BS: Not depressed, just British

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 18 May 02 - 03:47 PM

Thanks, Mr McGrath! Never come across that before.

....& Liz, though I partly agree with you, 'Wont You Please Oblige Us With A Bren Gun' was more popular at the time, I think!

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,Bullfrog Jones (on the road)
Date: 18 May 02 - 03:24 PM

Thanks McG!

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 May 02 - 04:06 AM

I always prefered his 'let's not be beastly to the Germans'... which so far, no-one has done here, even though, historically, they've had a far worse reputation for cruelty and barbarism than the French. They just smell better.

LTS

Subject: Lyr Add: THERE ARE BAD TIMES JUST AROUND THE CORNE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 02 - 05:40 PM

THERE ARE BAD TIMES JUST AROUND THE CORNER

They're out of sorts in Sunderland
And terribly cross in Kent
They're down in Hull
And the isle of Mall
Is seething with discontent
They're nervous in Northumberland
And Devon is down the drain
They're filled with wrath on Firth of Forth
And sullen on Salisbury plain
In Dublin they're depressed lads
Maybe because they're Celts
For Drake is hurrying West, lads
And so is everyone else

Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!
Misery is here to stay
There are bad times just around the corner
There are dark clouds hurtling through the sky
And it's no good whining
About a silver lining
For we know from experience they won't roll by
With a scowl and a frown we'll keep our peckers down
And prepare for depression and doom and dread
We're going to unpack our troubles from our old kit bag
And wait until we drop down dead

They're nervous in Nigeria
They're all going crazy in Crete
In Bucharest they're so depressed
They're frightend to cross the streets
In Maine the melancholia
Is deeper than tongue can tell
In Monaco all the croupiers know
They haven't a hope in hell
In far away Australia
Each wallaby is well aware
The world's a total failure
Without any time to spare

Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!
Suffering and dismay
There are bad times just around the corner
The horizon is gloomy as can be
There are black birds over
The greyish cliffs of Dover
And the rats are preparing to leave the BBC
We're unhappy breed and very bored indeed
When reminded of something that Nelson said
While the press and the politicians nag, nag, nag
We'll wait until we drop down dead

There are bad times just around the corner
And the outlook's absolutely vile
There are home fires smoking from Windermere to Woking
And we're not going to tighten our belt and
Smile Smile Smile
At the sound of shots
We'd just as soon as not
Get a hot water bottle and go to bed
We're going to unpack our troubles from our old kit bag
And wait until we drop down dead
I like your story
Land of Hope and Glory
Wait until we drop down dead

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,Bullfrog Jones (on the road)
Date: 17 May 02 - 01:48 PM

I thought I might try to drag this thread back to its humorous beginnings by finding Noel Coward's 'Bad Times Are Just Around The Corner' and posting a link, but I can't find it! Can anyone point to it?

BJ

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: harpgirl
Date: 17 May 02 - 12:30 PM

Here's the DSM69 diagnosis for this side of the pond:

"insular,hysterical, narcissistic grandiosity..."

mind you, I'm only tagging our politicians! dear abby

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Deda
Date: 17 May 02 - 12:21 PM

Back to the question about what an American would be diagnosed with in the Whatsit-Isles, my guess (being an American myself) would be manic-narcissistic. Some of present company excepted, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 02 - 07:23 AM

Well "the Celtic Isles" might sound a bit intimidating - especially with the soft C, which is the way Glasgow Celtic orefer to fans pronounce it.

Pretanii - I suppose you could smooth it out ad call them the Pretty Isles. The Tourist boards would like that, and it's true enough for the most parts.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 17 May 02 - 02:43 AM

To drag this back into some sort of line with the title, is it any wonder that the British are depressed? I mean, just look at the neighbours.

Now sit back and wait for a series of francophiliac explosions.... (francophiliac? Sounds positively painful.)

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 May 02 - 02:30 AM

A Virago is an extremely nice motorbike, I so regret not spending the extra £200 and getting the Virago 250 and getting it restricted..... frugality has it's problems....

Imagine a Harley with taste.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Brendy
Date: 16 May 02 - 10:33 PM

Of course, Paddy, this is true, and if popular opinion deigned it, I would be happy to call The locale, The Pretanii Isles.

Briotáin was either one of the Nemedians, or Partholon's crew; I can't remember offhand, but he is said to have given his name to the tribe of The Britons, where I presume the term 'British', originated.

If this is true, then it is a legitimate enough alternative to the present term. However I wouldn't have insisted upon it being an appendix to the GFA.

It is curious though, Paddy, why any person would object to not calling a whole island group after the area's most powerful military power of the time. After all, The Dutch East Indies, and French West Africa have slipped silently out of our vocabulary, and nobody seemed to mind.

Always good to read your posts...

B.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: paddymac
Date: 16 May 02 - 10:05 PM

Brendy - Happy to see you about again. I'm LOL (but softly) with glee at your suggestion. I apparently touched a raw nerve with GeorgeH a couple of years ago when I made exactly the same suggestion. George went so far as to stridently assert that there were no Celts in England. I politely chuckled to myself and thought of all those citizens of the realm who no longer existed, at least by George's calculus. I haven't seen a post from GeorgeH in quite a while, so I don't know whether he still frequents the place or not. It's true that "britain" derioves is name from a prominent Celtic tribe (I think from the area of modern Wales, but not sure). BUt "Britain" might be one of the earliest recorded mondegreens as the tribe was the Pretanii. History is filled with many curious twists.

There were people on what is today "the big island" some 55,000 years ago, before the last big glaciation, but whether they were present throughout the glacial period I don't know. It's of interest to note that the big island didn't become an "island" until fairly recently in geological terms (about 8,000-10,000) years ago.

By way of contrast, Ireland separated from the continent some 48,000 to 50,000 years ago, and the earliest records of peoples there that I can recall at the moment are in the range of 6,500-7,000 years ago.

Despite "history", I think that Guest stigWeard has the right idea: "Shame really, because underneath, on these Islands at least, we all have a lot more in common than some would like to admit." That extends to those of us removed from there some generations back as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 16 May 02 - 09:50 PM

True nuff, DMcG! True nuff!!!

Not that I wish it were the other way around, though...ick.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Brendy
Date: 16 May 02 - 09:27 PM

How's Kevin...

The reason for my suggestion of 'The Celtic Isles' as something more precise than 'The British Isles', was two-fold.

Firstly, how less intimidating the former looks and sounds (remember the soft 'C' - we're not talking about football teams, here); to name a group of islands after its' first main settlers, than after an entity which represents a foreign policy that was territorial and expansionist.

Whether one is proud of one's Norse and Saxon blood (The Vikings were descendants of the Celts), is neither here nor there; one should be proud of one's lineage, either way.

Secondly, it is more precise.

B

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 16 May 02 - 07:26 PM

I agree with Harvey that this is all getting far too serious, even if I did add to it at the time, and the last nine matches joke notwithstanding (*BG*).

I'm right there with Squeakie Liz - let's ALL see the photo, Mooman!

Pete

PS. And what's this Virago and where can I get some! PPS. My bloody guitar has gone out of tune again. I'm gonna send it back.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 May 02 - 06:48 PM

Why are you "put out" by what happened before you were born? It's history. It tells you nothing about now and should give you no feelings of guilt. That was then, now is now.What is done and said now is all that should concern us.All we should learn from history is that we don't have to repeat it. The choice is ours.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 May 02 - 06:10 PM

I was rather put out (note carefully British use of modifier) to find in our school log book that the children celebrated Queen Victoria's golden jubilee with a ditty called "Hurrah for England" - words not provided, let alone a tune, rather than a celebration of Britain or even the Empire as one big happy family.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Crane Driver
Date: 16 May 02 - 04:12 PM

As someone of Scottish ancestry, born in Wales, brought up in England and now back in Wales, I just can't cope with this micro-nationalism. I know I'm British, but I can't cut it any finer than that. What's it matter? I agree with Harvey - it was all a long time ago, what matters is not where you were born or who your parents were, but what you choose to do with your life.

I'm reminded of a song by (I think) Dougie McLean - The Old Divide-and-Rule. Keep the peasants squabbling over spurious issues like nationalism, it stops us getting together to campaign for social justice. Don't fall for that crap.

One for our Midlands contingent -

What's the difference between Wolverhampton Wanderers and a serial arsonist?

The arsonist would never have thrown away his last nine matches!

Cheers!

Andrew the Congenitally Depressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 May 02 - 02:35 PM

Mooman - send it on down!!! Did I send you my Email address??

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 May 02 - 02:29 PM

Answers..yes.I've been a Blues fan since my father took me aged 7. Wolves was where my wife worked later. And how come such a great humorous posting brings the quibblers and miseries out about national identity? Whatever the past teaches it tells us that it all happened long ago and the world in which we live is the world made by the people living in it today. The only thing we inherit from our ancestors is our genes...we LEARN their prejudices, their hatreds, their blood feuds, their religions. Whatever we screw up today we screw up because we choose to, not because it's inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,not gaelophile
Date: 16 May 02 - 12:26 PM

Gaelophile, I tried to read that and my head started spinning. I trace my ancestry back to my parents and grand-parents. After that it may be interesting but its unimportant to me.

I loved the original posting in this thread. I like the idea of him being "discharged from hospital, with a selection of brightly coloured leaflets and an "I love New York" T-shirt."

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,stigWeard
Date: 16 May 02 - 12:23 PM

I prefer to call them just 'The Isles', which is the title an excellent tome by Norman Davis charting the domination of these Islands by England, with an emphasis on the south-east as the dominant economic and political region of the country.

In truth, most inhabitants of the Isles will have Celt, Norse, Saxon, Frank, Jute, Norman (which is norse anyway) and more than a fair amount of the indigenous population that settled here after the retreat of the last ice sheets.

And here's the crux - the modern concept of nationhood is a relatively modern invention. Until the inhabitants of the Isles recognise their common heritage and the value of all our indigenous cultures, whether they be Scot, Welsh, English or Irish, then this pointless bickering, racism and predujice will go on, and we'll all still be governed by a bunch of morons who do not represent the vast majority of people who live under their rule.

Our heritage is being constantly hijacked by nationalists who insist that the only way to live with your neighbours is to be divided from them. Shame really, because underneath, on these Islands at least, we all have a lot more in common than some would like to admit.

Got that off me chest.

StigWeard

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,Gaelophile
Date: 16 May 02 - 11:43 AM

Read it and Weep

?

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,Saxonach
Date: 16 May 02 - 11:22 AM

I bumped in to your web site the other day Son of Grath.It had a photo of you with your finger in your ear though I suspect the digit spends most of its time elsware.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 02 - 11:01 AM

And welcome back, Brendy.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 02 - 10:56 AM

"Most of this island has been English speaking for a 1000 years." What's that got to do with it, saxonach? Nobody calls them the English Isles.

For what it's worth anyway, "British" refers to the people who were in England before the English arrived, which is why the Romans used the term.

So changing the name to "Celtic" from "British" wouldn't make much difference. The name is Celtic either way - whatever that means.

The neatest alternative name I've seen is the acronym "The WISE Isles" - from the names of the main parts. (That misses out the Isle Of Man and the Cornish of course.) Or maybe "The Isles of Man", from the natural capital of the archipelago, situated right in the middle.

But I can't see either of them catching on.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: English Jon
Date: 16 May 02 - 08:30 AM

Here we go again. Alright have it your way. The English are Celtic. Of course we are. How silly of me to have presumed otherwise.

Bollocks. EJ

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 16 May 02 - 07:17 AM

I get depressed by people calling me British when I'm actually English.

But I got really depressed over the last two days when I couldn't access the 'Cat. Anybody know a good shrink?.

Pete

PS Harvey - how come you don't support Wolves, then?

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,saxonach
Date: 16 May 02 - 06:10 AM

Brendy.It would be nice to have one thread every now and again that did not mention the bleedin CELTS. I'm English and proud of my Saxon and Norse heritage. Most of this island has been English speaking for a 1000 years. How many Celtic speakers are there in UK? 2% ish ?

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: mooman
Date: 16 May 02 - 05:11 AM

Dear Liz,

If Bert can't come up with the goods, it's clearly time to send you that "Virago and leathers" photo I've been promising you for so long!

(;>)

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: DMcG
Date: 16 May 02 - 04:18 AM

In other words, countries are like bodies. They all have assholes. :D

No, they are not, Celtic Soul. Most bodies only have one :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:56 AM

Its a lie about the grey towns. The buildings may all have been grey in Millom, but the front doors were all brown. And I'm with McGrath on reticence about Americans: this is a matter best left unspoken.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 May 02 - 01:03 AM

I think the Englishmen have put a good one on over us. Bloodless? Nah.

Years ago, I was working in a resort where the dining room manager was a VERY proper married Englishman. Sparely built, straight back, thin lips, brief words, the whole bit. Not your basic fun type.

We also had a 'womanly' woman there who spent all her time when not at work, crocheting busily. She kept pretty much to herself.

One evening we came to work and were met by the General Manager with the news that the domestic one and the Englishman had run off together.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 15 May 02 - 10:39 PM

Oh, no, McGrath...do tell! Perhaps some Americans take themselves too seriously, but no moreso than some of any nationality.

In other words, countries are like bodies. They all have assholes. :D

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Brendy
Date: 15 May 02 - 09:34 PM

Celtic Isles would be even preciser.

B.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 May 02 - 09:28 PM

...when they mean Britain and Ireland

"When they mean the UK and Ireland" GeoPoly, if you're determined to be tediouisly precise.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 02 - 09:02 PM

Ozmacca, the cable company here offers a BBC Canada channel for a small fee. I watched it off and on for a couple of months when it was a free trial and saw nothing to cheer about. Didn't buy it. If it was a sample of current British box offerings, there's nothing to cheer about.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 May 02 - 09:00 PM

Last of the Summer Wine is still going on. It all seems very like the kind of get togethers and the kind of people in sessions in English pubs.

Unfortunately the kind of melancholy cheerful quality associated with the English traditionally is being overlaid by all kinds of other less appealing qualities. A sort of in-your-face attitude which shows itself in all kinds of places - football hooligans, politicians, comedians, entrepreneurs, journalists, broadcasters... Even some folk singers. And in most cases, they aren't very good at it either. Maybe it's just a phase they are going through.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 15 May 02 - 08:44 PM

Dicho, they've damn near disappeared from Orstrilian telly as well. When the old Brit comedies disappeared from the screen, we had the whole gamut of poorly managed shows to contend with. There were the American sit-coms which tended to work very hard to give one laugh at the end of a half-hour programme. We also had the rapid-fire shows with machine-gun deliveries and very little to laugh at. And we also got the serials built around one person who is supposed to be funny because they are the star.

After all this , the viewing public's tastes is affected, and they'll applaud anything that they're told is funny. Trouble is, that when a new British comedy is announced it turns out to be UN-funny. The standard is really descending into the rubbish strata. Is this only because we just get the rejects and the good stuff is kept in the UK, or is humour itself undergoing a process of change. If so, how can we stop it declining even further. Bring back Open All Hours, and Last of The Summer Wine etc...

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 May 02 - 08:27 PM

PBS is re-running some of the old British comedies. In spite of all the jokes about British humo(u)r, they are the only really funny programs on TV (with the possible exception of very old Gleason-Caesar-Kovacs-etc. on the cable comedy channel). Comedy and drama have disappeared from current American and Canadian TV.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 02 - 07:37 PM

McGrath,

Regarding your response to:

"I wonder what Americans would be diagnosed with by the British Psychiatrists."

Very nicely put!

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 May 02 - 07:14 PM

Oddly enough, every time I've heard that joke about the fellow having sex with a corpse, he was French and thought she was American. Cultural assumptions, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Gareth
Date: 15 May 02 - 07:03 PM

Kevin -

"Over here, Overpaid, and Over ambitious !"

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 15 May 02 - 06:56 PM

What a brilliant story...& yes, it does ring VERY true!

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 15 May 02 - 06:53 PM

I have to stick my oar in here.... It's got nothing to do with the French, or sex, either. Don't you all realise that the principal reason for the general depression felt by most of the inhabitants of what used to called Great Britain, then Britain, and then The British Isles, and then the british isles, then the aggregate nomenclature for England, Ireland, Scotland and wales and all thie semi, demi or partly autonomus regions, provinces and other bits...... where was I?.... Oh yes.

The main reason for this general depression is that it's been a principal export from Scotland for centuries, and it's now settling to a mean depth slightly exceeding the average person's height.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 15 May 02 - 06:38 PM

You won on Sunday, Harvey? Hope your not an f'ing Birmingham supporter...

Seriously, if you are, I thought it was a great game with great oppertunities from either side. Pip (my mum) and Paul (one of my brothers) were at the match and they said the atmosphere was great between the fans too. I'm dissapointed but can only wish Birmingham all the best.

As for Norwich, I feel they gave it a fantastic effort and am optomistic for next season...

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 May 02 - 06:17 PM

But in what circumstances, apart from an internet pedantic debate, would anyone want to refer to "the islands of Britain and Ireland". It's not a phrase I've heard spoken in common parlance, ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,GeoPolly
Date: 15 May 02 - 06:10 PM

I thought that was an excerpt from Frank McCourt!

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: harvey andrews
Date: 15 May 02 - 06:07 PM

"His story of a childhood growing up in a grey little town where it rained every day, treeless streets of identical houses and passionately backing a football team who never won

harvey Andrews...this is your life!!! Except we won on Sunday and I don't know how to cope with success! It's depressing.

Subject: RE: BS: Not depressed, just British
From: GUEST,GeoPolly
Date: 15 May 02 - 06:04 PM

Dicho,

If you say "the islands of Britain and Ireland" it pretty much covers geography and current political maps. I find the Brits have more tendency to use the term "British Isles" when they mean Britain and Ireland as a "traditional habit"!