BS: Guns & laws in the US

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Songwronger
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 11:01 PM

Name calling's a good sign in a debate. You always want your opponents to revert to infantilism. But you forgot to throw in something about tin foil hats and black helicopters. That was posted on YouTube today. The video's only 47 seconds long and shows a black copter flying low over Chicago.

Chicago's a perfect argument in favor of gun ownership. The city's been virtually disarmed. VERY prohibitive gun laws in Chicago, yet gun crime is through the roof. Law-abiding citizens can't own guns, so they have to fight shooters with baseball bats.

Chicago's mayor is Rahm Emmanuel, whose father was an Israeli terrorist. He helped found Irgun, a terrorist organization. Those poor people on the ground in that video get shot at by criminals and terrorized from above by terrorist rulers. They need guns.

Emmanuel has recently claimed broad new police state powers, so look for something to happen in Chicago before long. Perhaps the bullshit "race riot" meme that's been planted by the Obama team will be played out in Chicago next November. Close election, staged race riots in Chicago, and the town is shut down on election day. Illinois' 20 electoral votes are held hostage until things can be sorted out. JFK's slim victory was attributed to the rigged Chicago vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 06:26 PM

Richard... you got any stats on that "moment of anger" thing? Got any stats on how many people have knives in their kitchen? Got any stats on crimes committed with knives? or baseball bats... or anything else?

The USA is not fascinated with guns. That is a simplistic statement which is unsupprtable.

The USA has a problem with supporting reasonable and effective gun laws. Doesn't anybody outside of the USA and Canada realize just how MANY guns exist in our countries? LEGAL guns... LONG guns. MILLIONS and MILLIONS. I sm only 55 years old and I put food on the table with a gun when I was a lad. Millions in NA still do so. Whay can't any of you antis get that?

We are on two VERY separate topics here... legal guns for lawful purposes and guns that people don't need and shouldn't have, especially criminals. The NRA is right. Guns don't kill people. People who want to ban ALL guns kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 06:03 PM

Actually a 45 cal hardball does more damage then a 45 hollow point. Why because the bullet only travels at 900 ft per second and won't open anyway. No target shooter I know uses hollow points, too expensive. We make our own wad cutters

What we have today with our laws is like this example:

What if we said, because of all the drunk drivers we will pass a law that the drinking age is now 30, next we will limit the size of beer sold in cans to 8 oz only ... However, one day a week, lets say Saturday, the bars and lacquer stores do not have to card anyone for any alcohol purchased

you see that is the way we have it now for gun laws. We do this other stuff but let the shows go and have no standard for training requirements, and let the states do what they want .. and wonder how gangs get fully auto AK-47's

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 05:36 PM

I can't be arsed to read all this again.

There's a long piece on it all in today's Guardian.

It does rehearse the amazement of the rest of the world at the US fascination with deadly toys.

It also points out the unspoken corollary to the NRA mantra.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

But guns make it easier and a moment's anger terminal.

The US gun lobby needs to grow up and put away the symbols of playing Cowboys and Indians.


It also points out that the NRA is white, ageing, and heading for being a minority demographic any time real soon now. Dr Strangelove anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 02:20 PM

I agree with the five shot clip rule (here it's 5 for rifles and 3 for shotguns for obvious reasons)in a way but not all the way because only an amateur can't reload a CLIP weapon fast enough to avoid being overpowered. Or, someone who can't count. When it goes "click", that's a bad thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 01:03 PM

The point is, Bill, that the Gifford's shooter was wrestled down while attempting to reload... I understand ol-ster's point about being concerned about that first bullet, however...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 07:42 AM

Ask Trayvon Martin if he feels that a limited magazine would have made him safer.

One bullet in the wrong hands = One dead schoolboy.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 07:32 AM

I guess that's what I was meaning, Howard, but you said it far more eloquently!

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 07:28 AM

I just find it strange that a country which holds itself up as a beacon of democracy and the rule of law doesn't feel it can rely on those for "protection against tyranny". Are Americans really so distrustful of their system of government and legal structures that they feel the need to arm themselves against them?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Apr 12 - 07:12 AM

What's the weather like up there on the Planet Zog, or whatever other loony-tunes planet you live on?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Apr 12 - 09:00 PM

Self-protection and protection against tyranny--those are the reasons for the Second Amendment to the U.S. constitution. And it says, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." That's pretty straightforward. Gun legislation is illegal, at least at the federal level. States can try it, but technically they violate the Second Amendment when they limit the right to keep and bear arms. We need to roll back gun laws, not beg for new ones.

Recently the Department of Homeland Security ordered 450 million rounds of .40 caliber hollow point ammo. Hollow points aren't target rounds, they're killers. And that's just ONE ammo order they've placed.

And then there are the new DHS SWAT vehicles, and some of you want to give up your means of self protection? Why don't you just take a razor to your balls and be done with it?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 12 - 08:06 PM

Yes... we know.. ANY large clips are serious. 5 shot 22s are serious... people carrying hand guns who have no need for them are problems. But Dan's point is well taken.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 12 - 08:02 PM

Okay, Bill...5 more dead... Oh??? Times 3... That's 15 more dead...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 16 Apr 12 - 08:00 PM

"he was just pointing out that 10 is not much safer than 15."

Yup. I seen a guy with three clips taped up in a configutation that allowed him to approximate a belt feed on an M16. Common practice in the military. Now, the Canuck made M16 actually works well (Bro told me that the yanks he dealt with would pay big money to trade M16s with them) and, the version (A6? I can't recall) fitted with a 200 round drum, it's a nasty piece. But, Dan's point is about bullshit legislation made to appease and not to do any real good.

That's way thread drift. But, this thread is defunct anyway IMO. Ran it's course. Only rehashes many other threads with countless posts and opinions ranging from thoughtful to just fuckin stupid. Fact is, the gun laws in the US suck. Why ? It's a mystery. The gun laws in Canada are taking a step backward. Why? Even MORE of a mystery. Especially when you add on the fact that we don't have a constitutional right to own firearms. The regression of our legislation guarantees the right of stupidity. Especially by our politicians.

It's a sad day here in Canuckistan witnessing the demise of the registry (especially because it means the POL* and PAL* will be gone too... unacceptable to me). Never thought I would say that. Maybe I am growing older and wiser too?

* Possesion Only License; Possesion and Aquisition License.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 12 - 07:31 PM

I don't think he 'defended' large clips... he was just pointing out that 10 is not much safer than 15.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 12 - 07:19 PM

Face it, ol'ster... There doesn't seem to be too many sane policies for controlling guns that you agree with...

Another, "yeah but" rebuttal...

Let's just say that I believe that the very modest and well though-out policy changes that Bill has outlined are a baby steps... Not T-Rex steps... The VaTech shooter would have killed more people with a bigger clip... Same with the Gifford's shooter... Same with Columbine...

Why defend unlimited clips???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Apr 12 - 11:47 PM

Ok, Bill now I get what you meant. But I gotta tell ya. I don't feel any safer with a criminal pointing a gun with 10 rounds in it vs a criminal pointing a gun with 15 rounds in it. That is the kind of laws we get and many anti gun people say yes good job ... when in reality it is a meaningless stupid law that fixes nothing. So for each of these they pass and claim victory, more criminals keep getting more and more illegal firearms because no real action is taken for whatever reason. It ain't about more laws, it is about applicable laws and that has been largely ignored. No one is happier then the criminal when they restrict lawful owners of anything. Criminals would be delighted to have a no gun at all law. Then they can run amuck like Mexico being the only ones who have them. Laws don't apply to them, ya gotta lock up their sources for getting them. So passing a couple hundred more useless rules does nothing unless their sources for weapons are dried up by serious and knowledgeable law makers, nothing will change and the NRA will continue to fight everything that comes down the pike, including the good ones. anyway done with the thread and rant

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 12 - 12:37 PM

Sorry, gnu - I read "responsible gun owners, who appear to be in the vast majority" as meaning that the vast majority of gun owners are resaponsible gun owners, which seems very likely. If you meant something else I misunderstood your meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 09:40 PM

I "cherry pick" items relevant to the topic of the thread. If extreme environmentalism were the subject, examples of that would be in order... just to clarify what we must be aware of and eventually deal with.

I was against Carrie Nation busting up saloons, against the Ku Klux Klan, against the extreme rabid 'feminists' in the 70s, against 'tree huggers' trying to totally stop logging.... and now I am concerned about those who brandish guns against those who would regulate guns.

I try to be a reasonable, moderate, pragmatic guy who at least SEES all sides of a question, even when I end up on one side. My basic goal is making sense....and I do NOT decide too early what I consider sensible.

I used to 'tend' toward getting rid of guns... but that now seems both unreasonable and impracticable. I may change my stance again as things develop. Meanwhile, obvious 'rotten cherries' will be noted and picked.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 08:25 PM

Ok... one last post because I didn't see McGrath's last post.

Are you fuckin serious? You said, "if "the vast majority" of people who like having guns..."

That is NOT what I said.

I am going to actually say gnightgnu now because what I want to say to McGrath is not very nice but everyone who read his last post will understand what I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 08:13 PM

Bottom line???

No, the NRA doesn't make the laws... They just buy the folks who do and have every politician in the country, President Obama included, in fear of them opening their va$t war che$t of ca$h to defeat anyone who suggests even the slightest sane legislation to make us safer from being shot by a wacko...

Bill's suggestions aren't radical... They are quit sane... No "taking away your gun" unless you are a wacko...

Zimmerman has a wacko history... Treyvon Martin would be alive today if we had sane gun laws... We have no laws... None... And here's the worst thing about this: The NRA thrives on people getting shot by wackos... Great for gun sale$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 08:05 PM

Yeah, Dan. So many threads, so many posts, so little understanding. Pretty much the end for me too.

For all of youse who don't understand what drives the NRA and won't stand up to them, posting your complaints ain't buttering the biscuit. Do something about it. Start the NARA... BUT... do it in a reasonable manner on accounta that there "cold dead hand" thing eh? They fuckin mean it! And they got guns up the ass.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 07:53 PM

"Or, are the antis, including responsible gun owners, who appear to be in the vast majority, just not smart enough to take on the gun nuts?"

So how is it "inane" to ask, if "the vast majority" of people who like having guns are sensible people who don't like what the NRA does, why don't they just get back into it and work to turn it round so that it actually reflects the actual wishes and interests of gun owners?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 07:45 PM

If you want to live in a country with a total ban on gun ownership try Mexico .. no one in Mexico is allowed to own a firearm ... worked out well for them right ... just watch the news. Yup they get them from us in the US but they are not allowed to own any gun. Working great right. guns ain't going away, what we do is try to control what we can that makes sense .. anyway I am done here

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 07:42 PM

Bill... yes it is VERY serious. Have you seen any of the news coverage of Egypt? Libya? Syria? Sudan? and countless others?

The general public has a basic right to defend themselves. At the most basic, British common law says that I, as a weak, old, frail man can use a baseball bat to "even the score" against a young and strong aggressor. US law says one can use a gun if required. I do NOT see anything wrong with that... with LEGAL gun ownership.

Come on eh? Legal gun ownership is NOT the problem. In fact, it protects even those who do not own guns because criminals are deterred by legal gun ownership.

If all the antis got together and formed the NARA and pushed for REASONABLE gun laws that addressed real problems (in the US... we don't have your "easy access" problems in Canada because our laws actually are logical and well applied... even tho that may change with long guns ONLY) with aquistion and ownership... Bob's yer uncle.

So, when are you gonna start up the wheels of motion and get the job done? Come on... there is money to be made. Form the NARA and you can be pres and get a good salary and save the good ol USA. Win-win.

Sorry to make light of it, but, in the end, I do find it all a bit of a joke. Albeit a very sad joke that allows so many people to suffer sinmply because nobody understands the big pic or the compromises that benefit everybody. Seriously... the compromises and understandings benefit EVERYbody.

Surely, it couldn't be any worse?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 07:36 PM

Yup and how about if I poke around and find some of the radical shit from the extreme environmentalists that think setting fire to houses in California is ok to preserve the Eco-system. That actually happened. Ya know you can cherry pick anything if ya want to .. if you want a serious debate then we can have one .. but if you want to use over zealous crackpots as a global example of all gun owners, you are pissing up the wrong tree

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 06:28 PM

and... lookee HERE

serious stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 06:24 PM

"...not smart enough to take on the gun nuts? "

Or afraid of what 'some' gun nuts might do if they could identify the 'smart' ones.

Those "cold dead hands" bumper stickers are serious to some of them

lookee here

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 06:23 PM

this thread has actually been one of the better discussions we have had. More civil then our usual :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:36 PM

Dan... "They saw so many stupid meaningless gun laws passed that now they dug their heels in and fight any gun law even those that would make all the sense in the world."

Well... TWO of us understand why the NRA does what it does. That's a start, I guess. Both of us disagree with their policies and the way they do business but that doesn't seem to matter to those that wish to tar and feather us. Once again, I disagree with the NRA policies. I yanked my membership, my membership with the Canuck affiliate, and my membership with the New Brunswick Gun Owners Federation... or whatever the fuck those assholes called themselves, and The New Brunswick Wildlife Federation or ditto, and a few others.

The NRA is not the problem. The apathy of "good people", voters and politicians, IS the problem. Or, are the antis, including responsible gun owners, who appear to be in the vast majority, just not smart enough to take on the gun nuts? Maybe THAT is the real problem???

Gitter done!

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:33 PM

When I go to the sportsman's club and talk to all the guys, all hunters, all target shooters and say 2nd Amendment they all go hell yea our rights yada yada .. but if I said, do you guys agree that no felon should own a weapon or it should be harder for them to own a weapon... hey ya .. all would respond. No one wants to see guns in the hands of criminals. If I said well if you could only buy your firearms from a licensed dealer would that be an issue if we had no shows. Well 99% would say, I only buy from licensed dealers anyway because I know the guns aren't stolen ...

it is all how it is put to people .. Instead it is all put like .. they are taking away the constitution .. you see its the propaganda machine

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:27 PM

Well...then my woodworking show might return.........

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:19 PM

I tell ya what, the last thing I would want to be today is an ATF agent. Those poor bastards are trying to swim up Niagara Falls with all of the weapons being peddled. I would vote hands down to anyone running that said they would eliminate the gun show

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 05:07 PM

Note the 3 tiered problem..

1)The NRA lobbies with lots of $$$ against any changes.
2)Members of Congress who might be willing to DO some changes fear they will be defeated by NRA lobbies, and that they will be unable to pass sane legislation on other issues. IF they are replaced by NRA stooges, their replacements will likely be worse on all issues.
3)IF there were a grassroots effort which actually got some sort of progress made and a few laws thru, the 2nd Amendment challenges would end up in the Supreme Court, where several of THOSE justices are essentially owned by lobbyists for Conservative causes....and if someone actually got the 2nd Amendment revised (requiring 2/3 of Congress), THAT would have to be ratified by 3/4 of the states, which can take years. The "equal rights for women" amendment died when a number of states (guess which ones) never ratified it.

It took YEARS to g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y pass laws limiting tobacco sales...and tobacco was proven to be be a danger. I have no idea if the gradual approach is possible with guns.

Because of the history of the country, and a 2nd amendment written in such a way that make it hard to interpret, we have gradually developed a 'culture' that expects firearms to be part of daily life.

Even sane people commonly use & keep guns and adopt the "I'm not the problem" attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 04:46 PM

I don't believe they support the bad guys, I think myself it is more like GNU said. They saw so many stupid meaningless gun laws passed that now they dug their heels in and fight any gun law even those that would make all the sense in the world. Somewhere we gotta address the root of the cause of illegal firearms and starting where they are most prevalent. But alas I am not in office and anyone in office that tries seems to get labeled against the constitution.   It is all a cluster fuck actually

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 04:25 PM

Well it is the NRA's pac money but it is our Politicians who are afraid to do the right thing in my opinion for what it is worth. I know they put a lot of pressure to have that damn stand your ground law and the reduction in difficulty for conceal carry in many states. What is worse I think is a state like Florida has reciprocal agreements with something like 12 other states that honor their carry permit. Yet it is very easy to get a carry permit in Florida .. that was a push the NRA wanted and got was the reciprocal agreements. So ye it bothers me

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 04:02 PM

So let's see. Along with almost no one else, the NRA by supporting the gun-show exclusion 100% (along with almost nobody else), makes itself the best friend of street gangs, violent criminals, dangerous lunatics, Mexican drug lords, domestic terrorists, you name it - all the "outlaws" that (according to them) law-abiding gun-owners are narrowly holding at bay.

They call it "protecting the Second Amendment."

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 04:00 PM

Well I wish the legit sportsmen could take back the NRA ..Sadly I think it has just become a political organization anymore and no longer about the sportsman. Beside we would all have to join again and then give them money to continue this stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 03:18 PM

"But why don't the sensible gun people control the NRA and make it lobby sensibly?"

Another inane question.

Why is it their job alone? How to they do that? Why are the antis not doing it? ALL sensible people should make it happen. Fact is, the system of lobbying is problematic in SO many "venues" and talked about by many people, including Obama. And, here is another fact... people like to whine about injustice(sssss) but they don't like to get off their ass and DO something about it. Seriously, why is there no NARA? Hmmm... I think I should spell that out in case somebody didn't get it.... National Anti-Rifle Association.

Your question is truly illogical and mis-guided. It's up to the voters and the politicians to enact laws... not the gun owners per say. That is just ludicrous.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:56 PM

while I am on my rant want to make us even more safer? pass a federal conceal carry law so ass wipe states like Florida don't keep giving carry permits to people who are breathing and pretty much nothing else. Maybe some young black man with candy won't be gunned down. Try NY state for a model

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:41 PM

wanna make a ton of money legally, just buy up every rifle, shotgun etc you can get your hands on then sell them at a show for 5 times what you paid all cash, all legal.

then when someone is murdered by one of them just fall back on the line "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and then sleep well at night

it is all insane all of it

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:35 PM

I had a lot of people ask me why I thought the 10 round clip law was nonsense. Well it is because the guys that sprayed 15 rounds in a drive by would never be allowed to own any firearm in the first place but got them from a show. So limiting the magazine only impacted a competitive shooter and no one else. It did nothing to make anyone safer ... you see nonsense laws and then the politicians can claim "look at me I did something about guns" ... no in reality you politician you did nothing to help, nothing at all

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:27 PM

Its a valid question Gnu, the sportsmen would support a law to restrict this stuff, but it never gets to even a bill in congress. Out political leaders have no courage or are getting money for their campaign from the NRA. Don't know. Oh they will pass a stupid law like no more then 10 round clips but even that is nonsense since a billion grandfathered clips exist. Yet I can buy a 50 round drum magazine for an AK at a show legally. There are more than 20,000 gun laws and pretty much all of them are left at the door when entering a gun show. Bob is right in that regard, no gun laws at all there. So our leaders pass nonsense laws that only impact sportsmen or competitive shooters and let the bad guys run amuck with assault weapons without restrictions of any manner.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:26 PM

But why don't the sensible gun people control the NRA and make it lobby sensibly?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: gnu
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:17 PM

"But isn't it also the fault of gun owners who let the NRA lobby against sensible regulations on stuff like gun shows?"

Obviously, yes. Surely they also vote, no? I don't understand why you need to ask that question. Seems to me to be an odd question to ask.

???

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:05 PM

"As for the NRA lobbying, well, that's the governments' fault as well as the fault of the people who elect the governments."

But isn't it also the fault of gun owners who let the NRA lobby against sensible regulations on stuff like gun shows?

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 02:04 PM

it seems really simple to me, stop all gun shows period. If you want an AK-47 why I don't know for whatever reason but you go to a licensed firearms dealer and go through the paperwork and background checks. There is no sportsman I know or competitive shooter that has any problem with that at all. I never bought a firearm from anyone outside a licensed FFL dealer. Most like me, hate the whole idea of the gun shows as all it does is arm the bad guys to the teeth. Political leaders afraid of the NRA calling them anti-american ... They have the perfect comeback with just the death toll alone, anyone with common sense would applaud any politician that say we are going to stop this shit now.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:53 PM

and you are so right Gnu. I myself could turn an AK-47 to full auto in my sleep, I wouldn't ever consider doing that but I could without question.

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:51 PM

I go to a lot of auctions, always looking for my pocket watch or some artwork that I love. Always there is a shotgun for sale. The auction guys always say "we are not a gun show, if you bid you can pick the gun up at the sheriff's office after the background check" No harm no foul all on the up an up. But anyone over 18 can walk into a gun show, buy x number of AK-47's, plop down the cash and walk out no questions asked no background check, no paper work and it is legal. So our political leaders pass another law that does nothing, protects nothing, solves nothing and then claim victory (like the colt .380 handgun that is nothing of a weapon) but the real problem, the drive by shooting, the border patrol agents getting murdered, where are the weapons from .. not an auction, not a licensed firearms dealer, not a guy with a concealed carry permit that allowed himself to be photographed and fingerprinted by the FBI ... nope ... by the gun show

Subject: RE: BS: Guns & laws in the US
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 01:49 PM

Well... I see 'understanding' of many issues by both gnu and olddude. I am curious what if any reaction there is to my ideas about database and controls AT gun shows...(since I doubt they will ban them)