BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 May 06 - 06:52 AM

of course you can Leadfingers, for this is cyberland and I am a magic fairy and I can grant all your wishes!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 May 06 - 06:48 AM

I was wondering wether I would qualify as an Iconoclst ! Then I realised that though very few of the songs are traditional , most of the jokes ARE !!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:12 PM

how DO you pronounce *, as distinct from 'asterisk

It's done with a hand flourish, a bit like Vanna White pointing to a letter.

I went and had a look in the "History of England" thread. (Haven't had time yet to check out the others you mentioned.) On the England thread, it doesn't look to me like they are really iconoclasts, though. They don't seem to be image destroying so much as image explaining.

We need to have a word for that. I can think of several people to use it on (Donald Rumsfeld, for instance). What is the greek word for "spin"?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 02:52 PM

Carol - definitely knocker-downers of icons in the larger world.

I'd call them iconoclasts because they don't go with the consensus, they have their own views irrespective of supposed normal thinking, which is not usually thinking anyway but just not wanting to stand out or wanting to belong. Thinking is,as has been pointed out before, actually quite difficult.

Iconoclasts are happy to criticise mainstream society's idols - money, B.Pitt, Hollywood, the Queen, language, shopping, celebrity, multinationals, blaming, rational man - you know, nothing controversial.


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:05 AM

Now we're getting down to business. Thanks for making your nominations, autolycus.

I haven't figured out yet if I intend "Mudcat Iconoclast" to mean someone who knocks down Mudcat Icons, or someone in the Mudcat who knocks down icons of the larger world. Or to both. I guess we could have all of the above.

Autolycus, in which category (or categories) would you put your nominees? And why?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 09:56 AM

I'd nominate Bill Hicks as an icnoclast - he refused to sell out, as I understand it.

On the other hand, I thought the thread title (TT?) referred to Mudcat posters - which of them is iconoclastic?

I'd suggest *daylia* (how DO you pronounce *, as distinct from 'asterisk'?), and most of the contriburors to the History of Britain part 1 and The three-minute egg and the dull and very unimaginative thread er , threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 07:44 AM

Mr Biggun, I couldn't agree more. If only I could put it so clearly.....

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 07:29 AM

"to attempt to define deconstruction is to defy another of its main priciples - which is to deny that final or true definitions are possible, because even the most plausible candidates will always invite a further defining".

Tw o of a deconstructionists' main points are that the relationship between language and reality is not secure but culturally-dependant, and that the great narratives contained in the major philosophies, (for example the one about the triumph of science) are in decline, and we whould be sceptical about them.

(taken from Postmodernism. A Very Short Introduction by Christopher Small (Professor of English at Oxford)


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 02:46 AM

Well I think it all sounds very exciting and refreshing. Let's smash up a few ikons and get high on destroying a few bits and pieces. Then we'd all feel better.

WE'd get it off our chests. The trouble with iconoclasm , it doesn't last.

All these icons that get on my tits....the BBC, The Conservative Party, English traditional folksongs that don't go any further back than some arsehole grubbing about in a museum, Hollywood blockbusters, the royal family .......

you can give them all a good kick in the cobblers, but they'll still be grinning down at you from behind the altar tomorrow.

As that great iconoclast Oliver Cromwell once said: we can beat the king a thousand times, but he'll still be the king....

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 07:22 AM

The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns, as it were, instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish squirting out ink.

George Orwell

An iconoclast (and a menber in spirit)?

Well his Big Brother is here.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,Hank the R
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 07:10 AM

My mothers no a millionaire

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 07:10 AM

wot?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,Lord
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 07:09 AM

Ma maws a millyonaire

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:11 PM

The talking points page from the deconstruction definition is as contentious any argument as any that gets going over here at Mudcat, but with longer words and citations all around. Maybe we should send our own BillD to go edit that page. ;->

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 02:01 PM

seconded! Very funny ANT astute! (or maybe asstoot)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 12:32 PM

Mted, very funny!

The Bush Wazee, While the country takes it up the wazoo!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 12:15 PM

It is better for a party to be in opposition and explaining how they would make things better - than it is for them to be in power and having to find excuses for why things are not.

Prentice Worthrope-Manly

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 11:39 AM

Molotov Cocteau? Good one, WLD.

As for the Republican rallys, Jack, how about "The Bush Wazee?" And Martin, what is that about the pot and the kettle?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 07:56 AM

And as "Patriotic Twang" for county fairs and Republican rallys.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:42 AM

great name for a band ... the Iconoclastic Destructionists

Sid Kropotkin (lead guitar and vocals) Molotov Cocteau (bass) and 'Dynamite Boy' Mr. X.Plosion (drums)

(also available as Johnny 'Angel' Cake and the Hostess Trolleys for weddings, barmitzvahs and gigs in retirement homes.)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:27 AM

Too intelligent for some of our more quadraletteral contributors I see!
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:44 PM

No, it didn't. It was just stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 08:50 PM

LOL

Deconstructionism killed the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 06:37 PM

Ok. I understand it all now.

MaineDog, I have no simple and formalizable response to your question.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 06:27 PM

No handshakes, CarolC, they are completely focussed on "text"--

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 06:14 PM

LOL, M.Ted.

I wonder if they have a secret handshake.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 06:09 PM

If you want to know what "deconstructionism" is, don't look it up. The deconstructionists don't want it defined, and no one else understands it--If you don't believe me, check out this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deconstruction

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:54 PM

I wouldn't know, MaineDog (re: deconstructionist). I had to go look it up myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: MaineDog
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:44 PM

An icon for an eyecon!?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:09 PM

That's what you call a non sequitur!
G

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:07 PM

So, let;'s get back to the bombing in Israel that just killed a bunch of Jews by some of Allah's icons.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: MaineDog
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 05:04 PM

Well, my limited view of a deconstructionist was one who twists an idea, argument or discussion, or even the language itself, in on itself, in such a way as to destroy any meaning, just as a mind game. Sounds familiar around here.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:05 PM

Notie that he had one son who is a firefighter....

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:02 PM

Well, that's an amusing biography. Pity he never had a chance at the Oval Office, isn't it? ;-P

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 02:41 PM

It appears he was trying to cut a ribbon with a welder's torch at a campaign event. Swimming in the Cuyahoga would have been funnier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Perk

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 01:24 PM

What????????????? How many are too many???????????????????????????????????????????????   

And why did he set his hair on fire??????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 12:09 PM

about exclamation points: It IS possible to use more than your allotted share!!!!!!!!!
I do sometimes, but then since no one uses these ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ much, I just grab a handful and turn them upside down.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:41 AM

Tony doesn't seem to be an "icon" of the ideal Labour Party Leader.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:35 AM

The Labour Party appear to have made the same mistake with Tony 'Yes George' Blair.
That whirring sound you may be able to hear, is the sound of Keir Hardie rotating in his grave!
G..

Keir Hardie For the uninitiated.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:33 AM

Here's the other thing I want to know... is it possible to have too many exclamation points?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:30 AM

First an iconoclast, then an icon. Its a common pattern in politics. Everyone runs against the status quo, then they BECOME the status quo.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:21 AM

Thatcher was an iconoclast? Was she also an icon?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 11:19 AM

Yes Shambles, she was an unholdy terror. A radical ideolog iconclastically lambasting the status quo.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:59 AM

I am reminded of Margaret Thatcher who was chosen as leader by our *unholders* of the status quo - the Conservative Party.

She was their darling but it took the old Tory 'grandees' a long time to realise that far from a being a conservative - they had on their hands a flaming radical who threatened to change everything - which wasn't the deal or what they wanted at all...........

The party has yet to recover from this mistake......

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:46 AM

Indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:38 AM

The refusal to take oneself seriously is what marks out the humoured from the ill humoured surely?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:16 AM

Well you certainly have an obligation to resist those who would idolize yout idolitry thus raising you on the ironic pedestal of iconoclastic iconism.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John Hardly
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:13 AM

yes and no.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:12 AM

So here's what I want to know about iconoclasts and icons.

If you're an iconoclast and you become an icon, don't you have an obligation (if you want to keep your street cred as an iconoclast) to attack yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:04 AM

Funny thread (love the burning hair and river bit).

I hadn't registered much about Jane Jacobs and I didn't hear the news story on the radio (it's pledge drive week, so I've been over on the classical station more). I did a search and found a very lengthy interview with her from 2001 here. Careful if you decide to print it--the second section is 24 pages. Very interesting woman, and very timely discussion.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 09:57 AM

I guess you could be an iconoclastic deconstructionist. You could even be an antidisestablishmentarianist deconstructionist. But if you live in England, you probably can't be an antidisestablishmentarianistic iconoclastic deconstructionist.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 09:37 AM

Don't we have enough trouble at Mudcat without bringing deconstructionism into it?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 07:35 AM

From deconstructionist.com...


Words refer to Words
They wrestle endlessly with each other in an infinite dance.
Yet we seek a center on which to rest.
A stable presence.
A final place where all is clear and movement is no more.
A final death.
But the resting point is a wishful fantasy.
The imaginary centers we've constructed,
the pockets of solidity in the pulsing membranes of the void,
must be dissolved, exposed to friction,
invited to dance.

This is Deconstruction.
Not a theory, not an idea,
but a practice.
To transcend the center
And dance within and beyond the words
(and the myriad structures which the words precede)
We must become
Deconstructionists.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 04:08 AM

Nah he's more like an antidisestablimentarian.
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:38 PM

A Deconstructionist would be along the lines of a Postmodernist. Does that help you at all? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: bobad
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:49 PM

Or a home wrecker.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:48 PM

According to my sources, you have to be a literary critic to be a deconstructionist.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:46 PM

Oohhh, good one, MaineDog! I have to go look that up now.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: MaineDog
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:37 PM

What's the difference between an iconoclast and a deconstructionist?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:26 PM

Why would he set his hair on fire?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:25 PM

Denny wasn't the Cleveland mayor who set his hair on fire. That was Ralph Perk.

Whew! That's a relief!

Was he in the Cuyahoga River when it happened?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:23 PM

Denny wasn't the Cleveland mayor who set his hair on fire. That was Ralph Perk.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:21 PM

Yes, she sounds like a very interesting person.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: bobad
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:21 PM

She dedicated a lot of her life trying to improve cities and make them more livable for the common person.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:19 PM

Learn more about her CarolC ... it will be worth it.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:18 PM

I heard about Jane Jacobs for the first time today, on the radio.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:17 PM

I heard Bobad ... that's what prompted me in making the post ... people like her must live on regardless ... there certainly isn't enough of her kind ... a real, true iconoclast.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:15 PM

So he's not a talk show host?

Politicians, talk show hosts... who can tell the difference?

About Howard Stern though, he's definitely a part of the establishment now.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: bobad
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:12 PM

Jane Jacobs passed away this morning sIx.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:59 PM

A true iconoclast, without a doubt ... if not one outstanding human being ... Jane Jacobs.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:55 PM

Ah, yes....okay. So he's not a talk show host? Okay.

How about Howard Stern? He's an iconoclast extraordinaire, but not a Mudcat inconoclast, of course. He's also an icon to some seriously sick people. ;-D

It is true that most great inconoclasts soon become icons, as pointed out by M.Ted. They ring out the old, they ring in the new.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:40 PM

I rest my case. If Kucinich was an icon, Little Hawk would know about him. He knows all the icons.

LH, Dennis Kucinich is an iconoclastic congressman from Ohio. Here's his website...

http://kucinich.house.gov/

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:12 PM

He went up in flames years ago, when he was Cleveland's "Boy Mayor"--I forget the details, but you don't need details when you're dealing with icons--don't for get moresthebetter--there's one for eleven of something, too, but I always forget what it is--

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 09:06 PM

Who is this Dennis Kucinich character you are all going on about? Is he some TV personality? Yes...I KNOW I can look it up on Google, but I thought I'd rather astound you all by letting you know that I don't know a thing about him. ;-) I somehow missed another vital piece of Americana. Or is he from the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 07:38 PM

How? Did Kucinich go up in flames? I hadn't heard that on the news................Or is it just that he smells, even now.

Actually Ted, you have a point......It may not be a good point, but it is a point nonetheless. BTW, I need to ask.....After nonetheless is there onethesame and twothemore?

Spaw.....threethefuckedup

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:49 PM

Like the Cuyahoga River, Dennis Kucinich represents something fundaamentally American--

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:18 PM

I remember Denny from when I lived in Ohio years and years ago. I thought he was a twit, but not so much so as Geraldo Rivera. Dennis never chased a pimp down the streets of Akron.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:53 PM

Today's iconclasts are tomorrow's icons, and it's been like that since Zarathustra.

Oh really? So you think Dennis Kucinich will be an icon some day?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:50 PM

Dylan was not an "establishment" musician--his "singer/songwriter" routine literally destroyed the hold that the "Tin Pan Alley" songwriters had on the music industry. He reshaped the music industry, which is why all the big guys want to shake his hand.

Today's iconclasts are tomorrow's icons, and it's been like that since Zarathustra.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:40 PM

Thomas of Claudiopolis and the Paulicians. (No, it's not a group.)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST,JD
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 01:28 PM

After having their posts critical of the "Mudcat Icon" list deleted by the "Mudelfs" for not only pointing out that the thread had descended into a list of "My Favorite Mudcatter" posts, but that such threads functioned as a very immature way to maintain the Mudcat power hierarchy (Max, Joe, Clones, and their "in group" sycophants), I nominate the Guest who was censored in the Mudcat Beauty Contest thread last night.

I also agree that one must not be an icon before being an iconoclast. There are many iconoclasts who were never icons first.

Shane McGowan, for instance.

I would also make some minor distinctions. Icons generally are establishment types. Certainly Dylan and the other musicians mentioned here would qualify as establishment musicians, even though some of them cultivated personas as rebels.

At the end of the day, when you are having private chats with presidents and popes, ya ain't much of an iconoclast.

In my opinion only, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:41 AM

Allan C. ... I've heard Marlon Brando has also posted here ... as there has been quite a few 'ghosts guests' postings.

"Unhold the traditional ideas on which our forum was founded" ... that certainly would account for just about everyone.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 11:23 AM

good eye, Carol...I missed Roger's Freudian slip, but I sure enjoyed it once you pointed it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 10:11 AM

Yeah, like that, Guest, 25 Apr 06 - 06:17 AM!

But I like The Shambles' new word, "unhold". "Unhold the traditional ideas on which our forum was founded". Indeed.

Nobody wants to talk about Dennis Kucinich? Ah well. But I don't think he's an icon. So I think you can be an iconoclast without being an icon.

Nice to see you here in my thread, Allan.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:17 AM

CarolC do you mean (in post 25 Apr 12.01) like Pasta and anti-pasta?.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Allan C.
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:13 AM

If memory serves, Rick Fielding once told us that Bob Dylan did, indeed, post to the Mudcat from time to time. He hinted that there were other icons who posted here as well; but that he was sworn to secrecy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 06:06 AM

Subject: RE: SURVEY: How many post to Mudcat ONLY?
From: John 'Giok' MacKenzie - PM
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 05:46 AM

What a boring life some people must lead!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:50 AM

Guest is right though Roger, you now seem to be working on the principle of, 'if I can't have things my way I will spoil other peoples posts'.
You intrude here without a valid comment, and with only the purpose of pushing your own agenda, mixed with a lot of self-aggrandisement. I know you enjoy the attention Roger in spite of your protestations to the contrary, and this is just the spoilt child drawing attention to himself.
Your non sequiturs should be deleted, as they are only an attempt to disrupt other peoples enjoyment.
It's just a Roger Gall way of saying ME ME ME ME ME ME!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:49 AM

Iconoclast =

Someone who tries to destroy traditional ideas or institutions

while there is only one Shambles - a true Mudcat iconoclast

No I have to take issue with that John.

I try to unhold the traditional ideas on which our forum was founded - in the face of many attempts to change and impose yet further restrictions by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team who now proposes to destroy these traditional ideas.

It is quite wrong to think that a view posted that may not be the same as one expressed by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - should be seen as an anti - Mudcat post.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:38 AM

The anonymous ones who now feel qualified to impose their judgement upon the rest of their fellow posters.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John O'L
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 05:23 AM

One could say the same about GUEST, but one won't, because one assumes there are many, while there is only one Shambles - a true Mudcat iconoclast

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 04:21 AM

There just isn't a thread of any variety that is safe from the Shambles spreading poison.
Surely this along with all other irrelevant thread invasions, along with S himself, should be deleted?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:17 AM

The Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: John O'L
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 02:05 AM

What about anti-icons? Like um oh I dunno, Billy Bragg?

- "If you got a blacklist, I wanna be on it..."

Is he a member?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:31 AM

BTW, I think Dennis Kucinich has been posting as an anonymous Guest, so I declare him a Mudcat Iconoclast.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:29 AM

LOL, Severn.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:29 AM

He was ... at one time ...

...damn

Well, how about Dennis Kucinich then?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasterers?
From: Severn
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:22 AM

In the Labor Song Movement, do they have Si Kahn-oclasts?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:19 AM

He was ... at one time ... 'On the Waterfront'put him up there as an icon ... to the people on of his island kingdom he was an icon. To me he was an icon ... he lived his own life, unaffected by outside influences.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:15 AM

Marlon Brando. Now there's an iconoclast. He's not an icon, too, is he?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:12 AM

"disruption in the fabric of the space/time continuum"

That defines Bob ... but are you sure he isn't posting as a Guest? If he was, I thought that was Marlon Brando.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:09 AM

Jeeeez .... Bob Dylan's a member of the Mudcat?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:09 AM

No, you can, Carol. Bob Dylan, for example, has been both an icon and an iconoclast for most (if not all) of his career.

Like I said... disruption in the fabric of the space/time continuum.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:06 AM

Matter of fact, anyone who is a really effective iconoclast is well on the way to becoming an icon. Ironic, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: What are Mudcat Iconoclast Distinctions?
From: Severn
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:03 AM

Those of us who actually make the Mudcat Icon Tina Memorial Graduating Clast Of '06, do we get clast rings?

Those of us who don't, do we merely get outclast?

If I'm flying to England in May as part of the Mudcat Econo-Class, do I get My own copycat thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:03 AM

No, you can, Carol. Bob Dylan, for example, has been both an icon and an iconoclast for most (if not all) of his career.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:01 AM

Rapaire... I don't think you can be both an icon and an iconoclast. I think that would create a disruption in the fabric of the space/time continuum or something. Like matter and anti-matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Severn
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:50 PM

And maybe the Ex-Cons.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:48 PM

Same as the icons.

Subject: BS: Who are the Mudcat Iconoclasts?
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:47 PM

My very first copycat thread!

So ok, who are they?