BS: Taxation without representation

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 02:35 PM

The Middle Classes were the result of the enterprise of the entrepreneurs of the day. Without these visionaries, large enterprises would not have evolved to hire on a large scale, and labor never would have gained the unity and where-with-all with which to form unions and voice their demands.

Mass education, as John MacKenzie posts, also made a large contribution, as the builders found that a workforce that could read and write was necessary for more complex tasks and growth of their businesses.

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 01:59 PM

I learned it in both grade and high school.

It's probably considered to complicated for young minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 12:44 PM

There are all to many folks who display a criminal ignorance of Labor History and the labor movement.

Of course, they don't teach it any longer in U.S. schools- I wonder why??

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 10:07 AM

Surely state education gave us the thing you credit the unions with Kendall?
Sorry I won't use the 'c' word in that context.

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: kendall
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 09:21 AM

Sorry Louis but 100 years ago there was no middle class. The middle class was created by labor unions.

Labor unions, the folks who gave you: weekends, minimum wage, the 40 hour week, safer working conditions and health care.

Who would want to go back to the days when a man worked his ass off for a dollar a day and if he got sick or disabled he was quickly replaced while he was being thrown on the dump?

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 09:13 AM

The authorities are watching this thread. Too many subversive posts.
Beware

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: bubblyrat
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 08:38 AM

Social Legislation has ruined the UK too.Nowadays,if a girl doesn't get on with mum & boyfriend ( not many "Dads" left ,or "families " either,for that matter),then she just gets pregnant,goes to the local Town Hall and gets herself a nice flat or apartment (jumping the queue ahead of others on the waiting list,of course).Then the State falls over itself catering for the needs of mother( who has NO intention of getting married,as she would lose out financially)and her illegitimate (but nobody in England gives a shit any more) child/children.The father,if indeed he is known,has little or no legal standing,and would probably be denied access to the child,even if he genuinely wanted it,as all men in UK now are deemed to be irresponsible,untrustworthy,sexually-deviant child-beating perverts.Well done, all feminists everywhere !!---you have inadvertantly created a Male Utopia ,a "Bonk 'em and Leave 'em" culture which suits them ( OK--US !!) just fine ! At least,Sex in UK isn't actually taxed yet, but I am sure they'll find a way !!

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 08:48 AM

Yeah, Liz... It just snowed and is cold so my buddy's hours (he works as a common laborer) will be cut and so he'll more than likely be doing his annual 90 days in the hole pretty soon... Endless cycle...

Meanwhile, you can bet thatn his ex won't be seeing any child support for the next 3 months...

Been that way forever... Stared when ADC (Aid to Dependent Children) was started that forced fathers out of tht house... I remember when I was a social worker being trained to look for signs of men in the house when we made "field visits" in the homes...

And we wonder what happened to the family???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:31 AM

A little jail time? Free food, heat, light and board, access to a library and gym? For someone in a low paid job whose wages are probably being garnered anyway, sounds like a fine way to spend the winter.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 10:41 PM

Not what Bobert described- a man who would pay if he could get a job that paid the scratch. He goes to jail just the same in many jurisdictions. Some judges or commissions make allowances but many don't.

"A little jail time will do him good. He will look harder for a better job."

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 10:33 PM

Men who fail to make full payment of alimony or child support....may not be a special separate building called a "debtors' prison", but the concept is the same.

No, what you're describing is a welchers prison, and it ain't the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 09:56 PM

Farms have decreased because an individual can make a better living elsewhere, with less effort, and methods have changed.

Improper use of land has destroyed uncounted millions of acres, now salinated, deserty, eroded, mesquite and weed-covered, and useless to man or beast. Concentration of holdings offers some hope that the economic means may be found for attempts at restoration. Unneeded land can be returned to the government.

The number of farms has decreased 63% since 1900 and farm size has risen 67%.

1900- 41% of workforce employed in agriculture
1930- 21.5% of workforce employed in agriculture, AG share of GDP 7.7%
1945- 16% of labor force employed in agriculture
1970- 4% "    "    "      "
2002- 2%   "   "    ". Ag share of GDP 0.07%

Economic Research Service, USDA
http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib3/eib3.htm#changes

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:44 PM

As for deadbeat dads???

A vast majority get away with it... Just move far enough away and the Bureau of Support Enforcement won't bother trying to find you...

Only the ones who stay in touch with (or close to) their kids get jailed, which is absolutely stupid... Hows a guy going to catch up on his child support payment if he is in jail...

I gotta a good friend... Fine bluesman... Not all that emplyable but he does the best he can... But with no real skills, other than playing blues which doesn't pay too well, he goes to jail once a year for 90 days... Ain't helping his kids or his ex at all...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:39 PM

5,000,000 family farms have disappeared since the 1930's...

The US is losing 330 family farms every week...

(Source; Farm Aid)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:34 PM

Good point, pdq. As to poor farms, my mother in her youth worked at one in Wisconsin.

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:25 PM

In June, 2007, the U. S. Dept. Agriculture had 105780 employees
(U. S. Gov't. figures).

In 2009, there were 2.2 million farms and ranches.
This figure from Purdue University, article Feb. 5, 2009.
"Trend broken or at least leveled; number of U. S. farms increases,"
Greg Preston, director of U. S. Dept. Agriculture National Ag Statistics office.
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2009a/090205PrestonAgcensus.html

The posting of fallaceous statistics is a shameful perversion of the free speech allowed at this website; its only purpose is to mislead.

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: pdq
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:19 PM

"...{100 years ago}...We did however have 'poor farms' and were not long past debtors' prisons."

Men who fail to make full payment of alimony or child support are commonly sentanced to jail time. There may not be a special separate building called a "debtors' prison", but the concept is the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:15 PM

Mind you, I don't see many of us getting the represention we deserve or were intitled to by our forefathers. Corporate America has far more say & pull in this country with what happens & in making policy & they probably pay far less than the citizenry in taxes than the citizens do.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:14 PM

Now back to taxation without representation...

That has been the District of Columbia for the last 200 or so years...

(But, Boberdz... Congress has just passed legislation that will give The District of Columbia voting rights in the House...)

Well, so Congress has, along with giving Utah another House seat... Problem is that Utah gets their seat with no strings attached but D.C. gets an ammendment that forbides them from passing any kind of gun control legislation???

Like what the hell is that all about??? I mean, Congress should have put an ammendment on Utah's extra seat in the House as well... Like, ahhhhh, making it illegal for Utahians to have carnal knowledge of farm animals... lol... I heard that them Utah farmers can get real lonely...

Nevermind...

B~

p.s. BTW, if D.C. can have it's representative vote in the house then how about throwing in a couple Senators, too???

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:08 PM

"I wish more of them paid for services, but they also keep a hell of a lot of people employed"

They sure do

When the department of Agriculture was in it's early stages it had 6000 employees that covered 600,000 farms, now it has 600,000 employees that cover 6000 farms with a good percentage of those being subsidized. I don't mind supporting farms or farm aid & I don't think they're any better or worst off than the rest of the working stiffs except that they may be getting milked as much as the rest of us.
I'll be happy when the rich start to pay their fair share for the 1st time in living memory.

I see the farms in very much the same light as the auto industry & I keep wondering when they'll start to run out of gas.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:06 PM

Fir$t of all, there aren't any farmer$ left to $peak of... They've all been bought out by agri-busine$$ corporation$ that hire immigrant labor and...

...collect billion$ and billion$ of my tax dollar$ becau$e they contribute lot$ of $$$ to Congre$$ who in turn take$ my hard earned tax dollar$ and just give$ it to them...

And that i$ ju$t for $tarter$...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:54 PM

So how does the 'farmer's taxes' differ from those of anybody else? And his tax on land is a lot lower than tax on a city lot (I have had both).

I wish more of them paid for services, but they also keep a hell of a lot of people employed.

Subject: RE: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:34 PM

A farmer quit the farm and went to selling hammers.

He bought hammers by the boxcar load for $1.00 a piece sold them for 95 cents each..

A friend objected, "You can't make any money that way."

"Beats farming," the man said, simply.

By the way, I would dispute that 100 years ago our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We did however have 'poor farms' and were not long past debtors' prisons.

Subject: BS: Taxation without representation
From: Louie Roy
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 07:22 PM

This is what the farmer can look forward too for the next 4 years (TAXES)
Tax his land tax his bed tax his table at which he's fed
Tax his tractor tax his mule teach him taxes are the rule
Tax his work tax his pay he works for peanuts anyway
Tax his cow tax his goat tax his pants tax his coat
Tax his ties tax his shirt tax his work tax his dirt
Tax his tobacco tax his drink tax him if he tries to think
Tax his cigars tax his beer if he cries tax his tears
Tax his car tax his gas find other ways to tax his ass
Tax all he has then let him know that you won't be done till he's out of dough
When he screams and hollers then tax him some more tax him until he's good and sore
Tax his coffin tax his grave tax the sod in which he's laid
Put these words upon his tomb taxes drove me to my doom
When he's gone do not relax it's time to apply the inheritance tax
Accounts receivable tax building permit tax CDL license tax
Cigarette tax corporate income tax dog license tax excise tax
Federal income tax Federal unemployment tax (FUTA)
Fishing license tax food license tax fuel permit tax
Gasoline tax (44.75 cents per gallon)gross receipts tax
Hunting license tax Inheritance tax inventory tax
IRS interest charges IRS penalties (TAX ON TOP OF Tax)
Liquor tax luxury tax marriage license tax medicare tax
Personal property tax property tax real estate tax
Service charge tax social security tax road usage tax
Sale tax recreational vehicle tax school tax state income tax
State unemployment tax (SUTA)telephone federal excise tax
Telephone one federal universal service fee tax.( Last but not least the intercourse tax that if you don't pay they'll throw you in jail) there are a lot more taxes that I left out but it ain't funny.
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had no national debt had the largest middle class in the world and mom stayed home and raised the kids. What the hell happened can you spell politicians and I still have to push one for English