BS: Any experts on UK house drains?

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 11:15 AM

Well, we have functioning drains! They have informed us of another issue that they could not resolve though. Where they dug down was right next to the back gate. They cleared that but found an obstruction beyound the gate, in the 'backing', but still part of the run to the main sewer. The suspicion is that this blockage is causing the drains on our property to block.

It is now a bit of a wooley area beacuse the obstruction is on the drain from our house but not actualy on our property so they could not dig it up. They drain sub-contracor (Dynorod is a franchise apparently) will send a report to the insurance company to see if they will pay for excavations beyond out gate. Because maintenance of the alleyway is down to the council they will have to make good after and it all gets lost in the mire (pun intended) of council/utility company/insurace discussions which are, for the moment, beyond my ken!

At least we have a functional drainage system while they decide who does what with whom.

Thanks for the advice and support all.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Alan Day
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 08:16 AM

Most blocked drains are caused by fat build up. It is unbelievable how small quantities in washing up can build up to a solid white mass.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 06:12 AM

Latest (I could have kept a blog realy!). He couldn't get access to the main sewer but checked if the neighbours had problems and seeing as they didn't he has assumed it is before the swere and excavated down to the drain. Just waiting for the sludge gulper to drain the hole so he can access the drain itself. Very neat job of the hole and he has managed to salvage most of the quarry tiles so we can relay them.

There was some brickwork down there so it could have possibly been an inspection chamber. No tree root damage he can see but we will still get rid of the laburnum and caster oil trees anyway. Looks like we will have functional drainage before the day is out and he will backfill the hole with earth - I will decide whether to re-lay concrete and tiles when it has settled or whether to try and re-instate a manhole if possible.

No complaints about the work done so far apart from they should realy have done the survey when they first spotted it years ago. He did mention that it looks like nappy liners could have contributed to the problem. So much for flushable - Be warned!

Watch this space...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:15 AM

I do indeed Nigel. Must be the Jeyes fluid fumes getting to me :-)

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:07 AM

I wait with baited breath.
The cat ate some cheese & waited for the mouse with baited breath!

I think you meant 'bated breath'

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:06 AM

Now, here's an interesting development...

A new man has been this morning and checked outside our property, in the 'backing' beyond the back gate, before starting to dig and guess what - The grids out there are backing up! So it could be the main sewer that has a problem after all. Not sure why the first man did not see that but I guess the trace only showed where the blockage was back too rather than where it started.

He is now trying to access the manhole lower down to see if there is an issue there. If so I would assume that the Utility company needs to fix it. Just under 2 years ago, in the bad floods of 2008, the whole system did flood so it is possible that there is a faultthere. still keeping my fingers crossed that excavation may not be required although we have decided to 're-model' the back yard for reasons detailed earlier anyway.

Wish him, and us, luck.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 03:44 AM

Set for the new round of calls to Dynorod/British Gas...

One bit of confusion yesterday when the man came to do the survey. The first bloke, on Tuesday, said it would probably involve claiming from our insurance. The second, yesterday, said it will all be covered by the agreement with British Gas. As they cover drain work up to £1000 I am inclined to believe the second but maybe I am underestimating the cost.

I wait with baited breath. And held nose...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 03:08 AM

I have had to have work done on foul drains more than once - and in one case the drain turned out to be an undocumented council sewer.

If no other properties connect upstream of your property (or on your property) there are few legal problems, and you won't have to have the council install your new inspection chamber (which is very expensive) but it does sound as if the only answer is going to be a big big hole with rodding access at the bottom, and a gas-tight cover on the top.   

In my worst problem the drain turned out to be over 6 feet below the surface so it was a BIG hole!

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Alan Day
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 06:07 PM

It is hard to sort out peoples problems from a distance , it sounds as if you have a collapsed sewer pipe. The surface water can easily be piped straight into the viewing inspection cover where Dynarod put their rods or alternatively straight onto the garden where it will do no harm.The sewerage side of the problem is more difficult ,is there a drain cover that gives you access to the mains sewer further down the line? If so a daily trip with a bucket may sort it short term until the old pipe is dug up and replaced.
There has not been a party ever that has been held in my house where the drains have not blocked up. Whether it is the freedom of using free toilet rolls in abundance, or other reasons I do not know. The drain rods are in the garage and it seems to be my main job as host to unblock the drains.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Smokey.
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 06:01 PM

Ho, I knows that alright :-)

It's been far too long since I graced your country with my dubious presence.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 05:49 PM

Did ye no' ken Smokey, whusky's the finest disinfectant!

Kills everythin' except the wee green crawlin' beasties.....oh no here they come again!

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Smokey.
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 05:25 PM

Ah.. you still have proper old-fashioned pubs up there then Ake? Where a chap can hum without fear of ostracism..

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 05:16 PM

Pressure washers etc dont work for tree roots or cracked, broken pipes(the pipework will be salt glazed fireclay)

You've got to be prepared to get your hands dirty.....fairly makes your nails grow!


Put ordinary rods down till you feel the obstruction, withdraw the rods without uncoupling them, lay them on approx line of drain and start digging, expose the pipe, cut a hole in the top of pipe with a disc cutter .....keep the rectangular piece that you cut out to seal the hole after removing the obstruction, build access manhole round the opening in top of pipe, set on access cover ...go to pub!

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Smokey.
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 04:25 PM

Anyone know how to go about getting and using one of those sludge-gulpers (my phrase - sorry, don't know the proper term!) that the council clear drains with?

What you need is a drummer, a length of rubber pipe and two bricks.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 03:58 PM

This edition of Scouting for Boys tells you how to build a Field Latrine.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 03:55 PM

Hiring a portaloo sounds like a reasonable solution to the immediate problem.   (Or dig a big hole in the garden and use buckets...)

............................

Incidentally, I saw a van the other day for a drains company with the not entirely encouraging name "Drainbusters". ("Sorry ma'am - but the name should have warned you what might happen!")

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 03:44 PM

Access point is a bit of a bone of contention - There just isn't one! If they need to put one in, where they need to excavate is a good choice. Having seen where he has marked the spot I suspect a tree root could be at fault - We only have a small yard but it was done quite like a mediteranian courtyard with lots of greenery and tiling! One of the trees (A laburnum I think) realy is quite tall and in a direct line with the marked spot - about 3 metres away. Probably a good idea to get rid of the laburnum and caster oil plants if we are to having the grandson more regularly. Nasty seeds from the laburnum and I believe the caster oil plant is used to make Ricin poison! Not a good idea for a one year old to be near them:-(

No word from the man at Dynorod yet.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 02:10 PM

When the drain is finally cleared make sure they leave an access point where the blockage took place.....these things have a habit of recurring.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 01:16 PM

after all dave its your own shit ,its better than anyone elses shit

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 01:14 PM

i regularly have to rod my sewage inspection chamber,as it has two 90 degree bends[they had no choice before there were rock breakers],just buy a set of rods chimney rods with an extra fitting and do it yourself.
if a septic tank is working properly it sahould not be necessary to empty it
.what you need to do is make sure your bath water etc goes in to a seperate soakaway[still i expect you know all this]

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: The Smiler
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 12:55 PM

That is tough shit DeG

Can I send you some moles from my garden?
I am sure you could stuff them down the pipe and they would bore through that lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 11:31 AM

I doubt you will do better than Dynorod. They may have their faults, but they do have the kit. A pump-out tanker is not going to be of help in removing the blockage, although it could pump out the flooded manhole/inspection chamber. This would be an expensive way of getting a day or two relief if it's a small chamber.

Having dealt with a couple of these at my son's house, I suspect the blockage is at a buried pipe junction, or possibly a broken pipe. In either case, if the blockage can't be jetted away, excavation is the only answer.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 11:17 AM

What about a drain rod:-)

No choice, I'm afraid, Richard - British Gas own them so they are what we gets for our money! I may look at a different contract for future reference though...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Arnie
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 11:17 AM

Would it help if you hired a portaloo for a few days? These are pretty popular with road workers, fruit & veg pickers etc. I used one regularly when working over in France and it was quite hygienic and not at all smelly. By the time it needs emptying, your drains should be fixed :)

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the other browser
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:59 AM

I wouldn't touch Dynorod with a bargepole.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:45 AM

Aye - Prior to 1937 (Amazing what you learn when you look into these things) It was perfectly acceptable to run surface drains into the sewer. As bubbly says it is illegal to do the reverse and, because of this, a washing machine or dishwasher now needs to be connected to the foul water or deep drain rather than the surface drain. Our drains - being both, are OK to run anything into but the downside is the situation we are now in.

The septic tank people may be an option - Thanks for that idea. I'm still waiting for the man from Dynorod to let us know how quick thay can do it. Fingers crossed. And legs seeing as we have to limit our visits the loo!

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:36 AM

It is now,as far as I know,illegal to put your sewerage ( Poo) drainage down the same drain-system as your "grey " ,viz. shower /bath/ washing up system.( But not necessarily "vice versa ")-- Here in Henley,we still have houses within the Thames Valley area which /who/ are not on mains drainage when it comes to poo-poos.So it is quite common to see a big blue tanker ,with the logo of an Elephant with its trunk down a manhole-cover,running around and sucking up (as it were) to their clients.Telephone no. available if required !!

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:31 AM

David, as they have found the problem you can probably look forward to a permanent solution. In the meantime you may have to grin and bear it, move out, or contact a sewage disposal company who empty septic tanks. They may be able to suck it up (ugh) and take it away. Don't know the cost but it's around £120 when we have our septic tank emptied. Nowadays you wouldn't be allowed to run surface water into the sewer (ar least that's the case in most areas) and this has to go into soakaways. Hope this is of some help.

Subject: RE: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:21 AM

Just another random thought - Anyone know how to go about getting and using one of those sludge-gulpers (my phrase - sorry, don't know the proper term!) that the council clear drains with?

Subject: BS: Any experts on UK house drains?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:08 AM

Of course there is! There are experts on everything on the Mudcat:-)

I think I probably know the answer to this so it is a bit of a combination of a cry for advice and a good moan.

Our house (built circa 1912) is connected to the foul water drains for all the drainage - The surface drains simply run into the sewage drain. Unfortunately it does block occasionaly and we get raw sewage (yes I know - yuck) backing up the surface drains. Dynorod, via a British Gas contract have always managed to clear it in the past as it has happened around 3 or 4 times. This time however they could not and have done a drain trace to determine where the blockage is. They have found it in the back yard and it will need excavating to get it sorted properly.

Cost is covered by a combination of the service contract and buildings insurance so that should not be an issue but it could well be a good few days before they can clear it. In the meanwhile we are, literaly, living with an open sewer outside the back door:-( Anyone any suggestions on how to get things moving - either within the drain itself or with the drain experts? Anyone any experience of moving out temporarily while the problem is resolved? We have lived with it for 3 days now and it does get progressively worse so I am worried for both our health and the drainage infrastructure if we continue to use the drains.

I think the answer will be to wait it out and, possibly, move out until it is done but does anyone have any useful advice? If nothing useful at least you can have a laugh at our expense:-)

Cheers

DeG