BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 07:05 AM

The correct polite form of address is Mr Ban. Using just "Ban" in writing about him would keep on leading to double-takes and is arguably wrong anyway, so I think Dave is correct in suggesting that we call him Ban Ki-moon. "Ki-moon", "Mr Ki-moon" or "Mr Moon" are all laughably incorrect. Best to have a little respect and check it out before using his name.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 06:29 AM

From the Wikipedia entry on Ban Ki-moon:

"This is a Korean name; the family name is Ban."

Best to refer to him by his full name I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:43 AM

"Jim, you quoted from the WW1 thread, starting the drift, "
Wha!!!
My posting from 19 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM .
"Jim, why can you never discuss the issues without making it personal?"
You appear to have no problem with "Muppet know, nothings", "leftie morons" and a whole string of methods of avoiding arguments
Glass houses and stones and all that.
Your ongoing and fanatical support for Israeli terrorism is now legendary - wear your medal with pride Keith."
Stop making things up.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:39 AM

More
"Hamas also flouted the law by operating from among its civilians, so that civilians were inevitably harmed in the inevitable counter strike."
Not the case - certainly not proven.
The International Criminal Court is in the process of investigating whether Israel should stand trial for War Crimes - as with your support for the "Expert" investigation carried out on behalf of "The Friends of Israel", whose "independent investigation team made one visit to Israel (and a couple of later individual visits), interviewed only Israeli politicians and military, did not visit the devestated are and interviewed none of the victims, you are preempting any real independent inquiry in you ongoing support for Israeli terrorism.
Even if your claims are in any way true, the protocol on hostage-taking is to take as many measures possible to avoid innocent loss of life - 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women and press reports of attacks on hopitals, schools, old peoples shelters and homes with occupants still in them appear to indicate random, indiscriminate bombardment.
You have yet to explain your volte face on killing hostages - first you are against it, now you're not.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:27 AM

Jim, you quoted from the WW1 thread, starting the drift, 19 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM .

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 04:40 AM

"As Ki-Moon said, Israel had no choice but to strike back. Anyone deny that?"
Well yes actually – this from The Times of Israel:
"Netanyahu: No limit to UN hypocrisy on Gaza
PM lambastes Ban Ki-moon for singling out Israel on child casualties in conflict, calling his criticism 'a black day for the UN'"
What's your problem with guest's paraphrase Keith, Israeli treatment of Arabs if common knowledge?
Bulldozers
"You posted a quote from the WW1 thread to make an invalid point."
Nore again - this is the start of your diatribe on WW1 - in response to nothing
"Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history"
I think Mike was actually the firs to mention WW1 way, way back
Stop making things up - it makes you look more foolish.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 02:18 AM

It's not a exact quote. It from the stabbing of the Mother of 6 story.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 02:11 AM

Last Guest,
Google can not find your IT quote.
Where did you find it?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 02:06 AM

You were t6he one who raisd the astronomic

No Jim.
You posted a quote from the WW1 thread to make an invalid point.
I just refuted it, and you kept it going.


Hamas flouted international law with its indiscriminate attacks on civilians.
As Ki-Moon said, Israel had no choice but to strike back. Anyone deny that?
Hamas also flouted the law by operating from among its civilians, so that civilians were inevitably harmed in the inevitable counter strike.

Why does Hamas need to attack Israeli civilians?
But for that no Gazans would have been killed at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 11:17 PM

(Not a rhetorical question. What else could they do?)

Shoot the terrorists full of holes dump lard on him and throw him in a hole.
Question the family, emprison anyone who knew, deport the innocent.
Bulldoze the neighborhood and confiscate fifty square miles.
This is the only why to deal with Tribal Arabs.
(Times of Israel comment)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,Moiré
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 11:02 PM

Defence Minister Sharon (R.I.P.) returned territory - then nearly dying went into a comma. U.S. televangelists claimed Divine punishment (probably more likly he was making peace with G_d knowing he was nearing the end)


God save us all from 'Christians' 

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 08:15 PM

please understand that there is one side that wants peace - Israel.

That would almost be amusing, BullshitBruce, if it wasn't so disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 07:51 PM

"Notice he's still alive, unharmed, without a scratch on him."
As are the death squads that roamed the blitz streets picking of survivors, or the officer who ordered patients back into the home then blitzed it with tank fire....... or any of them who slaughtered 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women........
Defence Minister Sharon who was found to be responsible for the Sabra/Shatila massacre of 3.500 refugees was punished by being made Prime Minister of Israel - damned inhuman, if you ask me.
Funny thing, justice!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 03:42 PM

Re. Terrorism, Again (Israel)

Meet Morad Bader Abdullah Adais the 16 year old Palestinian murderer who stabbed an Israeli mother of 6 to death -- in front of her children. He has been apprehended by Israeli police. Notice he's still alive, unharmed, without a scratch on him. In fact, it looks like he's chillin' without a care in the world. His father is quoted in the Palestinian press as being, "very proud" of his son.

This boy is being hailed by Palestinian leaders and much of the community. He may even get a street named after him in Ramallah somewhere. There is no difference between this mentality and that of ISIS.

So, when you hear the media describe what's happening between Israelis and Palestinians as a "conflict"; or hear dishonest politicians call for "calm on both sides", please understand that there is one side that wants peace - Israel. Let this picture of a brutal murderer in custody (and not dead) serve as a reminder.

Terrorism, Again (Israel) indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 02:59 PM

"I suggest you return to the subject before you get this thread closed."
You were t6he one who raisd the astronomic I suggest you return to the subject before you get this thread closed.
e of your historical knowledge Keith, not me - six mentions inoe thread, two in another.
See what I mean about your dishonesty?
Those responsible for the deaths in Gaza are those who hid among the "civilian population while carrying out war crimes against Israeli civilians."
Those responsible were the ones who used the pretence of hiding "terrorists" hiding among the people to slaughter those people in #order to cull them out of the area.
You threw a wobbler once when I suggested you were in favour of slaughtering hostages - now you seem quite comfortable with it.
Progess I suppose - not sure in what direction
God save us all from 'Christians'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 02:08 PM

I suggest you return to the subject before you get this thread closed.

Those responsible for the deaths in Gaza are those who hid among the civilian population while carrying out war crimes against Israeli civilians.
What else could Israel do to stop them?
(Not a rhetorical question. What else could they do?)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 02:05 PM


Really not going here again Keith - you haven't read everything, if anything written over the last twenty years so you can't possible know that

In three years of debate you could find nothing, while I quoted numerous historians dismissing your beliefs as "myths."

Do yourself a favour and stop lying - you said it regularly as a dismissal of other people's argumets.

I am not lying. "Muppet" is not a term of abuse. It is almost an endearment, and anyway I have not used it for years.
This is the most recent I could find,

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 04:31 AM

"Unlike you pair of flag-waggers. I don't dig out 'historians" (or tabloid journalists) to make my case for me "

You can't because there are none who believe the shit that you two muppets do.
If you want to understand History you go to Historians.
I do not use them to "make my case for me" I got my case from them.
You two believe that you understand History better than The Historians.
That makes you a laughing stock.
You two believe that the historians are collaborating in a conspiracy to hide the truth.
Even more laughable.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 01:45 PM

"Nothing written for twenty years disagreed any of my points."
Really not going here again Keith - you haven't read everything, if anything written over the last twenty years so you can't possible know that
It is this repeated claim along with your dismissing everything written over twenty years ago that has made you the figure of fun you have become.
""Muppet" is not a personal attack"
Do yourself a favour and stop lying - you said it regularly as a dismissal of other people's argumets.
If you can't lose gracefully, at least show some pity for us lesser beings!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 12:27 PM

assuming that those who don't agree with you are ignorant of the subject.

Nothing written for twenty years disagreed any of my points.
None of you even knew that.
Nor could you quote anything of recent decades that agreed yours.

"Muppet" is not a personal attack. I call my grand-kids muppets, and I have not used it in a post for years.

The report is not "risible."
Whoever commissioned it, it is the findings of military experts fropm many countries who have worked within the constraints of the Law Of Armed Conflict for all their careers.

Those responsible for the deaths are those who hid among the civilian population while carrying out war crimes against Israeli civilians.
What else could Israel do to stop them?
(Not a rhetorical question. What else could they do?)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 10:22 AM

"Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history"
Which is non existent and extremely arrogant in assuming that those who don't agree with you are ignorant of the subject.
Terrytoon was the only ne wh agreed with you which makes everybody else a no-nothing - bit meglo, don't you think.
Your "muppet insult is long standing and somewhat boring - , happy to dig up some more if you want - glass houses, old boy
"As Ki-Moon"
I really don't care if Moses came down from the mountain with permission for Israel to do what they did - they are under investigation for possible war crimes and would have been decades ago if the U.S. hasn't stopped it.
Israel knows that, which id#s why thy have attempted to get the international criminal court closed down and why "Frieds of Israel" commissioned that risible report.
Denying massacres didn't happen when they did is supporting terrorism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 09:12 AM

I support no terrorism, and regard the civilian deaths in Gaza as unjustifiable.
The problem is not with international law, which was devised by the Red Cross and accepted by the governments of the world.
It is not with those countries that abide by the law, as Israel does but with those who flout it.

Hamas flouted the law with its indiscriminate attacks on civilians.
As Ki-Moon said, Israel had no choice but to strike back.
Hamas also flouted the law by operating from among its civilians so that civilians were inevitably harmed in the inevitable counter strike.

I have never called anyone a "moron," but have often been called one by you Jim.
"Know nothing" referred to the fact that some people attacked my knowledge of WW1 history without having read any history about it themselves. That is as personal as I get.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 07:58 AM

"Jim, why can you never discuss the issues without making it personal?"
You appear to have no problem with "Muppet know, nothings", "leftie morons" and a whole string of methods of avoiding arguments
Glass houses and stones and all that.
Your ongoing and fanatical support for Israeli terrorism is now legendary - wear your medal with pride Keith.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 05:06 AM

Jim, why can you never discuss the issues without making it personal?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 04:49 AM

As for Keith's justification of killing civilians

I do not justify any killings.
All I did was explain the law.
Please do not shoot the messenger.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 04:49 AM

Jim: I think the omissions you numerate would be subsumed under 'the truth'.

I take your point however.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 04:36 AM

"There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.""
More than that Mike - in this case - where are the victim statements, wqhere are the eyewitness reports, where are the rebuttals of accusations of war crimes.
These people didn't even leave the Israeli boardrooms or talk to anybody other than Israelis - or if they did, where are the claims they did.
All the gli
b statements in the world don't alter those facts.
As for Keith's justification of killing civilians - I think words fail us all.
What happened to humanity Keith, or your claimed Christianity, or natural justice, or the right to exist..... or all the other things that are supposed to make humans human?
THe rules of conflict are a formalised excuse for the taking of human life drawn up by soldiers and politicians - sfa about being a human being
Try it sometime, it's quite rewarding.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 02:03 AM

Skimming through, am I dreaming or is Keith advocating a set of rules for armed conflict as employing some of the best minds?

The law was formulated by the ICRC in the 1949 Geneva Conventions.
Almost all nations have agreed and accepted it, but I am sure Musket and Rag could soon come up with something much better.


Call me thick, but the only minds worth mentioning would be those trying to avoid such things in the first place?

Call me thick, but the means of ending conflict has been beyond all human minds in history.
Perhaps you two could sort that one out too.

Even if you take it at face value, nobody seems to have given a copy to either Israeli or Palestinian militants.

Israel abides by the law so it probably has got a copy.

Jim,
Commissioned by the friends of Israel

Yes. This report by this august and independent body of the West's senior and most experienced military, was commissioned by the friends of Israel.
Had the report been negative I expect they would have sat on it, but they must have been confident it would be positive, as it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jan 16 - 12:27 AM

"There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth."

(Variously attributed)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 08:02 PM

"Israel's government and military offered a level of cooperation in seeking to illuminate their actions that is highly unusual in such a context, offering open, clear responses to an examination that went far beyond what our own countries would expect to have to reveal even to allied militaries."
What?
Of course they did, they told them what they wanted them to know
Where is there any indication that they checked what they had been told by the Israelis - at the record speed the report was produced, they would not have had time.
This was a report on a war - where are the statements from the other side - or the observers - or the medical staff - or the press - or anybody else other than the Israelis - .
Are you really suggesting that you can produce a fair report by only interviewing one side of the conflict.
The press reports, from Britain, America, from Israel (Haaretz) contradict the report absolutely - you've been given a small number of them - many, many more waiting in the wings, from all over the world.
Where is the explanation of the commander telling the occupants of a medical home after he had told them to stay in the building - widely reported in the press, not even mentioned?
Or the report from Israeli soldiers describing some of their men picking off survivors struggling over the rubble of their homes - not even mentioned, never mind denied?
Or the press reports of Israeli troops launching rockets from yards of occupied schools, or the flechette anti-personnel missiles in built-up areas, or the destruction of homes with families inside... or the hundreds of eye-witness reports of other incidents - not mentioned, not denied, certainly not disproved -NOTHING.
The U.N. has taken a year of deliberation on a report of these events so far and there is still no sign of it coming out - this **** report was 'investigated, written up, printed and distributed in a matter of weeks.
One fundamental rule of any report such as this is you don't associate yourself with one side or the other and you gather your information from the protagonists of both sides and as many neutral and reliable observers as you can find NOTHING - NOT ONE WORD FROM ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE ISRAELI MILITARY AND POLITICIANS - AND ALL CARRIED OUT FASTER THAN YOU CAN READ AN O HENRY SHORT STORY (usually about three pages long)
It is not only a whitewash, it is downright shoddy a#d insulting to the intelligence - they time they took, the witnesses they spoke to or in this case, didn't speak to), the trouble they took getting both sides of the story (by their own admission, " an extensive fact-finding visit to Israel of the High Level Military Group (HLMG) in early June 2015 and several follow-up visits by individual HLMG delegates and staff." ONE TEAM VISIT TO EXAMINE A WAR THAT LASTED - HOW LONG????
Downright insulting, to say the least!!!
No wonder they found themselves "not guilty" at Sabra/Shatila
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 07:11 PM

Israel's government and military offered a level of
cooperation in seeking to illuminate their actions

Or whitewash them?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 06:56 PM

For you edification and entertainment Pallywood Bloopers......enjoy!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 06:15 PM

Israel's government and military offered a level of
cooperation in seeking to illuminate their actions
that is highly unusual in such a context, offering
open, clear responses to an examination that went
far beyond what our own countries would expect
to have to reveal even to allied militaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 06:02 PM

Links

Here again

And again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 05:56 PM

"The HLMG had unprecedented access to Israel's decision makers, from the Prime Minister and Defence Minister, through the military top-level leadership to individual unit commanders and soldiers as well as civilians affected by the fighting."
Read this report through – with all its implications.
All those examples of who was interviewed are Israeli's - no Palestinian victims – not at all (it would be virtually impossible to interview the many thousands made homeless who actually bore the brunt of Israeli terrorism), this report is based entirely on interviews with Israeli military and politicians.
No human rights observers, no medical staff, no press representatives – these are the people an honest enquiry goes to for information, not just those who carried out the atrocities that w all saw the result of on our televisions eighteen months ago – the claims in this report are not in any way in any way by the press and media reports we were getting daily, which is a good reason for them not being included.
Where's the evidence from 'Medecins Sans Frontieres' who had the job of treating the wounded, or the ambulance drivers who carried off the 2,104 Palestinian dead, including 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women.? An Israeli government official told the BBC that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) had killed 1,000 "terrorists" during the assault on Gaza – mostly civilians and nearly half women and children, it would appear – the ****** figures don't even add up and no evidence of talking to one single witness other than Israelis https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/09/11/israel-depth-look-gaza-school-attacks
What the hell else are the Israeli's going to say - "we didn't do it Guv"
Such enquiries can take years to put together – the one being carried out by the U.N. started a year ago – this one is a hastily prepared whitewash in defence of Israel from their own description – this took two visits to Israel.
This, from the report
"Between June and August 2015 HLMG members and staff undertook two extensive fact-finding trips and four additional research trips to assess every aspect of Israel's conduct in the 2014 Gaza Conflict."
Two ******* "fact-finding trips to explain the deaths of 1,462 civilians - 344 children And 110 women?, is that all those lives were worth, for crying out loud – that is no way to get at the truth – you could have scribbled something more comprehensive on a beer mat??? That is downright insulting, to the dead and to our intelligence!!!
This is little more than evidence hastily gathered by a defending council on behalf of their employers, "The Friends of Israel" – a show-trial in the real meaning of the term.
Jim Carroll

By the way – this is from the foreword of this "independent report, which doesn't even pretend to be independent – it is actually a statement from "The Friends of Israel – not a report.
"No case demonstrates the possibilities for perversion of our current legal system by an adversary better than military operations involving Israel. No matter how effective and lawful the Israel Defense Forces' (IDF) conduct, there is always a barrage of allegations against it. Concepts like "crimes against humanity", "genocide", and accusations in bodies like the UN and the International Criminal Court, are widely and readily used for the purposes of gaining political advantage. The Friends of Israel Initiative (FoII) was founded to defend Israel against delegitimisation campaigns not because we felt a moral obligation or a historical debt to Israel as the State of the Jewish people. Rather, we seek to defend the existence of the State of Israel because in doing so we are defending ourselves and the security and prosperity of the Western world, of which Israel is an integral part"
And this:
This report forms an assessment of Israel's conduct during the 2014 Gaza Conflict, based on an extensive fact-finding visit to Israel of the High Level Military Group (HLMG) in early June 2015 and several follow-up visits by individual HLMG delegates and staff.
TO ISRAEL – WHAT ABOUT A FACT-FINDING VISIT TO GAZA, WHERE THE DAMAGE WAS DONE AND THE MASSACRES TOOK PLACE
This "report is an insult!!!
All they've done is interview the Israelis who told them, "we didn't do it" – that is the substance of the report – which puts the Kahan report on Sabra/Shatila into context perfectly.
Jim Carroll
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/15/world/middleeast/toll-israel-gaza-conflict.html?_r=0

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.642397

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 08:02 AM

"Friends of Israel" says it all.

The HLMG had unprecedented access to Israel's
decision makers, from the Prime Minister and
Defence Minister, through the military top-
level leadership to individual unit commanders
and soldiers as well as civilians affected by the
fighting.   Former officials who have retired since
the conflict took place were also made available.
The HLMG was able to extensively examine all
pertinent aspects of Israel's conduct, as well as the
country's political, military and legal structures.
Israel's government and military offered a level of
cooperation in seeking to illuminate their actions
that is highly unusual in such a context, offering
open, clear responses to an examination that went
far beyond what our own countries would expect
to have to reveal even to allied militaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 06:36 AM

"Yes. Exactly the people to consult on legal and illegal warfare."
Commissioned by the friends of Israel - any enquiry into massacres or war crimes must be totally devoid of all prejudicial influence ' "Friends of Israel" says it all.
We've been here before - the Israeli have now established the practice of enquiring into their own war crimes and finding themselves not guilty, as they did over their role in the Sabra/Shatila massacre - the independent Redmond Enquiry find them guilty of engineering a massacre of 3,500 refugees, their own Kahan absolves them.
Now the world (including those from within Israel) calls for an enquiry into what happened in Gaza and suggests that Israel is answerable to war crimes
'Friends of Israel' commission random military men who absolve Israel.
Israel continues to call for the closure of the International Criminal Court.
Problem solved.

Haaretz
ICC Opens Initial Probe Into Possible War Crimes in Palestinian Territories
Step could lead to charges against Israeli and Palestinian officials; FM Lieberman calls to dismantle International Criminal Court.

Haaretz again
Netanyahu Rejects ICC's 'Preposterous' Inquiry Into Possible War Crimes
'To what depth of absurdity has the tribunal sunk?' PM asks, adding that decision to probe possible war crimes in Palestinian territories runs contrary to reasons for which the tribunal was created.
Let's see, shall we?

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 02:28 AM

I don't drop in too often but it seems worth it, anything to brighten up my day.

Skimming through, am I dreaming or is Keith advocating a set of rules for armed conflict as employing some of the best minds?

Call me thick, but the only minds worth mentioning would be those trying to avoid such things in the first place?

Even if you take it at face value, nobody seems to have given a copy to either Israeli or Palestinian militants. Neither suicide bombers in crowded buses or soldiers aiming machine guns at stone throwing children come under rules by any sane mind. There again, neither do any of the tactics employed in an adjecant thread discussing 100 years ago. Yet the same mindset on this thread is evident on that one. Oh, I get it now....

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST,Tammet
Date: 18 Jan 16 - 02:04 AM

Meanwhile, back to a discussion of this new gang of Jewish terrorists..... {click} 

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 08:42 PM

From Al Jazeera

"The areas targeted by the Russian air strikes on Saturday were mostly residential areas and not for ISIL," Ghareb al-Omawi, a media activist from the Sound and Picture group, told Al Jazeera.

"Two hospitals were also hit in the air strikes in addition to public places. Several people were also injured and have been taken to hospitals in the suburbs."

"Activists say children among more than 40 killed in ISIL stronghold, a day after reports of massacre in Deir Az Zor."

How about them Russkies, eh comrades!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 05:14 PM

Just the people to consult about the rights and wrongs of bombing civilians

Yes. Exactly the people to consult on legal and illegal warfare.

You can wail that the Law of Armed Conflict is unfair to terrorist war criminals, but it remains the best set of rules humanity has ever managed to create to reduce the inhumanity of war.

Extremists can not be allowed to win just because they themselves care nothing for the deaths of civilians, cynically hiding behind them and then exploiting their suffering which they are entirely responsible for.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 02:48 PM

"High Level Military Group (HLMG), made up of retired generals and defense officials from nine countries,"
Just the people to consult about the rights and wrongs of bombing civilians
General Klaus Dieter Naumann (NATO)
Deputy Chief
of Defence General Staff and President of the Italian Centre for High Defence Studies
was the principal attack planner for the Desert Storm coalition
air campaign in 1991
A former Chief of the Joint Staff and Chief of the
Strategic Analysis Group, he has also served as Director for
Reorganisation of the Spanish Intelligence Service.

Every single one of these "experts" are full time establishment military, many associated with a war which locks up terrorist "suspects" and leaves them untried, and locked up in Cuba year after year" - bit like asking General Haig's opinion on the rights and wrongs of WW1, doncha think Keith.
The laws ofd armed conflict (or humanity, for most of us Keith) does not allow for the blitzing of schools and hospitals on the unproven claims that they house terrorists, the use of anti-persdoell and chemical weapons in occupied areas and the mass destruction of homes, in some cases, with the occupants still in them.
I see othing here of the Israeli death squads who went around picking off survivors after their homes were destroyed or an explanation of why there were so many civilian deaths and casualties - missed those bits, did they.
I don't need "experts to tell me such behaviour is wrong, evil, inhuman and constitute Crimes against humanity - my upbringing tells me they are, and if I ever doubted that, I have the reports of human rights bodies to fall back on - never been an issue with you, have they Keith - leftie, bleeding hearts or some such?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:48 PM

The months-long investigation into the war by the High Level Military Group (HLMG), made up of retired generals and defense officials from nine countries, concluded that Israel not only abided by the laws of armed conflict, but far surpassed their requirements.

Israel's "knock on the roof" technique, telephone calls and leaflets dropped warning non-combatants to leave the area of impending attacks and missions canceled due to possible civilian casualties represented a far higher level of restraint than other Western armies, the report concluded.

The IDF standard, explained one HLMG author, Richard Kemp (former commander of British forces in Afghanistan), would be "a hindrance to Western military expediency".

The report also concluded that much Western media commentary on the 2014 war included "stark, unwarranted condemnations of the IDF's conduct that do not accord with our own examination".

HLMG blamed the "vast majority of civilian casualties" on Hamas, who "instituted a deliberate policy to cause as many Palestinian civilian deaths as possible in order to wage a PR war against Israel." Such policies, largely ignored by the British media, included the systematic use of human shields "to avert strikes on its military infrastructure embedded in urban Gaza"

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:41 PM

R sole, I do not defend the law, I merely explained it for the benefit of those ignorant of it.

It should be understood that the Law Of Armed Conflict is the work of the finest minds of the 20th century to humanise conflict, and is fully endorsed by the ICRC.

I am sure that an r sole like you could have come up with something much better, but until you do, it is the best we have.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:31 PM

You don't accept the findings of highly qualified military people on matters of war and imply that they are lying because they were presumably commissioned by Israelis yet you accept the reports of highly politicized NGOs who are funded by interest groups and are not military experts. That says a lot about you.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:17 PM

"So do you think that somehow comprises the findings of the panel of highly qualified military experts? "
"experts" are like lawyers - you gets what you pays for.
Much prefer the independent ones from Amnesty (which you are refusing to respond to)- just as expert, but without an agenda.
Now we'll enter into a "lawyers who sell their books in real gunshops and were born five days ago" battle - can't wait!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:11 PM

So do you think that somehow comprises the findings of the panel of highly qualified military experts? Is that what you are trying to imply here?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:04 PM

"Which means that the organization commissioned the study and owns the rights to the report."
Quite!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:02 PM

Excuse me.
It is never allowed.

Oh RSole, do keep up.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:01 PM

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Amnesty
Reports on the 2015 conflict by organisations not commissioned by Friends of Israel

Again

RTE

BBC

Haaretz

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorism, Again (Israel)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 01:00 PM

"copyright by 'The Friends of Israel Initiative"

Which means that the organization commissioned the study and owns the rights to the report.