Kansas] Council Grove Republican, July 3rd, 1997, p. 4 and August 3rd, 1994, p. 4

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: StephenR
Date: 08 Aug 23 - 03:25 PM

Can anyone enlighten me on why someone would dispatch a cow with a skillet handle? I feel like I may be missing something here. I've looked at various versions of this online, and they most all say he "shot" or "hit" the stray with a skillet handle.

Now, I'm far from a cowboy, but this seems like a very ill-advised action. The only reason I can figure for it to be in the song is that "kill it" and "skillet" is a superb rhyme. But why use the handle in particular? Seems the body of a skillet would be the intuitive way to whallop something.

Is there something I am missing, or am I just overthinking it?

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:54 AM

I remember John A. Lomax singing "Buffalo Skinners" on a Library of Congress disk.

John Lomax, Jr., does a good job of "Chisholm Trail" (with *two* uncommon tunes) on the Folkways album of "The Tex-i-an Boys."

Except for the hammy alternation of tunes, I'd say that Jr.'s rendition of the song is the most realistic I've heard.

There's even one note in the refrain I don't think he quite manages to hit right.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:29 AM

Try again ...

'The [Old] Chisholm Trail' was one of the first radio ballads pre-dating even Ewan MacColl's.

http://research.culturalequity.org/home-radio.jsp

Lomax also chose the music for and performed in two subsequent folk song ballad opera broadcasts scripted by his wife, Elizabeth Lyttleton Harold: 'The Martins and the Coys' and 'The Chisholm Trail.'

The former is available on CD from Amazon. The latter is available here:

http://research.culturalequity.org/get-radio-detailed-show.do?showId=9

Enjoy!!

CJB

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 12:28 PM

There are a thousand and one bawdy verses (or it just seems like there are that many). Most not worth mentioning.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: GUEST,Jason Hill
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 09:34 AM

A verse I don't think anyone has mentioned yet:
I fucked her standing, I fucked her lying
If she'd had wings I'd have fucked her flying.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 03:25 PM

Much of the Gordon version appears to be idiosyncratic.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 01:39 PM

Abby Sale posted one of the bawdy versions from the Gordon Inferno MSS.

An extended version with some 40 verses, collected in Montana also from the Gordon MSS., 3781, was printed in Guy Logsdon's book, "The Whorehouse Bells Were Ringing." It has the usual exaggerations, from the description of the girl, through the action, the cowboy suffering from clap, and on to further "adventures."

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 08:39 PM

IIRC, Jack Lee used another.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 08:10 PM

Larkin printed two quite different tunes.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:45 PM

I wonder how many people who sing bawdy versions (apparently the only ones still in significantly oral tradition)realize they're offshoots of "The Old Chisholm Trail."

I wonder how many have even heard of the original song.

The bawdy lyrics always go to the tune we learned in school. Lomax, however, printed three or four different tunes to the (mostly) clean words. I've seen a couple of others since.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 01:40 PM

I don't believe there is genetic relationship between the old verses and "Old Chisholm Trail", either.
Most of the mentions give no reference, and seem to be copied from some previous source, never cited.

A very simple rhyme of two lines, doesn't take a genius to re-invent it for his ditty.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:00 PM

Looks like baloney to me.

No version of "Chisholm Trail" has "Knave" words, though one certainly could, in theory.

I thought Legman suggested that "A Dainty Ducke" is the ultimate progenitor of Brand's "A Guy is Guy."

That at least seems plausible, based on the repeated "honest woman" and the apparent direction of the plot.

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 06:56 PM

Matthew Sabatella and Rambling String Band have their lyrics for "Old Chisholm Trail" on line.

They have a few verses I have commonly heard, but may not be in those posted so far.

Stray in the herd and the boss said to kill it,
So I shot him in the rump with the handle of a skillet.

My hoss throwed me off at the creek called Mud,
My boss throwed me off round the 2 U herd.

Last time I saw him he was going 'cross the level,
A-kicking up his heels and a-runnin' like the devil.

The wind commenced to blow and the rain began to fall,
Hit looked, by grab, that we were goin' to lose them all.

I popped my foot in the stirrup and gave a little yell,
The tail cattle broke and the leaders went as well [went to hell]

Feet in the stirrups and seat in the saddle,
I hung and rattled with them longhorn cattle.

I don't give a damn if they never do stop,
I'll ride as long as an eight-day clock.

We rounded 'em up and put 'em on the cars,
QAnd that was the last of the old Two Bars.

Goin' to the boss to get my money,
Goin' back south to see my honey.

With my hand on the horn and my seat in the sky,
I'll quit herding cows in the sweet by and by.

http://www.balladofamerica.com/music/indexes/songs/oldchisholmtrail/

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 03:38 PM

Verse 2, Knaves-
shoo'd

Subject: RE: Origins: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 03:36 PM

In several references, the song's origins are traced back to a fragment from c. 1640s; from Bishop Percy Folio Manuscript; "A dainty ducke."

A dainty ducke I Chanced to meete;
shee wondered what I would doe,
& courteously shee did me greete,
As an honest woman shold doe.

I asked her if she wold drinke;
shee wondered &c.
she answered me with sober winke,
as an honest &c
I tooke....

From Vance Randolph, 1992, "Roll Me In Your Arms," no 44, The Rogue, p. 189. Univ. Arkansas Press.

This would suggest that the 'unprintable versions came first.

From the Folger Shakespeare Library (about 1670):

"Knaves Will Be Knaves"
I went to the Alehouse as an honest woman shoo'd,
And a knave follow'd after, as ypu know knaves woo'd.
Knaves will be knaves in every degree,
I'le tell you by and by how this knave serv'd me.

I call'd for my pot as an honest woman shoo's
And the knave drank it up, as you know knaves woo'd
Knaves will be knaves, &c.

I went into my bed as an honest woman shoo'd
And the knave crept into't, as you know knaves woo'd
Knaves will be knaves, &c.

I prov'd with childe as an honest woman shoo'd
And the knave ran away, as you know knaves woo'd
Knaves will be knaves in every degree
And thus I have told you how this knave serv'd me.

pp. 189-190.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 09:04 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Old Chisholm Trail
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 07:54 PM

First published at length in "Cowboy Songs," by John A. Lomax, 1910. Lengthened further by John and Alan in 1938.

I have a lot of material on this song, which I hope to publish at some point - the good Lord willin' an' the river don't rise.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Old Chisholm Trail
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 07:19 PM

thanks for the LyrAdd, Q.   Our old 78--don't recall who--used about a third of these verses...

keep on pickin
dennis

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Old Chisholm Trail
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 04:22 PM

That of course would be Charlie Goodnight of "The Goodnight Loving Trail" who chose a different route.

Hoot

Subject: Lyr Add: The Old Chisholm Trail
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 04:04 PM

Lyr. Add: THE OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
Myra Hull, KS Hist. Quart., 1939

Oh come along boys, and listen to my tale,
I'll tell you all my troubles on the ol' Chis'm Trail

Chorus-
Come a-ti yi youpy ya youpy yay,
Come a-ti yi youpy youypy yay.

On a ten-dollar horse and a forty dollar saddle,
I was ridi', and a-punchin' Texas cattle.

We left ol' Texas October twenty-third,
Drivin' up trail with a 2 U herd.

I'm up in the mornin' afore daylight,
An' afore I sleep the moon shines bright.

It's bacon and beans most every day,
I'd as soon be eatin' prairie hay.

Old Ben Bolt was a blamed good boss,
But he'd go to see the girls on a sore-backed hoss

Old Ben Bolt was a mighty good man,
And you'd know there was whiskey wherever he'd land.

I woke up one mornin' on the Chisholm Trail,
With a rope in my hand and a cow by the tail.

Last night on guard, an' the leader broke the ranks,
I hit my horse down the shoulders an' spurred him in the flanks.

Oh, it's cloudy in the west, and a-lookin' like rain,
And my damned ol' slicker's in the wagon again.

Oh the wind commenced to blow and the rain began to fall,
An' it looked by grab that we was gonna lose 'em all.

I jumped in the saddle an' I grabbed a-holt the horn,
The best damned cowpuncher ever was born.

I was on my best horse, aan' a-goin' on the run,
The quickest-shootin' cowboy that ever pulled a gun.

No chaps, no slicker, and it's pourin' down rain,
An' I swear, by God, I'll never nightherd again.

I herded and I hollered, and I done pretty well,
Till the boss said, "Boys, just let 'em go to Hell."

I'm goin' to the ranch to draw my money,
Goin' into town to see my Honey.

I went to the boss to draw my roll,
He figgered me out nine dollars in the hole.

So I'll sell my outfit as fast as I can,
And I won't punch cows for no damn man.

So I sold old Baldy and I hung up my saddle,
And I bid farewell to the longhorn cattle.

Text A. An old Kansas text. Myra E. Hull, "Cowboy Ballads," The Kansas Historical Qquarterly vol. VIII, no. 1, Feb. 1939, p. 39.

The Chisholm Trail stretched from west Texas to Abilene, KS.

Cattle drives from Texas to Kansas took place from about 1866 to the mid-1880s, at which time, the railroads had extended to Texas localities.
It was estimated that in 1866, some 260,000 cattle crossed the Red River.

The herd, some 2000-3000 cattle, was driven by about 12 men, under a Trail Boss ($125/mo.), a cook (cocinero) at $60/mo., and 9-10 drovers and wranglers ($30-dollar men).
The Trail Boss set the route, and knew good rest stops for the night, with water and grass.
A well-tended herd brought good prices at the pens at the railroad.
The wrangler(s) were generally less-experienced hands, they cared for the remuda (herd of horses, with about 10 horses/man.
The cook not only prepared meals, but was in charge of the wagon, which carried the coffee, bacon, beans, and flour, perhaps molasses, a water barrel, and rudimentary tools and medical supplies. Little meat was carried, since they had the cattle and sometimes bison, etc. could be hunted on the route.
Charles Goodnight is credited with the "invention" of the chuck wagon, which was usually drawn by mules.

Above note from the Texas Almanac, online.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:06 PM

Tony Kraber's verses followed this traditional one and were something like what I've posted:

I went to the boss to draw my roll,
He figgered me out nine dollars in the hole...

Well, I gathered up the hands and we held a meeting;
We all took a vote and the boss took a beating...

Now we've got a union and we do very well,
We've got decent wages and the boss can go to hell...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Chisholm Trail
From: llareggyb (inactive)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:17 AM

...and I thought there were *only* 33 verses! My version is from a book titled something like "1,000 Folksongs" and a couple of verses are obviously "cleaned up". I'm sure of this as other songs in the book that I know well (e.g. The Foggy Foggy Dew) have also been bowdlerized.

For Verse 7 in the Frank C. Brown Collection version quoted above, my book has a better rhyme:

   My horse threw me off, just like I was a bird,
   He throwed me off near the 2-U herd.

But like a bird???? Please! Surely that must have been originally:

   My horse threw me off, just like I was a turd,
   He throwed me off near the 2-U herd.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Chisholm Trail
From: Mark Ross
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:05 PM

I remember one bawdy version with the chorus
"Gonna tie my pecker to a tree, to a tree..............


Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Old Chisholm Trail
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 11:41 AM

Refresh.

Does anybody still sing this except (with the major tune) as a hokey "kids' song"? Any unpublished versions (clean or otherwise)?

Jim McLean, you're right! The intro to "Rock Around the Clock" (isn't that what you quoted) sounds very much like the now-usual "OCT" tune!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Abby Sale
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 05:27 PM

Q: I don't have any statistics on cowboy sadism so I'm not making any strong statements, here...just opines.

When you rread songs like "The Great Wheel" or the Randolph/Legman version of "Chisholm," the sadistic/violent elements are so strog they can't be ignored. I wouldn't suggest this implies any kind of physical action or desire but these are heavy items. Very different, to my thinking than boasting or gleeful smut (no matter how "naughty.") Surely there is your element of inventive boasting in most songs - I'm only taking of a small percentage. But to me (and even to Legman) they do stand out.

Further, a huge number of bawdy songs are transmitted by females - even teen & sub-teen ones. This seems to be true in Appalachia (per Legman & Cray), Scotland (per Douglas & Henderson) and modern Harrierness (per several). My impression (unverified) is that females are more likely to transmit bawdy ballads & men bawdy songs.

The main part that makes me laugh that I completely agree with you is the ludicrous notion that sailors, cowboys, loggers, soldiers, etc sang things like they just couldn't wait to get home and hold their sweetheart's hand and have another cup of tea (as it were.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Rex
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:31 PM

As Q says this song doesn't appear in Thorp's 1908 Songs of the Cowboys but it does show up in his much expanded 1921 printing. He has some comments on each song in the book but for this entry he says the origins of this song are unknown.

Rex

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 01:57 PM

Thanks, Abby Sale. The version from the Gordon Collection is "all of a piece" when compared with the fragments in Randolph-Legman under the titles "Old Chisholm Trail" and "That'll Do, Young Man."
(I wonder if the latter is some form was the precursor song ?)

These songs were made up and sung by men who worked in jobs (cattle, sheep, logging, shipping, military service, etc.) or held in confinement where women were few and usually contacted in the saloons and brothels at the end of a long period of abstinance (well, from women, anyway) on the job or in jail. As Legman also noted, there is a strong element of inventive boasting in the songs and stories. The songs thrived in a men-only atmosphere.

Strong emphasis on male superiority, yes, but sadism? In the word, but seldom in practice.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Abby Sale
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 01:20 PM

Lighter, by some surprising song-history, are you referring to his descriptions of elements that are sadistic / woman-hating / violent, etc?

Also look up "The Great Wheel" (aka The Great Fucking Machine) for even more of this. I think Legman is one of the very few to strongly point out this obvious element of certain songs. It makes one wonder where humor (90% of bawdy song) leaves off and plain sadism kicks in.

Subject: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Abby Sale
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 11:23 AM

(Robert Gordon was the first head of the Folk Song Archive - 1928-1932 and an extraordinary collector of field material. "Inferno" was not a separate effort but simply the bawdy material deleted from his other manuscripts.)

Reproduction of the following is only permitted with full attribution to:

The Robert W. Gordon "Inferno" Collection in the Archive of Folk Song, Library of Congress "Adventure" MSS

From Charles E. Roe, Hudson, Massachusetts, August 25. 1930       #3781


THE OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL

Looking for a job, and I went broke flat.
Got a job riding on the Double O flat.

Signs pinned up on the bunk-house door,
"Punchers allowed at a quarter after four."

"Round up and saddle up some old pitching hoss,
If you can't ride him, you're fired by the boss."

As I come a-riding 'cross the OO range,
I was thinking of my sweetheart that I left on the ranch.

I rode on with the old man's daughter,
Guess I said a few words what I hadn't oughter.

I told her that I'd love her like I loved my life,
I asked her how she'd like to a cowpuncher's wife.

Said she'd like it fine, but I better see her dad,
For he got the dough, and it might make him mad.

I went to the old man, as all lovers oughter,
I says, "Old Man, I'm in love with your daughter."

He grins and he points to the Double O roan,
That's piled every puncher that ever rode alone.

Says, "If you can ride that hoss, and not pull leather,
You and my daughter can throw you things together."

Went to the hoss, and slammed on my saddle,
Best damn rider that ever punched cattle.

All the punchers yelled, as all punchers oughter,
For they knew I was riding for the Old Man's daughter.

Jumped in the saddle and gave a little yell,
What's going to happen is damned hard to tell.

Spurred him on the shoulder. and hit him with my quirt,
Gave four jumps, and rolled me in the dirt.

Went to the Old Man to have a little chat,
Hit him in the face with my old felt hat.

Went to the girl, and offered her a quarter,
Says she, "Go to Hell! I'm a cow-puncher's daughter!"

════════════════════════════════════

    THE OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL      (Page 2)

Offered her a dollar, and she took it in her hand,
Punched me in the belly, says, "Well, I'll be damned!."

Threw my arms around her and laid her an the grass,
To show her the wiggle of a cow-puncher's ----.

The hair on her belly was a strawberry brown,
The crabs on her m----- were jumping up and down.

Took my old jockey to the watering trough,
Washed him and I scrubbed him till his head fell off.

In about nine days, when I looked for to see,
Chancres on my p----- were big as a pea.

She found it out, and called me a kid,
Told me to remember her, and by God, I did!

Wrote her a letter, don't think I lied,
Said, I'm leaving Texas, fast as I can ride.

Know a little Injun, damn' pretty squaw,
Guess I'll go and see her, for I leave for Arkansas.

Going to leave Texas, going to head for home,
All on account of the Double-O roan,

Sheep man a-steeling of the Double-O grass,
Boss says, "Shoot him, but not in the ----."

So we pulled out our guns and we got him on the fly,
Crawled in the weeds, and I guess he's going to die.

Chased a bunch of hosses thru the G-- d----- sheep,
The scatterment they made, made the sheep men weep.

Camped over night at the A bar B's,
Got so damn' cold, I thought I would freeze.

Raining hard and muddy as Hell,
Trailing thru the gumbo sure is Hell!

Hit Belle Fourche, and went on a spree,
Sheriff come a running, and he picked on me.

Looked me up in his lousy old Jail.
Boss said he'd be damned if he went my bail.


═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

August 25. 1930

THE OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL    (Page 3)

Just because I worked for him wa'n't no sign
That a cow-poke's boss had got to pay his fine.

Met a girl and thought I'd seen her before,
Tried her, and I found she was a G-- d----- whore.

Went to make a date as a cowpuncher oughter,
Found out the girl was that damn' sheriff's daughter.

Sheriff on my trail, left town on the run,
If he catches up, have to use my gun.

Left Belle Fourche, and left her on the lope,
To keep my neck from wearing out a scratchy old rope.

Going to leave Montana, and marry my squaw,
Going to settle down in Arkansas.


"Additional verses from Slim Guyer, Montana."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:16 AM

Thanks Q! I knew there had to ba an easier way! Now I've put it in my Favorites file

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 11:36 PM

I got the sheet music anyway. Try the index again. It's a great website.
Index numachi

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 11:30 PM

Walking Eagle, used to know a nerd called Dicho, but he got killed off.
I will give you two links-
General Index to Digital Tradition Mirror: Index Digital Tradition

Sheet music, Old Chisholm Trail (if no mistakes!) Old Chizzum

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 09:58 PM

I know this seems stupid, but I got the printed music by typing in Ballad Of Frankie Silver in the Lyrics and Knowledge Search, clicking in the DT BOX ONLY. The next page should give the threads and messages. If it doesn't, make sure that your pull down is set on Mudcat. Click on the thread by Dicho. Scroll down his first message and click on the blue clickie that says HERE. You should be able to figure out the rest. There probably is an easier way to get to this point, but I don't know it. I would appreciate it if someone would share if they know a better way.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 09:36 PM

Whew! What good work! For those interested, the music is available on the Digital Trad Mirror.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 07:04 PM

Not in Thorp's 1908 book. Lomax 1910 was its first appearance, 30 couplets and chorus, without any comments. Caldwell is the only town mentioned (on the present KS-OK border). 'Ar-kansas City" is east of there; the herds would have been spread at least that wide through that area (to make sure all of them found sufficient grass.

The plow story is fiction, I'm told. Why would he do it? The route Depended on water conditions and grass, no one was looking for a straight route. In the 1860s, the area was well-known. Not sure just when he established his stores (Chouteau, farther east, was another local entrepreneur.

Jesse Chisholm was not black- he was Scots-Cherokee- at the time, some Cherokee were slave holders, they took their slaves with them when they were kicked out of the South.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 06:02 PM

Was this song in the 1908 edition (2 years before Lomax) of Thorp's book?? And what about the plow story?? Where from and is it historically correct?

Art

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 05:12 PM

I long ago heard one verse as

Woke up this mornin' on the old Chisholm Trail
Cock in my hand and cow by the tail...

and now I have a difficult time singing it otherwise.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: OLD CHISHOLM TRAIL
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 04:54 PM

Q, I meant all the Presley songs!

Subject: Lyr Add: CHISHOLM'S FURROW by Steve Cormier
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 03:52 PM

Old friend Steve Cormier, himself a working cowboy in days past out of Alma, Kansas, wrote a song he calls "Chisholm's Furrow" recounting Jesse Chisholm sticking a plow tyne in the ground in Texas and actually blazing that trail with the plow to show the best way to Wichita. I gather that is talked about there in Southern Kansas from Wichita on down through Winfield (Highway 10 I think) and on through Ar-Kansas City to Oklahoma and beyond. (15 years ago Ark City, as it is often called, had the worlds worst Mexican restaurant.) I used to take the old U.S. 10 south out of Wichita just for the dusty, un-kept-up 2-lane feel of the road that was actually said to be following this grand ol' historic trail. And in Wellington, Kansas, where you turned left at a stop light/sign to go the last leg to Winfield, you had to go past The Chisholm Trail Drive-in Theater. I took a photo of the place----and then, the next year when I was out that way to play Winfield, it was gone. Now I can't find the photo--- Below I will post the song...

CHISHOLM'S FURROW
by Steve Cormier (as sung for me in February of 1983)

A thousand miles of furrow, a thousand miles of heat,
Little to be thankful for 'cept you ain't bruisin the feet,
From Texas up to Kansas he plowed the furrow staight,
To Wichita, the prairie Princess, as if it was the Pearly Gates.


Chorus)
And Chisholm plowed the furrow north to bring the cattle in,
A dream of comfort and success shared by the women and the men.

The men will try to cheat you and the women'll try their con,
Rowdy Joe and Rowdy Kate and others on the run,
Stay away from Delano---the Earps and the hookers and the city jail,
If you don't walk right on Douglass Street you'll wish again for the trail.

A million hooves to railhead, meat and bone and hide,
Black man-Cherokee's cattle trail became three miles wide,
But now your fame is distant and no one knows your name,
All that's left of your legacy is a chamber of commerce plack with your name.

chorus)
And Chisholm plowed the furrow north to bring the cattle in,
A dream of comfort and success shared by the women and the men.

Art Thieme