BS: AWOL: Common Sense...

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: GUEST,Big Ballad Singer
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 01:29 PM

I used to live in a town where they had their own local utility crew to come and read your meter. Was supposed to happen once a month.

We didn't get a bill for a good long stretch, then one day we received one in the mail for over $2500. That's right... twenty-five HUNDRED dollars.

When we contacted the municipal authorities, they told us we received an "estimated" bill for the following reasons:

1) They had not been able to verify that there was anyone living in the home, so they never sent the earlier bills

and

2) They had to estimate the bills because the readers were never able to get into our home to read the meters.

Here are the problems with these excuses. One, we had been living in the house for nearly a year. The post office is less than one block from the municipal building; they could have simply ASKED if anyone was living at #26 so-and-so street.

Two, at the time these readers were supposedly unable to reach us, we had ONE car in the household, which I used for work EVERY WEEKDAY. My wife was home with our young daughters EVERY SINGLE DAY. She had nowhere to go and no way to get to any of the places she would have wanted to go to. Besides, if a meter reader made a house call one day and found no one home, it would have been a simple matter to just come back the next day, or whatever.

Needless to say, when the "estimated" bill for 8-9 months' worth of services came in, we raised hell.

To top it all off, when my father and I went to the municipal offices to contest the bill, we had to deal with a woman (it was Christmastime) wearing one of those stupid antler headband things. Imagine trying to have a serious conversation with a 200-lb-plus woman wearing antlers.

Sadly, that's not too untypical for our town. I have met other people who have had to deal with the same corrupt utility personnel.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 12:02 AM

What if the 95-year-old woman had her daughter at age 16, at not unheard-of thing. That would make her daughter 79. Maybe the daughter herself is too old to care for her mother.

That's why I said 'family' needs to do a better job in my first post.

I suspect the TSA employees of raising a fuss over the diaper just to get the old lady some better care.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 02:41 PM

I think, as with most things in our society, the Press made a storm in a teacup.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 02:30 PM

I agree with JiK... "It sounds to me like the daughter who didn't plan appropirately for her mother's needs should be charged with "elder abuse." " That is pretty bad.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 12:44 PM

"It's something I couldn't imagine happening on American soil," Weber said Friday. "Here is my mother, 95 years old, 105 pounds, barely able to stand, and then this."


1. I can't picture any loving family sending a ill 95-year-old woman on an airplane ride from Florida to Michigan.

2. I can't picture ditto not providing extra diapers.

3. I sure wouldn't want to be sitting near a passenger wearing a soiled diaper.

Where are their brains?

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 10:33 AM

Watchoo talkin' 'bout, Bee-Dub? You got alligators ta guard yer place!

Bobert, if "common sense" were common you wouldn't notice it any more than a fish notices water. Actually it's the rarest thing in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 09:40 AM

Rural outdoor lights in the US are streetlight-strength lights mounted on standard utility poles used to illuminate one's property at night. Their main function is to aid thieves by showing them exactly where your lawnmower is located instead of making them search it out using flashlights. They also serve the subsidiary function of increasing sales of drapery products by making the outside so bright it's impossible to sleep without heavy window drapes.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 05:43 AM

Thanks John. I'm getting the picture now.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 05:39 AM

With the "acreage" Bobert has, it might be well for him to investigage just what kind of "outside light" his electric utility was talking about.

Although the "always on" kind are sometimes a bit of an annoyance, his situation might make them something he'd actually be interested in once he's finished "settlin' in."

Cattle rustlin' is still fairly common in rural US areas, although I haven't heard of anyone taking someone's herd of gerbils (yet). He does need a modicum of security provisions for his Kubota, since I really need one (and so do several of his neighbors on the other side of his pond).

John

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 04:59 AM

At least in my area the "Yard Lights" commonly installed in rural and/or "semi-rural" areas are considered an important security measure, but have the disadvantage that they're nearly always halide lights that require a special "ignition sequence" to get them turned on. Regulations generally require that a "turn on" be done by a licensed electrician, so it's rather expensive to turn one off if you intend for it to be turned back on. Hence they run 24 hours per day.

Never heard of these things.
For our own outside and mostly to see where we are going, I've got a couple of 300W halogen flood lights and a PIR sensor. They are rarely on for more than about 15 minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jun 11 - 04:52 AM

Re Yard Lights -

At least in my area the "Yard Lights" commonly installed in rural and/or "semi-rural" areas are considered an important security measure, but have the disadvantage that they're nearly always halide lights that require a special "ignition sequence" to get them turned on. Regulations generally require that a "turn on" be done by a licensed electrician, so it's rather expensive to turn one off if you intend for it to be turned back on. Hence they run 24 hours per day.

Minimum sizes are in the vicinity of about 250 Watts, although common ones run near 1 to 3 KW.

The main purpose is not so you can see to wander around your own yard, since you probably know where all the "trippables" are. The light is to warn any "intruders" that they will be seen if they wander in at night - and to let you see what's going on without going past the kitchen window.

Re - the diaper incident

TSA has asserted that they did NOT insist that the diaper be removed so that they could "strip search" the old lady. They offered her accompanying relative an opportunity to replace the diaper because it was soiled. (There are at least a couple of versions of what was actually requested.)

It's common for airlines to allow an attendant to accompany a handicapped person, if an advance request is made. Although policies vary with the airline, the "attendant" often flies at a reduced rate.

The attendant is expected to provide any special equipment required by the handicapped person, and for someone who needs a diaper a clean diaper would be a reasonably expected thing for anyone "in attendance" to provide. A few common things like a wheel chair for transport from parking to checkin, and sometimes even an attendant to get the person onto the plane can sometimes be provided if request and confirmed arrangements are made in advance.

Even if the complaining relative wasn't accompanying the old lady on the flight, failure to provide for a change on or immediately prior to the flight indicates PPP (piss-poor planning) on the part of whoever was getting her on the plane.

Florida to Michigan is around 2 to 3 hours (depending on transfers, taxi time, etc?) and check-in 2 hours before departure is a standard published requirement. Add about an hour for baggage pickup, and we have a little old lady who's daughter expected her handicapped (and presumedly incontinent) mother to wear one dirty diaper for around 6 hours in an "unusual and stressful situation."

It sounds to me like the daughter who didn't plan appropirately for her mother's needs should be charged with "elder abuse." (But I'll wait for a more complete report from both sides of the dispute.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 07:25 PM

Yeah, John on the Potsmoke Coast, it's a light on a pole...

Man, that TSA agent wantin' to inspect the 95 year old woman's diaper is messed up (pun unintended)...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 07:17 PM

There is an unspoken system in some businesses to do certain billings automatically, whether used or not....and then say "sorry" if caught.

I went to emergency room a few years ago with a cut on my thumb...wrapped in a bandage. Lady asked "what's wrong?" I says "cut my thumb". She says "Ok"...and soon they call me and a doc puts 3 stitches in my thumb. Fine.

When the bill arrives, there was $40 charge for "triage" I calls and says "Huh?" Lady says "that's the charge for evaluating you when you come to emergency room." I says "I was NOT 'evaluated'... I held up my thumb!" She says..."Oh...well, I'll be glad to remove that charge."

Seems that charge is automatic...and most folks who have insurance never even notice!

You want interesting data? Look at the newish things added to your charge cards these days....

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 06:21 PM

And here I thought y'all were going to be talking about THIS story:


Elderly woman asked to remove adult diaper during TSA search

June 25, 2011 11:09 AM
Lauren Sage Reinlie

Daily News

A woman has filed a complaint with federal authorities over how her elderly mother was treated at Northwest Florida Regional Airport last weekend.

Jean Weber of Destin filed a complaint with the Department of Homeland Security after her 95-year-old mother was detained and extensively searched last Saturday while trying to board a plane to fly to Michigan to be with family members during the final stages of her battle with leukemia.

Her mother, who was in a wheelchair, was asked to remove an adult diaper in order to complete a pat-down search.

"It's something I couldn't imagine happening on American soil," Weber said Friday. "Here is my mother, 95 years old, 105 pounds, barely able to stand, and then this."

Sari Koshetz, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration in Miami, said she could not comment on specific cases to protect the privacy of those involved.

"The TSA works with passengers to resolve any security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner," she said.

Weber's mother entered the airport's security checkpoint in a wheelchair because she was not stable enough to walk through, Weber said.

Wheelchairs trigger certain protocols, including pat-downs and possible swabbing for explosives, Koshetz said.

"During any part of the process, if there is an alarm, then we have to resolve that alarm," she said.

Weber said she did not know whether her mother had triggered an alarm during the 45 minutes they were detained.

She said her mother was first pulled aside into a glass-partitioned area and patted down. Then she was taken to another room to protect her privacy during a more extensive search, Weber said.

Weber said she sat outside the room during the search.

She said security personnel then came out and told her they would need for her mother to remove her Depends diaper because it was soiled and was impeding their search.

Weber wheeled her mother into a bathroom, removed her diaper and returned. Her mother did not have another clean diaper with her, Weber said.

Weber said she wished there were less invasive search methods for an elderly person who is unable to walk through security gates.

"I don't understand why they have to put them through that kind of procedure," she said.

Koshetz said the procedures are the same for everyone to ensure national security.

"TSA cannot exempt any group from screening because we know from intelligence that there are terrorists out there that would then exploit that vulnerability," she said.

Weber filed a complaint through Northwest Florida Regional's website. She said she received a response from a Homeland Security representative at the airport on Tuesday and spoke to that person on the phone Wednesday.

The representative told her that personnel had followed procedures during the search, Weber said.

"Then I thought, if you're just following rules and regulations, then the rules and regulations need to be changed," she said.

Weber said she plans to file additional complaints next week.

"I'm not one to make waves, but dadgummit, this is wrong. People need to know. Next time it could be you."

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:53 PM

Yard light on a pole?

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:50 PM

Bobert, what is an 'outdoor light'? Are we talking street illumination...in which case I would opt against, preferring starlight...or is this what I would call a porch light so your visitors don't stumble in the dark...which should be part of your normal lighting (electric) service? Or is this something else entirely? Either way it sounds like a rip-off to me.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:45 PM

In Wichita, "buried" lawn sprinklers are required to be on a separate supply, with a separate meter, and an anti-siphon valve at the meter.

I decided I didn't need an automatic sprinkler, so I shut it off.

Six months later, when I got a bill that included a charge for water "metered" for the sprinkler system, I informed them I didn't use it and there should be no water to be metered. It was shut off at the meter inlet.

They had to send a guy out to verify that it was turned off, and when he actually read the meter, it was determined that there had been no water used. (They'd "estimated" something to avoid actually reading it?)

I was also informed that if I wanted it shut off, I had to "disconnect" the lawn system and remove the "antisiphon" fitting, which I then did.

About two years later I get a bill for the "mandatory bi-annual antisiphon inspection." (It had been at least six years since the last "inspection," that's supposed to be done every other year.) When I called to tell them that there wasn't an antisiphon to inspect, they had to send another guy out to make sure.

While I was waiting for the guy to show up I popped the lid off the meter sump, and discovered that there wasn't even a meter there any more. They'd removed the meter nearly two years before they tried to bill me for inspecting the antisiphon valve that wasn't there, and of course the anti-siphon that wasn't there wasn't connected to the meter that wasn't there.

We settled it without going to court.

John

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:11 PM

So... did you tell the previous ownwers they was being ripped off? They should be able to get at least some money back.

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:09 PM

Presumably technician will be fitting you in on some sort of round of calls? It's $8 per month not just one $8 fee? There might be a few who try to save on their electricity bill by saying they've not got a light when they have?

Subject: RE: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 05:01 PM

Well, maybe it's common *cents* they're making!

Subject: BS: AWOL: Common Sense...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 04:53 PM

Okay, ya'll... If you have a story to tell about just how little common sense there is left in this world then this thread is for you...

What made me think of it follows: When we were getting ready to move to NC I called the electric company to get the electric power put in our name... The rep asked me if I wanted to pay $8.00 a month additional for the outdoor light... Well, I had never been there (here) at night but didn't recall seeing any outside lights so I asked the rep if the previous owner had been paying for it and was told that he was...

So the P-Vine goes thru every bill and saw the $8.00 charge for the "outside light" and asked me to go out and see if I could find one...

No light!!!

So she calls the electric company and the rep agreed to credit us the $8.00 back but before she could do that she would have to send a technical out to our house to verify that there is no light...

So the electric company is going to pay a technician $__________, plus $__________ gas for the truck over an $8.00 charge???

Where is the "common sense" here???

B~