Lyr Add: Pastourelle Jollie (translation wanted)

Subject: RE: Info req: Translation of French lyric ?
From: Okiemockbird
Date: 01 Jan 00 - 07:28 PM

Jo, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. The news of those French winds reminded me quite sharply of our storms of last May 3. (My street didn't see so much as a hailstone, but some houses were flattened not far to the north.) I'm sorry to hear your house was damaged, but glad you and yours suffered no bodily harm. I hope you and all the other folk can fix the damage and get on with things, and aren't plagued by foot-dragging insurers and such.

T.

Subject: RE: Info req: Translation of French lyric ?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 01 Jan 00 - 06:49 PM

Well done Malcolm, with a quick look I don't know if I could add anything to yours - I'm sorry, I haven't had time yet! Had website to sort out before Christmas, went to England and were flooded at 88-year-old parents' house in Devon in the early hours of Christmas Eve, and then had a call from here (France) to inform us of the passing of the hurricane on the night of Christmas Day which took rather a lot of our roof with it... I will look at it as soon as poss., but house is full of buckets and bowls and yard strewn with slates! (The 1727 bit is OK - we had that re-roofed last year.) We're much better off than some though, a friend-of-a-friend's family just got out in time after their roof flew off then the whole house collapsed.
Jo
from a slightly less wet & windy Normandy now...

Subject: RE: Info req: Translation of French lyric ?
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiembockbird)
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 04:43 PM

Malcolm, thanks. I suspect "soubzrise" is "smiled" or "laughed" or some such. Anyhow with you and Jo working on it, I think we'll get a good sense of it.

FYI the lyric comes from Gaston Paris and Auguste Geveart, Chansons du XVe Siècle--Publiées d'après le manuscrit de la Bibliothèque Nationale de Paris, Librarie de Firmin-Didot et Cie, Paris, 1875.

Gaston Paris's note on "soubzrise" is: "La forme soubzrise, dont je fais par conjecture un participe, est régulière; l'anc. fr. [i.e. old French] disait ris pour ri; cf it. [Italian ?] riso.

Thanks again,

T.

Subject: RE: Info req: Translation of French lyric ?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 04:11 PM

This is interesting. I hope Jo Taylor won't mind if I have a go at it straight away:

"Pretty shepherdess
God grant you good day.
I am taken with a great desire
To become a shepherd
And to learn the skill* of it."

"How can one become a shepherd
Who has nothing to watch over?"
"If I had your love
Well would I watch over it
For I am well skilled in that."

"You shall not have my love, dear
For fear of dishonour
Never a day in my life
Have I been in love
And I do not have the skill of it."

"Sweetheart, fair sweetheart
Do not fear dishonour
For never in my life
Will I leave aside** your love
Never and on no day."

The fair maid ***
Saying, "Sweet darling
If you know the manner
Of the pretty game of love
Then show me the skill of it."

*    tour is "trick", or "knack", strictly speaking.

**   lerray: laisserai? or conceivably a verb related to "lerre", a robber, thief..."will I steal"

*** s'est soubzrise: I can only guess at this. gasped? trembled? (cf. modern Fr. "soubresaut", a sudden emotion, catch of the breath, gasp etc.)

Not an elegant translation, but with luck I've got most of it.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Info req: Translation of French lyric ?
From: Margo
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 06:57 AM

Yes, it is rather archaic. But I can tell that he says he would learn to be a shepherd, and she says How can you be a shepherd with nothing to guard? (sheep) He says if he had her love he would guard it, then I lose the meaning after that. Verbs unfamiliar to me. Margo

Subject: RE: Info req: Translation of French lyric ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 07:51 PM

Just for fun I tried Babelfish on this. It tried its best...Then turned belly up, and floated to the surface.

" Pastourelle jollie, God you doint tresbon day.
It is to to me prins grant desire for becoming pastour,
and for knowing the turn of it. "

" How seroit pastour which does not have nothing has to keep? "
" If avoye vostre love, the saroye to keep well,
because I in scay well the turn. "

" Me love will not arez crumb,
of paour of deshonnour,
jamès day of my life I liked by love,
and if in scay the turn. "

" Friendly, beautiful friend,
craingnés deshonnour,
because jamès in my life lerray vostre love,
jamès and has no day. "

The beautiful one is soubzrise by saying,
" Friendly doulx, if you know the own way of the pretty set of loves,
if me will monstrez the turn of it. "

Subject: RE: Info req: Translation of French lyric ?
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 07:43 PM

Jo, thanx! T.

Subject: RE: Info req: Translation of French lyric ?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 07:33 PM

Mmm - looks rather archaic, but I'll have a go - not now, too late. In similar vein, we have a date stone which says 'J'ay ettez faite batir par Lovis Hve annee 1727' - in modern French 'J'étais fait batir par Louis Hue, année 1727'. (Bought the house from the Hue family in 1989.) So, it needs a bit of working out...
I'll get back to you!
Jo

Subject: Lyr Add: PASTOURELLE JOLLIE (15c French)
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 01:59 PM

The following 15th-century lyric appears to be a dialog between a shepherdess and some being of the male persuasion, but my French isn't advanced enough to make out the details. Can anyone take a stab at providing a rough paraphrase/translation ?

"Pastourelle jollie,
Dieu te doint tresbon jour.
Il m'est prins grant envie
de devenir pastour,
et d'en savoir le tour."

"Comment seroit pastour
qui n'a rien a garder ?"
"Si avoye vostre amour,
bien la saroye garder,
car j'en scay bien le tour."

"M'amour n'arez vous mie,
de paour de deshonnour,
jamès jour de ma vie
je n'aimé par amour,
et si n'en scay le tour."

"Amie, belle amie,
ne craingnés deshonnour,
car jamès en ma vie
ne lerray vostre amour,
jamès et a nul jour."

La belle s'est soubzrise
en disant, "Ami doulx,
si vous savez la guise
du joli jeu d'amours,
si m'en monstrez le tour."

T.