BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 01:25 AM

Tommy Douglas is regarded as the greatest Canadian of all time. His greatest gift to the people was medicare. This great man was watched closely over several decades (spies and phone taps) by our illustrious RCMP because he was an avowed Socialist. Some idiots in the USA still equate Socialism with Communism and there was a time recently that "powers that be" sold this shitty line of thought to the American public! Obama tried to introduce such a system but was blocked at every turn by your Congress only protecting the interest of big insurance companies.
Douglas used to tell a story called Mouseland. It is on YouTube and is relevant to todays political world even moreso than in the past!
Mouseland

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 01:24 AM

I think it's utterly ridiculous to say that the people who voted for Obama only have themselves to blame. That's an insult to everybody with intelligence and would cause Perry's camp to collapse in laughter and thank you for that brilliant analysis.

Obama has kept virtually every Bush policy intact. He has not gotten rid of the DHS, he has not gotten rid of the Patriot Act, he cannot manage this war any better than Bush did. He got rid of DADT--well, pardon me, but I really don't think that's important right now. I'm furious with him over his administration's policy on medical marijuana. I'm furious with him that he did nothing about the thievery of contractors in Iraq. He has done nothing about ridiculous TSA searches at airports. Can't close Guantanamo even though he promised to. His attempts to restart the economy have been a failure. He's the best friend the fanatical conservatives have--if he was white, they'd have made a god of him by now.

I think he should step aside and let Hilary run in his stead. Can't be any worse than him.

I'm more disappointed with him than I have been with white liberal/moderate politicians who promise the moon but don't deliver--I knew from experience not to believe them.

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:55 AM

"We all have the capacity for thoughtful choices whether we choose to exercise that capacity or not."

Forty years ago, I'd have agreed with you, Janie. Now, I see it as rich against poor, nothin' less, nothin' more. That said, I sure do hope you're right.

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: Janie
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:54 AM

Well, if there is no hope, then we are all fucked, and we should close this thread and several more as they are nothing but mental masterbation.

Your assumption may prove accurate, michaelr. I agree that Obama has not been effective in passing an agenda I can generally endorse. How Where we may differ is that I am not convinced anyone not furthering the right-wing conservative agenda could be successful in bringing to fruition a more balanced national agenda or plan at this point in history.

A conservative or libertarian president would have undoubtedly been much more effective in working with a cooperative Congress to bring to fruition any number of measures that either Wall Street or Christian social conservatives believe are crucial.

Define effective. And who gets to define effective?

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:30 AM

Obama did not create this mess. Neither did he sufficiently assert himself in the numerous chances he had to help fix it. I wish there was someone other than a Republican running against him.

To imply that the frustration of his progressive electorate is in some way racist, like his Republican opposition is, is ridiculous. He has let *the people who elected him* down in a big way by his ineffective efforts to reach out to the intransigents on the other side.

Bumpersticker for next year: Obama - There's Still Hope

Not...

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: Janie
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:28 AM

I am not willing to hold myself or any other citizen unaccountable for the choices we make, even while acknowledging how easily human beings are manipulated. We all have the capacity for thoughtful choices whether we choose to exercise that capacity or not.

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: Janie
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:24 AM

I don't disagree with your financial analysis, Bruce. It does not pay, however, to ignore the elements of sociology and social psychology behind the choices people make at the polls.

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:02 AM

About 50% of your congress are millionaires. That's split fairly evenly between Dems and Repubs. Your problem ain't the colour of anyone's skin. It's the colour of their damned money. You keep electing privileged people and then wonder why they're looking out for themselves and not the country.

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:20 PM

Four more years of Obama might be productive if enough of those bums in Congress are replaced. They block him, then blame him because he hasn't done anything. It takes cooperation. Compromise, I can understand, but those yahoos seem to be too full of hatred to tolerate anything less than full domination of government. The hump of a nation...

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:13 PM

Janie,

Well put.

I am still waiting for some sign of intelligent life from the Republican party.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: Janie
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:05 PM

I don't know Obama personally, so neither like or dislike him.

Those who are disappointed in him because he has not strongly advocated a liberal agenda have only themselves to blame. He represented himself to be a consensus builder, not married to an ideology. It was clear from the beginning of his campaign that he is a socioeconomicpolitical moderate.   His message of "hope" stemmed from his experience of effective change process at more local levels. Obama's background is community organization. Effective community organization depends on the principles of "getting to yes", and respecting the validity of divergent points of view. Consensus. He tried to do that in the first half of what I now hope is his first term in office. He sorely misapprehended the politics of power on the national level, and inherited a disaster for which he is not responsible, but for which he is now held accountable.

My 82 year old mother, a moderate Democrat, and who worked for Hilary Clinton in the primary elections, has repeatedly remarked on her perception that the uncompromising stance of Republicans in Congress who clearly proclaim their primary objective is not good governance but defeat of Obama in the next election, is rooted in racism. Not necessarily racism on the part of all or most Republican members of Congress, but certainly the willingness of all Republican members to exploit racism, conscious or otherwise, within their power base.

When I consider how apparent it was throughout his first campaign that Obama was a moderate, not a liberal Democrat, and read or listen to the disappointment with him and his positions that liberals express, I have to ponder that racism is involved also, i.e. an assumption that an African American Democratic candidate will strongly advocate liberal positions, ignoring the candidate's history and position statements to the contrary.



A

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 10:56 PM

Myself, I am weary with people attributing all their frustrations and problems to whoever is currently in the hot seat. **Obama** did not create this mess, and 3 years is not long enough to fix it when all the Republicans have done for those 3 years is stand in the way and scheme about getting power back!

No wonder the Republicans have such a weird lineup....they are trying to choose between crazy people shouting right-wing slogans instead of looking for intelligent, competent leaders! In this world, it would be hard to find anyone who can navigate the political & financial minefield, but Obama is smart and is trying under trying conditions. ... I shudder to think what ANY of the Republicans would do if handed all this mess.

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 09:42 PM

Yeah, joez... I find it incredulous that BIG MEDIA has written off Obama's chances of winning re-election... I mean, are they looking at the list of morons, misfits, retards and psychotic malcontents who the Repubs are down to????

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: gnu
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 08:47 PM

Much as I find it odd to kinda agree with you, I kinda do. Of course, this is a "one time offer" of support for your kinda okay analysis. I kinda agree with 9.

Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 08:13 PM

OK. LOL. Josepp, I appreciate the subdued nature of that post. And lots of your citizenry feel just that way. More power to you.

Subject: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 08:06 PM

How can I vote republican? Look at this latest flap over Romney's religion. What kind of people are these that decide whether you're qualified for a political office based on your religion or lack of?? Something the Constitution forbids!

This is so goddamn ignorant, I cannot feel anything but the deepest loathing and contempt for anyone who subscribes to such a view. Rick Perry is the stupidest asshole in the race for allowing this kind of thing to go on in his camp--stupid, fucking dickhead.

I have more respect for Rush Limbaugh than Perry and I have NO respect for Rush Limbaugh. He will say you're not qualified for office because you're a liberal or you're not conservative enough but at least that has something to do with politics. But to say someone isn't qualified for an office because he's not the right kind of Christian is such a low blow, so completely worthy of contempt, that there is no way I can vote republican. This should not be an issue.

So even though I feel Obama has let me down, has not been the harbinger for meaningful change as he passed himself off as, and really does not deserve to be reelected, who else is there to vote for? Rand Paul? My problem with him is that he is making every attempt to woo the same crazy, bigoted shitbags that Rick Perry is pandering to. He makes no attempt to present his arguments to decent people and you have to be suspicious of that. Sometimes his sound bytes come across as reasonable until you get in depth and you realize he's off his rocker like all the other GOP dipshits.

So it looks like four more years of Obama and that angers me because surely there must be someone out there who can get something done. Obama can't get anything done because he's spending too much time reaching across the aisle to a gibbering pack of baboons who want him dead. And it has to be someone who can bring change that will benefit most Americans instead of a crazy minority of assholes who should be run out of the country or locked in prison camps for the terminally stupid.