BS: POW RESCUED

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Grab
Date: 16 May 03 - 12:59 PM

Art, the purpose of the media is not to report "two day sensations", it's to report what's actually happening. Whether it happens in a media market dominated by a few major players is a matter for discussion, but that is the basic purpose of having a free media.

I don't have a problem with her wanting to stay out of it - it wasn't her (or her family) that created this. But if the military go to the trouble of creating a "media event" one day, you can't call foul when the same media report later that actually it was all a snow job.

Thanks for the link to that news article. As you say, it seems it's not a new story; however this is the first that most of us have heard of it.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: The O'Meara
Date: 16 May 03 - 12:44 PM

There's nothing new about the military or the government using the media for their own purposes if they can, for example the re-staging of the flag raising on Iwo Jima for the photographers, or John Kerry's own comment on his award of the Medal of Honor "Nixon needed a hero..." (In Viet Nam us army grunts had a joke to the effect that a Marine Corps " re-enforced rifle platoon" was the same as a regular one except it had two extra photographers and a sound man.) I really don't know if if trying to "use" the media is a good thing or a bad thing. It seems to have helped the war effort during WWII.

And it isn't all that hard to do. The media thrives on sensationalism, and is more than happy to exaggerate the hell out of a story in order to sell more newspapers or get more air time (The Blizzard of the Century with theme music) or to be the first with the inside story, true or not.

The fact that story of "The Rescue of Private Lynch" has been wildly exaggerated by the media and helped along by the military shouldn't come as a big surprise. But I really despise the fact that such things happen and feel very sorry for Ms Lynch who like it or not is caught in the middle.

O'Meara

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Kim C
Date: 16 May 03 - 11:14 AM

Maybe so, FL, but don't most scholarships come from private endowments anyway? Mine did.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 16 May 03 - 11:04 AM

Kim C.-It's possible that if we didn't spend so godawfully much on our military, we'd be able to afford scholarships for teachers.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 May 03 - 10:41 AM

Sorry, art, I have to disagree. The media is just fine when the gov./mil. want to feed it their brand of news, but when they try to get to the *real* story, they are supposed to forget it and go look for more sensationalist stuff to cover? What, the next sound byte/reality shots from the military or next shrub-landing?

I understand and respect the family's request for privacy, but the military's stance and her still being in the hospital raise a few questions, in my mind, and I am glad the media has reported the other accounts. I hope someday we know the truth of it all.

Just my opinion, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Kim C
Date: 16 May 03 - 10:02 AM

Like it or not, the US military offers educational opportunities that some people cannot afford by any other means. That some people who really want to go to collage are unable to afford a higher education in the US, is certainly not the military's fault. There are only so may scholarships to go around.

I have a friend who is in the Army, and is getting a business degree, while he works full-time training guard and reserve troops. Lucky for him he's single because otherwise, he doesn't have much of a life. Work. School. Work. School. And he is hardly a deranged "kill! kill! kill!" type.

Yes, we should be paying people who want to be teachers. Remember, though, it's college athletic coaches who make the big bucks. But that's another story for another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 May 03 - 08:49 AM

The Iraqi hospital's side of the story is hardly new. It was reported by the Washington Post about a month ago, and here is a copy of that story from the Seattle Times. I really don't know how much bayonet training they get in Basic these days, but I guess I could ask my daughter. I think I had about 2 hours worth in 1967. That's really not the point.

The whole rescue thing, whether you choose to put quotes around "rescue" or not, was a two-day sensation and is now properly over. Her father has made it clear that the family dosn't want to discuss it and the military has made it clear that they don't either, both on its own behalf and speaking for her as a soldier. IMHO, the media should go looking for its sensations and soundbites elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Doug_Remley
Date: 15 May 03 - 11:50 PM

Maintenance clerk or not she had basic training. Is the "spirit of the bayonet still 'kill!kill!kill!?'" or is that politically incorrect in today's coed Army? Seems the policy is still "rifle (person) first, something else second". Her detachment might have been hit by friendly fire as a significant percentage of casualties were. The BBC filed and PRINTED a report concerning the hospital staff's accounts and mock, filmed engagement. I doubt they would do that without considering both legal and international ramifications.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Jeri
Date: 15 May 03 - 08:46 PM

Jon, I don't trust many people who are in front of TV cameras to tell the truth. As I get older, I get more and more fed up with deceptive tactics that seem transparent. I fondly remember remember reporters who at leased seemed to be trying to be imparial. I also get fed up with the fact so many buy one point of view lock, stock & barrel, and will believe anything which supports it.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 15 May 03 - 08:22 PM

artbrooks-She might not have been combat infantry, but it's still embarassing that she had to take one form of service for the country, and a particularly low status form thereof, to be able to afford to give a second, more important, and often even lower status form of service. We should be PAYING people who want to be teachers, not making them risk their lives for the privilege.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 May 03 - 08:01 PM

I'll watch the BBC documentary with interest. I wouldn't put dressing up a documentary to make a stronger case for thier own story beyond them but I do think they are fairer than most of the media.

Spin Jeri, yes, I think there has been spin from all sides and one of the most sickening things of this Iraq business to me is that I have no faith in our own side (ie US and UK governments) for honesty even though I see Saddam and his supporters as evil shits (to put it mildly)...

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 May 03 - 07:17 PM

She was a clerk in a vehicle maintenance unit.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 15 May 03 - 06:10 PM

Everybody seems to accept it as normal that a teenager who wants to become a teacher has to join an organisation which makes her a trained killer in order to pay for her teacher training.

Is it my values that are warped, or is that a slightly sick system?

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:49 PM

Anyone know the usual hospital stay for broken legs and one arm? Honestly just wondering. If I were her I'd be so sick of the hospital AND want to go home.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:44 PM

I don't have a lot of hope for "truth" in the script that goes with the TV movie, or movies, that I'm sure we'll be offered in the fall. I have even less hope for the mental health of Jessica Lynch who will have no privacy to recover from what must have been a desparate war experience.

I'm sure our military was delighted with the original "story line", even if they didn't compose it. What a story, ready made for Reader's Digest. The real story, I'm convinced, will eventually come out and boil down to a very minor skirmish in a much larger military adventure.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: TIA
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:42 PM

There are lots of other examples. Can they all be entirely untrue? Not challenging, just questioning.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Jeri
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:22 PM

The way I remember it, it was first reported she had gunshot wounds, and later that that had been a mistake - no gunshot wounds. I heard it on the news. Heard (the news again) about the attempted delivery which was screwed up because ambulances had proven to be good ambush ploys and the crew didn't speak English very well.

There's a whole lot of spinning going on, but it doesn't appear to be ONLY one side doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:22 PM

Well, TIA, the only item in that report, the one involving demonstrators at the University of New Mexico, that I know anything about is entirely untrue...I was there. I cannot say anything about any of the other claims.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: TIA
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:22 PM

More info. on suppression of questioning and dissent

one

two

three

older but relevant

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: TIA
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:02 PM

try here just for starters

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 May 03 - 05:01 PM

Well, I cannot find an original source for that particular quote, but I am satisfied of the veracity of the story, after researching the it more. Here is further reading on it, from different sources:

Not our only Iraq POW from Talequah, OK;

Interesting UK Guardian report;

BBC report and info on their upcoming show War Spin.

I think it is interesting that the producer of the tv show COPS was on board with the Pentagon advising them on setting up and producing the reality show Stories from the Front Line or whatever it was called. It's mentioned in the links I provided, as well as info on him.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 May 03 - 04:43 PM

art, I am looking at the DoD site now to try to confrim the quote. However, it is important to note that this article, written by Mitch Potter of the Toronto SUN, was published in the Toronto STAR and the St Catharine somethingorother (sorry can't read my handwriting notes) in Canada a week before it appeared in the Balochistan paper.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 May 03 - 04:36 PM

I though I was fairly aware, so please tell me who has stiffled either questioning or dissent (with the exception of dissenting by standing/sitting in the middle of a street)?

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: TIA
Date: 15 May 03 - 04:22 PM

Yes, let's leave Jessica Lynch alone. But, let's not infer that that means we shouldn't question the government. Questioning the truth of the media reality TV version of the story does not impugn Jessica Lynch or her behaviour, or courage or whatever in any fashion.

If we are told that we can't question the government's/media's story because it would be disrespectful to a 19 year old serviceperson, that fits the pattern of being told that we can't question the government's reasons for going to war without aiding and abetting the enemy, or being told that we can't question the existence of Iraqi W's of MD without implying that the Iraqis were better off under Saddam.

Not just dissent, but even questioning, seems to be stifled at every turn in the new USA.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 May 03 - 04:12 PM

Can we, BTW, get a source for that quote which some seem to think means she is under a gag order? I think I'd give the "Balochistan Post" rather less credence than many other media sources. They are, after all, the people who said US accusations against Bin Laden for masterminding these terrorist attacks would not convince anybody who has even a slightest idea about the situation from which Afghanistan is currently passing through after 9/11, which would make me think they are not entirely neutral. Quote is here.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Kim C
Date: 15 May 03 - 03:20 PM

The other 7 from Jessica Lynch's unit were found alive, if I remember right.

I think one of the problems with Instant Media is that inaccurate reports travel fast, and they get out before the reporters really have time to check the facts. Then they have to backtrack, and we're all left scratching our heads. I think it's just a matter of "we have to deliver something to the public FAST so let's open mouth before we engage brain." The ensuing damage control doesn't do anything for anyone's credibility.

I also think we ought to let Jessica Lynch alone. I haven't forgotten what I was like when I was 19. Sheesh.

Don't worry - there will be a TV movie, betcha before Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Marion
Date: 15 May 03 - 02:34 PM

Pardon me for a dumb question, but for most of April I was out of the country and out of touch with the news:

What happened with the other American POWs? Were any more found alive?

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Doug_Remley
Date: 15 May 03 - 02:23 PM

It sounds a bit like the movie "Wag the Dog" and I wouldn't put it past GB Jr to do something like that. Thanks for the links.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 May 03 - 02:04 PM

If she doesn't want to speak about it, fine, then they should say so. Most people would understand and respect that. It's the conflicting reports of first, amnesia, and now the following *pronouncement* which make for skepticism and my use of *gag* order (bold text is my emphasis):

At the Pentagon last week, U.S. Army spokesman Lt. Col. Ryan Yantis said the door to Lynch remains closed as she continues her recovery at Washington's Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

"Until such time as she wants to talk — and that's going to be no time soon, and it may be never at all — the press is simply going to have to wait."

I don't know about you, but I have two uncles who went to their graves with military and government secrets because they were told to keep them and also warned of what might happen if they did not. My father and brother both had high security clearance in the government and military respectively and were likewise sworn to secrecy. If one of their superiors was quoted as hers is above, you can bet they'd consider themselves further gagged, no questions asked.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 May 03 - 01:58 PM

Come-on, folks, the nay-saying is getting a bit out of hand. She was captured by the Iraqi army, so, by definition,she was a prisoner of war.   She was provided appropriate medical care, as required by international law. The BBC says that the American army knew the Iraqi army left the night before they pulled off their raid? So, should they have knocked on the door and walked in unarmed? And if they had come back, what then?

My own experience with the media leads me to disbelieve anything they say. and that includes the BS comments about her fighting until her last bullet was gone as well as the ones about her having bullet wounds when she was captured. The first real report on her condition described her as having a broken arm and leg, exactly as her condition was described by the Iraqi doctor in this article.

Find another victim, people. This is a nineteen year old who deserves something better.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: GUEST,Mars
Date: 15 May 03 - 01:54 PM

I'm not ridiculing anyone's questioning. I'm riciduling what appears to be nothing more than blind following of a story that may or may not be true, on the word of the Iraqi hospital workers who were probably under threats from Saddam.

Why is it so hard to believe that a young woman recovering from a traumatic experience simply doesn't want to talk about it? Why does it have to be "oh it must be a gag order." Maybe she just isn't ready.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 May 03 - 01:45 PM

Hmmm, Mars says Sometimes it is hard to know who's telling the truth and who isn't; it's difficult to separate myth from fact. yet ridicules those of us who question the party line?!

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: GUEST,Mars
Date: 15 May 03 - 01:41 PM

I'm saying that if she was... I doubt you would appreciate the way her story is being handled. But obviously it's easier for you all to just believe every negative thing you're told. It's so EASY to believe there must be a gag order ---- sure, that's why we don't know the whole story. Right! Of course. The Evil Empire and their Gag Orders.

Sometimes it is hard to know who's telling the truth and who isn't; it's difficult to separate myth from fact.

Put yourself in her shoes. Put yourself in her family's shoes.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Gervase
Date: 15 May 03 - 12:01 PM

Mars, what if...?
You mean, if she was, we'd be expected to swallow a lie?
You've lost me there, I'm afraid!

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: GUEST,Mars
Date: 15 May 03 - 11:32 AM

"But Iraqi doctors in Nasiriya say they provided the best treatment they could for the soldier in the midst of war. She was assigned the only specialist bed in the hospital and one of only two nurses on the floor."

Right. And I'm supposed to believe that because...?

You all are unbelievable. This young woman risked her life. What if she was your daughter, your sister, your friend?

What if she was you?

Give me a break.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 03 - 11:31 AM

Hell yes she's under a gag order. The Iraqis were the least of her worries. Hundreds of firefighters in NYC are under gag orders because THEY HEARD BOMBS GOING OFF IN THE WTC.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 May 03 - 11:11 AM

Thanks for the link, Jon. Here's another from a Toronto paper's correspondent for the Balochistan Post which is more extensive an quite interesting. Now, it seems they aren't even claiming she has amnesia, just that she's basically under a gag order, so to speak. Unreal.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Grab
Date: 15 May 03 - 09:40 AM

So I think we can agree that this is NOT good news... Any gunshot wounds this girl has were inflicted by American troops when the hospital staff tried to transport her back home, and the "heroic" US troops only stormed a building they knew several days earlier was occupied only by hospital workers.

To quote a US general at the time: "Some brave souls put their lives on the line to make this happen, loyal to a creed that they know that they'll never leave a fallen comrade."

And some "brave souls" enjoy pretending to be strong and brave, whilst in fact they're cowardly little bullies. What a farce. If I was a member of the US military, I'd be utterly ashamed of this.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 May 03 - 08:47 AM

When are we going to see some coverage on the rescue and repatriation of Iraqi POW's?

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 May 03 - 07:40 AM

Looks like the BBC is to show a program "War Spin" "Saving Private Lynch story 'flawed'".

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 02:57 PM

Last I heard, Mohammed and family were dropped at a refugee camp. Hardly seems a suitable "Thank You". Anyone have an update?

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 11:05 AM

I would have thought someone would have posted this. Perhaps they did, and I'll be happy to make this post go away.

I hear from CNN that 7 POWs have been released by Iraqi soldiers and have been recovered by US troops. These are the folks we saw in that Al Jazeera film, including Shoshanna.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 09:36 AM

Well, now there's a report in my reliable morning paper re-confirming bullet wounds. I wish they'd make up their minds.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:39 AM

Aye Troll---good news, indeed;but much less significant for the likes of me than the death or mutilation of just ONE completely innocent Iraqi infant. Bless the young lady I'm glad she was rescued; but face it---it has been played to death in the propaganda war.

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:28 PM

Nicely posted, Spaw. That appears to be the rest of the story, really one brave Iraqi. Maybe the actor representing him will get a best supporting role, and will donate his award to Mohammad.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:02 PM

Thanks, Spaw. If they do make a movie, that's who the bulk of it should be about!

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Beccy
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:42 PM

Absolutely amazing!!!! I hope Mohammed and his family are being protected. That is AMAZING courage that he showed. God bless him and his family.

Thank you for posting the blicky, Spaw.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:43 AM

Please read THIS STORY which is also being reported by CNN and vouched for by the Marines. Assuming it's true and I personally believe it is, THIS is the definition of courage. We all want to believe that we would do the same but do we know for sure? This man and his family risk all for one American kid....and a female no less. Considering their jobs I assume they are better educated than many Iraqis, but even so the old cultural/religious prejudices exist. In any case I think this defines real courage.....at least for me.

As Bush rambles on about the courage of our soldiers I think he owes more than a passing nod to this man. Just amazing............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:20 AM

Poor little sod. She's fucking 19 years old! Man, I hope those dead bodies aren't the rest of the ones that were shown on Al Jazirra.

Did anyone notice how CNN kept the camera on one shot for hours last night. Two Iraqi tanks with smoke coming out of them. Two guesses to what was inside burning.

Another visual image that won't leave my mind is that "Shoshana"(sic) girl. Eyes darting back and forth...scared shitless.

*****************************************************

Regarding "The Movie". You bet it's being written right now. Ten to one they'll go with the first (inaccurate) account, or simply make up a third.

Damn all this.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: POW RESCUED
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:00 AM

Hmmm? Someone is not keeping to the script. Now it appears that the doctors examining Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch can find no gunshot or knife wounds. Which version of the facts do you suppose will be in the Reader's Digest or in the inevitable movie?

Well, damn it, she's still damn lucky to have survived the ambush, the sucessful rescue, and I wish her well. I do hope she survives the media campaign.

Charley Noble