Traveling with Guitar

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Paul Jay
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 11:54 PM

I have to agree with Easy Rider. Our local music store throws away a lot of guitar boxes so they are easy to come by. The last time I shipped my guitar I did the same thing I do with my pots..I doubled boxed it. 1st box had Guitar wrapped with bubble wrap >don't use styrofoam peanuts as items will shift< THEN I put it in a slightly bigger box with the peanuts. this method has always worked for me, and it doesen't cost much.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Easy Rider
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 10:41 AM

There is a very good article, on packing a guitar for shipment, on Gruhn Guitars' Web site.

Gruhn Guitars

You'll have to explore the site to find the article.

Basically, besides detuning and packing the peghead, you must put some packing under the heel of the neck, to lift the neck off the neck rest inside the case. This lets the neck "float" and prevents damage from sudden jarring. Good violin cases are routinely made that way, as I wish guitar cases were. I even wrote to TKL about this type of construction, but I got no answer. Humph!

In addition, if you are checking the guitar, get a guitar shipping box, from your local guitar dealer, pack the case inside the box, with plenty of popcorn or crumpled newspaper, and mark it "FRAGILE", "THIS SIDE UP". That way it will survive baggage handling. Remember, the major dealers, like Gruhn, Elderly and Mandolin Bros., ship guitars, by UPS, this way all the time and never lose an instrument. I had a new guitar shipped to me, from Mandolin Bros., and it arrived in perfect condition.

EZR

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: MichaelM
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 05:11 PM

Always be pleasant and positive eg. Yes, this instrument does fit in the overhead bins. I've stunned a couple of flight attendants by easily popping my hard shell case into an overhead compartment during the pre-boarding for passengers with special needs. I heard one story about a musician who brought his guitar on board by peeking over the flight attendant's shoulder at the list of allowable instruments and telling her he was carrying a clarinet. She consulted her list and pronounced her blessing on his "clarinet". Along with other dangers of baggage handling Stan Rogers had one incident that made his blood boil. (This not the incident when Air Canada putting the forklift fork through his guitar, case and all.) He was waiting, futilely for his guitar to come through the rubber fingers onto the baggage pick-up. Seeing no guitar and no more luggage emerging he broke numerous federal regulations by climbing through the opening and retracing the path his instrument should have taken. Following the sound of music he came upon a baggage handler playing Stan's guitar sitting next to the travel case with the locks broken open. The guy looked up at him and said "Hey man, is this yours? Nice guitar." Stan's reply would cause the entire Internet o be closed down for fumigation so I will leave it to your imagination.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 02:21 PM

If you're flying... 3 tips from a guy with 31 years in the airline business...

1. Ask to take it on board. If they say "no," cry and ask again saying the magic word, "please." Very often you will hear, "I'll let you take it to the gate but the flight attendant is just going to take it away from you." This is the check-in agent's way of saying, "Ok, hell, I don't care!" without backing down.

2. If you still hear "no," ask to take the guitar to the gate. If the attendant says "no," wait with the instrument outside the door. A baggage handler will take it from you and give you a claim check.

3. Wrap the case in large size bubble wrap secured with duct tape.

I have always heard one should slacken the strings and pack the peghead with paper.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 01:41 PM

Andy Kimbal, just at the Tumbleweeds Festival, said Northwest Airlines is very good about carryon guitars, and United is absolutely the worst. United does have those dinky little boxes your stuff has to fit into. So, given a choice of airline, Northwest is it, even if their coach seats are murder.

MAG

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Anne
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 10:52 PM

When travelling last year from CT to Winfield< I tried to insure my guitar but could not find anyone to insure it. Later found out that Annie Wenz insures both of her guitars through BMI. I had my best luck carrying it on and putting it in an overhead.

Christine Lavin suggests packing it in a hardshell case and using a softshell case for your clothes instead of a suitcase. When you get to the Festival it's a lot easier to carry. I haved used this advice many times.

See you in Winfield!!! Anne

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 01:42 PM

Last time I moved, 91/2 years ago, I had to check my 2 guitars. The head of my hardshell Tak case was sheared off -- miraculously, just short of the guitar itself. Baggage handed it to me without comment and when I foamed at the mouth, they noticed the damage. I liked that case, dammit, and had to stand on my head to get a decentreplacement. I wouldn't dream of checking a guitar anymore.

JJ Reneaux, Cajun folkie and storyteller, has one of those travel guitars -- says she carries it on board and when they ask, she says "It's my violin."

I recently carried my old violin to my niece; carried it on with no problems.

MA

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Tony Burns
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 11:55 AM

More stories: Go to Google and enter traveling with guitar in the search box. You'll get quite a collection of hits. Some relevant some not.

If you don't want to go through the whole search take a look at this article

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 11:12 AM

The newsletter "The Sounding Board" is on the Martin Guitars website. There's an article on Travelling With Your Martin.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Art Thieme
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 11:01 AM

One bit of advice:

LOCK THE CASE!!!

Flying to Chicago from the Winnipeg Folk Festival (1979?) I picked up my guitar & banjo after the flight home and took a cab home. On opening the guitar, I found a hole in the top ala Willy Nelson. Strings still in tune. No sign of anything on the case itself. I hadn't insured it.

Going to Winnipeg I had watched the guitar in it's case fall off of the conveyer while being loaded into the plane---quite a fell---20 feet or so. It was fine after that. But I did sweat some during the flight.

Yes, it's a good idea to lock your case. Maybe even tape it all around with duct tape. I strongly believe some folks opened my guitar and were pickin' on it (and doing whatever to it), when it got that hole in it!!! Insure it too.

Art

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: JedMarum
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 10:32 AM

I am sorry to hear of Bob Franke's unfortunate experience. The airline should be more responsible than that. I suspect that had Mr. Franke had a hard copy of Larrivee or Gibson's luthier's reccommendation for carrying a guitar on an aircraft, the airline would have no choice but to pay his claim for damages. One of the major advantages of our modern Internet savvy society is these reccommendations, even in hard copy form, are just beyond our finger tips!

When I asked for advice regarding the travel ability of my J10, I was pleased to have received a personal message back from Mr Larrivee himself - but when I travel with Gibson or my Santa Cruz, I will seek the same advice from those guitar makers, as well; just in case!

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Tony Burns
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 09:05 AM

I was discussing this with Bob Franke last week. He took his Gibson out of its case and showed me the nasty, fixed crack all the way down the back of the neck. He had had it fixed but did not do the cosmetic work so the scar would be a reminder. He said he tried to claim for the repair via the airline but was told he hadn't loosened his strings enough and so it was his fault. Now we are in a new arena. Larivee says to leave them tightened but if you do that the insurance company may not compensate you if there is a problem.

btw - Bob was loosening his strings as he told the story. He said the theory on loosening strings is that when there is jarring and bouncing there is less tension on the neck and therefore it will take the abuse better. Bob now only takes one guitar if he has to fly.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: bill\sables
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 08:39 AM

Allan C, I usually carry my tenor banjo like this and always take out the bridge in case it goes through the skin when it is stored upside down on the aircraft. You must mark the bridge position unless you know how to set the bridge correctly when you set it up again. Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Bert
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 04:59 PM

Moonchild, do you have a gig in Boston or will you just be playing for yourself? Are you planning to do more travelling in the future?

If you plan to do more travelling and are not going to play professionally at your destination then a cheaper guitar might be your best option.
A friend of mine recently bought a student model 'Ovation' for his kid. Paid about $300 for it. They are quite tough AND have a narrow neck. With Ovations though you will need to try several to get one that sounds suitable to you. Judicious shopping might even turn up a used one somewhere.

Bert (Personally though, I still like my old Yamaha.)

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Allan C.
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 04:24 PM

Bill, I would think that for that, you would definitely want to loosen the strings or else the added bulk might be enough to push hard enough to possibly damage the bridge. I say this from having put one too many pieces of music in my guitar case and caved in my bridge when I closed the case. Just a thought. But otherwise a great, inexpensive solution!

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: bill\sables
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 04:03 PM

If you go to Wallmart and buy a camping bed roll the sort that is made of a hardish foam about half an inch thick and about 18 inches by 6foot long and costs about $5, and cut two pieces the size of the inside of your case put one below and one on top of the guitar This will help insulate and also gives an extra layer of anti dent material between your instrument and the luggage handler. I have used this on a number of occasions and my instruments have so far come out without damage Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: bbelle
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 10:01 AM

Well ... weighing all the pros and cons, I've decided not to take it by air. When I read the line about throwing it down the stairs, I got a sick, quivery feeling in my stomach! Plus, if something happened, my guitar is not replaceable. So, it's just not worth the uncertainty. Again, thanks all ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 26 Aug 99 - 12:58 AM

I have a very old fashioned and economical answer that works well in Australia for my double bass. I send it via Greyhound bus, having wrapped it first in copious anounts of bubble wrap and bound with gaffer tape. I don't know whether this happens universally but I leave the 'parcel' at the bus depot, book it onto a particular service departure. It gets packed by hand and stays in the one cargo hold until its arrival. Bus companies here either charge by weight or volume. The volume charges are prohibitive, but the weight based carriage is cheap as chips. The interstate buses here average about 1,000 miles a day, so the most I've had to wait is 2 days. Regards, John

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 11:32 PM

I send my Pottery via UPS and agree with the down the stairs test!The drivers are pritty good but the guys that throw them across the room at the transfer stations are probably trained by the Samsonite lugage Gorila.These guys are moving alot of stuff..High insurence dose seem to add some serius handleing to the equation..I sent a Abstract Inpretionist's painting to New Mexico with an insurence of $40,000.00 and the box was hand caried with not a skrach on it!Good Luck anyway,,,<<<<>>><<<<>>><<<>>

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: bbelle
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 05:51 PM

Well ... there's a wealth of advice here ... all of sound! Regarding the value of my guitar ... it's a 30-year-old Gibson B25 and, now, the most valuable item, both monetarily and emotionally, that I own. Buying a less valuable guitar would seem the answer, but I've never played any other guitar than my B25. Part of the reason being that my hands are small and my fingers are short and the necks of other guitars are too wide. I'll check around Tallahassee and see what I can find as an alternative. I do plan to take my B25 to the Getaway, since I'm traveling by car. Thanks all ... I'll ve checking for other responses ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 05:33 PM

Liam, it may well be that guitars can handle the pressure drop to a half or a third of what it is at ground level in several minutes better than violins. It may be the shape or the way the instrument is constructed. I take it loosening the strings can damage a guitar? If this is the case, I'll withdraw my comment and stick to violins.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: JedMarum
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 04:54 PM

Marion - I liked your advice about packing the head in underwear and sox, as opposed to newspaper - but the idea may loose its appeal for the return trip!

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: JedMarum
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 04:47 PM

Wow - lots of comment on this issue!

I would never check a guitar whose sentimental value exceeded my willingness to risk its loss, as so aptly put above, "guitar accidents do happen" - they also happen on stage, or even in your living room ... but air travel increases the likliehood of accident. That's why I would simply pay the few extra bucks for replacement insurance.

My advice on NOT LOOSENING STRINGS when shipping a guitar came from luthier Matthew Larrivee or Larrivee guitars in Canada. I believe you will find that the instruments strength, and ability to withstand abuse is at its best when the strings are tightend to playing pitch, afterall - that is meant to be its normal state.

If you have doubts, please contact the instrument manufacturer, they can give you the best advice.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 04:46 PM

I have flown many times with instruments...so far (luckily) without problem. I always make sure to take my instruments in the cabin and so far haven't had any problems with airlines on that including transatlantic. I wouldn't trust baggage handlers with an expensive or valued instrument having seen the tricks that many of them get up to. On occasions I have sent instruments by courier or train I have always loostened the strings and wrapped the case in bubble wrap. My best instrument has a hard shell (Carlton) case and although they are expensive I do have a much greater feeling of security with it. I tried standing on it (the case) once (100 kg) when slightly inebriated and it came through completely unscathed! Perhaps an as yet unreported hazard of sessions!

mcmoo

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Bert
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 04:14 PM

Oh, and don't forget ALWAYS tie a piece of rope around the case. This applies to ALL of your luggage, and it serves two purposes,
One, because it takes time to untie the rope, thieves will not bother to mess with it,
Two, it looks so cheap that the same thieves will think you luggage is worthless.

I have always done this and have never ever lost any luggage.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Bert
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 04:09 PM

UPS and FEDEX send 'all' their stuff by air (even if it's going to the same town, it is shipped to their hub and back) and it goes through baggage handling/sorting equipment similar to regular airlines.

You will still need the "Throw it down the stairs test'.

The easiest way of course is to keep a cheap guitar for when you travel. You can pick up a new Yamaha for around $175 that will be surprisingly good; or pay about half that at a pawn shop. Just paint "Martin" over the logo and no one will know the difference.

The only problem that you will then have, is that you will be certain to develop a sentimental attachment to the cheap old thing, and after a few journeys you will be back in the same situation.

If it's a place that you will be going to quite often, then you could always just leave one of your guitars there.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Marion
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 04:08 PM

One small extra suggestion:

They say you should pack crumpled paper around the head of your guitar. You might as well pack your socks and underwear there; it would be just as protective if not more so (I think?) and would free up a little bit of space in your knapsack too.

Marion

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 03:51 PM

Sending it by UPS or FEDEX is an interesting idea. Does anyone have a clue how much it would cost. Say from New York to Los Angeles, or from Montreal to Vancouver?

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 03:29 PM

Bert: you make me laugh so much! I'd love to've been there to see any of those scenarios.

I just checked with my dad about flying, as he used to work on Amchitka, in the Aleutian Island and always took his instruments. He was always able to carry an instrument aboard. said he'd take the resonator off his banjo and put it in his suitcase. That way the banjo would fit under the seat, as did the fiddle in its case. BUT, he also said he thinks there was more leg room back then.

As for the strings: he said if you did anything it would be to loosen them, but he never did, just left them tuned up. Of course, he entertained the cabin crew and other passengers a lot, too, which, if you offer, might just help get your guitar on! The Alaskan Airlines people esp. enjoyed seeing ole' Sparky come aboard because they knew it meant good music.

Good luck,

kat

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Bert
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 03:10 PM

There is a machine that airports use to transfer bags from one conveyor to another. It is euphemistically called 'A Pusher'. What it does is gives the bag a hefty whack "POW", so hard that it flies in the air and lands on the other conveyor. It's somewhat like hitting your bag with a large hammer.

So after you have packed your guitar, you must throw it down the stairs. If you don't feel confident enough to do that, then go back and repack your guitar.

As an alternative you can try making prior arrangements to take your guitar as hand luggage when you buy your ticket. But then you must be prepared for the fact that the cabin staff will know nothing of the arrangement. Then you will have to threaten them with legal action, demand your money back immediately and maybe even miss the flight. But enough kicking and screaming will usually get you on board. If you take that route, it helps a lot to have the guitar in your hand without a case. The sight of the fragile instrument often elicits enough sympathy with the cabin crew that they will let you on board.

Another way is to pack your guitar in one of those soft folding overnight bags that they let you hang with the coats.

I have used all three methods successfully.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 03:02 PM

Moonchild,

How far you are willing to go to protect your guitar depends on the value (emotional and financial) of your guitar. Guitar accidents do happen. My last air travel was over two years ago. Then, I was able to get my guitar as carry-on on one flight. But then there were delays on the next flight and a cancellation and suddenly, on my next connection the flight was full and they refused to take my guitar on board. So I stood at the gate watching them take my guitar down to the luggage hold. I didn't cry, but I sure felt like it.

To guarantee the best care, you simply book a seat for your guitar and strap it in. Then you're OK unless the plane crashes (at which point you may be happy just to get out alive). Oops, sorry about that depressing stuff. This is an expensive option.

If you go to Elderly.com you will find amongst the accessories one or two versions of "travel cases". Mark Leaf is the one that comes to mind. These are massive padded things constructed to your guitar's dimensions and designed to ease rough handling, exposure to humidity, and severe temperature changes. The problem with them? Well, it's nothing that a couple of hundred dollars can't handle (they are expensive).

Liam's advice is pretty sound if it's just the money. If it's feelings (you just couldn't bear to lose that guitar), the guitar should stay home.

I recently read an article about traveling with your guitar and they suggested packing the sucker up and shipping it ahead via UPS. You can still insure it, and the idea is that they might be more gentle and the trucks aren't as bad as an airplane luggage hold at 50,000 feet of altitude. I can't evaluate that technique as I have never tried it.

I have had my favorite guitar for almost 35 years. She and I have been through a lot. I bought a second guitar for most of my travels "out of the house" because losing my favorite would break my heart. I suspect I will bring her to the Getaway however, just to show her off to my new friends. Oh, and I'm bringing Marge for the same reason.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Allan C.
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:59 PM

I mean, the assumption is that you are asking about flying. Come winter, I would have some problems with train or (especially) bus travel with a guitar. Anyone have any advice on this?

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Sourdough
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:59 PM

I'm going to be heading out to Winfield,Kansas on my motorcycle next month and plan on shipping my autoharp and 12-stringer ahead, probably by FedEx. I would love a definitive answer about loosening/not loosening strings. For obvios reasons, loosening Autoharp strings unnecessarily is a less than an enjoyable outlook.

Any other opinions? Options?

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Allan C.
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:54 PM

Flying?

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:47 PM

I've heard people say they checked guitars at the gate, which saves some tossing, piling, and conveyor-belting. Hard shell cases are also recommended.

Re string loosening: it doesn't hurt to loosen the strings, but it can hurt to not loosen them. The first time I flew with my fiddle, I didn't know about this and wound up with three broken strings and a crack in the instrument. The problem may have something to do with temperature, but has a lot more to do with air pressure. Things that have air in them (such as wood cells) expand when the pressure drops if the air can't escape fast enough. The instrument gets bigger, the strings don't, and kablooie.

Subject: RE: Traveling with Guitar
From: JedMarum
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:36 PM

You will almost certainly have to check the guitar. I have a very valuable guitar that I brought form Dallas to Boston, I wrote to the guitar maker and was told that the guitar and case were made to stand the rigors of air travel. He said DO NOT LOOSEN THE STRINGS ... and the only additional precaution he suggested was that I pack the head with crumpled newspaper, above and below, to keep it from rattling.

I followed these instructions, and insured the guitar for its full replacement value. The guitar and I chnaged planes (twice RT) and we both survived without incident! I was most concerned about temperature changes, and watched it sit on top of the baggage vehicle on the tarmack at Cleveland for 15 minutes in 95 geree sun, before the 'ramp rat' tossed it onto the conveyor belt and into the belly of our craft. Except for a new nasty scratch on the case, everything was fine.

As a famous American once said, "Trust but verify" I would let the airline carry the instrument, but pay the extra cash to insure its full value! Good Luck!

Subject: Traveling with Guitar
From: bbelle
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:22 PM

I'm going to Boston the end of September and taking my guitar. Many years ago I would put it through with my luggage, but would not even entertain the thought nowadays. Any suggestions for how I should handle this dilemna?