BS: Republican response to Health Reform

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 08:05 PM

Another bogus opinion poll...

(((yawn)))

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: pdq
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 08:02 PM

"From the Washington Examiner's Mark Tapscott we learn that CNN commissioned Opinion Research to conduct a survey on ObamaCare over the weekend during the run-up to the Democrats pushing the bill through the U.S. House of Representatives. The results of the poll are out, and they plainly demonstrate that the votes of 219 House Democrats are a slap in the faces of a clear majority of Americans:

Here are the major initial points of interest in the CNN/OR results:

      · 59% oppose the Democrats' health care bill, while only 39% favor it.

    · 70% say the federal budget deficit will go up under the Democrats' health care bill; only 12% believe it will go down.

    · 56% say the bill creates "too much government involvement in the nation's health care system," 28% say about the right amount, while 16% say not enough.

      · 62% say they'll pay more for medical care under the Democrats' health care bill.

      · 47% say they and their families will be worse off under the Democrats' health care bill; 33% say things will be about the same, and only 19% think they'll be better off.

      · 45% say seniors on Medicare will be worse off; 34% say things will be about the same, and only 20% think they'll be better off.

The Democrats' latest argument is that the more the American public learns about ObamaCare, the more they will come to like it. The results of this poll argue otherwise. American already know quite a lot about ObamaCare, and three of every five of them don't like it at all."

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:46 PM

The real gorilla in the room isn't Ron Paul as much as it is Rupert Murdock's Tea Party... Yes, Rupert Murdock!!! The Tea Party would not be without the massive organizing and PR from FOX un-news...

The Republican Party is now very much under the Ruperts Puppet's control and, frankly, scared to death of these people... Did ya see the look on McCain's face on the news last night when the Queen Rupert Puppet, Ms. Sarah, mentioned the Tea Party??? I mean, you could tell he was trying very hard not to show his emotions here but, hey, it has become very hard to be an elected Republican leader... Well, leader, doesn't even matter any more 'cause the real leadership of the Republican Party is a commitee of Rupert's boys (and girl) and Rush Limbaugh... I reckon if Rupert could get Rush under contract then he'd have the entire Republican Party in his pocket...

So when we look at the Tea Party folks and the Repubs in Congress lets keep in mind just who is pulling the strings...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:19 PM

The significant gorilla in the room was Ron Paul. The Libertarian approach eschews health care through government aid.

Paul got a big response at the GOP convention.

There is a tendency in Libertarian thought to disregard the plight of poor people who are often blamed for their circumstances. "Why should I pay your care through my taxes?"

Tax rhymes with ax.   Revenue is an obligation of citizenship.

Why is it that many Libertarians have no problem with the military industrial complex which
own a good piece of American government?

Free enterprise is not free.

Let the Libertarians pay for their own roads, postal service and the armed services. See how they like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:07 PM

>>What kind of threats did they get?

I wrote the Congressman from this district, NC 7th and told him that the next time I campaigned for a Democrat I would campaign against him. It wasn't so much a threat as a promise.

I also suggested that he out to become a Republican and be done with it so that we can work to elect an actual Democrat. So far, he has not done that.

Here is the weasel's website.
http://www.house.gov/mcintyre/

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 03:48 PM

There would not have been a battle if it were not for outdated rules that allow one Senator out of a hundred to put holds on legislation.

As to the "Blue Cross" Democrats, I think they are fair game as well. Not because they have a different view, but because they would not invoke cloture to allow a simple up or down vote. That is anti democratic.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 03:36 PM

Hey Poppa Amos. How about those Democrats the voted against the bill?

How many were there?

What were their names?

Are they bad like the Republicans that voted against the bill?

What kind of threats did they get?

Why was there such a battle and why was it all blamed on Republicans when the Democrats have a clear majority in Congress?

Such a wonderful, too good to be true bill should have sailed through.

Seems like the battle was within the Democratic party to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: beeliner
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:54 PM

I'd like to see a constitutional ammendment that limits president to one (1) six (6) year term... .

An even better idea, once you get used to it, would be to have three presidents in overlapping six-year-terms, with a new president chosen every two years.

Each president would serve two years as Junior President, followed by two years as Executive President, then two more years as Senior President.

Each of the three offices would have its own set of responsibilities, with some overlap.

But this is admittedly off the theme of the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:41 PM

""eleuntilction""........?

This is not a snide dig MGoH, but an honest, if tongue in cheek, suggestion that this typo might warrant inclusion tn the Guiness Book of World Records, containing a whole extra five letter word.

LOL
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: GUEST,Kiwi Guest
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:36 PM

This is great news, however.
In some countries in this world, they provide free national health care for all. Why can't this also be done in the United States?
As a nation over the last four decades or so. They have spent many billions$ , covertly and overtly murdering millions of men women and children in other countries for trumpt up reasons. The real reasons being strategic, mineral and energy control for individual companies.
Had they spent this money looking after their own people, then the States would be a happier and safer place to live in today.
It is not the ordinary person in the States who is to blame. They have the same dreams as everybody else in this world. It is the result of a group of so called Christian people who have no moral code that I can recognise, taking total power in the name of capitalism. Using this power totally selfishly, internally and worldwide.
Lets hope that these reforms will herald the beginning of a new phase in United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:32 PM

""If you had a more keen sense of humor, you would not be a Republican.""

I don't know though JtS, I think a sense of humour would be imperative in one who thought GeeDub would be a good man to put in charge of the World's largest nuclear arsenal.

"Having a laugh" is a mild description.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:24 PM

Oops... POLLS

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:23 PM

Trem limits???

I'd like to see a constitutional ammendment that limits president to one (1) six (6) year term... That would go along way toward presidents doinh what they feel in thei hearts is the right thing for the country rather than spending their first terms setting up the comapaign for the nest one and then being stuck in a mindset/mold that is hard to break in the 2nd term...

Now back to out regularially scheduled program...

Sorry for the drift...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 02:59 PM

When Bush was President He said, "I don't pay attention to the poles." and Republicans cheered him. This crop of Republicans, many of whom cheered Bush are saying that Obama should govern by the results of the poles.

How much credibility do they have?

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 02:58 PM

"...Devin Nunes, a Republican of California, warns that by passing health reform, Democrats "will finally lay the cornerstone of their socialist utopia on the backs of the American people." Gosh, that sounds uncomfortable. And it's been a hoot watching Mitt Romney squirm as he tries to distance himself from a plan that, as he knows full well, is nearly identical to the reform he himself pushed through as governor of Massachusetts. His best shot was declaring that enacting reform was an "unconscionable abuse of power," a "historic usurpation of the legislative process" — presumably because the legislative process isn't supposed to include things like "votes" in which the majority prevails.

A side observation: one Republican talking point has been that Democrats had no right to pass a bill facing overwhelming public disapproval. As it happens, the Constitution says nothing about opinion polls trumping the right and duty of elected officials to make decisions based on what they perceive as the merits. But in any case, the message from the polls is much more ambiguous than opponents of reform claim: While many Americans disapprove of Obamacare, a significant number do so because they feel that it doesn't go far enough. And a Gallup poll taken after health reform's enactment showed the public, by a modest but significant margin, seeming pleased that it passed.

But back to the main theme. What has been really striking has been the eliminationist rhetoric of the G.O.P., coming not from some radical fringe but from the party's leaders. John Boehner, the House minority leader, declared that the passage of health reform was "Armageddon." The Republican National Committee put out a fund-raising appeal that included a picture of Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, surrounded by flames, while the committee's chairman declared that it was time to put Ms. Pelosi on "the firing line." And Sarah Palin put out a map literally putting Democratic lawmakers in the cross hairs of a rifle sight.

All of this goes far beyond politics as usual. Democrats had a lot of harsh things to say about former President George W. Bush — but you'll search in vain for anything comparably menacing, anything that even hinted at an appeal to violence, from members of Congress, let alone senior party officials.

No, to find anything like what we're seeing now you have to go back to the last time a Democrat was president. Like President Obama, Bill Clinton faced a G.O.P. that denied his legitimacy — Dick Armey, the second-ranking House Republican (and now a Tea Party leader) referred to him as "your president." Threats were common: President Clinton, declared Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina, "better watch out if he comes down here. He'd better have a bodyguard." (Helms later expressed regrets over the remark — but only after a media firestorm.) And once they controlled Congress, Republicans tried to govern as if they held the White House, too, eventually shutting down the federal government in an attempt to bully Mr. Clinton into submission.

Mr. Obama seems to have sincerely believed that he would face a different reception. And he made a real try at bipartisanship, nearly losing his chance at health reform by frittering away months in a vain attempt to get a few Republicans on board. At this point, however, it's clear that any Democratic president will face total opposition from a Republican Party that is completely dominated by right-wing extremists.

For today's G.O.P. is, fully and finally, the party of Ronald Reagan — not Reagan the pragmatic politician, who could and did strike deals with Democrats, but Reagan the antigovernment fanatic, who warned that Medicare would destroy American freedom. It's a party that sees modest efforts to improve Americans' economic and health security not merely as unwise, but as monstrous. It's a party in which paranoid fantasies about the other side — Obama is a socialist, Democrats have totalitarian ambitions — are mainstream. And, as a result, it's a party that fundamentally doesn't accept anyone else's right to govern. ..."

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:18 AM

There was a time that both of my Senators, John Glenn and Howard Metzenbaum, had the highest progressive rating in the Senate and got elected for term after term. I wouldn't have traded them in for anyone. What possible purpose would term limits serve. Presidential term limits did not exist until Republicans pushed them through in reaction to FDR being elected 4 times. It was also Republicans who wanted to get rid of them so we could have 4 more years of Reagan. Now if you want to talk about campaign finance reform we might be on to something.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 09:44 AM

Is pdq's point that opinion polls ought to overrule elections?

No, PeeDee's point is that HE should be able to overrule elections.

Or at least the BuShites should be, as they did in the 2000 presidential election.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 09:03 AM

There is an alternative. That is the bill that was passed by a majority of both Houses of Congress. It contains some of what the president wanted and some things he did not.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 01:20 AM

Amos:

Is health care reform a binary event?

Are there no alternatives to Obama's health care plan?

You are so into these one way or the other issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:54 PM

Is pdq's point that opinion polls ought to overrule elections?

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:46 PM

Yeah, Carol... I saw it last night on MSNBC... Very well done...

As for polls??? They are a joke... The insurance and drug lobbies have put out an unprecedented amount of media-buy PR and, unfortunately, alot of it has stuck... But the underlying subliminal message in this PR avalanche is that the Dems did this in the dark of night and no one knows what is in the bill... Well, all I gotta say is that if you don't understand what is in this bill yer either brain dead or just landed from another planet...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:43 PM

That polling took place on 3/19-3/21. This from the CNN article (I knew I saw that someplace!): Roughly one in five of respondents who said they opposed the bill did so because it was not liberal enough, and those people are unlikely to vote Republican. Take them out of the picture and opposition to the bill because it is too liberal is 43 percent.

More recent surveys have a very different result.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: beeliner
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:33 PM

The bill was passed Sunday night, the CNN poll released Monday morning, so it's reasonable to assume that the actual polling took place first.

The most current polls I've seen agree with Carol's figures, and it wouldn't surprise me if the approval figure went over 50% by the weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: pdq
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:18 PM

I'm sure that the "usual suspects" will say that a CNN poll doesn't count either...

CNN Poll: 59% of Americans Now in Opposition to Obama's Health Care Plan

Posted by James Richardson       Monday, 22 MAR 2010

A majority of Americans hold a generally negative view of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, according to a new CNN poll which found 59 percent of respondents now in opposition to the plan.

After a dozen pro-life Democrats hold-outs lead by Michigan Rep. Bart Stupak caved Sunday to increasing pressure from the White House, the House adopted on a strictly party-line vote the Senate's bill, which now awaits the President's signature.

Among the most salient of Republican talking points on health care, the poll showed, were the issues of cost and quality, which Congressional Republicans had said the bill fundamentally failed to address.

62 percent believed the new reforms would result in a spike in personal medical expenses, while only 21 percent said they would remain the same. In September of last year, a similar poll found 47 percent believed the President's plan would increase medical costs; 35 percent said costs would remain the same.

Democrats hemorrhaged support on the issue of quality, too. The number of those who said their families would be better off dropped nominally, while a significant margin shifted their opinion from September that their families would be "about the same" to "worse off." 47 percent held the view their families would fare worse if the legislation was implemented; 19 percent responded they would be better off; and 33 percent said they would be about the same.

Most damaging–insomuch as anything apart from legal challenges can derail the near-certain implementation of ObamaCare–is that respondents universally held the opinion that the President's reforms will increase federal deficits. 70 percent said the bill will result in higher deficits; 17 percent said it was deficit neutral; and only 12 percent said it would reduce the nation's deficit.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:46 PM

When Americans voted in the last eleuntilction, they voted a mandate for health reform. That stands until and unless in some future election they vote to repeal it. Fluctuations in opinion polls in the meantime, such as the one pdq quotes, don't have any significance, except when it comes to making prophecies about future election outcomes.

In fact, no country which has introduced universal affordable health care has ever voted to abolish it. People can be stupid at times, but not that stupid, it seems. Maybe the USA will be the exception, and demonstrate that, in one corner of the planet, they can be. Only in America, as they say...

But I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:22 PM

Ok, beeliner.

I guess it would be accurate to say that there are more people who like it than there are who don't like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:20 PM

Has anyone actually watched the video? It's very funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:11 PM

No, Doug, YOU are an insult and embarrassment to what the Republican party once was and stood for but which has now evolved into a bunch of mindless obstructionist BuShite assholes- as clearl;y demonstrated by their embrace & support of Limbaugh & the other hate-mongering, violence inciting on-air bloviators.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: beeliner
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:10 PM

CarolC: "As of right now, a majority of people in the US like the new health care reform law."

49% in favor, with 40-41% opposed, is a plurality, not a majority.

Close though.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:08 PM

Btw, for the record, the "Nullifier Party" was founded by John CXalhoun in South Caroline in the late 1820s, was short lived and out by 1840... Their belief is that the states had more power than the federal government... This, in essence, is the Republican response... The Repubs, at least in Virgina, think that the state can pass laws whch override federal law...

BTW, this was the argument that led to the Civil War...

As for Boehner's response to the violence??? Paltry, at best...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:06 PM

16 jackasses who say it is unconstitutional, does not make it unconstitutional. As I have said before, they shouldn't be allowed to say this publicly and practice law.

It is unethical and it is misrepresentation. Unless they are stupid enough to think that it is unconstitutional, then they are simply unqualified.

If the fed can require you to pay taxes, then they can give you the choice to either
a. Buy Health Insurance or
b. Pay taxes.

Last I heard, it was constitutional to require taxes be paid.

It may be worthwhile to note that they do not plan to put forward a single piece of case law to back up their claim.

They are just trying to stir up ignorant people that are too lazy to find information that isn't spoon-fed to them by liars and rabble rousers.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:05 PM

Q, the trend has been that the more people learn about the new law and the benefits it offers for them personally, the more they like it. If the trend continues as it has been going, the Democrats could look pretty good in the fall.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:56 PM

"The thread title, I believe, is an insult to my Party and the thread should be re-titled. No one has proved yet that the crimes were committed by Republicans."

Doug,

The thread title refers to Boehner's reaction to the Bill, being the leader of the House Republican's, I believe that he is more qualified to voice the Republican reaction than you.

......

On the other hand,
If you have a more keen sense of humor, you would see that the thread title was at least partly in jest.

On the other hand,

If you had a more keen sense of humor, you would not be a Republican.

.......

Please note that the lines between the dots were said in jest.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:46 PM

By the way, the title of this thread was in reference to something that John Boehner said about the health care reform bill (now law - watch the video), and is a perfectly legitimate title for this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:45 PM

What will the polls show after the dust settles? Polls at this time are meaningless. What will they be when the next congressional election rolls around? Will opposition grow, or fade away?
Several states are planning constitutional arguments; what effect will they have?
There are a rocky few years ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:43 PM

The Republican leadership has been encouraging and inciting people to use violence to overthrow the democratic election ever since Obama was elected, and they were encouraging and inciting violence during the run-up to the election. Their condemnation of such tactics (yesterday only) is hardly enough to undue the damage they've done by encouraging and inciting that kind of behavior over the last few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: DougR
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:40 PM

The Republican leadership has reputiated the few hecklers that went over the line and it is dis-ingenuious to try to hang this issue around the necks of Republicans. One Republican reported today that someone fired a shot through his office door or window so the anger is not confined to Republicans. Some liberals are pissed because they feel the Bill is not liberal enough.

The thread title, I believe, is an insult to my Party and the thread should be re-titled. No one has proved yet that the crimes were committed by Republicans.

Mick states, in his post of 25 March at 12:16 PM, "Every legal scholar has indicated that they have no chance of prevailing." (the state AG cases against the health care Bill).

That's a pretty broad statement I think. That takes in a lot of scholars in the United States. I, myself, have heard legal scholars on TV declare that the AGs may have a pretty strong case. I guess we will just have to wait and see. If Mick is right, I would think that it won't take long for there to be a decision made, not if it's a slam dunk as he suggests.

Since our president is, himself, a Constitutional scholar, it would be a bit embarresing, I suppose, if he were to have signed a Bill that he knew was unconstitutional. Right?

DougR

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:30 PM

Funny thing about the new 'n improved Reoub strategy is that it takes US back to arguments that were used by Southern states some 180 years ago about states rights... If you listen to folks like Virginia's Attorney General, Cuncinilli he would have you believe that states have the rights to ignore any federal law that they want to???

Ummmmmmm, not to get too specfic here but isn't that what the Civil War was fought over???

This is what I was talkin' about on another thread... The Supremes are going to find themselves ina major pickle here... That say, on one hand, that states cannot have their own gun control laws or limit corporations form unlimited spending on campaigns becuase federal law trumps state law... Now you have all these states with Repub governors lining up to make arguments that werde part of the 1830s... That's right... The 1830s!!!

Oughtta be interesting...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:24 PM

One poll I saw, and I have no real interest in looking for it, said that some 30% of those who don't like the health care bill dislike it because it doesn't go far enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:24 PM

Maybe I should have used big letters in my last post. Here goes...

As of right now, a majority of people in the US like the new health care reform law.


"WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.

By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

The largest single group, 48%, calls the legislation "a good first step" that needs to be followed by more action. And 4% say the bill itself makes the most important changes needed in the nation's health care system."

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:17 PM

As of right now, a majority of people in the US like the new health care reform law.


"WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.

By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

The largest single group, 48%, calls the legislation "a good first step" that needs to be followed by more action. And 4% say the bill itself makes the most important changes needed in the nation's health care system."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: pdq
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:36 PM

My post from 03:39 PM was from the most respected polling organization in the country, Rasmussen Reports.

It is dated 21 MAR 2010, the day the House voted to approve ObamaCare.

If people don't like what Rasmussen found, it ain't my fault. Not Rasmussen's fault, either.

He tracks 10 concerns that the US people have and health are re-do was only fifth.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:22 PM

I was at a meeting last night where a wannabe governor introduced himself. He is a Democrat, running against Sean Parnell who became Alaska's governor when Sarah Palin resigned.

I talked at some length with a man who used to be a gung ho Republican. In the '80s he was an officer in the US military when it suddenly occurred to him that the message of 'Better Dead than Red' was ludicrous. He said last night that that's when he began to learn to think.

He is no longer a Republican. Although we agreed that in the *old* Republican party it was legitimate to vote for the occasional Republican politician, that is true no longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:15 PM

Sorry, Bill. I thought it was evident. Here is the post I was referring to.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: SINSULL - PM
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:42 PM

Then why have a term limit on the presidency? Vote him out if he is useless.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:06 PM

"I agree, Sinsull. I don't think that is a good idea either.

Who are you agreeing with about what, Mick? She said she might like 'term limits'...I disagreed...then she suggested what is called in other countries "a vote of confidence" where someone can be removed anytime...although this usually applies to just 'leaders'.

In our current system, neither would work very well....and would no doubt require constitutional amendments.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: beeliner
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:59 PM

The projected cost of the plan is said to be one TRILLION dollars, more or less, over ten years, as if that were an horrific amount.

One TRILLION dollars over ten years is, as I figure it, somewhere between 25 and 30 dollars per month per American.

I pay EIGHT TO TEN TIMES THAT right now just for my Medicare part B and Medigap supplement. I shudder to think how much someone without Medicare or employer benefits has to pay for similar coverage.

Am I missing something here?

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:58 PM

I agree, Sinsull. I don't think that is a good idea either.

pdq, you are emblematic of the old saw, "figures don't lie, but liars figure". You know full well it depends on how the question is asked. For example, if asked whether the individual components, such as pre existing conditions, kids on their parents plan until 26, cost containment, then the numbers skew way in favor. The fact is that those numbers you quote are a direct reflection of the program of disinformation that was instituted by big money folks. Further, your numbers are prior to the vote. Since the vote there is a shift occurring. I would suggest that the real referendum will come in the next election. See you then.......

In the meantime we will be working on jobs, and on sensible restraints on the financial services industry. I can't wait to see how your Republican bosses try to paint that. But in the words of the great Christy Moore, at The Pointe in Dublin, "tough shit, Paddy".

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:58 PM

PDQ:

The part that is being conveniently left out of that hollow position is the brainwashing campaign of false data, fear-mongering and rabblerousing rhetoric that has been endlessly spewed out by the right-end media buys all over the country. Anyon can rig up a poll when they have the population to be polled thoroughly confuzzled and terrorized by painting false alarms and catastrophic scenarios that are completely off the beam. Stirring up fear and hate is a specialty of the right end. They just seem to think that way. Dunno why. But echoing, copying, acting out, amplifying, and cross-seeding all that fear and false mayhem information is a really STUPID WAY TO BE A RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN.

Oh, sorry....damn capslock.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:44 PM

Once again: South Carolina has given the Unites States two things: Lindsey Graham and the Civil War. I'm not sure which is worse.

The man is a grandstanding ignorant disgrace.

NB:"Attorney General Henry McMaster, who is currently running for governor..." gee, wonder what his agenda is in filig these frivolous suits? see Big Mick, above.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:42 PM

Then why have a term limit on the presidency? Vote him out if he is useless.