Ireland's Favourite Folk Song

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 29 Apr 19 - 02:29 PM

I have read back over the thread and cannot see... or have missed this one which gets sung in bars all over Ireland and in clubs in England.....Has been performed by The Dubliners, Dick Gaughan and several other well known Irish singers....... would have thought it would have been a great contender. Song for Ireland.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 03:30 PM

Some candidates? I'll start with a few:

The Last Rose of Summer
Wild Mountain Thyme
Meeting of the Waters
She is Far From the Land
Bodenstown Churchyard
Nell Flaherty's Drake
Eamonn an Chnoic
Cill Chais
Slán le Máigh
Liam Ó Raghaille
Amhráin Mhuighnise
Sliabh na mBan

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 10:39 AM

Disappointed that Brian Mullen has become involved in this nonsense - he's a fine singer with a great respect for the tradition (as will probably be seen tonight if he puts in a return appearance in the second Sam Henry programme)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 10:30 AM

Sorry Peter
The newspaper jut mentions five today, I (wrongly apparently) assumed they wre all
"That's what I'm saying Jim, you should respect the tradition of having weird song competitions."
Like Eurovision - you mean ?
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:56 AM

@Peter Laban,

Thanks for link. I was a bit too negative in my former post. I thought wrongly 'twas just mainstream musicians were involved. Those people seem to know their business.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:45 AM

With all respect Jim, that's an extremely silly thing to say.

The Jury

You have at least heard of Brian Mullins, Nuala O'Connor and perhaps Mary Black and Leagues O'Toole at least. Aside from those there's an ethno-musicologist from UCL included Whatever else we think of this competition, it's not really a bunch picked up randomly off the street.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:39 AM

That's what I'm saying Jim, you should respect the tradition of having weird song competitions.

that's why they do so well in the erovision song contest - they're match ready!

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 08:13 AM

"As most Irish people have very little interest in folk music of any kind,"
Considering the huge uptake of traditional music by thousands of young people (far in excess of anything that's happened in my lifetime), you have to be joking
Stupid competitions such as these are a result of the increase in interest
I've just seen a list of the panel - a political journalist and four total unknowns
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 07:34 AM

Forty Shades of Green must be I with a chance?   you can't get more Irish than that, surely?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 07:31 AM

As most Irish people have very little interest in folk music of any kind, I don't expect this poll to have much relevance. No doubt one of the small number of token Irish songs people sung at musical occasions will win.

Another thing, could this poll have been hijacked by some group with an agenda, as happened in the BBC poll some years back when "A nation once again" was selected as the greatest song of all time or some such title.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM

Face it, Ireland is a weird place."
SURE IS
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM

Face it, Ireland is a weird place."
SURE IS
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 05:44 AM

Face it, Ireland is a weird place.

They've been doing weird song competitions for many years. Theres a short story about one in The Dubliners by James Joyce.

I've only been involved in one, but I rank it as one of the strangest experiences in a fairly strange life.
After dragging me all the way from England as a a finalist - I seem to remember there had been a lot betting on the result in the surrounding towns, and there were dark mutterings about corruption in high places. One poor sod of a contestant was the guitarist in Crystal Gale's backing band - and he had come all the way from America to take part.

The judge turned out to be a cleric who bore a striking resemblance to Father Ted.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 05:31 AM

To return to the thread, I believe today is a significant one in the life of the ridiculous 'favourite folk song' competition on RTE?

What sounds a LOT more interesting is the first of three hour long programmes about Seamus Ennis on the 'Rolling Wave' at 9pm tonight- marking his 100th anniversary next Sunday.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:29 PM

Dennis is the name of the makers of fire engines. its on the front of every fire engine in England.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Colonel Fraser
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:27 PM

Dennis fire engines. Google it.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 12:16 PM

Dennis? Why Dennis?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 11:46 AM

"It is just that I get tired with the derision piled on Morris dancing by the popular media."
I feel the same about folk song proper Dave :->
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Elmore
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 10:42 AM

My favorite Irish folk song is "Summertime" rendered by that late great Irish lad Doc Watson.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 10:18 AM

We were once walking from one venue to another, in full Morris gear, when a fireman leaned out of his fire engine window and asked, "which one of you is Morris?". Quick as a flash one of our number replied," Me. Which one of you is Dennis? ".

No apology needed, Jim. No offence and no raw nerve. It is just that I get tired with the derision piled on Morris dancing by the popular media.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:42 AM

"I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing"
I was a joke (a pun on the name 'Morris' actually) - not a piss-take Dave
I do that sort of thing regularly
I think I hit a raw nerve - for which, apologies
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:31 AM

No offence taken, Jim. As I said, I was just a little surprised. Maybe you didn't see the exact words I wrote because there were tears of hilarity streaming from your eyes :-)

I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Iains
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:24 AM

I guess the "Unquiet Grave" won't make the top 10 then!

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 08:23 AM

My point exactly - jokes between folkies
If you wish to find offence in a joke, you disappoint me
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:57 AM

That was a joke Dave

Of course it was, Jim. So is "How many folk singers does it take to change a light bulb? One to do the work and 3 to sing a long boring dirge about the dead one. In unison."

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:49 AM

" You are happy to take the piss out of Morris dancing"
That was a joke Dave - I'm not a fan of Morris Dancing personally (for various reasons, (including the misogyny that has dominated up to now), but I've watched it with pleasure and have close friends who participate
If you can be jokey about what a folk songs is and what's suitable for folk clubs, surely you're not going to throw your toys out of the param if I ake a joke about Morris - or maybe I've misjudged you.
I've never commented on wooly jumpers and beards and my attitude to 'finger-in-ear' has been to explain it rather than "go ballistic (as you appear to be going now)

Are people really suggesting a song composed for the music hall 1911 (by Billy Merton) - not "the folk" is a folk song ?
The scene really must be in a bad way
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:29 AM

Sorry for the aside, but..... 'The Spaniard who blighted my life' which has survived in my own family and thrives among the people even after 109 years".
Used to be a great favourite of Stanley Robertson.
Meanwhile, back in Ireland........................

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 07:05 AM

anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get

Made up nonsense, Jim, and you know it. I said I would be happy to listen too a couple of Ed Sheeran's songs done acoustically at a folk club and I would be happy to hear the man himself performing traditional material at the same venue. I have never described him as a folk singer and challenge you to show where I have. Once again you know you are in the wrong and try to obfuscate the issue with wild inaccurate statements.

Stick to the point. You are happy to take the piss out of Morris dancing yet go ballistic if anyone dare mention wooly jumpers, beards or, heaven forbid, fingers in ears. Why is that? One law for Jim and one for everyone else I guess.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 06:15 AM

Jim, I really can't see the point of even trying to engage with you- you have your views and I have mine- I never mentioned personal taste so that's irrelevant too!

As previously, your main aim seems to be to insult me for no good reason and to start another pointless argument. I thought my question was polite and to the point- basically that if a song is still popular after 109 years, it must have some validity!
I should have known what would happen and I'm not interested - have a nice argument.

As I will no doubt get another abusive reply, may I get in first and suggest that you take your books, your recordings, your tunnel vision and Jimmy Miller as well and shove them up your Khyber.
Good night- back to the thread.....

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 06:12 AM

'anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get'

probably a gig on cambridge mainstage.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 05:54 AM

"RTE didn't do that, so the whole thing is ridiculous."
I agree
" I don't believe in such definitions "
That's ridiculous as well - folk song is a closely researched and documented Musical/poetic form of creation - to say you 'don't believe in that sort of thing' flies in the face of logic
The folk scene was based on a specific type of music and it produced some incredible and long lasting results in printed and aural form
If you thin a long rejected pop song is suitable for a folk club you and I live on separate planets
You insist on making it "my definition" - it isn't - it's the documented definition which happens to suit me
I see a future in an Irish scene that has come to recognise the importance of its folk traditions - I see a rapidly declining British folk scene that puts up the same arguments as you do
Your personal tastes atre of no interest to me as mine should be of no interest to you
I'm attempting to document a lifetime's work in folk arts as internationally agreed on in order to make it available for future generations (as entertainment and as social history) - I'm no longer sure what the English scene is trying to achieve by by`digging up hackneyed comic songs that have about as much chance attracting a young audience as does be-bop or The Charleston
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 05:14 AM

Jim- we all know your trenchant & often stated views on what is a folk song. I disagree as you know.

That is irrelevant, what I'm saying is you can't even set up a competition like this without defining your terms. RTE didn't do that, so the whole thing is ridiculous.


At a singing session last night, I sang a 1910 pop song 'The Spaniard who blighted my life' which has survived in my own family and thrives among the people even after 109 years. I'm not saying it's a 'folk' song- I don't believe in such definitions but does it have any validity in the tradition in your book?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Stanron
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 04:31 AM

No folk song started it's life as a folk song. It started it's life as a song which was popular enough for others to want to learn. It started as a popular song. You figure it all out.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 04:09 AM

" I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you."
You give as good as you get where I come Dave - instinctive defence
anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:53 AM

Nah, not a folk song :-)

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:51 AM

Rule Britannia!

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:02 AM

I did, Jim. I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you. With your passionate views on maintaining the tradition I thought you may have refrained. Or at least come up with something more original.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 08:27 PM

" I guess it is not really a pop song by your definition is it?"
I have no definition of pop song other than popular
Most disappear shortly after they have run their commercial value - others become 'standards' - still pop but old pop
It's a great song - one of namy I play regularly, lik mid career Sinatra, or Billie Holliday, or Ella....
Dooesn't make them anyything other tha what they are - certainly not folk
Enjoy Morris - or Bernard, or George...
Jim

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 06:31 PM

I may be an old fart, but surely more of the Irish people are likely to know songs like 'Wild Mountain Thyme' than lesser known Pogues songs, like a 'Rainy Night..' Then Bogle's 'Green Fields of France' is not quite on the public conscious scale of 'Wild Rover' 'Whiskey in the Jar, 'I'll Tell Me Ma' etc. In terms of the Pogues 'Fairytale of New York' is in a way now a modern seasonal folk song and known to everyone. Clearly the selection 'panel' have skewed the choices of the people. I'd love to see the actual proportional voting figures and not what the panel selected. Obviously sectarian/rebel songs on both sides would have polled as well. List programmes though are lazy programming. Not as bad though as Channel 5's Nation's favourite biscuit, sweets and other vacuous space fillers.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 05:17 PM

He is still about, Roger. Severely disabled after a stroke but still managing to get out to clubs regularly. I last saw him at Swinton early this year and he managed a floor spot and plugged his new book!

The only bit of that song I remember is

Suppertime and the liver is greasy
Fish are jumping and the sausage is high... :-D

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 03:00 PM

DtG
'Supper time' by the wonderful Ted.
Remember it well.
Whatever happened to Ted?
Roger.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:58 PM

In your own words, Jim, pop songs are quickly forgotten and don't last long. Porgy and Bess was first performed in 1935 and is still selling out nearly 85 years later so I guess it is not really a pop song by your definition is it? I wish you would make your mind up! Or at least just give us enjoying folk music in England a break for just one thread.

Anyway, Morris practise calls. I shall just go off and play those tunes of no consequence that no one ever hears any more in England and leave you to cry into your beer over Englands past glories...

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:51 PM

" no Ed Sheeran, which has to be a blessing"
Amen to taht, but give 'em time
" I don't really want RTE to decide what are my country's favourite songs -"
Amen to that too
It's not too long ago that RTE were contemptuously referring to Irish traditional music as "diddley-di" music
It's probably not a coincidence that exercises like these have only come to the fore at a time when traditional music proper has made it on its own terms largely without the help of the media - cynical opportunism
I know one of the ex directors of RTE - a man dedicated to traditional music - he often spoke about his struggles with 'them upstairs'
The Irish language channel, TG4 has always given traditional music its share of airspace
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:38 PM

I'd love to see the other entries, and to know how high the votes were for different songs. I don't really want RTE to decide what are my country's favourite songs - the people of the country should decide that…

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Cj
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 02:05 PM

I was fully expecting to see a MacColl song in there, either Shoals / Shores or DoT. Still, no Ed Sheeran, which has to be a blessing. I wonder how close The Whole of the Moon came to be included?

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 01:59 PM

That's a folk song

"I've heard "Summertime" done extremely well by a number of people at folk clubs."
Yeah - I've come to realise the English clubs don't know their folk arse from their pop elbow nowadays
That's why people stopped going to the clubs - they didn't know what they were going to find when they got there
What does being "done wellhave to do with anything ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 01:51 PM

https://youtu.be/tZoqYZ2Hd9c

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 01:18 PM

Final list:

On Raglan Road (poem by Patrick Kavanagh set to traditional air Fáinne Gheal an Lae)
The Green Fields of France (ie No Man's Land by Eric Bogle)
A Rainy Night in Soho (The Pogues)
The Foggy Dew (by Canon Charles O’Neill)
The Town I Loved So Well (by Phil Coulter)
Óró Sé Do Bheatha Abhaile (by PH Pearse)
Danny Boy (by Frederick Weatherly)
The Parting Glass (Scottish traditional)
Rocky Road to Dublin (DK Gavan)
Only A Woman's Heart (Eleanor McEvoy)

I'd lay good money on The Town I Loved So Well being voted in, given the rage and indignation over the shooting dead of young Derry journalist Lyra McKee last week in Derry (the town she herself called Legendary).

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 12:50 PM

I've heard "Summertime" done extremely well by a number of people at folk clubs. As well as Ted Edwards' parody "Suppertime" (and the liver is greasy) :-) I've never heard Waterloo or The Birdie Song at a folk club though.

Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 19 - 12:42 PM

"But the 'folk' seem to have accepted 'Summertime' as the kind of song 'sung at parties' -
As they have Abba's Waterloo and The Birdie Song
This attitude robs folk song of its uniqueness and importance as a people's art
You have given your own answer - by counting yourself out you can have no input in this subject
Jim