BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:07 PM

Is your First-born small enough to send cheaply by mail bobbi? Good luck. Keep us posted. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: GUEST,bobbi
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 07:04 PM

Thanks for the welcome, Prinet admirers! I have sent my info and interest in to the www.lebrecht.co.uk website for purchase of a print of "Kreutzer Sonata", but haven't heard anything back yet. They weren't an ordinary print/poster warehouse as they seemed to want my first born before they would allow me to even request the print. I haven't heard anything back from them; perhaps they have an exclusive on the print and don't want a copy hanging in someone's home just for pleasure, not for profit. Interesting that one painting is drawing so much attention, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 01:21 AM

I get the impression that they went quite a way beyond the "Fond Kiss" stage, Naemanson, but thanks for your contribution.
Perhaps they kissed fondly but innocently, straightened their clothes, righted the stool and went on with the duet like nothing happened. Maybe some smitten musicians do. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Naemanson
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:53 PM

Look here for a modern folk music interpretation of the painting.

More information about Fred and Julia, i.e. Castlebay.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 06:07 PM

Donuel, I thought I was imagining the name Mudcat on the piano! I Thought it was one of those "believe it or not" moments. Clever! Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:52 AM

Donuel -

I blew yours to a very large view on my monitor to take a quick look at how the pixels had clotted, so I did in fact miss the brand name in my first look. Going back, I'm not sure exactly which "blob" I saw that looked like it might have been the leftover, but I think it was only a few pixels, a bit to the right of your nameplate.

There's some additional blur/smear in the Lebrecht thumbnail that doesn't seem to be in the one you worked, so I'm inclined to think now that the one you worked probably wasn't from that later thumbnail.

It never pays to look too closely at one that's been "worked." It gets hard to tell the imagination from the details.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 10:45 AM

Of course I used the link I found here...but the "remnant" you speak of was my own doing...If you look closely you will see I wrote the word Mudcat as the brand name of the piano.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 05:41 PM

I've done a very limited amount of poking about at a few museums that might have inherited a painting from "Prince Luitpold of Bavaria," but although there are a few dozen possible ones to check, they semm not generally to have posted indexes of their holdings. The few that might have "searchable" postings on the web all appear to use "fuzzy search" so that when you enter "Prinet" as a search term you get all the results that might include "Prinet" OR "Print" OR "Parent" (all three contract to prnt for typical fuzzy search) so any possible result is buried among lists of every piece of paper one can buy from the museum gift shop.

There's also the slight handicap that most hits for any museum will be from travel agencies who's only info is that they can get you a ticket to get there. It's not always evident that they actually know where "there" is - but "they'll look it up" if want buy the ticket.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 05:04 PM

This continues to be such an interesting search.
Welcome in bobbi.
It would be fun to find out where the original is wouldn't it. Hildebrand is so happy to finally have such a good copy. He's thought about the picture on and off for about 50 years.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 03:19 PM

bobbi -

Depending of course on the amount of damage, a ripped print often can be fairly easily "put back together." With fairly simple methods, my SO's mother's antique photos yielded good pictures of ancient relatives that originally arrived with missing ears, coke-stained eyeballs, and one with an 8 inch long x 2 inch wide crack in the middle of a 19 x 14 print.

But the good print we finally found will be a lot easier starting point. I'd still like to know who owns the original now, and why it's so well hidden.

Donuel -

I haven't looked closely enough to be really sure, but there appears to be a "remnant" on your enlargement that suggests someone may have used the same "thumbnail" I found at Lebrecht. A tiny bit of gold on the front of the piano above the keyboard looks like what I took to be part of the "watermark" on the Lebrecht thumbnail. The one you used for your enlargement may be from the same source, and someone who posted it earlier may have "cleaned" it to remove the watermark(?).

I haven't looked to see if there's any "metadata" in either of the .jpg files that might give a more positive indication, but if they are from the same source, that one stock photo may be an exclusive. It's likely that Lebrecht would have a © embedded in their file, and it may have survived previous manipulation of the image, or not.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: GUEST,bobbi
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 03:26 AM

I've been searching for this painting for about a year and I finally found a black and white copy of it in "Advertising, reflections of a century" by BryanHolme (Viking Press, 1982. The picture, however, was ripped from a previous borrower's carelessnes; but with the book's help, I found the painter and with YOUR help, I found that lovely print on line. Thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:16 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/romance.jpg

this is already about 8 by 11

I enlarged it from the 3 inch sample early in this thread.

I have made many perfume ads of my own. But it would be fatuous of me to repost them here.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:09 AM

Yes thank you Donuel. I posted a reply but somehow it disappeared into the void.

I also mentioned that I thought naked intellect tastfully decorated with a frilly blouse was a good idea. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:22 AM

Good job, Donuel. I tried to take it a bit further (6 x 7, but @ 150 dpi) and I think I blew a bit of it out a little.

I wonder what the "real" photo looks like, but as they say, "If you have to ask..."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:40 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/romance.jpg

I enlarged the version above for printing.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:30 PM

Joy -


It was their INTELLECTS, not the frilly blouses!!!

Fortunately, I was shy and they were cautious. It was in Kansas after all, and we've since seen many times what our attorneys general think of Romeo and Juliet.

The current one, Herr Kline, is pleading to the Supreme Court that there are no young lovers. "They're all YOUNG #@$%!! CRIMINALS."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 06:45 PM

Who would have thought that this request would have turned up such a wonderful adventure.

John, So naughty of those History teachers to tease you like that with their frilly blouses and formal suits. Wouldn't you think just one of them might have given out a few little kisses. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 06:09 AM

A presumedly excellent photo of the original "Kreutzer Sonata" painting by Prinet is available at Lebrecht Music and Arts Photography. Go to the second page of "results" at this link, and in the second row down you'll find an offering of the painting as a "stock photo." This is the Tabu ad without the Tabu bottle.

Elsewhere on the site it indicates that the available file has a Download size of 2,243 Kb, and uncompresses to 16,601 Kb. This would be an "excellent quality" image, probably suitable for printing the painting about 28 inches tall at 150 dpi, or larger with lesser resolution.

I did not check out the "commercial realities" of the site, as I have an aversion to clicking anything labelled "add to basket." Those with sufficient resources for investigation of such things, or more curiosity than I have, are invited to inquire further at the site.

The "thumbnail," which can be copied and saved, is "watermarked" to prevent its use. It would require considerable detail work to remove the watermark, and it is unlikely that it could be "worked up" to much beyond about 5x7 inch, if that, without considerable fuzziness. The thumbnail shows a bit of grunge and grime in the background, but it's hard to say whether it's due to the small size of the thumbnail or whether it might be present in the available large image (and on the original painting).

An incidental new bit of information is that several newly appearing sources quote a reference to "Prinet's painting of the Kreutzer Sonata" in Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita. For some unfathomable reason, all of the English language sites where the quote appears seem to be on university physics department servers. Perhaps "Lolita" is the code name for some new piece of physics apparatus??????

About 30% of the returns by MSN search for "Prinet+Kreutzer+Sonata currently are to this thread. Perhaps our repeated searchings have produced the other newer hits.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:34 PM

Good find, bill -

Until now, the best link I'd found between Prinet and the painting was a Kreutzer Sonata at a Russian site I couldn't get anything translated from. This one (linked earlier in the thread) appears to be a "study," as it's pretty crudely done - not Prinet's style from the bit I've found.

I've got a Russian dictionary, but I couldn't make a dent in the text. Google translator can't even "transliterate" the Cyrillic characters.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: bill kennedy
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:52 PM

There was an exhibition that toured France in 1986 and 87 of Prinet's work and a catalog raisonee of sorts was produced to accompany it. on p. 51 (my translations from the French will be in parantheses) it shows

La Sonate a Kreutzer (Kreutzer Sonata) 1901
Col. Parfums Dana (?) USA

Coll. Part. USA (PRivate Collection, USA)
Exp. Salon de 1901 no 750 (exhibited in the Paris Salon of 1901)
Bibl. "Mademoiselle", mai 1915, magazine americain (apparently there was an article or print of the painting in the May 1915 issue of Mademoiselle magazine)

Cette oeuvre vendue le 17 Juillet 1901 au Prince Regent de Bavaiere, est utilisee par les parfums DANA (USA) comme etiquette du parfume TABOU.
"La Sonate a Kreutzer" est connue aux Etats-Unis sous le nom "The Violonist" (sic) depuis 1941. Javier Sewrra, Directeur de Dana Perfume, invente TABOU a Barcelone en 1932, inspire par Totem et Taboo de Freud. Ce parfum est achete par les americaines des Caraibes particulierement a la Havanne.
En 1983, dans "The Revisionist Art Calendar" l'envoi de decembre est illustre par "The Violonist" de Rene Prinet.

(This work sold on July 17 1901 to the Prince Regent of Bavaria (This would have been Luitpold) and was used by Dana Perfumes as a trademark for the perfume Tabu.
"The Kreutzer Sonata" has been known in the US as "The Violinist" since 1941. Javier Serra, Director of Dana Perfume, invented Tabu in Barcelona in 1932, inspired by Freud's "Totem and Taboo". The perfume was bought by the Americans in the Caribbean, especially in Havana. (I really don't quite know what this means but I think that's what is says!)
In 1983, in "The Revisionist Art Calendar" December is illustrated by "the Violinist" of Rene Prinet.)

Hope this helps, I have not had any luck tracking down the Revisionist Art Calendar, but the catalog I am quoting from that may be in an art library near you has a nice color reproduction. It's obvious that an artist working for Dana Perfumes (which went out of business in about 1987, right after this exhibition!) played with the image for the ad. I don't know what happened to the painting as Dana Perfumes was part of a larger company that went bankrupt, it may have been sold off or may be in some executives home somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:00 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 09:25 PM

Aw Joy -

I had a couple of teachers who always wore quite proper tailored suites (and frilly blouses) that I really wanted to have grab me and kiss me. In the middle of English and World History classes even.

I think I admired their ... intellects.

Big Sigh ...

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:05 PM

I see what you mean, John. Two years back I had a nice time extending my search and collecting all sorts of "passionate kisses" I kept thinking about the one that started my search. Regardless of the work as a painting, the image it shows is so very - well passionate. I mean you rather expect that a naked man might be inclined to kiss you but a teacher, or music partner, in a formal outfit - in the middle of a duet! That's hot! Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:07 AM

A quickie recheck with Google image search finds a couple of additional Prinet works, and information that he specialized in landscapes. There are one or two pencil/chalk sketches up in the result that I don't recall seeing when searching a couple of years back, but nothing very interesting.

I did chance upon at least one passionate kiss:

Jean Coraboeuf: Pygmalian. The page will open on page 4 in French. You can click on the Brit flag to get an English version, but that will take you back to page one. On page 4, the second picture is definitely your passion kiss. Click the picture to enlarge twice for best effect.

It's an obvious ripoff of the Jean-Léon Gérôme work at the Met, from about 50 years earlier, although neither gives a date that I found. But a bit more "sexified."

Previous searches for Prinet found him only as "René Xavier Prinet" but one new Google hit says he had a middle name: "René François Xavier Prinet" so maybe we need to look for Frankie Prinet instead of just for Rene.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 02:39 AM

Joy -

It has been a year, but my recollection is that most of the stuff at that site looked like someone had scanned newspaper and magazine pages. I wouldn't expect a particularly pleasing - or authentic - product from them.

What they copied may well have been a "spin-off" of the original poster, possibly even from a newspaper or other lower quality print rather than from a slick-copy magazine.(?)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:33 PM

Just took a look at "Passionate Kiss at the Piano". Hmmmmmmm!
John - We thought that this one looks like a copy of the original idea without the movement. The stool isn't falling and the figures are static. Could it be a photograph do you think? That would explain the position of the stool. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:21 PM

Missed the revival of this thread last year. We were having adventures in America.
I Just got a message from a Mudcatter who enjoyed it too.
Thank you John and Donuel. I'll go on another search. Take a look at the "Witches of Eastwick"
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 08:38 AM

A modern take off of the painting appears in the film Witches of Eastwick

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 05:49 AM

Well not quite a year, but it seemed like a good time to take another look at this one.

1. Still no info at standard art index sites on the "possibly identified" artist Rene Prinet. Same hits as before, with nothing too useful.

2. What appears to be the same picture turns up at Classic Ads as:

33256 1966 Uniroyal...Passionate Kiss at the Piano...ad $6.50

The page claims to have several thousand ads listed, so I'd suggest Ctl-F and search for "33256" as the easiest way to find this one. Unfortunately, the thumbnail does look like this ad cuts the top of the guy's head off, but it's listed as available for $6.50 (+ SH.)

The thumbnail here isn't good enough to read the text on the ad, but looks like:

Can a ... young ... falls easily in love ... find ... harmony ... carpet of Poly ... in her music room...

Note that nothing on this site says it's a poster. Some other ads displayed here appear to be scans or clippings from magazines, etc.

Back on the dolater list.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 06:13 PM

Thank you Ellenpoly. I have too. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:56 AM

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread!

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:44 AM

Just sent off copies of "Tabu Revisited" by True-love. Anyone else for a copy? Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:26 PM

Thank you SRS. The ad you found used the original ad in the background. The original was just the background picture. Tabu advertisments after the original used it somewhere within the new picture as a kind of running joke. Some of them were very clever. If you take a peek at the one Bill D was *grinning* about up earlier in the thread you'll see a modern version of the original picture using an artist and her (sigh!!) model. Note that this is the one that sent Bobert in search of a cold shower. This particular one doesn't show the original but it has elements of of in the composition. eg. the tipping piano stool.
There's another example of the original used as what jeri calls a "wee picture" in an ad for Tabu. That one can be seen further up in this thread too. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 12:29 PM

Ah, yes, I moved far enough away from the original post request that I was looking just for the ad, not the background. But if you ever need the ad, I found you a great copy of it!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:43 AM

Thanks for the continued dective work John and thanks SRS. It would seem that the ad we are after was well known by 1951. True-love first saw it, in America, in his mother's magazines. He thinks in some or all of the following: "Cosmopolitan", "Red Book" "Ladies' Home Journal", "McCall's". He thinks between 1946 and 1956. I remember it in Australia from about the late 1950s. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 03:51 AM

SRS -

In IE, the right click seems disabled, but if you left click on the image to select it, the little image toolbar pops up and you can "click the floppy" to save the pic from there. Unfortunately, the one really wanted is just the background to an additional front picture. That does likely indicate that the original ad is pre-1951, which is possibly quite helpful - although hasn't been yet.

I've found a few other Tabu posters for which the file names were all ##dana.jpg (## = some 2-digit number) but Google doesn't seem to pick up on nearby numbers, (except for one gal at a Spanish "marriage broker") and doesn't even find the ones I know about. Someone has a collection of these posters, since the filenames are "consistent." It's just a matter of figuring out who named the files ... maybe.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 09:07 PM

You can find the ad for sale at Ebay. For the time being, anyway, it is at this location. It comes up under a search under "Health and Beauty"
for Dana Tabu. This is a 1951 ad. They have disabled the right click ability with java script, so open the page in Netscape, go to the View menu, then choose Page Info, and over to the media tab. About 2/3 of way down the long list of gifs and such that go into the page layout, you'll see the image named 51danaspring.jpg . Use the "save as" function from that page and you can save it for yourself (personal use, of course!).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Take a peek here ladies
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 08:02 PM

Tried "piano kiss" at Google and look what I found! Not the one but WOW! Don't think we'll try it on the electric piano.
http://tallulahs.com/kisses.html

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 07:31 PM

Thanks for the message Helen. Your copy is in the email. Joy

Subject: RE: BS:Tabu ad revisited. Get your copy here
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 10:25 PM

Attention anyone who is interested. True-love has just dashed off a personal re-working of the Tabu ad. (See original comment at the top of this thread) Copies will be sent from my email address if you would like one. Just send me a personal message. Cheers Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 09:59 PM

John, We are very grateful that you have taken an interest in our quest. Thank you. Your opinions on the painting are most helpful.

On a lighter note. We will welcome all of you John, Jim, Jenny, Fred Bill and Helen and anyone else here on this thread, should any of you wish to visit and view THE TIN. We can offer Bobert cold showers if he feels he needs them. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 02:34 PM

Jim D -

For most purposes, hearsay is all we hear, and it's good enough.

Since I'm occasionally inclined to pass on things I think I know something about (and have been trying to overcome my tendency to blather on about things I don't know anything about) I find a need to keep things sorted into a variety of pigeon holes:

1. Things I'll probably never pass on, because they're BORING. I hardly ever make notes on these. (Religions, Politics, "What Physicists Think About" threads, etc.)

2. Things I'll never pass on because you guys are all idiots, and would just argue with me. I make a lot of notes on these, but usually don't keep them very long.(Religions, Politics, "What Physicists Think About" threads, etc.)

3. Things I just enjoy, and want to know more about. Being COAR, this is a constantly fluctuating category with several sub-divisions, the most persistent of which are my (our) "music collections" (currently 38,840 Title entries in index) and my art index (now up to about 45 inches of drawer space on 5x8 index cards, but I haven't counted them recently).

4. Things that are interesting enough that I might pass them on to friends. Because I'm approaching terminal CRS, notes are needed here but often get lost before I wish I could remember where I put them.

Several other less interesting categories.

What we've found on this painting puts it in a sub-note of category 3, because of subject matter; but I'd really prefer a little more authoritative info before I "card it" into my index. I don't usually make card entries until I have a confirmable artist credit and know where to find a decent copy of the work. I also usually have to like the work after I've seen a good image. (I've found it difficult to evaluate images that won't print passably at 13 x 19 inches or more. You frequently get a "totally wrong" impression of a work - and the artist - at smaller scale.)

I can also make a footnote in category 4, but wouldn't feel right about passing it on in most cases, simply because at present "confidence," the information I could pass on is as likely to be misleading as helpful. The only firm/reliable, and possibly helpful, info I could give would be that people can go look at Joybell's can.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JennyO
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 11:40 AM

It's quite clear of course, Joybell. You tapped into the universal mind :-)

see this thread

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 11:20 AM

JohnInKansas: You mean hearsay isn't good enough for Mudcat? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 10:43 AM

Well things are developing. First off, Jenny, we just found tins of Tabu talcum powder in our local chemist. (Hamilton Victoria Australia). The picture, in colour, is on the tins. There is a sticker on the tin that says,
"Collector's edition. Only $9.95 RRP inc GST. Value $44.00. REMOVE FOR GIFT GIVING."
A gold dress is what you need. Would you like a tin of powder?

John, Jim and Fred, Thank you for all the hard work.
So we may have a painting by an uncredited commercial artist based on the Prinet painting? An artist whose work was commissioned and bought by the Tabu company. The tins we just came across look like the work of a commercial artist rather than a photograph. The picture is in colour with the lady in gold and the man in black. Strange that the tins have just turned up. Did we do it somehow? Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 03:53 AM

Jim D -

"kiss" alone in Google will get the image, on about the third page or maybe sooner. The problem is that the only "citation" to the finished drawing is sort of hearsay on what amounts to a blog page, until some history on the artist and a "credible" link between the artist and the picture is found - or at least that's my sort of loose standard for thinking I know something about a painting. The Russian site looks like it has a credible citation, but of a "study" rather than a finished painting; and a decent translation, of at least some snatches, would be needed to be sure what it says. It does seem to be more of a "music oriented" than "art centered" site - but even that's a guess. The Google translater bombs out completely on the Cyrillic text, but might give some usable clues on a "transliterated" version. I just don't have the time or energy at the moment to investigate it.

JenniG -

I actually found quite a lot about Bessie Davison, although only a few of her paintings. Those few were quite nice, and her work seems to have been popular. Biographical sketches on her appear at several of the poster sites, implying that she's still marketable. While these sites can't always be trusted for accuracy, I didn't see any glaring discrepancies on Bessie's bio information.

A search on "Academie de la Grande Chaumiere" turned up an astonishing number of recognized (by me) artists who cite it as a place they've studied, but the majority that pop up are well after the period when Prinet would have been there. Google translates it as "The School in the Large Hut with a Thatched Roof," but that's about the extent of what I found out about what the Academie IS - other than that artists seem to think it makes their credentials more impressive. Informations for the few I recognized who might have been there in his time (including Lempicka and Oppenheim, for example) don't indicate with whom they studied at the Academie.

Despite not finding anything much that I was looking for, the search on the "Academie" did turn up some sites with information on a number of interesting "more modern" artists than those I've been looking at, so I guess once again Google has created more subjects for me to research than answers.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JennieG
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 02:48 AM

I remember the painting in magazine ads, it was probably considered quite racy in its time! All that unbridled passion......geez if a squirt of perfume is all it takes I must dig out the Tabu from the bottom drawer. The painting had a 1930's-1940's feel to me.
John - Bessie Davison was an Australian painter; born in Adelaide, she moved to Paris in her late 20's and spent the rest of her life there, dying in 1965. Last week I read a biography of her.

Cheers
JennieG off to find the bottle of Tabu.....and buy a red frock!

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 01:22 AM

I used the Google Images search and "piano kiss" (without quotes) as my search argument. The desired image shows up on the third page of the search results.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:51 PM

The picture identified as "The Kreutzer Sonata" at the "This Page" link by Jim Dixon doesn't come up by that title in any of my searches, but does come back as "The Kiss," which is the default filename for the image at that page. The site given appears to be the only one that refers to this picture (in the text) as "The Kreutzer Sonata."

Any search for "The Kiss" of course results only in Rodin, Klimt, and a whole bunch of wedding pictures.

I can't (without more effort than I'm willing to put into it) translate enough of the "Russian Site" to be sure, but it does appear to credit the image shown to Prinet. Enlarged as far as the available pixels permit, this image is done in very broad strokes, crudely (un)finished, and shows evidence of "adjustment" in body positions of the subjects. (The lady's hand on the piano, for example, shows a double image, probably an adjustment without complete overpainting of the original position.) It quite likely is a "Study for the K. S." if it is in fact done by Prinet. The only other Prinet painting I've found is a much more "finished" image - in typical 19th century realist fashion.

The Tabu ad, in the best image cited here, is almost "photographic," and has obviously been at least "touched up" to add the Tabu bottle that sits on the piano. My guess, based on present evidence, is that the Tabu ad was a photograph with actors posed "in the manner of the Kreutzer Sonata by Prinet," possibly with enough touchup to make it look "painterly." The picture in the ad is somewhat more "crisp" than the other example would indicate as the style of Prinet, although with the single sample found it's not possible to rule out the ad as a Prinet painting with the slight alteration of the Tabu bottle.

None of the search engines I consider reliable for work of this sort finds Prinet, but a couple of the less authoritative ones do report him as René Xavier Prinet, 1861 – 1946 (although one site did show him as born in 1540 and surviving until 17-something). A biography for one Bessie Davidson indicates: " In Paris, Davidson attended the Academie de la Grande Chaumiere, studying under Rene Prinet, and became influenced by his classical style." (It is not unusual for "impressively credentialed" artists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries to be omitted from art history resources. There were quite a few of them.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Helen
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:28 PM

Sorry, I forgot to tell you I was laughing when I said that:

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Helen
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:18 PM

All right Jim Dixon. Come clean! How the hell did you find out the name and the artist? Inquiring minds really really want to know!!

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 08:56 PM

You may be interested in The Kreutzer Sonata, the story by Tolstoy, which is probably what is intended, then. It's a great unfinished story with acute observations about music as an art, told my a misogynist madman.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 07:56 PM

This page identifies the painting as "The Kreutzer Sonata," by Rene Prinet, from 1898.

There is a very similar painting shown at this Russian site, which also identifies it as "The Kreutzer Sonata," but it doesn't quite match the one in the Tabu ad. Compare, for example, the position of the sheet music, and the woman's hair. Too bad I can't read the Russian (which might be more about Beethoven's 1805 sonata than the painting).

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 07:02 PM

Thank you everyone. Helen that small picture, just a bit bigger than the "wee one" and in colour, is the best we have so far. Thank you.
Interestingly True-love remembers it as being much less sedate than it actually is. He remembered the woman being almost in a state of collapse and draped over the piano stool. Of course he was young and virginal and probably keen not to be.

Bill D, I did find the artist one but thank you for sharing it. I'll bet she never goes back to painting bowls of fruit ever again!

Thanks everyone. We'll chase up a few leads and keep you posted. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 04:24 PM

Most likely the Tabu painting is a "commissioned" ad painting. While it's not a subject matter appropriate to my recent "researches" of great paintings. I don't remember seeing this painting in any of the 30,000+ paintings I've looked at in the last couple of years; -- but of course that doesn't mean it's not there.

The samples linked are too small for a good look at the painting, but I don't see the "style: of any of the artists mentioned thus far. It looks a little more like something one of the late 19th, early 20th century Russian artists might have done. An example would be Iliya Efimovich Repin, Russia, Realism, born 1844 - died 1930.

Apart from "style," Repin did portraits of a number of "musically associated" persons: Nikolay Rymsky-Korsakov, Alexander Glazunov, Mikhail Glinka, Anton Rubinstein, and Modest Musorgsky at this link. (Good images, if anyone's collecting composers.)

Another possibility might be one of the "Americans" from the turn of the century, in the style of Rush or Eakins, simply because the painting implies an illicit act without at least a "ripped bodice," as would be likely with any of the French or Italian artists (or Americans in Paris or Rome). Portraying "sexuality" was permissible only if the subject was "removed in time or space" even in the Art circles of 19th and early 20th century Europe, but as long as the subject "wasn't one of us" it was okay – in Europe – to show some nudity, or at least clothing in disarray. In the more represssive American market, the same "removal in context" was often risky if a work portrayed more than a suggestion (fully clothed) of persons doing something outside the bounds of "public moral values." The "Artist's Studio" and/or "The Rehearsal Room" worked for a number of artists to pass the censors, and/or the modesty of patrons, because immorality was "expected" for "those kinds of people" (Artists and Musicians?????).

Although it's debatable, my impression is that the Russian market showed repression similar to the American one.

John Singer Sargent, who was mentioned above, saw his career in Europe literally destroyed by one painting (Madame X) because it showed, suggestively(?) but actually rather modestly, a person known and quite prominent in the society in which the painting was presented. (That a major critic rather disliked Sargent probably had some effect as well.) To lesser extent, Goya's famous "Nude Maja" caused him some difficulty with obtaining commissions, at least for a time, because the subject was recognizable as "someone we know" by members of the contemporary society from whom he obtained his commissions.

For a major ad campaign, in the era when the Tabu ads first appeared with this image, it would have been normal practice to have an original painting created, so that the agency could have an "iron clad" copyright to prevent others from diluting the effect of their product's identification with the artwork. If a work by a "known artist" was to be used, it would have been common for the company to acquire the original, if possible, and have it safely locked away, before using it in any advertising. In either case, it's likely that only "the Tabu people" can positively identify the artist.

A direct inquiry, adressed to Tabu and/or to the ad agency currently representing them in your area might get a response. The worst they can do is throw your letter away (and send you advertising for the rest of your natural life). It is also possible that one of the major art dealers, or one of the many "poster shops," might be able to come up with at least an old ad poster reproduction. And there's always ebay…

It is an interesting painting, and I can promise to watch for it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 10:44 AM

looks more like the style and period of a Sargent, but wouldn't be. Much tamer things by Sargent caused uproar. Possibly an uncredited ad artist.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 11:16 PM

I see several Corots with nudes...but this is not an 'orgy'

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: freda underhill
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:56 PM

..Bobert.. now, as well as wanting to track down the Tabu image, i'm looking for another one! so far all the Corot's I've found have been landsacpes!

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:56 PM

I don't see any credit to the painter...and it 'looks' like a more modern painting to my eye. It may have been done especially for Tabu?

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:55 PM

Excuse me, I think I need a cold shower...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Helen
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:50 PM

Classic Fragrances Offer "Scents" Of History

A slightly larger picture of the painting

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:46 PM

try this one *smile*

found it from a discussion here using the Google search 'Tabu perfume painting'

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Helen
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:35 PM

I found an article which says that it was afake/mock-up of a Victorian painting:

The scent of a real woman
Julie Burchill
Saturday June 28, 2003
The Guardian

".........perfumes were called My Sin, Soir de Paris and, my childish favourite, Tabu, a deep, rich olfactory stew from Spain, whose ad featured a drawing of a girl boasting one neat horn, if you please, on her otherwise normal head. A bit too taboo, apparently, for she was replaced by a faux-Victorian painting of a brunette in a satin gown being crushed in a passionate embrace by a man holding a violin - shades of Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler."

I'll keep looking.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:24 PM

freda;

Check out Corot's "orgy' painting....

BTW, the model in the Tabu painting is one hottie. IMO...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: freda underhill
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:23 PM

the article below by Julie Burchill tips Tabu as a Spanish fragrance - so maybe we should be checking out some spanish artists... (good article, too!)
......................
The scent of a real woman; Julie Burchill; Saturday June 28, 2003
The Guardian

It's pretty fair to say that generally nothing nice comes in the post any more. If your agent's got good news, it's on the email, ditto smoochy-coochy-coo stuff from your boyfriend. Nice post tends to end at postcards - as I always think about pies, if the stuff inside's so nice, why do they want to cover it up? No, the first emotion on hearing the post thump on the mat is, as Dottie Parker said of the telephone's trill, "What fresh hell is this?" And on opening said post and reading for the nth time, You support Israel, Jew-lover, you will die! the jaded response is invariably, "Who are these clowns and when did the circus come to town?"

But there's one envelope, arriving once every couple of months, that still makes me squeal and feel as excited as back in the days when we used to do that godforsaken pre-teen thing when you'd send 12 postcards to people you didn't know and wait excitedly to get 300 back, all of them from complete pubescent strangers in faraway places with strange-sounding names such as Hertfordshire and Oldham.

When I see the legend "Rainbow Flowers by post from Guernsey" (PO Box 540, 3 Market Street, St Peter Port, Guernsey), all curlicued and classy-like, and the tasteful sepia art nouveau etching of the two Grecian nymphs peeping through the foliage down the lefthand side, I get that feeling again. I chuck away the leaflets advertising bouquets and choccies and stinking teddies, and go straight for the glossy Fragrance Direct page, headed with the teasing, here-comes-the-madeleine question Do You Remember... And there's no question mark, the cocksure cads, because of course I do.

When I was young, before "fragrances" were light, blameless and lifestyley, "perfume" was a rite of passage almost as scary and seductive as the idea of sex itself. In recent years, the fashion houses have tried to recreate those heady days with edgily named scents such as Dior Addict and Gucci Rush, but they still look, and smell, like what they are: the creations of squealing rag fags made with squawking fag hags in mind. Similarly, the heavy 1980s smells such as Dior Poison and YSL Opium tried too hard to be shocking, and they stunk into the bargain, like bad, bitter sex bottled; suitable only for drag queens and Norma Desmond. For two decades now, the high street has offered the choice between smelling like a citrus fruit on one hand and an old fruit on the other - with the ceaseless exception of Guérlain, whose perfumes, alongside parliamentary democracy and the pill, make a very good case for the 20th century being the best of all possible times.

When I was growing up, perfume was about enchantment, mystery and The Magic Hour: that time between daylight and darkness named by the great cinematographer Jack Cardiff as the slo-mo moment when everyone looks a little more beautiful. You didn't wear it in the daytime, and you didn't "spritz" or "splash"; it was far too precious. You put a tiny bit behind each ear and on each wrist and a dab on your throat. It was weird watching your mum do it at her dressing table on a Saturday evening, before she and your dad went to a dinner dance, as if she was this whole other person who had never worn a bri-nylon overall behind the cold meats counter or slapped your legs (ineffectually) or drunk too many snowballs one Christmas and mysteriously made a strawberry Rowntree's jelly in my gran's commode after we'd gone to bed, even though she never admitted to it. It set solid and gave my gran a terrible turn the next day; after that, she always warned me to keep an eye on Mum because, though she seemed nice, she'd do anything for thrills...

And so perfume back then was the bottled Me-Time for a generation of women, a whiff of permissible and safe sex, when sex was still dirty and dangerous - even as late as the early 1970s, intelligent, kind, non-religious, working-class women such as my mother referred to cohabiting couples as "living in sin", and she wasn't joking or laughing. This was a long time before we were living in a nonstop Carry On film full of FCUK posters, chocolate penises in every corner shop and lap-dancing clubs on every high street; perfumes were called My Sin, Soir de Paris and, my childish favourite, Tabu, a deep, rich olfactory stew from Spain, whose ad featured a drawing of a girl boasting one neat horn, if you please, on her otherwise normal head. A bit too taboo, apparently, for she was replaced by a faux-Victorian painting of a brunette in a satin gown being crushed in a passionate embrace by a man holding a violin - shades of Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler.

Then it was the 1970s, and everything started getting a bit... messy. Those discreet grande dames such as Je Reviens and Arpège took a back seat to the light, flighty likes of Tramp, Charlie and LouLou. And as for Tweed, well, it was never going to be safe in the brave new world that belonged to FCUK. Where once girls had longed to be women and use the powdery, rich perfumes that would identify them as such, now women were desperate to be girls, and began to douse themselves with the fragrance equivalents of alcopops to prove the point.

But thanks to Rainbow Flowers Fragrances, you can smell like a real grown-up lady again. Mind you, I still don't plan to act like a grown-up or want to be treated like one - just to smell like one. So, to sum up, act like a spoilt brat and smell like a proper lady, and you won't go far wrong in this life.

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:12 PM

Thanks freda. I've been there and a great time I had too! He was really into that sort of unbridled, romantic eroticism wasn't he? I love the one of the man looking up the girls dress while she plays on the swing. But alas! nowhere could I find the picture I'm seeking although there are lots very much like it. I think maybe the hints I found that it was Fragonard's painting might be just a red herring. The one we're after just looks too mid-nineteeth-century. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: freda underhill
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:03 PM

hi joybell

this is a link to images of most of Fragonard's opaintings, from the various galleries around the world - there is pashing galore to be viewed here!


http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/fragonard_jean-honore.html

best wishes

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 10:00 PM

Yes Jeri, that's the one! Thank you. It's the closest we've come to it. First time True-love's seen it in 50 years. Now all we need is the wee picture in colour of the original ad. It seems they must have stopped using that one by 1954.
Surely it can't be by Fragonard? The outfits are not of his time. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 09:52 PM

Is it the wee picture in the frame in this ad?

Subject: RE: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 09:39 PM

A google search shows a painting that can be copied but no artist or picture name. Good Luck.

Subject: BS: Name of painting? Tabu ad
From: Joybell
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 09:15 PM

True-love has always liked the painting used for the first advertisment for Tabu perfume. Most Mudcatters over 50 will remember it. It shows a violinist in a passionate embrace with a lady piano player. I've searched all over the net for it. Came up with a few references to it, and with the newer one of an artist being seduced by her naked male model. That's a good one too but the music-related one strikes a chord with us - so to speak. (It was a banjo and guitar for us but I digress!)
It may have been a painting by John Honore Fragonard 1732-1806 - or based on one of his. Hints of that possibility here and there.
I'd dearly love to find a copy. Even the name of the painting would be a good start.
Any ideas? Thanks Joy