BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 10:38 PM

Thankyou for your suggestions. I live in Scotland, i think the connexions service is only in England just now? And i have heard some things about it that make me feel distinctly uncomfortable. Call me paranoid, but there seems to be an Orwellian overtone to the whole operation, there's a website that i'll post a link to explaining it all better.

I left school at 16 with no qualifications, so i can't get into college very easily - i'm trying, though :). I'm looking into access courses at the moment.

Thankyou again for your concern and suggestions!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:14 AM

16-18 yr olds are entitled to go on a training course or college course. The job centre would help you find one suitable. You would then get £30 per week as an Educational Maintenance Award to help with fares and books. It is also paid to encourage children to stay on at school and get some qualifications that may secure work in the future.Would that be any help to you?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST,Elfcall
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:26 AM

Blissfully Ignorant - cannot help with most of you problems I'm afraid but I think from 1/10 - employers will have to pay MW for 16-18 yos. It may of course just cause more problems for people of your age who fall between many regulations. Do you have a Law Centre or CABx close by who should have, or be able to refer you to, a welfare benefits worker?

Here in east London we are in the process of setting up a specific young peoples' service but we ar elimited to who we can see.



Elfcall

PS I have not heard many good reports from the Connexions service but they may be worth trying - they may well provide some form of advocacy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 09:46 PM

I am 17, live in a geographically and socially isolated rural area, and have neither any form of transport apart from the ridiculously overpriced local buses nor the funds to move elsewhere. After looking for work constantly for a year and finding none, i finally went to the job centre to ask about jobseekers allowance, and was told, in no uncertain terms, that i could not claim until i was 18. I persevered, and after being passed on from beaurocrat to beaurocrat was eventually told that i could claim under severe hardship.I live with my father, who is a student, and on his income alone we have just enough to keep body and soul together and a roof over our heads, so i felt i might qualify for this.

Most of the people i came into contact with at the job centre were perfectly pleasant, sympathetic, and helpful. However there were also a disproportianate number of socially and intellectualy impotent wankers (sorry, but that's the only way to describe them) hiding under the skirts of a faceless beaurocracy and seemingly trying to make my life as hard as possible. Fortunately, i my claim was handled by one of the nice ones, who did everything in his power to assist me, even to the extent of filling out the forms, which i'm terrible at. My claim was processed, or so i thought until three weeks later and no money had appeared. I called the job centre, and spoke to a woman who, if i was feeling,less charitable, i might have called a heartless bitch, and who told me that they had no records of me at all. After the conversation ended, all i could manage was thirty whole seconds of dumbfounded silence followed by a stream of expletives that would make a whore blush. I called again the next day, and was again informed that i could not claim, which illicited much the same reaction.

The overall feeling i get is that the Jobcentre is trying its damndest to make me give up and go rot in a corner somewhere. I still have no money, there is still no work, and even if there was my employer would be under no legal obligation to pay me the minimum wage, as i am under 18. What exactly are 16-18 year olds supposed to do? Stay in school, i suppose, have their soul destroyed AND be impoverished? Perhaps the 16-18s should form an alliance with the over 50s :)

So, in short, the Jobcentre has been distinctly unhelpful to me personally. It has, however, helped many of my friends who are a couple of years older than me get out of the proverbial gutter and into work. I think it all depends on what age you are- too old, or too young, and you're screwed.

And i have worked in the past when i was staying with my mother and payed taxes and NI, so i'm not a complete scrounger! :)

As for the asylum seeker problem? There but for the grace of god go i; some people may be best to remember this. An old saying, but a true one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:51 PM

I totally agree with yah how come ya go to shops in bham and see them at cash desk how the hell do they get jobs and the ayslum seekers take the piss as well duh retards it aint easy for people like us who gotta pay taxes for them bloody retards

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 04:11 AM

PS, all the stuff in the shop that I work in is made by indians as well!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 03:59 AM

Your exacly right kit, them Samarlians are rubbish, and i reckon they just started a civil war in their country as an excuse to come over here, and nick our jobs.
And them bloody asylum seekers, do you know how much they get?
they get about a thousand quid a week!, and free cars, phones, DVD players and things like that.And half of them can't even bloody speak english properley!

There was one of them Samarlians on Big Brother, a right miserable bugger he was, he wouldent drink alcohol, wouldn't smoke, did not fight, and was praying 5 times a day, when the fights broke out he went to bed, if they can't join in with our culture , they shouldn't bother coming here, bloody Samarlians!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST,Kits
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:13 PM

sorry but i am indian and i am not racist i was born here i am on about the Ayslum seekers and people like smaralinas how come they get good jobs quick well i heard about Ayslum seekers get driving lessons paid for and get more money than people on the dole that sucks man the government is messed up here as with indian people they work hard most shops eg Top Shop Levis jeans are made from indian factories and they work hard Aylum seekers are raiding the country man heard that more of them are gonna come ere

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Davetnova
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:45 AM

Kits- Don't give up. Been there done it. The job club is something you should try. I was suffering from depression to the point where I didn't want to work, I just wanted to be left alone. I was co-erced into the job club and resented it greatly. So much so that I enrolled in a college course to get away from it. That was fifteen years ago. My life went in a much more positive direction and apart from the usual short period out of work after university I haven't been out of work since. I found that being busy and having regular social interaction with the others on my course were the most effective treatments I ever had for depression. Good luck

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:17 AM

I had absolutely no help at all with the job centre. When I graduated they didn't even know what a graphic designer was. They'd find me jobs that include the word design in it, so it meant they sent me infor for jobs like, electrical interface designer... duh what???

After a year of finding my own jobs to apply for they called me in for an 'interview'. One of their condescending talking down to sessions. The 'advisor' told me, that maybe I ought to start thinking of doing something else for a career.

At which point I lost it totally in the middle of the job centre, and shouted at the silly person.... look I didn't spend 4 years at university to sweep cack (insert rude word here) up off the road.
I was determind to find a graphic design job and
A few weeks later I had an interview for a design job, got it and have been a graphic designer since. The satisfaction I got from going in there to tell the 'advisor' I'd found my own job thank you very much, was brilliant.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't give up on your goal and ignore the silly twits in their ivory towers, with their I'm all right jack attitudes - you'll eventually get a job. I did join a 'job seekers club, which was the best thing about that place. It was an independant advice centre affiliated to the job centre (but away from the job centre). They were a fab bunch of people, who would advise you on application forms, and they helped more than the wallies in the job centre. What's more, they cared about whether or not you got a job. It consisted of other job seekers getting together to help each other and it was a nice network of people all trying to find a good job.

Try asking the job centre if there is a similar project, you'll get more support from your fellow job seekers than the job centre. Plus there are all sorts of courses you can attend (most free or discounted) when you are on job seekers allowances. Try making the most of those and building up your skills. That was the reason I couldn't get a job. I ended up working for 6months free at a small design place just to get the experience in.

Best of luck, and don't be down - go to the local library and ask them for info too. I think what I've been on about sounds similar to what Jeanie was talking about - I went to the similar thing about 10 years ago. If you can find out at the job centre about those, they are really supportive and encouraging to go to. Mr Red and Gareth both mentioned it, that's what it was called Job Club. Certainly the best thing and was good to go to.

I quite enjoyed my year off after university - I don't think I could have worked anyway I was so done in after 4 years slogging away at uni.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:46 AM

Of course they help - if they were all closed down, there'd be even more people competing for jobs !

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 09:37 PM

PS-He was probably driving one of them free cars, that the goverment give to asylum seekers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 09:33 PM

Yep, your right Kits, lets send all them darkies back, theyv'e got a right cheek, coming over here nicking all our jobs.
And parking spaces [just last week I was in ASDA car park, and a car pulled into the parking space that I was going to park in, the driver got out, and you guessed it, a darkie!]
bloody coloureds, send em all back!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST,kits
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:15 PM

I am replying to youre response and have been out of work a long time and feel i have lost a lot of confidence the job centres dont really help people at all i have been feeling depressed and suical at times and i was disapointed cause i did some agnecy work and couldnt do a computer course i wanted to badly feel let dow a lot by job centres just amazed how people from abroad gets jobs easy than people who who have lived in uk longer

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 12:03 PM

A few years ago, a Columbus replica ship sailed into Dublin, and local people were allowed on board. One of the sailors - dressed in authentic 16th-century gear, but looking so comfortable in it that you wouldn't notice - showed me around.

The captain's cabin, with a cross carved in the door and a crucifix hung on the wall, the deck where they kept the goats and the vegetables; the whole place was wildly authentic, soaked with the Catholicism of Columbus's day.

Mad with envy, I asked him how he'd got the job. "I just finished my degree and went down to the Jobcentre," he said. I asked him what his degree was in.

"Theology."

So someone in the Jobcentre had a sense of humour.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: okthen
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 03:47 AM

If he's on medication for depression, he should be eligible for ( if not already receiving) psychiatric help, and within the psychiatric department there are people trained to help in this kind of situation.
I would suggest the Jobcentre is not really the way to go, he sounds as if he has little self-confidence, and would need someone to give him moral support in a jobcentre.
Good luck, it aint easy, but there is help out there. You could try the claimants union (I don't know if they still exist) or citizens advice bureau, these may be online (jobcentre may be online).

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 07:56 PM

John, thank you for asking. He did go to the job centre but all he did was look around, he didn't make an appointment or talk to anyone. He's still depressed, and even this was a step - albeit a baby step. I was hopeful for a while but it may be that it's just been too long and he's too convinced that he wouldn't be able to handle a job. I don't know that he'll ever pluck his courage up to go out and get one, or if he'd be able to handle an interview.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 01:10 PM

any luck with the job yet guest?
some companys such as the tool shop B+Q are positive about employing over 50's, also why not consider volountry work until a proper job comes up, it gives you skills, plus some charitys will even train you in an NVQ for free while you work there, not sure which ones, contact your local volounteer centre for proper details, good luck.john

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 02:59 PM

My experience was that Jobcentres were a waste of space but Manpower could actually deliver something that left me with more than I would get on benefit after paying my fares.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 07:34 PM

And in Australia recently, someone took a can of petrol and matches into a Centrelink office...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 04:43 PM

I also worked in a jobcentre and I can't recall the staff being uncaring at all.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST,seen it from both sides....
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 07:00 PM

Having worked in a job centre, I can agree with Paul above....the vast majority of staff were like myself, genuinely interested in helping people find suitable work/training/college courses. The majority of our customers were honest, friendly people.

The minority of our staff were obstructive, objectionable,lazy and uncivil.

The minority of our customers were agressive, threatening, dangerous and anti social.

London offices experience at least one assault on staff by a customer per week....ranging from stabbing,punching and battering of the former with a heavy implement.

No member of staff has ever attacked a customer.........

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Gareth
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 06:56 PM

Mr Red - Snap !!!

I must confess, some years ago our own Jobcentre Staff, had not even heard of the "Travel to interview scheme costs scheme" - Untill I produced a copy of the regulations.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 05:56 PM

Don't mock the Jobcentres - they work very hard.
It is not easy trying to figure out how to make mistakes between departments so that the delays out-run the une,mplyment and the client gives-up chasing the bit of money outstanding.   Giving clients the facts while witholding essential information. Writing letters from a Wolverhampton "claims" office to (say) Worcester clients when YOU know the Wolverhampton clients are dealt with from Worcester (we don't want angry personal visitation do we?). And they have to keep a straight face when you let on you fully understand they are doing it if not all that they do. If you want a few things to watch-out for go-to cresby.com and webmail me from there. I will prepare a few of my experiences that might serve as a warning.

On the plus side I made a point of getting to Job Club or the modern equivalent now they are out of favour. There is one aspect of work most of us ignore. We are thrown together daily as an unlikely crew with little choice of social compatability and have to tolerate those we would not choose as friends. It buffets our psychie and can annoy but it toughens-up the sensitivities and and hones the social skills. Job Club certainly does some of that - I can tell you - keeps that side of the jobskill sharp. You also get advice and free use of facilities like computers, fax and phone calls (if they are free you make more use of them & don't rush them). Job Centres will let you make work related calls - insist if necessary.

AND you might guess a lot of my time was used showing (or doing ) the techie computer bits to organisers and job-seekers alike.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 07:27 AM

It's interesting to see negative comments about job centre staff. I used to work in job centres and found taht most of the people there really tried to help those signing on. Even the people who would try really hard to cause hassle, threaten staff, shout abuse etc...

Certainly the idea that staff don't know about people's rights, or care, seems interesting. I spent a lot of time helping people undersatnd the VERY limited powers of the employment service, helped others establish their identity so they could claim benefits, and helped many look for work in a constructive way. I was far from alone in such endevours.

Certainly there were pepople working at the job centre who really didn't care about others. But I encouter similar people when I go into supermarkets, garages, in local government, all over the place. And there were certainly a fair few people I met signing on who were making illicit claims for benefit, steering as far clear of work as they could, and / or being nasty as hell. I think it's just people being people.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 10:18 AM

They prevent a folkie friend of mine from being unemployed - he works in one. !

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 08:04 PM

I know how he feels - I'm beginning to wonder how much longer I can stand to wait around for the hearse, and if I will run out of money first.

Keeping my spirits up with music - I figure if I try to learn to play a few new songs that I like - I will be able to hang around for a few more years before I run out of songs...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 07:55 PM

Well, there are some differing opinions here but it seems like the Jobcentres are trying to get their act together and really help people. He is gathering up his courage to go after I gave him a pep talk about how he could do it - I hope he gets encouragement and not a lecture. His previous experience with Jobcentres (they were called something else then) were that they were just a place where they had lists of jobs and you applied - there wasn't really any counseling or encouragement. I sure hope it's different now. I think some kind of dignified work that would get him out of the house would be beneficial, and even minimum wage would give him a bit more spending money.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 07:02 PM

Just The Same in Australia...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 06:48 PM

From Experience - No they don't.

TIP - Learn your rights, that staff neither know them, nor are bothered.

Yes ! It was the so called, 'highly trained' disability advisor who sent yours truley for a driving job - Angina Pectralis, Diabetes 2, Tintinus and Colour Blindness - My O my - What chance had I of passing an HGV or PSV medical !

Waste of my time, waste of potential employers time !

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 05:55 PM

All I ever got from a Jobcentre was a lecture on how I must look for work and not sit back and enjoy the luxury of unemployment benefit. As I had just been made redundant from a £35K job and was paying my ex more than the weekly benefit out of my redundancy money I didn't exactly find that helpful.

The first thing that I learned was that you will only be considered for a permanent job if you are currently in employment. Answer: get a temp job paying the national minimum then bullshit a lot to potential employers about doing contract work. Luckily I was still a stripling in my early 40s at the time so it only took 18 months to get back into a real job and another 4 years before I was back on my previous salary, with my redundancy payout long gone and praying for a couple of good bonuses to clear my credit cards.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: Jeanie
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 05:22 PM

As well as the Jobcentre, draw his attention to this organisation:
FiftyOn
for job vacancies around the UK and advice on health, finance, career change, cv writing, self-employment, openings for voluntary work as a way of (re)gaining experience and confidence, and much more - all geared to people 50 +

Unfortunately, I don't think any job or life situation can ever be guaranteed "stress-free" - but a lot of it is down to the person, not the actual job or situation itself, and is therefore in his control, if he learns to see it that way. It sounds good that he says he wants to get his life together - because in the end, only he can.

He is fortunate to have someone wanting to help him as you are - but do take care of yourself, too. When helping someone with depression in this situation, it is very easy for the helper to get sucked in and taken up and down on an exhausting (and often fruitless) roller coaster ride (I speak from experience here !!) You need to set limits.

All good wishes to you both !

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: smallpiper
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 04:19 PM

yep its real and they even run schemes for people like him to help him gain confidence and to see exactly what type of work would be suitable for him. Thye will even pay him a little bit more if he attends a course.

Subject: BS: UK Jobcentres - Do They Help?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 04:01 PM

I have a friend in the UK who has been out of work for a long time - in fact he hasn't worked in so long that his confidence is nil and he has given up. He receives benefits (income support) but it is the very minimum. He has had a lot of personal tragedies in his life and suffers from depression, for which he takes medication, but he still wouldn't be able to deal with a lot of stress on a job. He wants to get his life together and I advised him to go to the local Jobcentre. According to their website they have evolved considerably recently and provide individual counseling and help tailored to people like him - over fifty with no recent job skills. Is this real or is it hype? Has anybody had any positive experience with Jobcentres?