Lyr Req: Flower of Magherally (from Kevin Conneff

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Flower of Magherally (from Kevin Conneff
From: GUEST,Adele
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:30 AM

Does anyone know the history of this song?

Subject: Lyr Add: FLOWER OF MAGHERALLY (from Seán O Boyle)
From: GUEST,David Ingerson
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 08:40 PM

Here is how Seán O Boyle learned it from his father's singing:

THE FLOWER OF MAGHERALLY

One pleasant summer's morning when all the flowers were springing-Oh;
Nature was adorning and the wee birds sweetly singing-Oh.
I met my love near Banbridge Town, my charming blue-eyed Sally-Oh.
She's the queen of the County Down and the Flower of Magherally-Oh.

With admiration I did gaze upon this blue-eyed maiden-Oh.
Adam wasn't half so much plazed when he met Eve in Eden-Oh.
Her skin was like the lily white that grows in yonder valley-Oh.
She's my queen and my heart's delight and the flower of Magherally-Oh.

Her yellow hair in ringlets clung, her shoes were Spanish leather-Oh.
Her bonnet with blue ribbons strung, her scarlet cap and feather-Oh.
Like Venus bright she did appear, my charming blue-eyed Sally-Oh.
She's the girl that I love dear, the flower of Magherally-Oh.

I hope the day will surely come when we'll join hands together-Oh.
It's then I'll bring my darling home in spite of wind and weather-Oh.
And let them all say what they will and let them reel and rally-Oh,
For I shall wed the girl I love, she's the flower of Magherally-Oh!


Leeneia, I suspect the weakness and distraction of "Titherally" was just one of the reasons why that verse has been left out completely by many singers. The entire verse lacks the descriptive power and imagery of the other verses. The song has already been folk-processed into a better and only four-verse song, IMO.

David

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 08:26 AM

If I were performing this song, I would turn on my folk-processor and write a new couplet to replace the verse under discussion. It's true that the now-meaningless word "Titherally" is a weakness and a distraction. It's time for it to go.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,Pecker Dunn
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 09:32 PM

Jasus i hope that man gets his lispy lip sorted, tis hard on the auld ears, esp, when you d have all the bass end off and up with the trebel. Roud doud a diddle doo. tis white noise from the bowels of tir na nog.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 08:56 PM

Ineteresting and insightful.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,David Ingerson
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 08:41 PM

If our sensitive guest asked for some information and didn't come back for two years to see if any was given, she probably won't be back to see what we might say about her now, but I'd like to thank her for refreshing this thread, which I'd never seen.

This is one of my favorite songs, too. I got it from the singing of Sinead Cahir and also of Cathal McConnell. Neither of them use the verse in question, and neither does Sean O'Boyle include it in his book, The Irish Song Tradition. The words of the four verses in O'Boyle's book are essentially the same as what ard mhacha posted above, but there are many little differences. If I can get it together to find the time, I'll post O'Boyle's version.

Concerning the culture of origin, one suggestive line has not been pointed out: "And let them all say what they will, and let them reel and rally-o." O'Boyle suggests this might refer to opposition to the marriage, and , considering the location, it might be sectarian opposition. In which case there might be a Catholic influence in the words. Of course, that's a lot of maybes and mights to build an argument on. An interesting point anyway. Yeah, yeah—interesting but not persuasive. Oh well. It's a beautiful song, regardless—and one of the few love songs not about lost love!

David

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 05:37 PM

Minds me... Kevin, on a TV show, saying the understatement of all time, "Those who have no musical talent play the bodhràn.", just before singing "The May Morning Dew" in a small church in which his voice resonated the heavens. What a treasure. Give that man a bar of ivory soap!

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 02:57 PM

guest - if you look above you will see a sdiscussion of one belief that some of the lyrics are a corruption of the phrase "great tetrach Oli O" - which is what was being refferred to. You asked for some information - some was given.

To take insult after more then 2 years when no insult was intended is being a bit sensitive.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jun 05 - 02:46 PM

i have just read what you posted 'An Plumeir Ceolmhar' and i don't know if what you said was meant as an insult. Where did i write about 'Ali G'????? i am aware that this is years later but i came upon the thread whilst looking for other information. I'll know better in future to ask for information.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 21 May 03 - 09:44 AM

Mary,

If you're asked about "the great Tetrarch Ali G", you can at least quote the bafflement of the Mudcat as proof that the meaning of the phrase is evidently lost to the modern world. The amount of random knowledge combined with serious scholarship here is awesome, and if there were any serious explanations they would almost certainly crop up here.

For what it's worth, tetrarch is a Greek term, whereas Ali is obviously an Arab name, so I'm sceptical about that explanation for the mystery phrase. But I take it that you're interested in all other aspects of the background to the song, so I defer to the knowledgeable in this respect.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,mary mccaffrey
Date: 20 May 03 - 05:20 PM

i was just wondering if anyone would know the history behind the flower of magherally o. i'm currently studying for a level music and for my practical i've decided to sing this song. the examiner is going to ask me questions about the piece so obviously any help would be greatly appriciated!

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 09 Oct 02 - 03:09 PM

Peter

John may well see this - but I'll drop an email to him anyway.

Regards

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,Peter McCavana
Date: 09 Oct 02 - 02:37 PM

(My apologies if this goes too far off the thread...)
Sub-subject: Hello to John Moulden (perhaps through Martin Ryan?)

Hello John,

I was browsing through the forum discussion on The Flower of Magherally (one of my favourite songs) when I was pleasantly surprised to see your name.

I wonder if you remember me?
I'm an old friend of Robbie Haldane (and also Len Graham & co.). I used to play in sessions (in Portrush, the Crosskeys, etc.) & occasional concerts with Robbie in the late 1970s.
I also played in the group called "Drumlin" (founded by Robbie & myself). In addition to the usual repertoire, we played a lot of harp tunes & airs (which I played on a "chord harp-zither", as well as finger-picking them on guitar).

Robbie now lives in the USA (in upstate New York), and I live in Marseille.

I might get back in touch with you about a few musical things.
The last time I met you - God knows where, a long time ago - we had a brief conversation about the problems of transcribing the staff notation together with the words, using computer software - however, such things have been simplified a lot since those days!

Are you working on any books or collections at the minute?
And what transcription/notation software, if any, do you use?

Please write back to me directly at [e-mail]

Best regards,

Peter McCavana

e-mail: [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 07:23 PM

... and a very nice dinner it was too!

Lurking in the depths of my last post was a mangled mention of the same Tetrarch Ali! What's interesting to me is that Dominic ?? sang the odd verse for Henry - but not for the first collector (Millington Fox?)

Regards

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: GUEST,John Moulden in Galway
Date: 16 Jul 01 - 10:50 AM

There is another conjecture, probably Sam Henry's, that this word "Titterally" is (litterally) a corruption, not of any Irish phrase but of the great "Tetrarch Ali" - I've never found this convincing - but neither am I convinced by the suggested Gaelic homophones though they have a bit more promise.

John (about to have dinner with Martin Ryan and his wife, Josephine.)

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: Brían
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 11:04 PM

Thanks, Martin.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: MartinRyan
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 03:37 PM

Jeez! Something very strange happening with my keyboard!

For "Daer", read "Damer".
For "Tary" read "Tipperary"!

Sorry about that.

Regards

p.s. Years ago, I remember acting in the "Damer Hall" in Dublin. Wonder if ....

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: MartinRyan
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 09:30 AM

Right! The only place I can find this verse in print is in Sam Henry's SOngs of the People, as published by Huntington etc. some years back. They quote Henry as follows:

' The exigencies of rhyme required the humoroius substitution of "the great titter-a-tally o", the reference being in all prob to Daer, of Shronhill, near Tary, the richest man in Ireland abouit 1800, or it may be a corruiption of "reat tetrarch Ali O!" as the old song makers were very fond of learned allusions."

The only earlier wsource of the song of which I know is in the first issue of the Journal of Irish Folksong society (1904). Two versions are given, one from the same source as Henry's. Neither use the word.

Regards

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: Brían
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 02:46 PM

Go raibh míle maith agat. I'm looking to expand my leabharlann.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:16 PM

Brian A Chara, I have an old recording of Eileen Donaghy singing it and she does it justice. In Colm O`Lochlainns Irish Street Ballads the only informsation he gives is, Air from Cathal O` Byrne Belfast, Cathal was resposible for a great book on the Belfast area,"As I Roved Out". I seen a reprint on sale last year, he was a folk singer as well as a writer, and in it he also covers a few songs, a good read. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: Brían
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:04 PM

Thanks, Ard. A gret song who ever's the pen it sprouted from.

Beidh mé ag caint aríst.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 11:11 AM

Hello Brian, I live about ten miles from the townland of Maherally near Banbridge, and it has been a Planter stronghold. The stanza you quote has been used by both denominations of folk song writers. I am certain a hedge educated bard would have come a lot closer to the Gaelic word Slan, Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: Brían
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 10:17 AM

I dunno, Ard. I think Áine has a point. Titharally looks like a corruption of gaeilge. I'd be interested on why you think this song came from the planter's tradition. The classical allusions sound to me like the hand of a hedge school poet and there is assonace reminiscent of Irish Language songs(With admiration I did gaze upon this fair eyed maiden o).

It's a pity there are more versions of the song than information about it. In THE IRISH SONG TRADITION, Sean O Boyle only says that he got it from the singing of his father.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 07:23 AM

Aine, The song comes from the Planter culture and I am not sure if they had much knowledge of Irish. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: radriano
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 11:14 AM

Very interesting, Áine, thanks for the post!

I can see why people usually leave out this verse but it's a good verse and I'd rather include it if I can provide an explanation for the phrase.


Regards,
Richard

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: Áine
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 09:12 AM

Comhghairdeas a Mhairtín!

I'm thinking that the word 'Titharally' in this song is an anglicized spelling/pronunciation of the word(s) 'tíargálaí', 'tíaralaí' or 'tíarnúilí', all of which could be used to mean 'Lords' or 'Dominions'. Each of these words have their root in the word 'tír', which means 'land', 'country', 'state', 'nation'.

Hoping this helps, Áine

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: radriano
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 07:44 PM

Martin:

I'd appreciate learning the details whenever you get around to it.

And Martin, CONGRATULATIONS!


All the best,
Richard

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: MartinRyan
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 05:43 PM

Richard

It's got a meaning alright - the problem is to remember it or find it! (name of a landlord, offhand?) I never sing that verse myself - too many people's heads come up as though to say "What's all that about?"! I'll check on it when I get a chance.

Regards

p.s. I'm between honeymoon and Willy Clancy week so be prepared to interpret "when..." fairly liberally!

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: radriano
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 04:21 PM

Ard mhacha, my family's name was Adriano'wicz but my father shortened it to Adrianowicz when we came to America so we could fit in better.

Your kind words are much appreciated.


All the best,
Richard

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 01:24 PM

Hello Radriano, I thought you wern`t irish, the `o`s in the wrong place. That dosen`t take away your great knowledge of all folk music and espically irish stuff. This is a great site, there are more experts per page than in the White House. Slan Aed Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: radriano
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 12:53 PM

I'm in San Francisco, California, ard mhacha.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 01:07 AM

I had this from Jerry Hicks, Keady, Co. Armagh, in 1952. He was a friend and neighbor of Sean O'Boyle, and of the Makem family. He was not a known singer, but a fine one, had learned the song from his father who, he said, didn't so much SING it as CROON it. What does "croon" mean? Why, he said, it's singin inside- for yourself instead of for the noisy world of people...Oh, it can be heard, but it's soft-like- not for show.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: ard mhacha
Date: 04 Jul 01 - 05:40 AM

Hello Radriano, Its another version of diddly dee, as sure as certain, Titharally a handy ryhme for Magherally.Are you from the US?. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: radriano
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 04:49 PM

Hi ard mhacha-

So are you saying that "Titharally" has no meaning but is just meant to rhyme with Magherally?

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 04:41 PM

Hello Radriano, I have been around this oul country many moons but the Titharally is bloody awful poetic licence. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: Lyr Add: FLOWER OF MAGHERALLY
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 04:36 PM

Hello Radriano,

Flower of Magherally

It was on a summers morning
when flowers were a-blooming,o.
When meadows were adorning
and small birds sweetly tuning,o
I met my love near Banbridge town,
My charming blooming Sally o
And she is the Queen of County Down
the flower of Magherally,o.

With admiration I did gaze
Upon this blooming maiden o
Adam never was more struck
When he first saw Eve in Eden,o.
Her skin was like the Lly white
That grows in yonder valley,o
And I think i`m blest when I am nigh
The flower of Magherally,o.

Her yellow hair in ringlets fell,
Her shoes were Spanish leather,o
Her bonnet with blue ribbons strung,
Her scarlet scarf and feather,o
Like Venus bright she did appear
My charming blooming Sally o
And she is the girl that I love dear,
The Flower of Magherally,o.

An Irish lad although I be,
With neither wealth nor treasure,o
But yet I love my dearest dear,
I love her beyond measure,o.
If i`d all the wealth that is possessed
By the great Titharally, o.
I`d give it to her that I love best
The Flower of Magherally,o.

But I hope the time will surely come
When we join hands together, o.
I`ts then i`ll take my darling home
In spite of wind and weather o.
And let them all say what they will,
And let them scowl and rally,o.
For I shall wed the girl I love
The Flower of Magherally, o.


Magherally a small townland near Banbridge County Down. Best recording by Eileen Donaghy

Slan Ard Mhacha.

line breaks fixed by mudelf ;-)

Subject: Lyr Add: FLOWER OF MAGHERALLY
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 04:26 PM

Hello Radriano,

FLOWER OF MAGHERALLY

It was on a summers morning
when flowers were a-blooming,o.
When meadows were adorning
and small birds sweetly tuning,o
I met my love near Banbridge town,
My charming blooming Sally o
And she is the Queen of County Down
the flower of Magherally,o.

With admiration I did gaze
Upon this blooming maiden o
Adam never was more struck
When he first saw Eve in Eden, o.
Her skin was like the Lly white
That grows in yonder valley, o
And I think i`m blest when I am nigh
The flower of Magherally, o.

Her yellow hair in ringlets fell,
Her shoes were Spanish leather,o
Her bonnet with blue ribbons strung,
Her scarlet scarf and feather,o
Like Venus bright she did appear
My charming blooming Sally o
And she is the girl that I love dear,
The Flowere of Magherally,o.

An Irish lad although I be,
With neither wealth nor treasure,o
But yet I love my dearest dear,
I love her beyond measure ,o.
If i`d all the wealth that is possessed
By the great Titharally, o.

line breaks fixed by mudelf ;-)

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: radriano
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 04:25 PM

Well, Noreen, I can't say that I know, exactly.

The Flower of Magherally appears in Colm O Lochlainn's Irish Street Ballads. This collection is mentioned in the liner notes of Kevin Conneff's album and I remembered when I got home last night that a friend had recently given me a copy of the book. Unfortunately, no explanation is given regarding the identity of Titharally. One might surmise, given the phrase "the great Titharally-o" that he or she is someone of renown. Perhaps one of our Irish mudcatters can provide a more complete answer.

Richard

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 03:35 PM

And who would that be?

Subject: RE: Kevin Conneff's Flower of Magherally
From: radriano
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:37 AM

Well, this is a first. I'm about to answer my own thread.

The line in question should read:

If I'd the wealth that is possessed by the great Titharally-O

Subject: Flower of Magherally
From: radriano
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 07:56 PM

I just got a copy of Kevin Conneff's album, "The Week Before Easter" which has a version of "The Flower of Magherally" on it. The song is in the DT but Kevin sings a verse I hadn't heard before which I can't quite transcribe. Anyone have an idea what the word in brackets should be?

A working lad although I be with neither wealth or treasure-o
But yet I love my dearest dear, oh I love her beyond measure-o
If I'd the wealth that is possessed by the great [ditherally-o]
I'd give it to the one that I love best, the Flower of Magherally-o


Richard