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Sessions - Thought for 2001
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: The Shambles Date: 08 Oct 01 - 01:51 PM I was looking through this thread and I noticed Mrs Shambles reading over my shouder and nodding in agreement
She said, "who wrote that, I agree with those views".
She was totally lost when I told her that I had written that particular post.......... She never agrees with anything I say and was horified that she just had. All I have to do, in the future to gain her agreement, is to write it down and pretend that someone else wrote it. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Trevor Date: 08 Oct 01 - 09:54 AM Hear hear, Ella. I was beginning to think that I must be missing something. I twang a guitar and sing. I enjoy joining in with tunes when its appropriate, I enjoy joining in with songs, ditto, and I love it when pepole join in with my stuff, when its appropriate. The sessions I go to (and there are probably enough in my neck of the woods to go out every night) all reflect this inclusiveness. Occasionally somebody gets it wrong, like when I was tapping in time with a song and got moaned at by the singer, or a fiddle player was overwhelmed by a couple of box players, but tolerance prevails. The only slight grumble, heard occasionally, is that the instrumentalists get a bit cheesed if they are outnumbered and therefore have to wait a little longer before they get a chance for another set of tunes, but generally speaking people (participants and 'audience') are there to enjoy the music, whatever. And, whoever is 'running' the session - i.e. giving the nod to the next person to play or sing - is sensitive to the needs of the whole gathering so that everybody has a good night out. Or maybe I am missing something! (I would have put 'am' in italics if I'd known how!) |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Ella who is Sooze Date: 08 Oct 01 - 09:23 AM The idea of a session, in the older sense of the word... or at least as I understand it,is... A gathering of musicians, singers, people interested, listeners, dancers etc. Who all get together for an evenings entertainment and craic. Yes, there's lots of tunes, with a nice smattering of songs all mixed in. If someone there who is listening and wants to dance, then that is fine too. After all, the music is for dancing to! And if someone is dancing, then play some tunes that will last long enough for them to finish their dance, or at least until you have finished the set. I go to alot of session, I suppose you could say that I am new generation, but I do believe very firmly that sessions should be an ALL inclusive event. We've even had a story teller getting up in ours and doing his bit too. I sing and play an instrument, and yes sometimes it can be very hard to get people to realise you are singing. But usually a quick... SONG IN THE HOUSE usually sorts it all. I've been to sessions that are majority all instrumental, and some of them have asked me to sing a song, it this session which doesn't usually have a song sang unaccompanied.. but it is a very fast session. I prefer my regular one, a mix of both singers, tunes, sean nos, dancing, and the odd story teller... And socially I prefer the regular one, as you have time to go and chat to the locals and regular drinkers, who then feel confident as the time goes on that they can come and sing a song. Ella |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: GUEST,MC Fat Date: 08 Oct 01 - 08:54 AM I think tollerance is the ideal as smallpiper has said. I for one run mixed sessions in Sheffield but I am also involved or have been involved in music sessions and sing-a-rounds.I enjoy all aspects of these sessions, I can find it real fun to be playing guitar in a music session but I am primarily a singer. I think looking at it logically most musos don't like the idea of waiting their turn as in the sing-a-round senario so they become ignorant and just blast ahead. It shouldn't be a battle of wills but sometimes can be as happened at Tap and Spile this Whitby Folk Week eventually this bunch of semi ignorant musos left after some time with the words 'you win !!'. We didn't start the conflict but 'they' perceived it as that. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: smallpiper Date: 08 Oct 01 - 08:42 AM I don't see why singers have a problem. If you go to a mixed session then as with other musicians if you start something expect to be joined in with, if you want to sing unaccompainied go to a song circle and instrumentalists if you don't want singing go to an instruments only session - problem solved. The trick with a mixed session is for everyone to be as tollerant as possible. I have told a singer to shut up I have also told an instrumentalist to shut up whist a singer was doing her bit so tehre you go evenhandedness rules the day. PS Session at the Hase is tomorrow night(tuesday 9th Oct) see you there! John |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: alanww Date: 08 Oct 01 - 07:53 AM JudeL: I agree with your sentiments. How did your birthday party go at the Song & Ale at Whittlebury (which, incidentally, is another singing only event)? Pity I couldn't make it this year. "Oh, all the money I ever had, I spent it in good company ...!" |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Jon Freeman Date: 07 Oct 01 - 04:20 PM Stewart, maybe you are getting the wrong impression. I have stated my observations and I do have a strong preference for instrumental sessions but I enjoy the other things as well. At the moment I go to: A purely instrumental Irish session. A mixed event although a lot more singing than instrumental which I wouldn't call a session as someone organises who is next. An Irish night which is more of a social event but we have a bit of a session and some people sing. I occasionally attend a folk club on a singers night. The only one I never sing in is the Irish session. I can get something out of all of them. It really is a case of knowing what an event is about and trying to do things that are appropriate for the venue (all of which are very friendly places BTW). Jon |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: The Shambles Date: 07 Oct 01 - 04:15 PM Are you a lumper or a splitter?
Not a thread about singers who play the spoons etc.
It is one that explains why I would not be interested in a music event that specifically excluded anyone. *Smiles*... I last played in a tune session with Graham Moore at Tolpuddle in July. He had no difficulty in singing along very loudly, going la la to all the tunes we played. Doing a pretty good job of drowning out at least one melodeon and most of the other instruments. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Herga Kitty Date: 07 Oct 01 - 03:46 PM Shambles, thank you for clarifying the point of music sessions, which are for joining in, not listening to. As opposed to sessions where people take turns. Mixed sessions probably work best when you have players who sing and singers who play. I get bored in music thrashes because I'm not an instrumentalist, so I generally avoid them. (You can have a separate thread about singer/ percussionists who play spoons and tambourines if you like). Also, Shambles, the Wareham Wail wasn't invented because there was a need for an event that specifically excluded instruments. It is a glorious event in its own right. Don't knock it if you've never been - try coming next year, and see if you enjoy it. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Stewart Date: 07 Oct 01 - 03:38 PM I am beginning to think there is a largely unbridgable divide between singers and instrumentalists analogous to C. P. Snow's "Two Cultures" of science and the humanities. Certainly there are a few people who are able and comfortable to work in both cultures, but the majority seem hopelessly divided between one or the other. Is that too negative a view, or is there a middle ground? S. in Seattle |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Jon Freeman Date: 07 Oct 01 - 03:31 PM Aw come on Liz, admit it - you love melodeons really! Jon |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Liz the Squeak Date: 07 Oct 01 - 02:47 PM The Wareham Wail is the spawn of the Wareham Folk Harvest which was both instrumental and singers. The Folk Harvest sort of died naturally and a few singers decided they wanted to carry on something a little less formal. This has now evolved into the Wail.... It was organised by singers, so they concentrated on singers, knowing that in Dorset there were precious few if any outlets for just singing. I first heard Graham Moore sing at Wareham... just think, if he'd been drowned out by melodeons we might never have had 'The Tolpuddle Man'. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: The Shambles Date: 07 Oct 01 - 02:00 PM Point taken but tune players go to tune sessions to participate. The whole point is to make music together and not (in the better ones) to take turns to do one's party piece.
If you attend you will (hopefully) be encouraged to join in. There is in truth no real need for an audience and you would not be turned from participant to audience, as it would be your choice not to play. If you don't like this set up, you do the right thing in not attending, rather than trying to change it. For there are many that do think that the people at these sessions are just waiting for them to turn up and sing.
Some singers who are used to 'taking their turn' simply do not understand the difference when they encounter a tune session, but are generally treated well when they insist on kindly 'giving us a song' and turning willing participants into an audience. And then having the bare-faced-cheek to complain if any of the instruments join in.
Of course bad manners are not confined to singers but I do not accept some singers often expressed views here that some have that they are an oppressed and misunderstood minority group. I believe that the fault and intolerance is largely with singers who don't play instruments and I have no real idea why they are so intolerant.
I do apologise if I am beginning to sound equally intolerant, but if mixed sessions were so sucessful in the UK, why the need for the Wareham Wail or events that specifically exclude instruments? I have never been at a tune session where a song was stopped or a request to sing one refused..... Well no, I remember one occasion. It was at that point that I left the session. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: JudeL Date: 07 Oct 01 - 01:00 PM Thank you Jeri for expressing things so clearly
Shambles: You made comments about "singers" expecting "musicians" to be an "audience" |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Jeri Date: 07 Oct 01 - 12:38 PM Jon, I meant that in sort of a sarcastic way. ("Well, you can try...") Folks who try to direct what a bunch of people do, who already have a way of doing things they're happy with, inevitably end up frustrating themselves and everyone else. People can often get away with bending rules in tactful ways that others accept or even like, but that "do it my way" approach typically winds up with someone walking away mad. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Jon Freeman Date: 07 Oct 01 - 11:55 AM If you can't stand the way a session operates, you can either try to change it to be the way you want[...] Jeri, that is probably the thing that bugs me most of all. I'd rather people just accept and try to fit into existing setups rather than try to change what a number of people may have been enjoying for years. If a session is not for you or doesn't fit your ways, go and find one that does or start one. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Jeri Date: 07 Oct 01 - 11:17 AM No matter what the session is about, it comes down to manners. There are those who don't take the time to try to figure out the social environment they're in and just barge in and do whatever they want. If they're unwilling to figure out (observe or ask) the way a particular session operates, they're never going to fit in very well, and there are some who don't think they should have to. In a mixed session, tune players can sometimes seize the moment and do tune after tune. Maybe only 3 or 4 people know the tunes, and the rest of the instrumentalists sit around waiting for something they know. In my experience, the occasional "show-off" piece or set is OK, but hogging the session isn't. (In other words, don't keep doing it.) Likewise, songs in a session should be mainly of the participatory kind, with choruses or possibly room for tasteful accompaniment. A ballad or "performance piece" ("everybody listen while I sing") is occasionally OK, but, as above, hogging the session is uncool. Even the "no hogging the session" rule isn't written in stone. Certain guest singers/instrumentalists have been invited to "hog the session" here, and we've enjoyed them. Noodling, or whatever you call it - playing tunes to yourself - is annoying. Not that I haven't done it myself, mind you, but I usually notice little hints like dirty looks and the occasional "will you please stop that!?" comment. Singers can't find keys, and instrumentalists who would like to start another tune can't get the tune in their heads. If it's a mixed session, realise there are tunes not intended for singing and some songs you shouldn't play along with. If it offends you to have to put your instrument down and sing for 5 minutes, you're in the wrong session. Likewise singers who can't tolerate sets of tunes. (If I say they should all bring spoons or buy bones or bodhrans and join in the fun, someone will threaten my life.) It has been my experience that singers get treated rudely more often than instrumentalists. It often comes down to one singer and their song vs. an army of diddly players. Most of the instrumentalists are polite, but all it takes is one or two oblivious or downright rude folks to stomp on a song. I can't recall the reverse (singers stomping on tunes) ever happening, although I'll admit that people seem more likely to talk during tunes than during songs.
It comes down to manners...and tolerance. Just my opinion, and I sing acapella and play fiddle.
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: cyder_drinker Date: 07 Oct 01 - 07:41 AM Most of the sessions I go to are of the "free-for-all" nature. We don't have someone in the "chair" trying to control it, because then it ceases to be a session and becomes a series of small concerts or performances. Which means that the person who goes to play for the fun of playing can't join in (or can but will probably be frowned at). On the other hand, one of the (free-for-all) sessions here is suffering from "over-enthusiastic-guitar-man" who, just when a good momentum of Irish tunes has built up, completely destroys the atmosphere by getting out "101 favourite tunes for buskers" and attempting to play something completely inappropriate. We've tried being subtle, we've tried being blunt. He just won't take the hint. How do you deal with these folks? |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: GUEST,ccokieless Manitas Date: 07 Oct 01 - 07:24 AM I'm not sure 20-30 minutes is enough to gauge a session. At the Irish session I attend on Thursdays we don't get singing until the end of the evening, if at all, but singers are welcome and appreciated. At Irish sessions I used to attend in Holloway, the sort where there was a lock in, singers generally took over from the players towards the end of the evening as they were less likely to be heard by a passing policeman but also because the atmosphere by then was better for singers with the audience being quieter and more mellow. This didn't mean that the dance tunes stopped altogether but the players were appreciative of a chance to rest, drink and chat (quietly!) and would start again if the singing stopped and the landlord had been persuaded by his wife that the police weren't likely to bother us. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Jon Freeman Date: 07 Oct 01 - 07:00 AM Yep Shambles when talking about mostly instrumental sessions, I have found the same. I think part of the problem is that whereas most of us who go there to play together have been in the singer's position at some time or other and tend to give them the quiet we know they need (and is quite correct) but the singers have, in most cases, never been in our position and few seem to understand the session itself, the kick we get out of playing together, how the session can start to buzz, etc. I do of course know singers who may give one song during the evening but overall are there to enjoy the music and love it when a session really gets going bit they seem to be very much the exception. Here's a summary of my overall experience (rather than saying it always works this way): Instrumental session - most allow and even enjoy the occasional song and give the "respect" but get frustrated with long songs and with frequent interruptions. Even the purley instrumental session I go to would allow a singer to complete a song before explaining what the session was about. Mixed sessions - A grave danger of an "us and them" situation, often with singers treating the music as background noise and then demanding silence when they want to sing. Singing sessions - instrumentals unwelcome period. Jon (a singer and an instrumentalist - but not much of a muscian!)
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: John Routledge Date: 07 Oct 01 - 06:39 AM There seems to be a greater concensus at the "centre" than I had imagined which must be good news. The last line of Shambles last post nicely reflects the significance of Kevin Mitchell's last word "maybe" It is all about respect for other performers and different musical styles. Hopefully careful consideration of these issues will continue leading perhaps to the better enjoyment of musical expression by all. John
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Liz the Squeak Date: 07 Oct 01 - 06:36 AM "I stand by my comments. Mixed singing and tune events could be sucessful, but only if and when some singers were generally less egocentric, listened, participated in and prepared to show more tolerance towards other forms of music." Fine, stick to your principles, I agree with most of them, but I must insist that you don't just target singers.... the same argument is valid and applicable to singers and instrumentalists especially the bastard who insists on starting a tune when someone is already halfway through a song, and there is no excuse because the singer was sitting NEXT to the instrumentalist. Mixed events are successful, it happens at folk clubs all over England. Kitty has it on the head. If an event is ADVERTISED as a singing event - e.g., the Wareham Wail, then don't expect a warm welcome for the 48 strong accordion band. If it isn't advertised as anything, expect everything. LTS
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Herga Kitty Date: 07 Oct 01 - 06:10 AM There seems to be a bit of confusion here about what sort of sessions are being discussed. If a session happens spontaneously there aren't really rules, although it's irritating if a small group try to hog the whole thing and not let anyone else in. But it's really not good form to turn up at a pre-advertised event and try to turn it into something else. If a session is advertised as an instrumental session singers shouldn't be surprised if they aren't expected to sing. The Wareham Wail is advertised as a singing event for pre-booked ticket holders only, which is why I suggested at the time that people who weren't into singing events might prefer to spend their weekend somewhere else. There will be a session this evening in the Red Lion at Coleshill (off the A355 between Amersham and Beaconsfield). Mostly tunes but some songs too (mainly accompanied). Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: The Shambles Date: 07 Oct 01 - 05:01 AM If you are new to a session then a few discreet questions or just listening for the first 20 - 30 mins should give you an idea if songs are acceptable, tolerated or ignored.
Then you just plough on and insist on singing anyway............?
Some singers do. I am not suggesting Liz that you would do this but I have seen many, many occasions when this has happened.
And it has ben tolerated on every occasion. That is all I am asking for, a little understanding of the other side's view. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: The Shambles Date: 07 Oct 01 - 04:41 AM Many plainly instrumental sessions I have attended, where people go to play TOGETHER, have domonstrated to me at least that the people who go there to play tunes (who may also be well able and willing to sing), are most tolerant of singers without instruments.
Those singers who turn up and insist on singing at these events, do not appreciate that it is only that the instrumental players present who could sing themselves, chosing not to sing at these events, that allows the 'singer' to do so.
Instrumental players will usually quitely listen or join in singing choruses and are usually quite happy to do this and become the audience for the occasional song.
We have recently had the example of the Wareham Wail an event entirely for singing, where instruments would not be expected to turn up and merely asking the question was met with some hostility.
I would not dream of turning up at this event or any other 'plainly' singing and insist on playing a set of tunes. I wonder how tolerant the singers would be, if I did insist on doing this? For all the good reasons that some singers give when they insist sing at tune sessions.
It sometimes appears to me that some singers finding themselves at a tune session where no one sings, feel that is almost their DUTY to insist on singing.
I stand by my comments. Mixed singing and tune events could be sucessful, but only if and when some singers were generally less egocentric, listened, participated in and prepared to show more tolerance towards other forms of music. It is this is not possible then they should stick to their singing only events. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Liz the Squeak Date: 07 Oct 01 - 03:54 AM "I don't think that combined song and tune session work. This is due to singers needing to turn talented and willing musicians into an audience whilst not seeing that this is what they are doing or the frustrations that this causes." "I was not of course suggesting that singers were not musicians. Just making a distinction. I should have stuck to the term instrumentalists." Er, Shambles..... I think you were!!!! You were also suggesting that instrumentalists are incapable of being an audience and don't sing..... Would you take a kazoo to play along with a Mozart opera? He wrote tunes and words, but he doesn't expect everyone to sing along... Most people can't. Especially with the Magic Flute, and the aria from the Queen of the Night. However... I CAN get those notes, and if we ever meet up I will show you! LTS |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Steve in Idaho Date: 06 Oct 01 - 07:50 PM Weird - where I play, and LTS had a great piece of advice (watch and listen for the first bit - or ask). If the session is at an open space we just go around the circle. If the session is at one of our homes - we just go around the circle. If there are new folks we do our best to make them welcome and offer them the same opportunities as the rest of us. For the most part all of us sing and play with equal fun - and our "style" is to sing a verse, let someone do an instrumental, sing a verse, let someone else do an instrumental, sing a verse, play it myself, sing a verse - well you get the idea. Everybody gets an opportunity to do both. Up front whoever chooses the song makes the rules of who sings or doesn't sing along. Just be polite. All of my training is in Grange Halls and back porches and I consider myself a fun musician. If it isn't fun - I'll be polite and listen, then leave for home. BTW - The end of the song is announced with the extension of the foot towards the center of the circle - or a dip of the guitar head to the center - and the end is coming. If you forget this part you get to play another tune, or at least start one. And if it doesn't go all smooth - big deal. One thing I don't do well with is large Egos. Usually moves me on to more fun times. The style we play is called the "Bluegrass" style. But we play a lot of different music. Just my 2 cents worth :-) Steve |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Jeri Date: 06 Oct 01 - 06:09 PM Intrumentalists obviously aren't any more tolerant than singers. Singers without instruments have to stop and be an "audience" just like intrumentalists without voices do - it works both ways. We've got a mixed session here that works pretty well, but the song to tune ratio varies with who shows up. We also do quite a few songs WITH accompaniment. I wouldn't do long acapella songs with no choruses though - that would try everyone's patience. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: The Shambles Date: 06 Oct 01 - 04:54 PM I was not of course suggesting that singers were not musicians. Just making a distinction. I should have stuck to the term instrumentalists.
I also hope that all musicians would appreciate and understand each others forms of music.
However, the first few posts of this thread tend to confirm the impression I have that singers are less tolerant than instrumentalists.
Singing without instruments is a perfectly valid and fine form of musical expression. Does the intolerance to other forms, shown by some of those who prefer this form of music, suggest there may be a question over their musicianship? |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: 53 Date: 06 Oct 01 - 04:51 PM no comment. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Stewart Date: 06 Oct 01 - 04:17 PM I think it is a question of musicianship. I am a bit troubled when Shambles refers to instrumentalists as musicians, while implying that singers are not. As a singer with 7 years of college/university-level classical voice training I consider myself a musician (I have also had formal violin instruction). I also know other singers with no formal voice training who are also good musicians. Unfortunately, I know many other singers with no formal training who I would not classify as musicians. I think the same thing can be said of instrumentalists, although most of the latter have had some formal training and tend to be better musicians. However, I have also heard some instrumentalists who I would not call musicians. Of course it is a matter of degree. I would think (hope) good musicians, whether they be singers or instrumentalists, would appreciate each other's form of music. S. in Seattle |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: weepiper Date: 06 Oct 01 - 03:41 PM Most of the sessions I go to involve 'the rising generation' - most of us are both players and singers. This tends to mean it just depends on what everybody feels like as to which way the evening goes, but more often than not recently it will be mixed. Most of the sessions I go to also tend to be in quite noisy pubs so generally unaccompanied (solo) singing will just get lost. But we frequently end up making them shut up and listen with multiple harmonies! |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Oct 01 - 03:04 PM Song sessions and tune sessions can work very well without any kind of formal structure, and that can go for the case where you have the odd song in a predominently tune session.
But I think if you're having a mixed session where the tunes and the songs have an equal place, it's probably best to have someone in the chair saying "You next?", with an inbuilt sense of balancing the evening, and bringing in the newcomers and so forth.
As for the problem of people joining in when you'd rather they didn't (or the other way round), I think it's a good idea not to rely too much on telepathy. Say what you want, and that is probably what you'll get. |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: The Shambles Date: 06 Oct 01 - 02:58 PM It would be quite nice if singers actually listened while tunes were being played. For they usually talk loudly during them, just waiting for them to end so they can sing.
If the tunes have words please sing along. You may not be heard above the instruments however, but that would never do would it?
I don't think that combined song and tune session work. This is due to singers needing to turn talented and willing musicians into an audience whilst not seeing that this is what they are doing or the frustrations that this causes.
If you do not want instruments to play along, don't go to a session were there are musicians wanting to play TOGETHER.
I am sorry if this sounds like intolerance. I am not intolerant in the slightest. I like to both sing and play. I am just tired of the intolerance of singers who appear unable to see the issue from the musician's point of view.
I have never seen musicians tell singers to 'piss off', but plenty of times when it would have been understandable if they had. Instrumental players are just more tolerant, it would seem? |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Stewart Date: 06 Oct 01 - 02:38 PM This brings up an interesting situation that I am only beginning to understand. I am an intstrumentalist (fiddle), but am also a singer. Most sessions I go to are just instrumnental (Irish sessions, other fiddle sessions) or just singing (song circles). While they may tolerate an occassional mix, it is not the usual thing. I have tried with not much success to organize a mixed session. It seems that most musicians are divided into two camps - instrumental or singing and do not want to mix the two. I just enjoy the music and would like to have a mix. Regarding the problem brought up in the first post, I think it is just a matter of sensitivity and common good sense. On some songs I do not mind an instrumental back up if it is done with taste by a good musician, but other songs I prefer to do unaccompanied. Perhaps you should make that preference known before you start the song. And I agree with the advice of LTS above. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: Liz the Squeak Date: 06 Oct 01 - 02:13 PM I have difficulty in starting a song when there are people still fiddling around with instruments (and Manitas is one who should know better!!!), which is why I didn't sing at the Jug back in June..... If you are in an accepted mixed session, then the musicians should have the manners to not play whilst others are singing, after all, we don't sing whilst they are playing, and I know plenty of 'tunes' that have words to them!! If you are new to a session then a few discreet questions or just listening for the first 20 - 30 mins should give you an idea if songs are acceptable, tolerated or ignored. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: alanww Date: 06 Oct 01 - 02:07 PM Hi John Yes I agree. As a singer, on many occasions I have been put off singing by musicians, who at first quietly and then a bit louder, joining in the tune of a supposedly unaccompanied song. I have sometimes felt that I was singing along with the musicians who start controlling the pace and volume of the song. That's obviously not on! Having said that, not many musicians are that insensitive! But once or twice when it does happen and I decide that I don't like it, I have walked over to them in the middle of a song and wagged my finger at them!! It works! But it is a bit aggressive, I'm afraid. "Three jolly coachmen sat in a Bristol tavern ...!" |
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Subject: Mixed Sessions - Thought for 2001 From: John Routledge Date: 06 Oct 01 - 10:26 AM The difficulty in holding mixed sessions is accurately highlighted by this quote from Kevin Mitchell - a very small part of a Living Tradition interview. He is referring to the rising generation of musicians. "Great players of course,but thats all some of them want to do - play. They don't seem to know the tradition, the "rule" that you give people space,that you put down your instrument and listen to an unaccompanied song,maybe" This of course pre-supposes mixed sesions are a good idea in the first place. Happy Music and Song to you all. John |
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