BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 10:54 AM

Agreed, Fred, but these people are not being kind and I don't understand why.

Good point MaJoC. It doesn't have to make sense but if we understood why these people are making excuses then we may be able to address whatever issues they have in a more positive way.

Dick, my point is that Faeage is not, as you put it, "stealing a policy from Corbyn about water nationalisation". Corbyn did not invent water nationalism. He is not the first to come up with renationalisation either. Farage is a grifter and will say anything that he thinks may be possible. If you are going to argue against him you need to get the facts right and the fact is that Corbyn is only one of a long line of people who believe that our water supply should not be in the hands of big business.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 10:37 AM

It doesn't look like a backlash to me, DtG: more an excuse. It doesn't have to make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 10:19 AM

Dave Polshaw
at the present time water is privatised in the uk, Corbyn has been talking about rentionalising it, farage after criticising Corbyn for taking about nationalising it, has now done a u turn

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 10:03 AM

I don't hold with all this racism nonsense. If someone is kind to others, that's all I care about and I'd be proud to call 'em a friend.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 09:10 AM

First and foremost, the attack on a Manchester synagogue last week was dreadful. What I am seeing as a backlash does not make sense to me though. I am sure that antisemitism is still rife but I do not see it being as obvious as other forms of racism. I cannot open the news or social media without seeing awful comments about Muslims or "boat people". The only hate I see towards any Jewish people is about the Zionist genocide in Gaza. What am I missing? Is antisemitism really on an upsurge or are the Zionist apologists just putting up a smokescreen? I really don't know

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 07:22 AM

Farage isn't cunning: he's opportunistic. He'd flog any policy as long as it fell off the back of a lorry.

By the bye, I understand* that those with the same surname (found in quite a small area of the country) usually pronounce it as if it was spelt "Farridge". Is the [redacted] attempting to impress Hyacinth Bucket?

* Peter Trudgill's "On Language" column in New European World.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 03:27 AM

Water was nationalised in the 1940s. I don't think Corbyn came up with the policy as he was only born in 1949.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 01:25 PM

Farage is very cunning, stealing a policy from Corbyn about water nationalisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 01:18 PM

ROTFLMAO!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 01:08 PM

> Four Word Slogan

That's just inflation*.

* 7.45% per annum, compounded over five years.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 12:26 PM

Well, the Tories have upped the ante- at their Conference. From their usual Three Word Slogan, they’ve gone seriously up-market, and have a Four Word Slogan! That’ll have the voters running to the polling-stations…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Oct 25 - 04:00 AM

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/andrew-visited-epstein-on-childrens-charity-trip?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-gb link to article in Observer newspaper

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 30 Sep 25 - 03:03 PM

If I hadn't mentioned that I don't vote, there wouldn't have been comments about it.

If you post in a public thread, as I did, you have to expect and accept others will pick up on it. Why shouldn't they?

I've no problem with it, just that at the time I wasn't thinking straight.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Sep 25 - 12:29 PM

" But in this day and age to come into a political thread and discuss not voting, well, that's a head-scratcher." quote
A number of people do not vote, as a protest, or because none of the candidates are what they want to vote for. what is a head scratcher about that, it is quite clear.
lets face it if 95 percent of the people refused to vote, that would mean politicians were elected by only 5 per cent of the population, hardly a mandate to govern.
Perhaps the non voters have realised that they are represented only in name, but ELECTION CANDIDATES firstly represent the corporations that sponsor their campaigns

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 29 Sep 25 - 06:52 AM

Stilly,

That's ok :)



I'll be away awhile as there's much to do in a short time. But, unfortunately, I'll be back before you know it :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Sep 25 - 10:21 PM

So sorry we seemed to be picking on you, Fred. There are some kinder, gentler threads to drop in around Mudcat when looking to see what people are doing. The BS: stay out of trouble thread (stay afloat) thread is an excellent example (this is a second iteration since thread length is a thing we have to be careful about now, or they vanish from sight). The knives are sometimes pretty sharp over here in the UK politics thread (though probably better than the guns in some of the US political discussions). Over on the stay out of trouble thread you're liable to find commiseration, helpful suggestions, and occasional recipes. Give it a read (and there is a link to the much older longer thread in the first post).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Sep 25 - 04:08 AM

A few valid points in the link but, in my opinion, there is too much hyperbole. Yes, the government will be able to access your information. They already can. Starmer is the most unpopular prime minister. Really? So soon after Johnson and Truss? Only brought in to look tougher on immigration? Just as Starmer attacks deform? Hmmmm. I am ambivalent to the idea of ID cards but I think the article needs a bit of balance

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 27 Sep 25 - 03:48 AM

Worrying link about ID cards here. What is happening in the World?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 02:14 PM

Dave,

Yes, absolutely, I get that totally. It's just that I wanted it to die down but it didn't.

Anyway, let's forget it - water under the bridge. I read the Green Party manifesto, thanks for that. Some good things in it, made me think. Maybe, who knows! We'll see :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 01:08 PM

Fred. You explained why you don't vote and a number of people offered counter arguments as to why you should. It is how debates work. Entirely up to you whether you accept the counter arguments or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 12:12 PM

SRS,

I didn't come in to discuss non-voting, it was just dropped into one of my posts and was picked up on.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 12:04 PM

I don't believe anyone was being nasty. It's all in how you read them to yourself, borrowing an attitude that wasn't intended. But in this day and age to come into a political thread and discuss not voting, well, that's a head-scratcher.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 26 Sep 25 - 11:58 AM

When I applied for membership, a few months ago, I said that I wouldn't get involved in (or cause) arguments.

However, when I said in this thread that I play no active part in elections, it seemed to fire members up. It wasn't said to have that effect.

However, it seemed to build and build, and I didn't understand why. After all, I don't say you shouldn't vote, so why do you say I should? Surely it's my choice, just like it's yours?

As for leaving, and all that - well, maybe I shouldn't be so sensitive about what others post, even if nastily to me. It's a forum, sh*t happens, toughen up.

So I'll be staying.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:35 PM

”if you can't find the perfect candidate to represent your position, hold your nose and vote for the candidate who will crimp the style of the worst candidate in the race.”

That’s precisely my position - for many years I voted Liberal/Lib Dem, not because I’m a Lib/Lib Dem supporter, but because, in my safe-Tory-seat constituency, Labour always came a very poor third with the Libs/Lib Dems a much closer second. It seemed sense, therefore, to vote Lib/Lib Dem in the hope they would oust our long-sitting Tory MP. Sadly it never came to fruition and, following what I regard as the treachery of the Lib Dem coalition with Cameron’s Tories in 2010, I’ve preferred to vote Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:24 PM

Being a perfectionist means there will never be an ideal candidate for you, Fred. It's frankly silly to stop participating in the discussion because the perfect answer doesn't come along, and it doesn't negate the statement I made before - choosing not to vote is in fact a vote. So pull up your socks and look at the field, and if you can't find the perfect candidate to represent your position, hold your nose and vote for the candidate who will crimp the style of the worst candidate in the race.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:14 PM

Don't go, Fred. We need all views here

Apart from deforms ;-)

Oh, and, I think

200

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:11 PM

”if you didn't vote you have no part to play in a political discussion.”

I wouldn’t go that far, Raggy - we are all citizens of our country, to all intents and purposes we have free speech, and we are all entitled to express our views. But I just wouldn’t feel entitled to complain about the government if I hadn’t voted, that’s all.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 03:48 PM

I've complained about no outcome of any, not even non-uk. election.

And members rights to participate in this thread has nothing to do with voting, it is surely at the discretion of those in charge of the forum.


i left a previous forum hoping for better here.

Goodbye.

Fred

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 02:09 PM

Not voting is voting, but for an outcome you have no right to complain about.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 02:00 PM

" if I didn’t vote, how could I complain about whatever the outcome turned out to be?"

Correct BWM, I would go a step further and say if you didn't vote you have no part to play in a political discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 11:46 AM

For me, the most important reason for voting is that it’s the only thing that separates us from the serfs of the old Feudal system, and it’s the one and only means of having a say, as small as it is, in the running of our Society (with a big ‘S’). ‘One man, one vote’ was long- and hard-fought for, and I regard voting both as a right and a duty.

I agree that politics is in a bad place right now - Populism has very much taken charge, and the tactics of 1930s Germany are surfacing. Despite my constituency being similar to Dave’s, where a pig would get elected if it wore a blue rosette, I voted Labour in 2024. I got the same Tory MP as previously, but I got the government I preferred. Unfortunately, they have turned out to be something of a disappointment, but at least I took the opportunity to state my preference - if I didn’t vote, how could I complain about whatever the outcome turned out to be?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 10:13 AM

Fred, i understand your reluctance to vote but i always encourage everyone to vote, even those who would never agree with my choice. You might not like any of the choices but you could always vote for the least worst party. It would be better than nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 09:30 AM

Can't say fairer than that Fred and no apology needed.

I have mentioned Green before but I am not trying to push them. Honest! But does their manefesto give you a reason to vote for them?

Green Party Manefesto

I just don't like to see people giving up all hope of a better future due to the current crop of shysters! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 08:42 AM

Dave, to be fair, you're not trying to convince me to vote for people I don't trust. I take that back and apologise.

And it's not like I WANT to be a non-voter. If they gave me a reason to vote for them, I would.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 07:43 AM

I posted this in the Trump thread because it is by American Poet, William Stafford. It is just as apt here

Learning

A piccolo played, then a drum.
Feet began to come—a part
of the music. Here came a horse,
clippety clop, away.

My mother said, "Don't run—
the army is after someone
other than us. If you stay
you'll learn our enemy."

Then he came, the speaker. He stood
in the square. He told us who
to hate. I watched my mother's face,
its quiet. "That's him," she said.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 07:26 AM

Powerlessness is a symptom of a zombie democracy that serves no one but the politicians and their authoritarian, wealthy masters.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 06:47 AM

I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote for anything. Just to make sure that the right to vote is maintained for our children and grandchildren. We can see that right being eroded in the USA right now. I know that you are disheartened with the major parties, as are many people, so why not vote for someone who YOU think CAN make a difference? I vote every time I can. In local elections, we are lucky to have a plethora of independent and very effective councillors who get my support. In the general election, in this area, if you put a blue rosette on a pig it would be elected so I either spoil my vote or go Green. I used to be a supporter of the Labour party but unless they go back to their roots and start to help those in need, they shall not get my vote again.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 05:48 AM

Dave,

Farage doesn't have me in his stable. I'm a little too old in the tooth to fall for it.

As I said above, Farage knows what resonates with certain people. If they fall for it and get disappointed, that's them.

Honesty is a big thing for me. Caring is another. Ok, you'll see above in this thread that, as a small child, I was a scallywag, but in adulthood I'm very different.

I want politicians to make a difference to people's lives and I don't see that. I see them poking holes in the air with their finger, or making wonderful pre-election promises that they conveniently forget once they're elected.

Yes, our forefathers who fought so hard, what do you think THEY'D say about today's shower?

Sorry, Dave, you seem a lovely bloke but you're not going to convince me to vote for people I don't trust. I'd rather kick the bucket :-D

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:21 AM

"they get heated in their defence of the party they support"

Sorry Fred but that is not happening here. The only thing people are getting heated about is what is right and what is wrong whicher party is doing it. Yes, they have all done things differently to their manifestos and that is wrong but to use that as an excuse to shirk the responsibility to vote is equally wrong. Our forefathers fought hard for the right to determine our own governance. Without that right we would have never been able to vote for those who gave us decent working conditions, pensions and the NHS. You don't like the main parties. That's fine. Vote Green. Vote independent. But for heavens sake don't give up the hard won right to vote. And don't fall for the populist line spun by deform :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 12:15 PM

Erm...rant over lol sorry.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 11:41 AM

One of the things I dislike about politics is that it robs people of having fun, they get heated in their defence of the party they support.

And that's why I came here, that's why I posted. Politicians say one thing and do another. Are they worthy of your support? I don't think so. It's why I don't usually get involved. I feel, if I defended them or worse still supported them, I'd be as bad as they are. So I devote myself to helping others less fortunate, or I'm taking home injured wildlife I've found so that Mrs Fred can take them to the vet. I'd rather do this a million times than go into a polling booth just once.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 08:43 AM

"So what you're saying is, scapegoat excuses to whip up hysteria :)"

What I'm saying is that Deform UK are guilty of employing the politics of division. The Tories too, to perhaps a lesser degree. And that's how it happened in 1930s Germany.

I was born just after the end of WW2 and, as a little lad, I remember my dad telling me about Hitler, the Nazis, and their treatment of the Jews. And i remember him telling me not to worry, "It could never happen here".

Guess what, Dad...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 07:07 AM

I'm just pulling your leg, BWM ;)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 06:25 AM

So what you're saying is, scapegoat excuses to whip up hysteria :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 06:05 AM

It’s Populism - telling people what they want to hear, persuading them that all their problems are caused by a minority who are ‘different’, convincing the less-well-off that their enemy is those even worse-off.

In 1930s Germany, it was ‘the Jewish problem’. In 2020’s UK (and, for that matter, the US) it’s ‘illegal immigrants’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 05:52 AM

But I think Farage would find a way to rally the people anyway, without the BBC.

I think, as well, that it's just words. If people buy into it, I think they're heading for a disappointment.

Just my opinion.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 05:12 AM

Ah, I see.

Well, yes, that's a valid argument, BWM, though it doesn't change my view on politics.

I see them as all at it, in it for them. Take the cost-of-living crisis. If it had the same effect on them as it does the poor, you'd soon see something done about it it.

I have a very dim view of them - that THEY'VE caused - and it's up to them to prove I can trust them with my vote.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 04:44 AM

Farage is saying what they want to hear ON THE BBC EVERY DAY while Greens, with as many MPs and the LibDems with nearly 10 times as many get very little air time. Populism is the current scourge of politics and the excuse that "they are all the same" is lame and lazy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 04:41 AM

I don’t think anyone is ‘blaming’ the BBC for Deform’s apparent popularity, Fred. What is being queried is the completely disproportionate amount of exposure they are getting on the BBC, particularly Farage. They have the same number of MPs as the Greens, yet how often do you see anyone from the Greens on BBC. Likewise the Lib-Dems, who have fifteen times the number of Deform MPs, yet get nowhere near the BBC airtime that Deform gets.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 24 Sep 25 - 03:36 AM

I don't often post here, but I feel you guys are knocking on the wrong door when you blame Reform's popularity on the BBC.

Is it that, or is it that the voters who want illegal immigration stopped tried the Tories who failed to tackle it, tried Labour which led to record levels and Farage is saying what they want to hear?

I don't know. I've long given up on politics. Try Labour, mess up try Tories and it's like the Ariston TV ad if you remember that. All you get is different faces pushing the same old hand-cart which is long overdue a major service :)

-F