BS: Tories just short of a majority

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 May 10 - 12:15 PM

It will mean instant and savage cuts - the ultimate sellout of the electorate for posts of private influence. If young Peston is right.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 11 May 10 - 11:48 AM

Well it looks like Bonzo's taken the time to read something for once.

BBC Report.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 May 10 - 11:43 AM

Labour recognise their efforts to do a deal with the Lib Dems to stay in power are over, the BBC understands - nearer!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 11 May 10 - 11:30 AM

Cons offering a referendum on AV.

Lab offering legislation on AV and a referendum on PR



However, it is starting to look like it could be a ConDem coalition after all ...

... this whole affair is brilliant - the electorate will be better inforemd about politics as a result of these events than ever before.

(with some notable exceptions who couldn't learn a song if it was programmed into them with a keyboard)


If the Cons can give us genuine reassurance on PR then I could live with a ConDem coalition.

The addition of SNP to a lib/lab pact could make things shaky for the country.

I fully understand Cleggs Dilemma.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 11 May 10 - 11:10 AM

Not convinced that AV is a big step forward - but it seems to be what's on offer from both parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 10 - 11:05 AM

"PR" can mean a whole range of different ways of doing it.

Here's the Electoral Reform Society page about a whole range of a dozen possible electoral systems. Weird and wonderful range - about the only thing that 11 of them have in common - they are all better than the first-past-the-post one we have.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 10 - 10:52 AM

Instead of PR why don't we just do away with party politics? Abolish the power struggle? Free the proletariat from oppression by power hungry leaders?

Let's have people standing on issues that the electorate feel are important and let us know how they are better equiped to deal with these issues than the their opponents. They could demonstrate their talents to the general public. Have votes, with the worse one having to drop out each week. We could have Simon Cowell, Alan Sugar and Arlene Philips telling us who they favour and every week important issues could be resolved. As a series finale a small war could be staged with some country that is a threat to our democracy! How about "Britain's got Government", "Parliamentary Idol" or "The put an X in the box Factor" for a title?

Sorted

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 May 10 - 10:46 AM

Therefore Proportional Representation really is a non starter in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 May 10 - 10:14 AM

There would still be the two unresolved debating issues, that of who the MP is representing and that of individuals outside of party politics being able to stand as an MP and sometimes being elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 May 10 - 09:06 AM

All going a bit sour now is it?????

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 May 10 - 08:40 AM

And I hope the working-class tory supporters have got plenty of vaseline. They'll have very sore arses otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 May 10 - 08:14 AM

Precisely so, Jim - and one might think of the lion and the owl dining together too.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:36 AM

Margaret Thatcher's party back in power - doesn't bear thinking about really.
If the Lib Dems throw in their lot with them, I hope they take a long spoon.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:29 AM

Ok we'll all leave lox and leveller to slug it out between themselves as it seems they want to be kings of the school playground!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:25 AM

Lox, I'd agree with all that. Bring a slug out into the bright light of the sun and it'll soon shrivel up and die.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:23 AM

"Well, that says it all!"

Perhaps not all, but a lot - at least I hope so.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 11 May 10 - 06:09 AM

Leveller,

The other point of course is that running away from debate with the BNP, or being afraid of them is not the way to approach the issue of the far right.

It just allows them to grow unchecked and allows then to play with peoples paranoia.

The way to deal with the far right is to include them in the National debate where they can be shown up for who they really are.

As this thread shows, when shallow partisan politics is juxtaposed next to intelligent interesting conversation, it just ends up looking thick and very soon people satop paying attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 May 10 - 06:03 AM

As a member of the Green Party

Well, that says it all!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 11 May 10 - 05:49 AM

Well said, Lox. As a member of the Green Party, I think that PR, or something akin to it, is essential for smaller parties with an informed and popular agenda to be represented. It takes away the argument that there's no point in voting for the Greens because they don't stand a chance and, for this, I'm prepared to confront the far right, in the form of the BNP and their buddies UKIP, on an issue-based agenda. As you say, we need engagement rather than apathy.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 11 May 10 - 05:36 AM

"Another flaw is that PR could result in the more insidious parties gaining seats, while it would be virtually impossible for a local independent candidate to be elected."

This is interesting.

Yes, the BNP will have a better chance of winning a seat or 5 under PR.

However, one of the reasons people cite for voting BNP is that they don't trust the main parties in what they see as the current political stitch up. People feel disenfranchised and ignored, and they turn to the only party that claims to speak for them.

Under PR, people will be more enfranchised, and as a consequence they are more likely to use their vote constructtively.

Take note of the fact that in Barking and Dagenham, where a sustained camaign was waged by Hope not Hate to ensure that people were fully informed about the realities of voting for the BNP, the BNP lost all their seats.

This proves that involving the electorate in the political process and giving them proper meaningful information and trusting them to participate constructively DOES contribute to a more sensible and constructive political environment.

Informed and enfranchised voters are bad for the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 11 May 10 - 04:34 AM

You are happy with it Richard?

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 May 10 - 04:30 AM

Maybe you should send a gunboat, Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,keith A o Hertford
Date: 11 May 10 - 03:32 AM

Alan C.
"The vast majority of MPs in the house are after all English"

Labour's majority was only maintained by Scottish MPs.
Scottish MSPs voted for free social care, tuition fees, prescriptions and school dinners for their people, and Scottish MPs decided it could not be afforded for the English, but the English have to subsidise the Scottish largesse.

NI, Wales and Scotland have their own assemblies and parliament where the English have no jurisdiction, while their MPs decide on matters that only affect England.
Such injustice threatens the whole Union.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 May 10 - 02:33 AM

I still laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 May 10 - 01:33 AM

While PR means that parties are 'more fairly' represented in parliament, it does remove the choice that constituents make on the individual that they want to represent them, and one thing that the election showed was that incumbent MPs that constituencies likes were relected, even bucking the trend in terms of national swing.

Another flaw is that PR could result in the more insidious parties gaining seats, while it would be virtually impossible for a local independent candidate to be elected.

I personally do like that we seem to be heading for a preferential voting system, as used by constituency political parties to put forward candidate for approval for election and the Mayoral election.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,AllanC
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:57 PM

"Once again we will pay through the nose for prescriptions and University fees, while they get them free,"

The original statement that Scots etc would have no representation in a Tory/Lib coalition is of course wrong as a good proportion of the Lib Dem MPs are from Scottish seats. However your point above is pretty pointless as the devolved Scottish govt decides how it allocates its funds so what it gives out on free prescriptions wasn't from extra funding but came from money saved elsewhere in their budget. If English people wanted the same then they should have canvassed their MPs moer for it to be introduced in England. The vast majority of MPs in the house are after all English.
There are of course differing opinions as to who subsidises who but I must point out that the SNP wish for independence where of course only money raised in Scotland would be spent in Scotland - and much of the other opinion within Scotland is for for further devolution with full fiscal autonomy within the union where again as much as possible only money raised in Scotland would be spent in Scotland. The people who are rigidly opposed to this are the arch-unionists among the Labour Party but more especially among the Tory Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:47 PM

No parliament to protect them? Funny, I thought there was this thing at Westminster.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:18 PM

Don, The party most likely to push for tuition fees to be scrapped is the Liberals.

You said in another thread that you are left of centre in your heart, but that the alternatives in the current system compel you to vote tory.

Surely PR has to be the solution to your dilemna?

In future you will be able to vote, not based on the relative probabilities of which lame duck you find less unpalatable, but according to your conscience - and your vote will matter and you might feel like you have a voice in government at last.

We have 1 Green MP in Parliament - who would have believed that last week!

In 5 years we could have several!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 May 10 - 05:51 PM

""Even then, Wales and Scotland will have no voice in parliament under a Con-Lib pact and we all know how the Tories feel about the parties in the devolved countries; it could set politics back for years.""

And a Lib/Lab pact, which cannot raise a majority, will have to offer all sorts of advantages to the Scots and the Welsh, at the expense of the English.

Once again we will pay through the nose for prescriptions and University fees, while they get them free, and no doubt the English, who have no parliament to protect them, will pay the lion's share of the current monstrous debt, while at the same time pouring money into the Welsh and Scottish budgets.

Talk about Turkeys voting for Christmas.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 10 - 04:06 PM

"I'm sure that some of these raving socialists only come out of this site when they go to collect their benefits!"

Ha ha! Come on Boko, we all know that you you sit around in your bedsit in Croydon all day constructing you delusional Walter Mitty world (polo club - as if?). I don't think people 'collect' their benefit these days - dole queues are a think of the past that, thankfully, went out with Bloody Thatcher who, let's face it, put enough people on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:58 PM

Brown will not come back.

I know this may be hard for some to believe, but Brown never had enough power to cause the global financial crisis.

Bonzo - go and look up "projection" in the dictionary - then look up "denial" ...

... then have a go with the rest of the dictionary and learn to read, speak and write coherent english.

Then, use your new found skills to learn about politics and economics.

Till then you are only ever going to be able to write meaningless ignorant rubbish that marks you out as an imbecile.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:50 PM

Oh yes? Well the next benefit I claim will be my first (State Pension in three years time).

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:39 PM

I'm sure that some of these raving socialists only come out of this site when they go to collect their benefits!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:34 PM

The tories haven't been in charge for so long, I don't see how you can say that. Gordon has held the purse strings for so long and made an absolute bolloxs up of things.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:32 PM

And what would a Tory Chencellor have done under the circumstances, I wonder!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:12 PM

What a load of bollocks Leveller. Brown has bankrupted this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:10 PM

What's the betting Brown will turn up as Chancellor in the coalition government? Better than anything the Tories have got.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:00 PM

hi

So it looks as if we are going to get a rainbow government of Labour/Libdems/greens etc etc.

Obvious Brown will have to go....you will never see brown in a rainbow.....

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:58 PM

Just Clegg lickarsing Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:51 PM

Its true.

Brown will step down.

Brown out!

Which means the tories will not Govern.

What were you saying Bonzo?

Something Labour losing?

Something you need to know.

PR is coming in.

Under PR, the tories will NEVER have a majority in parliament EVER AGAIN!

Have fun with Browns Wellies.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:55 PM

and good ridance to him!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 12:39 PM

Brown to resign.
That will probably bollocks up a Con/Lib Dem arse licking coalition.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 12:21 PM

the nice working class lads in Premier League football teams

But most of them wouldn't have votes in the UK anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Acorn4
Date: 10 May 10 - 11:59 AM

results of the General Election of November 1885:-

Conservatives:Earl of Salisbury:249
Liberals: Gladstone: 335   -Lib majority over Cons:- 86

Irish Nationalists(Parnell) 86

Now that was a really interesting one!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 10 - 11:50 AM

How many of them can write enough to make a cross?

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 10 - 11:04 AM

Fuck the rich, they've been fucking us for centuries

No doubt you include in your definition of rich, the nice working class lads in Premier League football teams who must have voted labour!...

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Stu
Date: 10 May 10 - 09:15 AM

"Socialists are so easily wound up - I laugh!!"

Yeah - you're such a card.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 10 - 08:34 AM

"The Libs and Labour have been having face to face negotiations over the weekend"

As opposed to the face to arse Lib/Tory negotiations :)

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 10 - 07:59 AM

Just for the record

Fuck the rich, they've been fucking us for centuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 07:34 AM

Me.

I say that this "appears" to be the official one now.

Appearances may of course be deceptive.


It doesn't matter to me one way or the other.


(and I wish people would read first and and questions later)