Get Off The Stage

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 07:19 PM

For me the first question is always, "What song(s) do I know that these people can relate to?"

You hit the nail right on the head there, Rita. The whole point of singing (for me, anyway) is to communicate - I'm singing for people, to involve and please them. It doesn't really matter whether it's Matty Groves or The Wild Rover, You Are My Sunshine or Raining In My Heart. It's such a wonderful feeling when someone comes up to you and says "Thank you for singing XXY. It brings back happy memories of when my grandad/mother used to sing that to us kids."

But ... I don't have a set list, don't make CD's, don't usually perform for money. So I just share my repertoire according to the situation. There are plenty of places I can (and do) go where I can perform an unaccompanied ballad if I want to.
Are you a mind-reader, or what?

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Charmion
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 11:50 AM

I find that playing and singing have less to do with the audience (if any) than with the other people involved in making music with me. I was primarily a singer until about five years ago, and the things I liked best about singing were the physical sensation of producing the sound well, and the transcendent experience of singing well in a tight ensemble. The clapping and the occasional free drink were nice, too, but not nearly enough to compensate for the millions of hours I must have logged at choir practice over more than 40 years!

Having recently found a session that takes place at a convenient time and place, I am now finding the same experience in group playing. (Of course, it helps that I'm now nearly adequate on the mandolin.) It's a special pleasure to be a regular, to be greeted and included in the circle. It's particularly nice to find my repertoire beginning to trickle into the other session players. And when I'm packing up my mandolin to go home, there's sometimes an old guy or cute young thing bar who sidles up to say, "Do you think I could bring my harmonica/fiddle/spoons sometime?"

Seven years ago, I married a baritone and began learning a new skill, that of accompaniment. What an interesting journey! Where once I dragged an instrumentalist kicking and screaming in my wake, now I am the one struggling to read a singer's mind while wrestling to vary three chords over 15 verses. On good days, when we're on the money, that old transcendent thrill is back. On bad days, when my left hand is slow and my right hand can't find the beat and he's singing either sharp or flat but never quite *on* -- well, it's a good thing we have the discipline to keep at it until another good day rolls around!

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Ferrara
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 10:15 AM

Having started my "musical career" (no such thing...) by playing 20's and 30's oldies for my extended family to sing around the piano, I'm very comfortable with the kinds of situations you describe, Jerry. It's second nature for me to be aware of the musical tastes of my audience.

For me the first question is always, "What song(s) do I know that these people can relate to?" For my son's second grade class it was mostly folk songs like "The Fox," but I also played them "Mockingbird Hill" on my zither because I thought they'd like the pretty sound. They did. At an Irish-pub-style bed & breakfast in West Virginia I started with "The Man That Waters the Workers' Beer." Also very successful with that group of people! ... And since it was pretty informal I invited members of the audience to lead a song or two, which they did, and very well too. Not quite folk but nobody minded.

For groups of elderly people I choose differently, almost never would sing an unaccompanied ballad but they will love Stephen Foster etc. For a program of "International Music," also for a group of older people, I sang American trad songs set to old world tunes (example: "The mule he is a funny sight, he's made of ears and dynamite...." to the tune of O Tannenbaum) as well as songs in various languages. For a group of Mormon workers at the Mormon Temple here, I sang old songs of the American West.

But ... I don't have a set list, don't make CD's, don't usually perform for money. So I just share my repertoire according to the situation. There are plenty of places I can (and do) go where I can perform an unaccompanied ballad if I want to.

Well this is a thread that I really relate to, good question, Jerry.

Rita F

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 02:33 AM

A great line there Jerry about "stepping out of our comfort zone". To a large extent, it is by playing those gigs that you learn the basic laws of performing. There are things which work everywhere and things which don't work anywhere. The rest is about finding out how far you can go - or not go - in the place you are playing.
I always bear in mind, "Does the audience (or often just the people present) want me there?" If you are playing in restaurants or at business functions etc, it is very likely that a substantial number of people present will find you a mere irritation. That can happen in pubs too. They expect you to shut up so that they can talk.
Needless to say, I avoid those gigs. I also dislike gigs at which the audience feels it should write the set list. (I also intensely dislike seeing performers, who try only to pander to their audience).
A lot of gigs came somewhere between the two extremes though. A few weeks ago, I took a gig in an Irish pub in Dortmund at short notice, filling in for a friend. Having not played any for about a decade, I had completely forgotten most of the material, set order and other tricks, which I used to use. I spent most of the evening looking for the main chance to get a couple of tables singing. It finally came in the last half hour. It was not with a crowd pleaser at all. A few ears pricked up at my parody (in German) of John Denver's "Country Roads", and it all got started. I got them singing "Wimoweh" in different parts - a completely off the wall idea, which worked. I then finished the evening with half an hour of originals in English and German and the comedy really rocked.
Over the years, it has been gigs like that one, which taught me how to time and sustain an attempt at getting people's attention. I am sure they went home forgetting all the fluff, which preceded the final half hour.
It is frustrating to go home with the feeling that you could have given them more. I have gradually learned to simply try and give the audience as much as they will accept. I go as far as I can, of course, but I can't change them.

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 02:22 AM

its a trade off. life isn't perfect - unless you're very successful in the music business, you don't get to play the music you want to for a living.

And if you feel an open mic situation isn't giving you the chance to develop what you do - then you must learn enough of more popular music styles, until you know enough to work commercially. One thing is quite certain - there is always demand for live music and performance, but times and fashions change. look how many folksingers spend their lives lamenting that the folk scene ain't what it was.

but if you are a performer, and that is something you locate within you own personality - then you have the ability and desire to enterain other people.

I promise you, almost unwillingly - when you start, or rather when you have mastered another style - you will find that you make discoveries about your own abilities and strengths as a performer, and moreover discoveries about the nature of music.

In fact in a while, you end up feeling sort of sorry for people who have been successful from day one in the music business. they don't develop and learn much. usually they stay churning out the same old rubbish - hardly looking at the ever dimishing audience - people they never gave much thought to, in the first place. they may make their living a bit easier than you - but your ability to roll with the punches gives you a more grounded existence and hell! its only money.

one thing I do know is that if you don't perform regularly in front of audiences - you lose the edge - that sparkle of confidence that lets the audience feel secure.

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 05:39 PM

Yeah, Peace: I think there is a great deal to be learned (and received) stepping out of our "comfort zone" as a performer and playing to an audience unfamiliar with our music. It sounds like you understood and respected your audience, and when that is the case, the individual song almost becomes unimportant. When my wife and I do a monthly program at a nursing home, sometimes I think that just holding someone's hand is at least as important as singing them a song. They definitely would relate to I Want To Hold Your Hand.
Touching is so very important for them. The only time they're touched may be when their bed linen is changed or they're helped into their wheelchair. Holding hands is a sign of affection, and it is very different.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: breezy
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 02:36 PM

the answer is to take with you someone who will connect with your audience in case you cant!!!

I dont do 'When your Smiling' and such standards, its not my style but my mate can, then he leads into fresh original material, before doing 'White Christmas' and 'Chestnuts roasting '

Good old Chris Flegg, trouble is, he 's at Herga tomorrow and I've a gig with a womens club!!


I'm dreaming of a

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 02:18 PM

In many ways I think a good song makes its own friends. And good singers/interpreters gain the respect of any audience. I recall doing a slower version of "I Want to Hold Your Hand" for an older crowd--they were past retirement. They seemed to enjoy it as much as "A Bicycle Built For Two" done as a sing along. I don't know if that's an answer, Jerry. Lemme know.

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 01:23 PM

Awright, Russ messed me up by posting a second message. Now you have to go back three posts. Or if you're reading this post, it's four posts back.

Nobody said life would be easy.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 01:21 PM

Wise observation, Russ. And I appreciate all the other responses. Yes, there are times when a musician is hired for "background music." For people who came for a totally different reason, "background music," can't be far enough in the background. It's just an irritating distraction to talk over. But, on the rare occasion when I've knowingly put myself in that situation, I try to sing to the one or two people who are listening. It's that, or go nuts.

I suspect that most Catters came to folk music through records or performances on a stage. That's taking a front porch, living room, barn dance music and making it commercial entertainment. (Or at the time, not very commerical entertainment.) That's fine, but folk music, and in my opinion all music should live off the stage, off recordings and even out of the inner circle of dedicated listeners.
Russ's last statement (c'mon, you can read one post up, and read the whole post if you haven't) says it all. You CAN connect with people who have never heard your kind of music, whether it's folk, rock, classical, jazz or reggae. Even punk. (Rap is a stretch of my imagination.) In the process of seeking that connection, you can see the music (and yourself) in a refreshingly new light.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: thespionage
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 01:14 PM

Correction: "Most people of ages 17-21 associate folk music with parents or children's music."

Russ

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: thespionage
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 01:12 PM

On my own or with a group or the folk duo, Russ & Eli, I must play different music for people who were alive in the 60s (or may as well have been) than with my peers of college age.Most people of 17-21 associate music with parents or with children's music. For people who think that Woody Guthrie was just another Iriving Berlin (Woody is probably rolling over on the Coney Island shore), I play for them the verses of "This Land Is Your Land" that schools rarely do and people like Arlo Guthrie and Pete Seeger nearly always do.

The content of the songs has to be different with people who "weren't there" when folk music was more common and popular. Songs written about experiences they have had are more accessible, like when I adapted "What Shall We Do with a Drunken Sailor" to be about what happens backstage before a play premiers; few people my age have ever sailed 'round Cape Horn bound for South Australia.

There's a moral here: anyone can enjoy folk music, you just have figure out which songs are right to play, perhaps writing some tailored to a specific audience.

Russ

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: saulgoldie
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 12:26 PM

It's funny that you should start this thread now. I have been mulling in my mind just who my audience is and what are the circumstances.

I am not a pro. I don't write my own songs. I can't (or won't) do many of the popular requested songs ("play 'Freebird!' Wooooo!"). But I HAVE accumulated a fair number of "interesting" songs (and SOME of the classics, too) from my listening and prepared many of them for performance.

I used to play at retirement homes on ocassion. But I suspect that they would have rather had the classics and favorites rather than my carefully chosen jewels. And I stopped playing at all for awhile, so I stopped the gigs, too.

I have played a few times at family gatherings. But family being family, I don't know if they are just being polite and tolerant, or honest in their appreciation.

I suppose I could frequent the open mics a little more aggressively. But there you usually only get maybe 15 minutes at the most, and often only one song. I have HOURS of material, and vignettes, too.

Perhaps I have but an audience of one, which has value, I know. But I'd like to share with more people and not feel like I am forcing myself on them.

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 11:21 AM

We go out Mob handed on canal trips every year - Two or three Boat Loads of singers and musicians , who's only common ground is folk Music (ALL styles) and Canals . In the evenings we like to moor close to a pub where we can sing , mainly for our own pleasure , but NOT to the exclusion of any local patrons . It is always a pleasant surprise when we are asked "Are you a Choir?" as , though several of us DO go to the same club , we dont perform as a group . I feel that what we are actually doing is 'Missionary' work for Folk Music in general .

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 11:05 AM

Years ago, my son the a diehard Rapper, went on a school trip to the South Street Seaport. Anything that took him out of the classroom was welcome. I was shocked when he came home talking on and on about a woman who taught them some sea chanties. The chanties were fun but the song that made the biggest impression was The Golden Vanity. "Mom, the captain let him die and he was my age..."

I played a variety of recordings of it for him. For once I had his musical respect. "You KNOW that song? How come you never sang it for me?"

The lady, who I suspect was one of the Johnson Girls, had found a topic he could relate to. The unfairness of life is an ongoing theme to a teenage boy.

Lawrence never took up folk music but when away from his friends he sometimes even sings along.

So I guess my observation is to gear your music to your audience. Don't sing at them or for them. Draw them in.

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: open mike
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 10:44 AM

our folk music society has been finding dwindling audiences
at the performances we present and promote. we often wonder why.
one of our member's children said we should perform in a place
where they can drink and dance. or something to that effect...
as far as Dick Clark's American Bandstand goes i guess most of
our folk music would not get a high rating////
("i give it a 98, you can dance to it...")
We usually choose music with a message.
We will continue bringing performers to town,
in hopes that our efforts are appreciated.

your thread title is not likely to reveal the
essence of this discussion.

Subject: RE: Get Off The Stage
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 10:40 AM

If we're in a situation where the music is a secondary reason to be at an event we get either indifference because people are there with a different agenda. Or, when they listen, we get "What kind of music is that?" Sometimes we've gotten long time fans playing those sorts of gigs. Margaret and I did Rendezvous (late eighteenth/early nineteenth century period gig)when the weather was really chilly (mid 40's with high winds). We sang a lot of a capella stuff because it was too cold to play guitar well. We offered some high school kids a chance to get out of the wind underneath the awning of the stage we were on. We sang them a couple old ballads, they wound up buying a recording and came back this year asking for "Death of Young Andrew."

Their reason for liking what we do, is probably entirely different than our reason for doing it.

Subject: Get Off The Stage
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 09:56 AM

Yesterday morning, my gospel group had it's first practice with a man who may well be our new tenor, replacing Derrick who was with us for 8 years and recently moved to Florida. (I have to learn to type shorter sentences.) I was trying to explain to Doug (the new man) why we sing. Our reasons for singing are clearly different in some ways than those for singing folk music, or rock or reggae. But, there are some common reasons for singing. In my group, the question always comes down to who you're singing for, and I think that's true for all of us singers and musicians. Most of us sing for several people. We sing for ourselves because we enjoy singing. We also sing for others because we feed off their praise. Hopefully, we also sing for others because we recognize that our ability to sing or play an instrument is a gift to be shared. For those of us who perform, the real answer to why we sing comes when we get off the stage. It also comes when we sing for people who don't realize how cool we really are.

In talking to Doug about why we sing, and who we are singing for, I realized that all the things that we so admire in other singers often mean very little when we step outside of our little insular circle of people of like tastes. Claude Jeter sang lead for the Swan Silvertones and to my taste he is perfhaps the greatest singer of black gospel music. But when you're singing to a woman who's husband died recently and who's just gone blind, she probably doesn't know Claude Jeter from Derrick Jeter. When a musician sings on stage, or with other people who have the same appreciation for their style of music, there is a common musical language. When you take your music into a group of people who don't know Doc Watson from Doc Ock, then you see the music in a whole new way.

I could go on and on, as I tend to do, but I'd like to hear some observations and experiences about taking your music to an audience that doesn't even know what folk music is.

Gotta run..

I'll be reading..

Jerry